The theories of Bond films! How did mi6 arrange the "killing" of Bond in YOLT?

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  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,167
    It's actually not "OO7", it's "LOO" as an attempt to associate the tarot style cards with a game brand (Loo). So it's Loo as with the old card game (loo, Webster's definition follows) in which the winner of each trick or a majority of tricks takes a portion of the pool (of money) while losing players are obligated to contribute to the next pool.

    Failed attempt since loo in the Carribean and Mexico and Central and South America and elsewhere is better known as a toilet or bathroom. Rather than associated with winning.

  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,628
    Wow @j_w_pepper we may need a few more theories here. You brought up some interesting points.

    @RichardTheBruce ever play the game Balderdash? Methinks you would rule at it. LOL!
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,898
    Presumably, Bond returns to the San Moniquan hotel's gift shop to buy the tarot cards, requesting dozens of decks just to prepare the manipulative Lovers trick.

    In the film, the card brand is not 007, but O.O.7. - 'Oracle Of Seven'.

    The number 7 is considered divine or mystical, and symbolizes completeness, inner wisdom, and spiritual awakening.
    31b808_e22785ebdd9242a8ba88decfe746b9f6~mv2_d_1417_1915_s_2.jpg
  • Posts: 6,082
    You cn say it was in the cards. Or rather, on the cards.

    Okay, I'm out now.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,304
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    And even more interesting: How did Bond get the same type of cards, all showing the "lovers" on their face? Even supposing there is a reasonable explanation for Solitaire having her set of cards, she could have brought it from NYC. But Bond? After he first saw her cards, where the hell should he have been able to obtain his on that island?

    Are Mr Big and his team not based in San Monique and kind of more visiting NYC?
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,628
    Good stuff folks. I loved some of the creative thoughts to this little Easter egg!

    Okay lets jump back 10 years to SP. A film that has it's fans and detractors.

    This comes to us from @SIS_HQ as one they would like to see some theories for:

    Why Bond didn't lose his memory after the brain torture surgery Blofeld done on him in SP?

    Blofeld is being surgical with his needles and drills. He tells Swann that with the right spot and depth he can eliminate the memories that Bond has. He proceeds to drill in that spot and asks Swann if "those blue eyes still remember you". Which seems to indicate he did in fact wipe out some of Bond's memories and yet...Bond recognizes Swann. Watch for a refresher!



    What are the theories of why Bond didn't get this memory erased? Was Blofeld bluffing? Did he not drill in the right place? What are your theories as to why Bond was unaffected by the drilling?
  • edited March 3 Posts: 15,421
    Blofeld is not a brain surgeon. He was overconfident in his skills.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,304
    Yeah all I can think of is that Blofeld just got it wrong, but it's really unsatisfying when you've been told the stakes in a tension scene and they just turn out to have been incorrect: it's cheating the audience. Like if the Goldeneye device had gone off over Europe but it just turned out to have one of those flags inside with 'bang' written on it.

    I guess because he's James Bond and slightly indestructible? Or maybe it actually worked and from here on in a really confused Bond is just bluffing his way his through his life without letting on that he has no idea who anyone is.

    Or I guess more seriously: there are people who do have face blindness or 'prosopagnosia' which means they have trouble recognising faces. I think it varies in strength and people who have it can live normal lives I think: perhaps Bond has that from then on but it doesn't affect him too much.
  • edited March 3 Posts: 4,739
    I'm not sure how confident even Blofeld was about it working (he asks if Bond still recognises Madeline). So I suppose the needle didn't find the very specific correct spot Blofeld was going on about and afterwards he was just going to continue to torture Bond.

    It's a bit lazy and vague, and comes purely down to luck which isn't ideal, but oh well.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,898
    The keyword here is 'if'. Blofeld says, "If the needle finds the correct spot..." Clear uncertainty, possibly combined with an uncalibrated computer-to-machine connection.

    Scene could've done with Bond stumbling a bit next to the chair, followed by Madeleine supporting him, but it is what it is, and I still like this scene, minus the CGI watch dial effects.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 3 Posts: 18,508
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Blofeld is not a brain surgeon. He was overconfident in his skills.

    That's my take on it too. He doesn't really knows what he's doing but at the very least he knows he won't be doing Bond any good.
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah all I can think of is that Blofeld just got it wrong, but it's really unsatisfying when you've been told the stakes in a tension scene and they just turn out to have been incorrect: it's cheating the audience. Like if the Goldeneye device had gone off over Europe but it just turned out to have one of those flags inside with 'bang' written on it.

    I guess because he's James Bond and slightly indestructible? Or maybe it actually worked and from here on in a really confused Bond is just bluffing his way his through his life without letting on that he has no idea who anyone is.

    Or I guess more seriously: there are people who do have face blindness or 'prosopagnosia' which means they have trouble recognising faces. I think it varies in strength and people who have it can live normal lives I think: perhaps Bond has that from then on but it doesn't affect him too much.

    That's one of the funniest things I've read on here in a while, @mtm! Very good! :))

    Interestingly enough, Raymond Benson wrote a non-Bond thriller novel called Face Blind (2003) dealing with this very condition.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,628
    Great theories from the group. I had never caught Blofeld saying "IF" and always assumed he had the skill to do the job.

    All right another one from @SIS_HQ. This one might be a case of a director taking artistic license but maybe there is a way for us to theorize how this is possible.

    How does Bunt hit Tracy did centre with a head shot when she is on an angle in the car Blofeld is driving?

    Tracy is last seen looking out the passenger window with the flowers and then she is seen shot right in the middle of her forehead. How is this possible? How was Bunt able to hit her in this way when Bunt was shooting from an angle?

    If one needs a refresher, here is the scene below:

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,304
    Oh haha! I've never noticed that, another film ruined! :))
  • Posts: 4,739
    Never noticed that! Perhaps the bullet ricocheted off of something if we want to rationalise it? I feel there’s a whole rabbit hole to go down with this one though, haha.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,304
    It clearly bounced off that flower :D
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,898
    Homing bullet. SPECTRE have their own Q-Branch, you know.
  • Posts: 1,674
    A second shooter, of course.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 7 Posts: 17,304
    Ha! I like that, Irma was framed! #justiceforbunt
  • Posts: 15,421
    QBranch wrote: »
    Homing bullet. SPECTRE have their own Q-Branch, you know.

    Off topic, but that's one thing I'd love to return to the series: villain's gadgets. SPECTRE should have a Q-Branch with their own Q.
  • The last shot was the one that hit the flowers, but if the second to last shot found its target it could have very well at least come close to the damage that Tracy (and the car)
    would have taken. Of course that'd mean Bunt would've missed incredibly poorly from close range and then made an almost impossible shot round the bend.
  • Posts: 4,696
    I think Costner coud explain the "magic bullet" ?
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited March 7 Posts: 764
    Blunt continues shooting well after they pass the Aston. The final shots aren't on much of an angle. I don't see an issue there.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,167
    QBranch wrote: »
    Homing bullet. SPECTRE have their own Q-Branch, you know.
    How bullets work. And "George".

    Crossroads
    Songwriters: Tom Waits / William S. Burroughs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUHgqSCS6tY&list=RDUUHgqSCS6tY&start_radio=1

    Now, George was a good straight boy to begin with,
    but there was bad blood In him; someway
    he got into the magic bullets and that leads
    straight to Devil's work, just like marijuana leads to heroin;

    you think you can take Them bullets or leave 'em, do you?
    Just save a few for your bad days
    Well, now, we all have those bad days when you can't shoot for shit.
    The more of them magics you use,
    the more bad days you have without them

    So it comes down finally to all your days
    being bad without the bullets
    It's magics or nothing
    Time to stop chippying around and kidding yourself,
    Kid, you're hooked, heavy as lead

    And that's where old George found himself
    Out there at the crossroads
    Molding the Devil's bullets
    Now a man figures it's his bullets, so it will
    Hit what he wants to hit
    But it don't always work that way
    You see, some bullets is special for a single aim
    A certain stag, or a certain person
    And no matter where you are, that's where the bullet will end up
    And in the moment of aiming, the gun turns into a dowser's wand
    And point where the bullet wants to go

    ...
    I guess old George didn't rightly know what he's getting himself into
    The fit was on him and it carried him
    right to the crossroads


  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited March 7 Posts: 3,842
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Blunt continues shooting well after they pass the Aston. The final shots aren't on much of an angle. I don't see an issue there.

    But even in that, it's still impossible due to the range, if we're going down to that theory of yours, there's already a big distance between Blofeld & Irma Bunt's car and the Aston, the bullets fired after that wouldn't likely to reach Tracy, let alone getting a perfect bullseye shot on the middle of her forehead.

    And Blofeld and Irma's car, based on that video was driving too fast, almost a rush thing, how did she managed to get a perfect range shot? Aside from shooting at the side angle (which is the big problem here)?

    If Irma fired at the side angle, would the bullets should hit Tracy at the same side angle, not at the front?
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,167
    A second shooter, of course.
    mtm wrote: »
    Ha! I like that, Irma was framed! #justiceforbunt
    patb wrote: »
    I think Costner coud explain the "magic bullet" ?
    Okay but where's the on screen evidence for a "second shooter"?

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  • SIS_HQ wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Blunt continues shooting well after they pass the Aston. The final shots aren't on much of an angle. I don't see an issue there.

    But even in that, it's still impossible due to the range, if we're going down to that theory of yours, there's already a big distance between Blofeld & Irma Bunt's car and the Aston, the bullets fired after that wouldn't likely to reach Tracy, let alone getting a perfect bullseye shot on the middle of her forehead.

    And Blofeld and Irma's car, based on that video was driving too fast, almost a rush thing, how did she managed to get a perfect range shot? Aside from shooting at the side angle (which is the big problem here)?

    If Irma fired at the side angle, would the bullets should hit Tracy at the same side angle, not at the front?

    Firstly, I don't think the range is too big. Bunt starts shooting at Bond at 1:17, and they're just behind the AM. Assuming 100 kph (60 mph), a fast assumption based on the driving early in the clip, at 1:21 when the last shot rings out, they'd be about 111 metres (121 yards) away from Tracy. Too much for a pistol, but Bunt's got a big gun and its possible.

    In terms of the point of contact, I think the later shots are hitting the front of the car and are going near/through the windscreen which explains the entry position. Consider that the hole in the car doesn't line up with the bullet's entry in Tracy, which would line up with the angle the later bullets may have been shot from. (The main problem with this theory is that Bunt doesn't seem to be trying in the last few shots and one of the bullets clearly ricochets off the bonnet.)

    As for the rest, I think Bunt missed. She would have been trying to hit Bond, and him being able to duck behind the car I think scuppered her plans. Thus causing her to loose off extra shots near the end, and hitting Tracy. Bad luck for Bond, good luck for Bunt.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,308
    The last shot we see of Tracy she’s looking out of the window with the flower, as Bunt and Blofeld do their drive by it’s perfectly reasonable to imagine Tracy turned her head to see what the shooting was and was ultimately struck by a stray bullet.

    The range of the gun and speed of the car are both acceptable. The gun would have a much longer range than is seen in the film. As @Reflsin2bourbons said the cars speed is slower as it approaches, it appears sped up when we see Blofeld and Bunt in the car, but the car isn’t travelling at a high speed at all.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,628
    Let's talk about a different death. This one takes place at the start of the film and occurs in Japan.

    How did Mi6 arrange the "killing" of Bond in YOLT?

    As a child watching this movie I remember thinking how is Bond dead? I was hooked by this intriguing start. Soon as I re-watched the film I started to have questions and came up with my own theories but I am curious about yours.

    Do the local police know that this is a fake killing? Whose blood on the sheets? Was the girl and the hitmen in on it? Did Bond even know this was happening?

    More questions did the girl think she was hiring men to kill a British Secret Agent? Moneypenny says something about "how was the girl we set you up with?"

    Lets hear your theories on the "death" of James Bond?

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