EoN sells up - Amazon MGM to produce 007 going forwards (Heyman and Pascal confirmed as producers)

16465666870

Comments

  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,997
    I personally wouldn't want someone like Hargreave. It's the same reason I wouldn't want someone like David Leitch or Chad Stahelski. They're directors who are more about the action than the story in my opinion. I prefer it when story informs action as opposed to when the action informs the story...
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 789
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I personally wouldn't want someone like Hargreave. It's the same reason I wouldn't want someone like David Leitch or Chad Stahelski. They're directors who are more about the action than the story in my opinion. I prefer it when story informs action as opposed to when the action informs the story...

    You do know Bond starts designing the big action set pieces before anything else right?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,734
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I personally wouldn't want someone like Hargreave. It's the same reason I wouldn't want someone like David Leitch or Chad Stahelski. They're directors who are more about the action than the story in my opinion. I prefer it when story informs action as opposed to when the action informs the story...

    Yeah agreed. I often say that one of the big strengths of LTK is how central to the plot of the entire film the plane/waterskiing action scene is. It changes the direction of the story and is back referenced later on too. I guess you could say the same of the Miami airport sequence in CR.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,997
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I personally wouldn't want someone like Hargreave. It's the same reason I wouldn't want someone like David Leitch or Chad Stahelski. They're directors who are more about the action than the story in my opinion. I prefer it when story informs action as opposed to when the action informs the story...

    You do know Bond starts designing the big action set pieces before anything else right?
    Yes, but the best Bond movies find ways to weave those moments into a narrative that supports character and story. To me, it’s about whether the action ends up feeling integral or just flashy filler. Directors like Hargreave, Stahelski and Leitch are incredibly talented, but they often treat story as a light framework for the next fight or action set piece rather than something organically interwoven.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited April 9 Posts: 2,450
    Another thing is, the reason why Bond films needs very specific directors, it's because it isn't the usual action style. Roger Spottiswoode's approach to TND was action, yet he added scenes like Bond & Wai Lin handcuffed together, but riding a bike. If a Bond director doesn't understand these extra things, then it becomes too trite and not James Bond.
  • K2WIK2WI Europe
    Posts: 35
    Since62 wrote: »
    Do you think most fans want a musical score that manages not to distract, and enhances the viewing experience or - yes, here it comes now - a score of note ?

    Personally I see no reason why the score can't or shouldn't be both, though I suppose that might be tough to describe in practice.
    I'd like to see director Sam Hargrave do a Bond. Lot's of good stuntman-turned directors like Chad Stahelski and David Leitch are doing good work as well.

    My other pick would be Martin Mcdonagh.

    At the very least, I wouldn't say no to having McDonagh work on the script for a Bond film at some point in the future. Helps that his partner co-wrote the last one and has a pre-existing relationship with Amazon, so shouldn't be too hard to get in touch with him about it.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    edited April 9 Posts: 789
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I personally wouldn't want someone like Hargreave. It's the same reason I wouldn't want someone like David Leitch or Chad Stahelski. They're directors who are more about the action than the story in my opinion. I prefer it when story informs action as opposed to when the action informs the story...

    You do know Bond starts designing the big action set pieces before anything else right?
    Yes, but the best Bond movies find ways to weave those moments into a narrative that supports character and story. To me, it’s about whether the action ends up feeling integral or just flashy filler. Directors like Hargreave, Stahelski and Leitch are incredibly talented, but they often treat story as a light framework for the next fight or action set piece rather than something organically interwoven.

    I think the Extraction films have great story and character. I do think Hargrave is above the rest.

    Stahelski' John Wicks are a little thin, yes. But they do have great atmosphere and world-building. We'll see how Highlander goes.

    Leitch I'm not so hot on but I though I should mention him. Too much weird humour that doesn't land in his movies.



    Somehow I forgot to mention Scott Cooper as well, you might like him.

  • Posts: 4,999
    Not seen any of these gentleman's work. I don't think an outright 'action' director is good for Bond regardless. There needs to be variety I'm their work and some sense they can do 'drama'.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,819
    Ryan wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Ok @Daltonforyou and @mtm try now. Sorry. It's very copyright heavy so YouTube made me hide it for awhile.


    That's a fun edit. Michael Giacchino remains my top choice for a fresh composer.

    Thanks. I love that I timed the cop's head turning in tune, and also the final gunshot is perfectly timed to the brass. I had fun 13 years ago.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 789
    007HallY wrote: »
    Not seen any of these gentleman's work. I don't think an outright 'action' director is good for Bond regardless. There needs to be variety I'm their work and some sense they can do 'drama'.

    See Scott Cooper as mentioned above.
  • edited April 9 Posts: 4,999
    007HallY wrote: »
    Not seen any of these gentleman's work. I don't think an outright 'action' director is good for Bond regardless. There needs to be variety I'm their work and some sense they can do 'drama'.

    See Scott Cooper as mentioned above.

    Crazy Heart? Damn... Actually liked that film, although I've not seen it in years! Not seen Black Mass in ages (although I remember finding Depp a bit ridiculous... guess it was ok..). Never seen any of his other stuff.
  • mtm wrote: »
    Yes I can't relieve believe the sort of praise Newman's getting here

    Because we like it, for the reasons stated.
    There are good cues, and particularly in Skyfall you can feel the music helping the film, but I don't think Newman reaches Arnold's heights in terms of use of the Bond theme or even just action cues in general.

    That's fair enough, I think he outstrips him. Yes, I'd like a couple more outright uses of the Bond theme (in Spectre the plane chase, and the boat rocketing out of the MI6 building both could have used it I think), but Arnold was hardly doing that anymore in the Craigs either- even in QOS where there's no thematic reason not to.
    I'd never listen to Skyfall or Spectre the way I'd listen to any of the Barry scores, or Martin's or the Arnold scores.

    Me neither, but the primary purpose of a film score is to work in the film, and for me it more than does that. For you it doesn't, and that's fine.
    Hans Zimmer I think was a step up on Newman in that respect.

    The weird thing for me about that score is the Matera track, in that it sounds to me like it comes directly from the pen of Arnold. I don't know if they took City of Angels as a direct inspiration or something, but it's weird to me how similar it sounds to Arnold, there's quite a few of his recognisable techniques in there.

    "Not believing" the praise was a bit rude. I rephrased that but I don't really hear much about the "new sound" of Bond. Newman was serviceable but not much more for me.

    In terms of Bond and action cues, I think Arnold does fall off a bit in QoS. He does do his spin on the 4 descending theme and it does feel like there's some continuity in it.
  • Posts: 2,173
    The best Craig era soundtrack is by far CR. That hard driving opening riff of YKMN reminds me of the opening of FRWL. Could easily be a cue that's revisited in upcoming Bond films. SF has a couple of nice moments, but nothing that anyone who's introducing a Bond performer or special plays. The best of NTTD samples Barry. As for Craig title songs, YKMN by a mile. A mile behind is NTTD. As for the other three, not a fan.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,645
    mtm wrote: »
    Barry didn't really do character themes all that much, more themes for the moods: love scenes, action, sinister plan etc. Newman actually did more in the way of themes for specific characters, funnily enough. I loved his M theme; and Severine and Lucia both got themes. Arnold gave Vesper a theme but I can't think of any other character he gave one.

    Oddly, I feel like Zao had a theme.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Paul King for Bond 26
    edited April 10 Posts: 7,109
    Elektra had a theme. In fact, the OST track is called Elektra's Theme.
  • Posts: 16,442
    mtm wrote: »
    Barry didn't really do character themes all that much, more themes for the moods: love scenes, action, sinister plan etc. Newman actually did more in the way of themes for specific characters, funnily enough. I loved his M theme; and Severine and Lucia both got themes. Arnold gave Vesper a theme but I can't think of any other character he gave one.

    I'd say Barry used short music cues and motifs specifically for characters, rather than full on themes: Oddjob, Wint and Kidd for instance.
    There were also character tracks that didn't really make it into the films: Tanaka's World. Hamlisch did one for Anya.
    I would hope the score for the new Bond film is memorable. Music scores today rely more on atmosphere rather than catchy themes. If I were asked to hum a few cues from the Marvel, DC or Jason Bourne franchises I'd be at a loss. Mission Impossible, maybe............
    I really wouldn't mind Newman or Arnold returning. However, my hunch is Amazon may go in a different direction with their Bond.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,525
    A ding I’ll give the Newman scores is that they don’t integrate the songs enough, but that’s hardly unique to Newman. Since LTK it became a thing for composers to not collaborate with the artist for the title song, with only few exceptions like TWINE, YKMN and NTTD. I wonder if that falling out between Barry and A-Ha made Eon consider just letting the artists make the songs themselves without the composers. Barry was used to doing all the work and having a song bird to do what he told, and A-Ha wanted more independence in creating the tune. And if I’m correct part of why Barry didn’t come back for TND was because Eon wouldn’t guarantee him control over the song. And when we did see Arnold collaborate for “Surrender” that ultimately got replaced by a song he had no part in.
  • Posts: 16,442
    I certainly prefered the scores that integrated the title songs more. It gave the films their musical identity as well as an atmosphere. I love hearing instrumental versions of the songs used for both action scenes and romance.
    I'd like to think that Amazon will keep the Bondian tradition of having a song and artist to accompany the title scene, but who knows? Maybe they'll omit that tradition altogether?
    We might not see the title until the end of the film as is the case with many modern films today.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited April 10 Posts: 2,450
    I think Amazon knows that the Bond song and the title sequence are huge to Bond fans and even casual Bond fans. Pascal & Heyman are aware of this....especially Pascal. I think those things will stay.
  • Posts: 1,975
    I still think Desplat is the top contender, if he turns out to interested.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,525
    I think Amazon knows that the Bond song and the title sequence are huge to Bond fans and even casual Bond fans. Pascal & Heyman are aware of this....especially Pascal. I think those things will stay.

    Yeah, with all the talk of the new producers wanting to honor the legacy of their predecessors I can’t imagine them throwing out any of the major Bond staples.

    Also, Bond songs are currently on an Oscar streak as the last three have won best original song. They’re gonna wanna try keeping that streak going.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,450
    I think Amazon knows that the Bond song and the title sequence are huge to Bond fans and even casual Bond fans. Pascal & Heyman are aware of this....especially Pascal. I think those things will stay.

    Yeah, with all the talk of the new producers wanting to honor the legacy of their predecessors I can’t imagine them throwing out any of the major Bond staples.

    Also, Bond songs are currently on an Oscar streak as the last three have won best original song. They’re gonna wanna try keeping that streak going.

    Yeah. Definitely.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,734
    A ding I’ll give the Newman scores is that they don’t integrate the songs enough, but that’s hardly unique to Newman. Since LTK it became a thing for composers to not collaborate with the artist for the title song, with only few exceptions like TWINE, YKMN and NTTD. I wonder if that falling out between Barry and A-Ha made Eon consider just letting the artists make the songs themselves without the composers. Barry was used to doing all the work and having a song bird to do what he told, and A-Ha wanted more independence in creating the tune. And if I’m correct part of why Barry didn’t come back for TND was because Eon wouldn’t guarantee him control over the song. And when we did see Arnold collaborate for “Surrender” that ultimately got replaced by a song he had no part in.

    I think it’s happened that the song comes along too late in the process for the composer to integrate and has to be sort of dropped into a handful of score cues, as with QOS, SF and SP.
    NTTD’s score used the song pretty well I thought.
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 139
    mtm wrote: »
    A ding I’ll give the Newman scores is that they don’t integrate the songs enough, but that’s hardly unique to Newman. Since LTK it became a thing for composers to not collaborate with the artist for the title song, with only few exceptions like TWINE, YKMN and NTTD. I wonder if that falling out between Barry and A-Ha made Eon consider just letting the artists make the songs themselves without the composers. Barry was used to doing all the work and having a song bird to do what he told, and A-Ha wanted more independence in creating the tune. And if I’m correct part of why Barry didn’t come back for TND was because Eon wouldn’t guarantee him control over the song. And when we did see Arnold collaborate for “Surrender” that ultimately got replaced by a song he had no part in.

    I think it’s happened that the song comes along too late in the process for the composer to integrate and has to be sort of dropped into a handful of score cues, as with QOS, SF and SP.
    NTTD’s score used the song pretty well I thought.

    Another Way To Die is quoted throughout pretty much all of Quantum of Solace, though. And Writing's on the Wall was recorded in January 2015, which would give Newman plenty of time to incorporate it in the movie.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 10 Posts: 17,734
    mtm wrote: »
    A ding I’ll give the Newman scores is that they don’t integrate the songs enough, but that’s hardly unique to Newman. Since LTK it became a thing for composers to not collaborate with the artist for the title song, with only few exceptions like TWINE, YKMN and NTTD. I wonder if that falling out between Barry and A-Ha made Eon consider just letting the artists make the songs themselves without the composers. Barry was used to doing all the work and having a song bird to do what he told, and A-Ha wanted more independence in creating the tune. And if I’m correct part of why Barry didn’t come back for TND was because Eon wouldn’t guarantee him control over the song. And when we did see Arnold collaborate for “Surrender” that ultimately got replaced by a song he had no part in.

    I think it’s happened that the song comes along too late in the process for the composer to integrate and has to be sort of dropped into a handful of score cues, as with QOS, SF and SP.
    NTTD’s score used the song pretty well I thought.

    Another Way To Die is quoted throughout pretty much all of Quantum of Solace, though. And Writing's on the Wall was recorded in January 2015, which would give Newman plenty of time to incorporate it in the movie.

    AWTD is quoted in little bits and pieces unlike the usual way a song melody is used- just a phrase here or there, I don't know if he was just popping the little slices in where he could into cues he'd already written or didn't want to use it more. I guess that's right about WOTW (although I don't know when the score was recorded); maybe, like Arnold with AWTD, he just didn't want to use it more. It still gets more of a quote in the score than LTK, DAD, GE or TND did.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited April 10 Posts: 2,450
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    A ding I’ll give the Newman scores is that they don’t integrate the songs enough, but that’s hardly unique to Newman. Since LTK it became a thing for composers to not collaborate with the artist for the title song, with only few exceptions like TWINE, YKMN and NTTD. I wonder if that falling out between Barry and A-Ha made Eon consider just letting the artists make the songs themselves without the composers. Barry was used to doing all the work and having a song bird to do what he told, and A-Ha wanted more independence in creating the tune. And if I’m correct part of why Barry didn’t come back for TND was because Eon wouldn’t guarantee him control over the song. And when we did see Arnold collaborate for “Surrender” that ultimately got replaced by a song he had no part in.

    I think it’s happened that the song comes along too late in the process for the composer to integrate and has to be sort of dropped into a handful of score cues, as with QOS, SF and SP.
    NTTD’s score used the song pretty well I thought.

    Another Way To Die is quoted throughout pretty much all of Quantum of Solace, though. And Writing's on the Wall was recorded in January 2015, which would give Newman plenty of time to incorporate it in the movie.

    AWTD is quoted in little bits and pieces unlike the usual way a song melody is used- just a phrase here or there, I don't know if he was just popping the little slices in where he could into cues he'd already written or didn't want to use it more. I guess that's right about WOTW (although I don't know when the score was recorded); maybe, like Arnold with AWTD, he just didn't want to use it more. It still gets more of a quote in the score than LTK, DAD, GE or TND did.

    Yes. I think Arnold liked AWTD a little bit, because he used it twice. But not fully like you said. I remember it being used a bit in the opening car chase and when Bond chases Mitchell.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,734
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    A ding I’ll give the Newman scores is that they don’t integrate the songs enough, but that’s hardly unique to Newman. Since LTK it became a thing for composers to not collaborate with the artist for the title song, with only few exceptions like TWINE, YKMN and NTTD. I wonder if that falling out between Barry and A-Ha made Eon consider just letting the artists make the songs themselves without the composers. Barry was used to doing all the work and having a song bird to do what he told, and A-Ha wanted more independence in creating the tune. And if I’m correct part of why Barry didn’t come back for TND was because Eon wouldn’t guarantee him control over the song. And when we did see Arnold collaborate for “Surrender” that ultimately got replaced by a song he had no part in.

    I think it’s happened that the song comes along too late in the process for the composer to integrate and has to be sort of dropped into a handful of score cues, as with QOS, SF and SP.
    NTTD’s score used the song pretty well I thought.

    Another Way To Die is quoted throughout pretty much all of Quantum of Solace, though. And Writing's on the Wall was recorded in January 2015, which would give Newman plenty of time to incorporate it in the movie.

    AWTD is quoted in little bits and pieces unlike the usual way a song melody is used- just a phrase here or there, I don't know if he was just popping the little slices in where he could into cues he'd already written or didn't want to use it more. I guess that's right about WOTW (although I don't know when the score was recorded); maybe, like Arnold with AWTD, he just didn't want to use it more. It still gets more of a quote in the score than LTK, DAD, GE or TND did.

    Yes. I think Arnold liked AWTD a little bit, because he used it twice. But not fully like you said. I remember it being used a bit in the opening car chase and when Bond chases Mitchell.

    There's quite a number of them, but they're all just little bits and pieces. This vid is really good on it:

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,525
    Some of those samples seem flimsy. “Woven throughout the entire film”, uh huh…

    Has Arnold himself actually addressed this?
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,450
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    A ding I’ll give the Newman scores is that they don’t integrate the songs enough, but that’s hardly unique to Newman. Since LTK it became a thing for composers to not collaborate with the artist for the title song, with only few exceptions like TWINE, YKMN and NTTD. I wonder if that falling out between Barry and A-Ha made Eon consider just letting the artists make the songs themselves without the composers. Barry was used to doing all the work and having a song bird to do what he told, and A-Ha wanted more independence in creating the tune. And if I’m correct part of why Barry didn’t come back for TND was because Eon wouldn’t guarantee him control over the song. And when we did see Arnold collaborate for “Surrender” that ultimately got replaced by a song he had no part in.

    I think it’s happened that the song comes along too late in the process for the composer to integrate and has to be sort of dropped into a handful of score cues, as with QOS, SF and SP.
    NTTD’s score used the song pretty well I thought.

    Another Way To Die is quoted throughout pretty much all of Quantum of Solace, though. And Writing's on the Wall was recorded in January 2015, which would give Newman plenty of time to incorporate it in the movie.

    AWTD is quoted in little bits and pieces unlike the usual way a song melody is used- just a phrase here or there, I don't know if he was just popping the little slices in where he could into cues he'd already written or didn't want to use it more. I guess that's right about WOTW (although I don't know when the score was recorded); maybe, like Arnold with AWTD, he just didn't want to use it more. It still gets more of a quote in the score than LTK, DAD, GE or TND did.

    Yes. I think Arnold liked AWTD a little bit, because he used it twice. But not fully like you said. I remember it being used a bit in the opening car chase and when Bond chases Mitchell.

    There's quite a number of them, but they're all just little bits and pieces. This vid is really good on it:


    Oh, interesting.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 10 Posts: 17,734
    Some of those samples seem flimsy. “Woven throughout the entire film”, uh huh…

    Has Arnold himself actually addressed this?

    I dunno, I think they all hold up (maybe a couple are bit tough: I'm not too certain about the burning hotel cue). He has confirmed a couple of times that he used the song in the film, I remember him mentioning it on the Scala radio series he presented in the lead up to NTTD's release. Something like the "can't find the stationary" bit is very clearly the song.
Sign In or Register to comment.