What do you consider the most dire moment in a Bond film?

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  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    @NicNac, I have to agree fully with your brief critique of LTK-- Davi's so relaxed, charismatic and oozes charm... But in a moment, that charm can turn to a psychopath's anger-- no empathy, just rage.

    It truly was a killer performance (pun intended).
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,584
    peter wrote: »
    @NicNac, I have to agree fully with your brief critique of LTK-- Davi's so relaxed, charismatic and oozes charm... But in a moment, that charm can turn to a psychopath's anger-- no empathy, just rage.

    It truly was a killer performance (pun intended).

    ;) . He was the best thing in the film
  • Posts: 1,162
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Milovy wrote: »
    +1. Bloody awful. I still wince in horror whenever I have the misfortune to view this.

    The added music accentuates and personifies how it came across all those years ago in the theatre. A very demoralizing experience I must say.

    I really have to say I don't see anything there to hate.
    In this case I'm afraid I'm not able to help you. Sorry, old chap.
    Your response to another poster sort of sums up all I can say in response to your comment to me. One either sees & feels it or one doesn't. The fact that someone made a youtube clip mocking it indicates those who don't like it aren't alone. I know there are members here who rate TWINE and Brosnan's performance in it quite highly. I'll never understand that, just like I'm certain there are some who just can't understand why SF is so lauded by many, including myself.
    Also, I really really wish the screenplay or script of the last two movies had displayed only third as much quality as the TWINE one.
    I agree that the script and screenplay were half decent, and as I've said elsewhere there were some interesting ideas in TWINE. I personally believe they failed in the execution. The cast, atmosphere, score, visuals, locations, action sequences, pacing, cinematography, tonal balance and most notably Bond actor performance did absolutely nothing for me.

    Since this is after all all about taste ( and I also feel that Apted did quite a few things wrong in the movie )I agree with every word you say. I am also aware that for us and then makes some funny faces in TWINE (which I actually fault the director for since this is what he is on the set. To tell the actors that they done wrong.) but not in this scene. Not to me. But again, it's all about taste.
    Regarding the stories - You see I am foremost a reader and to me a minimum of logic and also originality is absolutely essential. After all, if I read a book that's acceptable good written but features a plot I have read several times before, why should I care for the novel and not lay it to the side in favor of some book written by someone who has to offer me something new and creative. Call me a snob but if someone hasn't got anything new creative and original and him in my eyes he or she should have no business in the entertainment industry. Well maybe except as a bean counter, that is. When I see all the products on the market, be it movies ( including a zillion of reboots, remakes or whatever per year), novels or whatever I know I am a minority but still this is how I feel.
    Regarding the last two movies they feel like a permanent slap in my face to me ( and believe me I am not a nitpicker when it comes to James Bond storylines. After all it was TSWLM which brought me into the game.).
    TWINE at least was polite enough not to insult my intellect every minutes of the film.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Milovy wrote: »
    +1. Bloody awful. I still wince in horror whenever I have the misfortune to view this.

    The added music accentuates and personifies how it came across all those years ago in the theatre. A very demoralizing experience I must say.

    I really have to say I don't see anything there to hate.
    In this case I'm afraid I'm not able to help you. Sorry, old chap.
    Your response to another poster sort of sums up all I can say in response to your comment to me. One either sees & feels it or one doesn't. The fact that someone made a youtube clip mocking it indicates those who don't like it aren't alone. I know there are members here who rate TWINE and Brosnan's performance in it quite highly. I'll never understand that, just like I'm certain there are some who just can't understand why SF is so lauded by many, including myself.
    Also, I really really wish the screenplay or script of the last two movies had displayed only third as much quality as the TWINE one.
    I agree that the script and screenplay were half decent, and as I've said elsewhere there were some interesting ideas in TWINE. I personally believe they failed in the execution. The cast, atmosphere, score, visuals, locations, action sequences, pacing, cinematography, tonal balance and most notably Bond actor performance did absolutely nothing for me.

    Since this is after all all about taste ( and I also feel that Apted did quite a few things wrong in the movie )I agree with every word you say. I am also aware that for us and then makes some funny faces in TWINE (which I actually fault the director for since this is what he is on the set. To tell the actors that they done wrong.) but not in this scene. Not to me. But again, it's all about taste.
    Regarding the stories - You see I am foremost a reader and to me a minimum of logic and also originality is absolutely essential. After all, if I read a book that's acceptable good written but features a plot I have read several times before, why should I care for the novel and not lay it to the side in favor of some book written by someone who has to offer me something new and creative. Call me a snob but if someone hasn't got anything new creative and original and him in my eyes he or she should have no business in the entertainment industry. Well maybe except as a bean counter, that is. When I see all the products on the market, be it movies ( including a zillion of reboots, remakes or whatever per year), novels or whatever I know I am a minority but still this is how I feel.
    Regarding the last two movies they feel like a permanent slap in my face to me ( and believe me I am not a nitpicker when it comes to James Bond storylines. After all it was TSWLM which brought me into the game.).
    TWINE at least was polite enough not to insult my intellect every minutes of the film.
    I can understand where you're coming from, especially when you say you are first and foremost a 'reader'. Those who dislike SF in particular tend to criticize its plot. I've never defended that aspect of the film and don't think it's the strongest aspect. The film 'medium' is also a visual & aural one however. What could work in a book may not work so well on screen.

    I've always felt that SF nailed the 'experience' of a Bond film, particularly in the visual/aural space, and that is one of the reasons for its massive success. Right from the first trailer it telegraphed something special which evoked (to me) the great Bond entries from the past. I think it succeeded on this level, immeasurably, and that is why it hooked so many people. Bladerunner is another film that did that. It's not only the visuals, but also in the characters and their interactions as well as the overall 'atmosphere' and 'aesthetic'. Were some of us conned by this surface gloss? Perhaps, but there are also the underlying thematic aspects which made us think (and feel?) even if the specific plot had gaps.

    TWINE lacks all of these above qualities for me, and that is one of the primary reasons I can't enjoy the film. If it did, I might have actually liked it. SP has some of the qualities, but I just didn't like the way they pulled it together. The visual/aural experience and character interactions didn't resonate with me. It seemed clunky & jarring, rather than flowing smoothly. It could have been so much better, and that is the frustrating thing about it.

    You're right though, it really is a matter of taste. I've seen members passionately argue in TWINE's defense, including embracing particular scenes, which I honestly can't stand. We can see the same scene and have a different interpretation and experience depending on our own sensibilities. What is moving to some may appear cheesy to others.
  • My most dire moment?

    "This never happened to the other fella!"

    Forever cemented in my mind the thought of George Lazenby as nothing more than a pretender in the role of James Bond.

    My second-most dire moment was the way Bond seduced every last one of the Angels of Death with the same gimmick, word for word. I know Bond is a womaniser, but this was just plain sleazy. And then, twenty-four hours later, he's proposing to Tracy.

    Don't foget the Most Laid Man Alive getting really excited checking out a porno mag in the banker's office and walking through the hallway with it opened. Like he is a normal porn-reading Joe Schmo.

    These and the fact Blofeld does not recoginze Bond are the biggest and dire mistakes in an otherwise incredible mobie.
  • STLCards3 wrote: »
    My most dire moment?

    "This never happened to the other fella!"

    Forever cemented in my mind the thought of George Lazenby as nothing more than a pretender in the role of James Bond.

    My second-most dire moment was the way Bond seduced every last one of the Angels of Death with the same gimmick, word for word. I know Bond is a womaniser, but this was just plain sleazy. And then, twenty-four hours later, he's proposing to Tracy.

    Don't foget the Most Laid Man Alive getting really excited checking out a porno mag in the banker's office and walking through the hallway with it opened. Like he is a normal porn-reading Joe Schmo.

    These and the fact Blofeld does not recoginze Bond are the biggest and dire mistakes in an otherwise incredible mobie.

    Playboy was never a porno and especially in the swinging 60s a highly regarded thing in certain circles, including intellectuals.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    My most dire moment?

    "This never happened to the other fella!"

    Forever cemented in my mind the thought of George Lazenby as nothing more than a pretender in the role of James Bond.

    My second-most dire moment was the way Bond seduced every last one of the Angels of Death with the same gimmick, word for word. I know Bond is a womaniser, but this was just plain sleazy. And then, twenty-four hours later, he's proposing to Tracy.

    Don't foget the Most Laid Man Alive getting really excited checking out a porno mag in the banker's office and walking through the hallway with it opened. Like he is a normal porn-reading Joe Schmo.

    These and the fact Blofeld does not recoginze Bond are the biggest and dire mistakes in an otherwise incredible mobie.

    Playboy was never a porno and especially in the swinging 60s a highly regarded thing in certain circles, including intellectuals.

    And some Bond stories were printed in Playboy…I think OHMSS was serialised in it, so a little 'in' joke there from Peter Hunt.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    My most dire moment?

    "This never happened to the other fella!"

    Forever cemented in my mind the thought of George Lazenby as nothing more than a pretender in the role of James Bond.

    My second-most dire moment was the way Bond seduced every last one of the Angels of Death with the same gimmick, word for word. I know Bond is a womaniser, but this was just plain sleazy. And then, twenty-four hours later, he's proposing to Tracy.

    Don't foget the Most Laid Man Alive getting really excited checking out a porno mag in the banker's office and walking through the hallway with it opened. Like he is a normal porn-reading Joe Schmo.

    These and the fact Blofeld does not recoginze Bond are the biggest and dire mistakes in an otherwise incredible mobie.

    Playboy was never a porno and especially in the swinging 60s a highly regarded thing in certain circles, including intellectuals.

    And some Bond stories were printed in Playboy…I think OHMSS was serialised in it, so a little 'in' joke there from Peter Hunt.

    He isn t reading a Bond story.
  • Posts: 19,339
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    My most dire moment?

    "This never happened to the other fella!"

    Forever cemented in my mind the thought of George Lazenby as nothing more than a pretender in the role of James Bond.

    My second-most dire moment was the way Bond seduced every last one of the Angels of Death with the same gimmick, word for word. I know Bond is a womaniser, but this was just plain sleazy. And then, twenty-four hours later, he's proposing to Tracy.

    Don't foget the Most Laid Man Alive getting really excited checking out a porno mag in the banker's office and walking through the hallway with it opened. Like he is a normal porn-reading Joe Schmo.

    These and the fact Blofeld does not recoginze Bond are the biggest and dire mistakes in an otherwise incredible mobie.

    Playboy was never a porno and especially in the swinging 60s a highly regarded thing in certain circles, including intellectuals.

    And some Bond stories were printed in Playboy…I think OHMSS was serialised in it, so a little 'in' joke there from Peter Hunt.

    He isn t reading a Bond story.

    No,he is just keeping 'abreast' of the situation.

  • Posts: 6,022
    And keeping the british end up.

    For me, Bond blackmailing Patricia in TB makes me uncomfortable. Granted, she has "that look", but still, it's creepy as hell.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Gerard wrote: »
    And keeping the british end up.

    For me, Bond blackmailing Patricia in TB makes me uncomfortable. Granted, she has "that look", but still, it's creepy as hell.
    One of the moments I particularly appreciate from the film. Her remarks afterwards suggest it went well.
  • Posts: 12,522
    The last 40 minutes of DAD are the most dire of any Bond film for me. Absolutely painful in every way - dialogue, effects, acting, etc. It’s atrocious.

    Some runner-uppers: DAF’s final act + an unsatisfying Blofeld story following OHMSS (the way they chose to continue was poor), TMWTGG slide whistle, MR pigeon double take, MR Jaws falling in love, OP’s tarzan yell, TWINE finale after Elektra’s death (it just feels pointless; she made the film), DAD’s surfing scene, SP post-Blofeld reveal (I like most of the film leading up, but SP’s third act is pretty dire).

    I’m probably forgetting a few, but these bother me the most.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 12,837
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Personally I like both SF and TWINE..lucky me.

    Same. I think TWINE was them trying something new and SF was them going back to a lot of those ideas and smoothing out the rough edges. Both are top ten for me.
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    My most dire moment?

    "This never happened to the other fella!"

    Forever cemented in my mind the thought of George Lazenby as nothing more than a pretender in the role of James Bond.

    My second-most dire moment was the way Bond seduced every last one of the Angels of Death with the same gimmick, word for word. I know Bond is a womaniser, but this was just plain sleazy. And then, twenty-four hours later, he's proposing to Tracy.

    Don't foget the Most Laid Man Alive getting really excited checking out a porno mag in the banker's office and walking through the hallway with it opened. Like he is a normal porn-reading Joe Schmo.

    These and the fact Blofeld does not recoginze Bond are the biggest and dire mistakes in an otherwise incredible mobie.

    Playboy was never a porno and especially in the swinging 60s a highly regarded thing in certain circles, including intellectuals.

    And some Bond stories were printed in Playboy…I think OHMSS was serialised in it, so a little 'in' joke there from Peter Hunt.

    He isn t reading a Bond story.

    You never know. Bond is a known name in some of the films, and the YOLT obituary mentions that there are books based on Bond's missions.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited February 2018 Posts: 9,117
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    Don't foget the Most Laid Man Alive getting really excited checking out a porno mag in the banker's office and walking through the hallway with it opened. Like he is a normal porn-reading Joe Schmo.

    This is certainly a strange directorial decision by Hunt. I mean is he insinuating that Bond is planning to go back to the hotel and tease one out? Surely he could just pick up a bird in the hotel bar?

    It's Gumbold I feel sorry for. Bereft of Bond's charisma at pulling and with Mrs Gumbold well past her sell by date and only allowing him a go at Christmas and his birthday he's just nipped out for a jar of hand cream only to come back and find someone's robbed his centrefold and ruined his afternoon relaxation.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    @TheWizardOfIce

    Well, when you put it like that... ;-)
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,926
    Bond simply took the centerfold to play a prank on Major Boothroyd back at Q Branch. Not complicated.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    He was going to switch the centerfold with Q's exposition cue cards. "007, this vehicle is equipped with all the usual refinements: machineguns, rockets, two large melons..."
  • Gerard wrote: »
    And keeping the british end up.

    For me, Bond blackmailing Patricia in TB makes me uncomfortable. Granted, she has "that look", but still, it's creepy as hell.

    I kinda agree. Even the other times Bond slapped a woman or forced Pussy Galore in the hay - there was a big picture element to it. Not that it made it right and - but they were at least for information or to "turn" the women into saving the world or trying to find out who was wanting to kill him. Always something with a somewhat thinly veiled noble cause. The sexual harassment in TB was not one of those times. The fact that Patricia Fearing liked it in the end doesn't exactly make it less disturbing.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Pat liked it from the start,she was flirting with him from the off.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited February 2018 Posts: 15,423
    I admit I also find Bond's behaviour in that scene rather inappropriate. I mean, sure, audiences had to believe back then that romancing a girl was triumphant and victorious, but I don't see it that way at all. I can tolerate the deed with Miss Galore, but not with Patricia, even though she did seem to invite him to it with a smile.

    But, there could be a cover-up to Bond's claim about "someone wishing the day hasn't happened". He didn't want to be in the spotlight and making a big deal out of it by saying he was attacked by someone so he had to slip under the veil and track Lippe down from the shadows. It sort of makes sense from that angle.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    I do not find the Pat scene in TB that problematic - the one with Pussy Galore in the hay is the scene that I think feels inappropriate.

    But to me, Pat was flirting with Bond all the time and it did not at all appear as if he really blackmailed her but they teased each other in a flirting way whereas Bond really forces himself onto Pussy. I doubt it was not seen this way in 1964 ...
  • Posts: 4,045
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Pat liked it from the start,she was flirting with him from the off.

    Especially once she saw 007 gyrating on the orgasmatron
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Dolly & Jaws meeting. It's like something out of a 'Carry On' Film!
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Dolly & Jaws meeting. It's like something out of a 'Carry On' Film!
    Worse.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    I do not find the Pat scene in TB that problematic - the one with Pussy Galore in the hay is the scene that I think feels inappropriate.

    But to me, Pat was flirting with Bond all the time and it did not at all appear as if he really blackmailed her but they teased each other in a flirting way whereas Bond really forces himself onto Pussy. I doubt it was not seen this way in 1964 ...
    Agreed. One of the better scenes in the film for me and to be expected from James Bond. There are other channels to view if this sort of thing disturbs one.
  • Posts: 1,548
    Die another day iceberg surfing! I remember squirming in the cinema. Octopussy with Bond swinging like Tarzan and saying sit Barbara Woodh ouse style is embarrassing.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    Die another day iceberg surfing! I remember squirming in the cinema.
    A very uncomfortable moment for sure!

    I had a similar one in 2015 during the 'hanging photos' sequence.
  • Posts: 4,045
    bondjames wrote: »
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    Die another day iceberg surfing! I remember squirming in the cinema.
    A very uncomfortable moment for sure!

    I had a similar one in 2015 during the 'hanging photos' sequence.

    The hanging photos may be lame and heavy handed, but the iceberg surfing was all that plus it was technically inept.
  • Posts: 19,339
    vzok wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    Die another day iceberg surfing! I remember squirming in the cinema.
    A very uncomfortable moment for sure!

    I had a similar one in 2015 during the 'hanging photos' sequence.

    The hanging photos may be lame and heavy handed, but the iceberg surfing was all that plus it was technically inept.

    Did Pierce ever try to put his foot down about that scene ?
    He must have seen the finished product.

  • Posts: 19,339
    barryt007 wrote: »
    vzok wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    Die another day iceberg surfing! I remember squirming in the cinema.
    A very uncomfortable moment for sure!

    I had a similar one in 2015 during the 'hanging photos' sequence.

    The hanging photos may be lame and heavy handed, but the iceberg surfing was all that plus it was technically inept.

    Did Pierce ever try to put his foot down about that scene ?
    He must have seen the finished product.

    I don't recall anything from the time while in production .

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