Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Murdock wrote: »
    GE was Perfection. ;)
    GE great film rest of PB fell short in quality I think. GE had a good level of class
    GE felt essentially Bondian to me. True to form, but modernized for the new millennium.

    The remainder of the PB efforts gave off a distinctly 2nd class vibe. Like a hack or subpar aspirant was behind the wheel. It permeated nearly everything about these films for me. In a way, it reminded me of those 60's films that tried to copy Bond but just didn't quite get what it was all about.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    GE was Perfection. ;)
    GE great film rest of PB fell short in quality I think. GE had a good level of class
    GE felt essentially Bondian to me. True to form, but modernized for the new millennium.

    The remainder of the PB efforts gave off a distinctly 2nd class vibe. Like a hack or subpar aspirant was behind the wheel. It permeated nearly everything about these films for me. In a way, it reminded me of those 60's films that tried to copy Bond but just didn't quite get what it was all about.

    Rest of PB tenure was generic, credit to Pierce he elevated some aspects of his movies though and this is the controversial thread. PB films were generally rubbish

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Being new, I don't know just how controversial this is among the crowd here, but here goes:

    Brosnan is my least favorite Bond by a fair margin. He doesn't bring anything new to the table and there isn't a single thing about his portrayal that particularly stands out as being all that good to me. He's serviceable at best. In his defense, however, I don't think it's his fault, he was dealt a bad hand and stuck in a changing of the guard where they weren't sure where to go with the series after Cubby.

    Apologies to any fans of his era here.
    bondjames wrote: »
    @TheSharkFromJaws, I'm inclined to agree with you, although he had his moments, most notably in GE & DAD. He's an amalgam Bond to me. One who attempted to combine the best of Connery & Moore with a little Dalton here and there. The result was reminiscent of an average cover band or grocery store branded cola. Serviceable is a reasonable way of putting it.

    There's no doubt he wasn't done any favours with the scripts post-Cubby. However, I think he also botched some of the chances he was given, particularly the emotional scenes in TWINE, which were quite cringe worthy at least for me. He probably needed a more seasoned hand in the director's chair, and it's unfortunate that he didn't get that.

    His interpretation of the character is least enjoyable for me as well. Ultimately his films are entertaining and light hearted, and that's something I suppose.
    Being new, I don't know just how controversial this is among the crowd here, but here goes:

    Brosnan is my least favorite Bond by a fair margin. He doesn't bring anything new to the table and there isn't a single thing about his portrayal that particularly stands out as being all that good to me. He's serviceable at best. In his defense, however, I don't think it's his fault, he was dealt a bad hand and stuck in a changing of the guard where they weren't sure where to go with the series after Cubby.

    Apologies to any fans of his era here.

    +1 Pierce is bottom of the list, though I accept him more than I did in the 90's. Brosnan was not given good material

    You all sound like Brosnan apologists.
  • Here's one: Live and Let Die is on the radio more than any other Bond film song, and therefore the most popular and memorable.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Here's one: Live and Let Die is on the radio more than any other Bond film song, and therefore the most popular and memorable.
    I don't hear it all that often. SF seems to get more airplay, perhaps because it's more recent. However, LALD is my favourite Bond song, followed closely by Nobody Does it Better.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    I hear LALD and SF more than any other on the radio; in fact, I can't think of any other Bond theme song I have heard on the radio, perhaps aside from WOTW when that was brand new in late 2015.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Every so often I hear SF playing on the radio at work (I work retail). I think it's probably the most popular Bond song in mainstream culture.
  • edited February 2017 Posts: 6,844
    LALD and Nobody Does It Better seem to be the two that have transcended the world of James Bond and become fully embedded in popular culture, but there's no debating the star power of Paul McCartney over Carly Simon, and the cover by Guns N' Roses doesn't hurt the song's continued traction either.
  • LALD is not my favorite Bond theme. Just going by how much I hear Bond songs on the radio. View to a Kill might be second.
  • edited February 2017 Posts: 6,844
    Because of Duran Duran's popularity, I believe A View to a Kill (similar to Adele's Skyfall perhaps) is viewed by the public as a great DD song, as opposed to one more James Bond song.

    Whereas Goldfinger—popular though it may be—will always be heard with the context of Bond in mind.
  • Very cool, I had no idea Tom Petty had done a Goldfinger cover! Just listening to that opening goes to show what I'm saying—I'm sure everyone in the house was thinking, "Oh he's doing a James Bond song!" not, "Oh he's doing that Shirley Bassey song!"
  • For better or worse, I'm just judging by Bond songs I hear on the radio.
    I don't think most people today know Goldfinger.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I hear A View to a Kill all the time.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Maybe just the under 25's, but it's part of the zeitgeist by now.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Hmm, interesting one.

    1. Die Another Day is Not the worst in the series, that dubious honour goes jointly to QOS and Diamonds Are Forever, depending on my mood.

    2. Skyfall is the most overrated of all the Bond films!

    3. A lot of the better films in the series had a weaker villian, and vice-versa.

    4. John Glen wasnt actually a bad director, just workmanlike.

    5. Connery being 'Japanesed up' in YOLT wasnt actually as bad as people make out, and was take directly from Fleming.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,026
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Hmm, interesting one.

    ...
    Well, people, here you see what kind of a diverse bunch of people have come here from IMDb.

    I disagree with Phil about at least Nos. 1 and 2, and half of 5. DAD is definitely the worst of them all, if not by far (TWINE is down there as well, with DAF and AVTAK slightly above), and SF is one of the best (in fact, my No. 2 after FRWL). And no matter if the Japanese Bond is straight from Fleming, it makes sense in the Shatterhand story of the novel because he actually lives in the village for a while, but not YOLT the movie, and the result is plainly cringe-inducing and ridiculous (no, I don't think it is racist, it's too obviously stupid travelogue nonsense for that) and brings YOLT down by at least 1/10.

    Come to think of it, take this as my "controversial" opinions for now.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    @j_w_pepper we are indeed a diverse bunch. One of the reasons I enjoyed debating things with you and the others so much.

  • I hear A View to a Kill all the time.

    I agree.

    It's a close call for me, between LALD and VTAK, though I do hear LALD a little more.

  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    CountJohn wrote: »
    See, to me "Bondian" is a lush, sophisticated European atmosphere that's also tense and romantic. So FRWL would be up there for me in terms of the most "Bondian" films, alongside stuff like OHMSS, OP, TLD, GE, CR, SF, and SP.

    There's something about this film, but I can't quite put my finger on it. I think the action lacks a certain larger-than-life quality. Dr. No is like that, as well, but the premise and setting make up for it.
    Least Bondian are of course the Brosnan films. Along with CR67.

    In particular, I'd say Tomorrow Never Dies and Die Another Day feel more Hollywood than most other Bond films. That's not the case with GoldenEye and The World Is Not Enough. Still, TND and DAD feel more Bondian to me than FRWL.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    I hear A View to a Kill all the time.

    I agree.

    It's a close call for me, between LALD and VTAK, though I do hear LALD a little more.

    One should not care to much about what songs are on the radio. This btw very much depends on the channel. In Germany, many of the rather mainstream channels don't even play 60s and 70s songs. One can however say that the songs already at the time had a very different success. Goldfinger was the only really successfull song in the 60s. A song which was also very successfull was FYEO being in the top10 of the US, the UK and the German music charts. Nobody does it better was successfulll in the US and the UK but has never been so very popular in the rest of the world. I have never heard it on the radio in Germany. The other three very successfull songs were LALD, AVTAK and Skyfall. Interestingly, between 1987 and 1999 no Bond song charted in the US. Even Tina Turner didn't. I don't know why this was the case...
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,112
    About Rog's tenure. The middle part of his Bond career is the less interesting one. He started off great with his first three outings (LALD, TMWTGG, TSWLM) and ended with two very enjoyable films (OP, AVTAK).

    In between there is one film that loses itself in excesses (MR) and one that does the complete opposite and turns out to be rather forgettable (FYEO).
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    LALD is my favourite Moore Bond and performance by far.

    I find "For Your Eyes Only" a very entertaining adventure that wisely, after the ridiculous "Moonraker", brought James Bond down to earth and back to some Fleming.

    Here is a 007 adventure where we get a more human James Bond who must think his way through situations with almost no gadgetry. It's amusing to watch James fend off the sexual advances and attempted seductions brought on Olympic skater Bibi in a twist of Bond's regular romantic life. Here is a 007 mission straight out of the real world Cold War. This story is grounded with many elements of Fleming.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    FYEO could have been so much better than it was, and that's the most frustrating thing about it for me. They had all the right ingredients, and the film certainly has some very memorable elements. In fact, it's one of my most viewed Bond films on blu ray because it looks so spectacular in that format.

    However, I do find it quite dull in many areas. The Neptune sequence is terribly boring and goes on forever. The hockey fight is a joke. Some of the casting choices aren't to my liking and lack spark. Not to mention Conti's score can be cringe inducing at times.

    With a few tweaks, it could easily have been a top 5 Bond film for me. Sadly, as it is, it languishes near the middle of the pack. I blame it on Glen getting his feet wet in the director's chair.

    I feel the same way about MR interestingly. If they'd just kept it a little more taut and foregone the need for a punchline after every action sequence, it could have been a far superior outing. The film has many memorable sequences, not least Corinne's death, the centrifuge, Chang fight, lab poisoning etc.

    So yes, I think these two entries are the most frustrating in Moore's run, as they could have both been so much more.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I actually love FYEO just the way it is, but I can understand people's complaints about it.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    @suavejmf, even though I've been warming to MR more and more lately, I can agree with most of that, particularly LALD being my favorite Moore Bond film/performance of his. Love it.
  • edited February 2017 Posts: 787
    OK, here's one:

    DAF is the worst Bond film because it's boring, and being boring is the only unforgivable sin in the Bond canon.

    Brozza's worst movies are over-the-top, and Craig's are overwrought, and Moore's are campy, but DAF is boring. The actors -especially Connery - seem bored by the proceedings. The production is often indifferent (continuity errors, gaps in narrative). The visuals are flat and dull, with Vegas in particular looking totally uninteresting. I can't remember a thing about the score or music except the ho-hum title track. The action sequences are boring and I don't find myself particularly caring about what's at stake. (Diamonds? On a satellite? Or something?)

    I'll let Bond get away with a lot. I'll forgive bad fashion, or bad humour, or gaping wide plot holes. But Bond cannot be boring.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    octofinger wrote: »
    I'll let Bond get away with a lot. I'll forgive bad fashion, or bad humour, or gaping wide plot holes. But Bond cannot be boring.
    I can agree with this part of your premise. I also don't think Bond films should be predictable.

    However, I don't agree on DAF. It's quite entertaining and memorable for me. The score in particular is a highlight, and there are plenty of charismatic (if cheesy) characters. Moreover, it does indeed have 'bad fashion'. I'm not saying it's a great Bond film, mind you. Just that I don't find it boring.

    In terms of 'boring', SP & TWINE are on that list for me, and that's why they rank very low on my list.

  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Well, you can always argue how good a Bond film could have been if this or that was changed. Well, but this can be said for actually all Bond films. Even great films like GF, FRWL or GE could have been so much better. OHMSS could have been so much better had it had a better actor to play Bond. Still it is very good.

    I guess the whole Neptune scene lasts for about 10 minutes. How can this be terribly boring and go on forever? I think it is a very intense scene. It is actually the only time, Bond is extremely far beneath the surface.

    BTW: Am I the only one who sees some similarity between the approaching to the sunk St. Georges and the approaching to the space station in MR. These are also my favourite Conti track in FYEO and my favourite Barry track in MR.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    PS: I absolutely love FYEO :-) So I am certainly a bit biased and can overlook some of its rather obvious flaws (Bibi, Hockey players, Ski chase score).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    GBF wrote: »
    I guess the whole Neptune scene lasts for about 10 minutes. How can this be terribly boring and go on forever? I think it is a very intense scene. It is actually the only time, Bond is extremely far beneath the surface.
    I don't think it's directed very well. Pedestrian, uninspired & too linear imho. Everything from the bloke in the JIM suit to the later sea vehicle with the geek in it are just dull for me. I much prefer the manner in which the underwater sequences in TSWLM, TB or LTK move along. So it's 10 minutes that do nothing for me. Having said that, it's redeemed shortly thereafter with the keelhauling sequence, which is one of the best in the franchise imho.
    GBF wrote: »
    BTW: Am I the only one who sees some similarity between the approaching to the sunk St. Georges and the approaching to the space station in MR.
    Actually, I felt similarities between the sinking of the St. Georges and the sinking of the submarine in the TSWLM PTS. I also felt similarities with the sinking of and dive to the HMS Devonshire in TND.
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