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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Halle overplayed it big time, but I think in retrospect her delivery was suitable for the tone of the film. It was 100% camp. Even Stephens went nuts.

    "Of course you would. My mistake."
    "Of course I want to bloody continue!"
    "Oh, look! Parachutes for the both of us. Whoops. Not any more."

    My point is she wasn't out of place, although I would have preferred if she was a little more subtle.

    Denise was completely a 'take me out of it' character for TWINE, which had some semblance of seriousness to it in comparison.

    Stephens is camp. Berry is shite.

    Should've been the tagline on the poster.

    Ha ha
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    bondjames wrote: »
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    That whole sequence sums up why I've really come to enjoy Die Another Day. So bad it's good, except when it's genuinely good.
    Your words reminded me of another classic from the film @thelivingroyale:

    "I am so good."
    "Especially when you`re bad."

    I agree with your post though. Another classic line during the tsunami disgrace (made all the more enjoyable by Stephens' killer reaction):

    "Hey, boss, he beat your time."

    That's another brilliant bit. Not only does he manage to outrun the giant space lazer but well and truly mugs off the villain in the process. Love it.

    And y'know you're right, that horrible line does sum up why the film itself is so fun. Maybe Tamahori is actually a genius who knew exactly what he was doing all along?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    bondjames wrote: »
    I disagree as well. Onatopp is great fun imho, although I always feel the need to turn the volume down when she's giving it to that Canadian Admiral.

    Your apartment isn t very soundproof?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I disagree as well. Onatopp is great fun imho, although I always feel the need to turn the volume down when she's giving it to that Canadian Admiral.

    Your apartment isn t very soundproof?
    I generally turn the volume up for most films and her yells come in quite a few decibels higher than what has come immediately before so it's an instinctive reaction to get it back to level. I'm ok with the screamers normally and no neighbour has complained (yet).
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    bondjames wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I disagree as well. Onatopp is great fun imho, although I always feel the need to turn the volume down when she's giving it to that Canadian Admiral.

    Your apartment isn t very soundproof?
    I generally turn the volume up for most films and her yells come in quite a few decibels higher than what has come immediately before so it's an instinctive reaction to get it back to level. I'm ok with the screamers normally and no neighbour has complained (yet).

    Its akward to watch with your dad as a 6 year old kid( I would know)
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    edited August 2017 Posts: 984
    @bondjames I have to agree on DAD.

    I can remember sitting in a cinema with my eyes popping out of my head in 2002, squirming at the cheesiness of the dialogue.

    Now rewatching it when one knows what to expect, it actually does have its charms. I would still get rid of the bloody awful surfing, invisible car, and edit some of the dialogue.

    There are some things that still work in its favour though. I actually quite like Graves/Moons plot of wanting to conquer the Koreas. The first half is excellent. The fencing fight is excellent. Brosnan's performance is probably his best, despite some of his lines resembling a mid 80's Schwarznegger effort. And it is, on occasion, spectacular to look at, following the Cubby edict of "Every penny being onscreen".

    Obviously it is never going to be the height of the Bond pantheon, but just relax, leave your brain at the door and it can still be enjoyed.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Obviously it is never going to be the height of the Bond pantheon, but just relax, leave your brain at the door and it can still be enjoyed.
    Precisely @Roadphill and I wasn't kidding before. All this talk has me hankering for a viewing shortly.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    @bondjames I am going through a great Bond rewatch at the moment. No particular order. Started with all the Moore's. FRWL last night I may make DAD the next one.

    On a side note, has anyone else noticed how much Daniel Craig looks like Robert Shaw around FRWL time? Uncanny resemblance.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Roadphill wrote: »
    On a side note, has anyone else noticed how much Daniel Craig looks like Robert Shaw around FRWL time? Uncanny resemblance.
    I'm afraid I did notice it on my last viewing of FRWL, especially when seeing Shaw next to the suave and impeccable Connery. It's the SF PTS suit that reminds me of him, and ironically they gave him that suit to recall Connery in GF (or so I read somewhere).

    Glad to hear about the Bondathon @Roadphill . Enjoy and perhaps we can discuss DAD after a viewing shortly.
  • StrogStrog
    edited August 2017 Posts: 684
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Obviously it is never going to be the height of the Bond pantheon, but just relax, leave your brain at the door and it can still be enjoyed.
    @Roadphill For some reason I can do that with DAF, but I've tried and no matter how many times I revisit DAD I just can't with that film. Despite the first half, and some brief glimpses of quality in the second, the lows are too distractingly low for me.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    @bondjames I shall my friend. @Strog I understand that, I know that myself and @bondjames are in the minority that can get some enjoyment from it.
  • StrogStrog
    Posts: 684
    @Roadphill You may perhaps still be in the minority but it does seem to be getting somewhat of a revival around here, from what I can tell. I'm paranoid I'm missing out. ;)
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    @Strog I think the revival may be in part due to apathy towards the recent direction of the series. If nothing else, at least DAD represents simpler times.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,229
    The_Donald wrote: »
    Part of the problem was the 80's onwards were a lot less classy than the 60's in general.

    Also Moore was really looking his age at that point. He just got away with it in MR but not FYEO.

    I mentioned it before in this thread but in FYEO Bond was depicted as older: he's seen as a grieving widower, he refuses Bibi's advances, he's a mentor to Melina, etc. We are reminded of Moore's age.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Was it a mistake for him to make A view to a Kill, should dalton have gotten that one and then Daltoned it up
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    Was it a mistake for him to make A view to a Kill, should dalton have gotten that one and then Daltoned it up

    As much as I'm always in favor of the lighter approach, AVTAK is near the bottom of my rankings, so I guess a Dalton oriented AVTAK could have been interesting.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    Was it a mistake for him to make A view to a Kill, should dalton have gotten that one and then Daltoned it up
    I think so. Should have gone out on an "All Time High" imho, and I'm a huge Moore fan.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,229
    I actually think AVTAK could not have worked as a movie for a new Bond unless they'd make seriously drastic changes and had made the whole thing completely different than what we got. It was one too many for Moore but as it stands only Moore could be forgiven for it.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    I don't get all the dissapointment forAVTAK, especially considering the grounds on which DAD is appreciated here. Comparing the two: both villains are over the top, but somehow Christopher Walken seems legit. I do like Stephen's Graves, but Walken is just the better psychopath. The plot in DAD is as lazy as can be. In AVTAK Bond at least does some spying. The Bond-girls even out in beauty, but where the one screams you off the screen, the other acts so badly I'd still go for the damsel in distress. At least that's some sort of realistic.

    AVTAK has some proper humour, a plot that is outlandish but holds some water, and some real moments of disbelief and hate (Tibbet's death) fun (the race between Bond and Zorin) and class (the party is way better then the ice palace).

    Would it 've been better with Dalton? Perhaps, I like TLD more then LTK, mainly because it's the darkness of Dalton put in a light film for Moore, which works wonders imo.


  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,229
    I'd take AVTAK over DAD in a heartbeat. But AVTAK would have been a terrible movie for a new Bond.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    My criticisms of AVTAK are more aesthetic. It's like a geezer's road show. Poor stunt work and Sir Rog way past his past due date as OO7 hanging around with other oldies. Cheap looking too, apart from Paris.

    DAD has Brosnan firing on all cylinders and a lot of money up on the screen. It's let down by a bit of overacting from Berry & Stephens & shoddy CGI, but as I've said it fit the tone they were going for, which was to rival/compete with the Austin Powers phenomenon.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    Is that really what they wanted? rival their own parody? I can hardly believe that, makes little sense to mee. If you ask me they were going for the teen audience, minus the 1.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Well it was an anniversary effort so there were definite callbacks to the past. However, tonally, I think they were going for Austin. That was all the rage back then (along with XXX and the like). Keep in mind they probably signed off on the script pre: 911, and then after events took place it was too late to dial it back.

    Their attempt at semi-seriousness (TWINE) failed miserably (I think the rival AP film beat it at the box office, which was the first time a spoof had done that and it wasn't too well received critically) and so they threw all their chips on the table.

    Sadly, they ended up being caught flatfooted because Bourne came out in the same year and showed them there was another way. A way that they had turned their backs on 13 years earlier due to LTK's relative box office failure.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,208
    Happened to listen to the Dr No soundtrack for the first time in many years. It's maybe not as epic as Barry's efforts, but against my expectations I quite liked it. Felt like going on holiday to the Caribbean afterwards.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Happened to listen to the Dr No soundtrack for the first time in many years. It's maybe not as epic as Barry's efforts, but against my expectations I quite liked it. Felt like going on holiday to the Caribbean afterwards.

    I've also come to really appreciate it. Dr. No has one of the most atmospheric soundtracks of all the Bond films.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    bondjames wrote: »
    My criticisms of AVTAK are more aesthetic. It's like a geezer's road show. Poor stunt work and Sir Rog way past his past due date as OO7 hanging around with other oldies. Cheap looking too, apart from Paris.

    DAD has Brosnan firing on all cylinders and a lot of money up on the screen. It's let down by a bit of overacting from Berry & Stephens & shoddy CGI, but as I've said it fit the tone they were going for, which was to rival/compete with the Austin Powers phenomenon.

    In my opinion, AVTAK has several other problems: Tanya Roberts' relative acting strengths are not suitable for the role of Stacey; the horse injection subplot, though engaging, is not properly integrated into the rest of the story and structurally comes across as superfluous; and beyond the stunts, the action sequences leave a great deal to be desired (especially the fire truck chase, and not because of the comedy).

    Definitely, DAD is a comparatively more competent film. What it sets out to do it does better (and no, I don't think it aims particularly low). Mind you, I still prefer AVTAK, because Moore and Walken and Barry, etc. Its premise is more interesting, too, and its second half is more entertaining than DAD's, although both films are less engaging after their halfway point.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,229
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Happened to listen to the Dr No soundtrack for the first time in many years. It's maybe not as epic as Barry's efforts, but against my expectations I quite liked it. Felt like going on holiday to the Caribbean afterwards.

    I never understood why some people dislike that soundtrack.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    Yes. It's not that the soundtrack album is a bad listen; it's that the film score leaves a great deal to be desired.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Yes. It's not that the soundtrack album is a bad listen; it's that the film score leaves a great deal to be desired.

    Aren't half of the songs of the OST not even in the movie?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    bondjames wrote: »

    Their attempt at semi-seriousness (TWINE) failed miserably (I think the rival AP film beat it at the box office, which was the first time a spoof had done that and it wasn't too well received critically) and so they threw all their chips on the table.

    CR beat YOLT in 67.
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