Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Speaking of enjoying MR, I continue to believe that Roger played Bond perfectly in accordance with his source material. People make his performance in MR out to be something like Connery in YOLT or DAF, but I couldn't disagree more. Moore always cared about playing Bond, and he always took the job seriously. It's just in MR, that job involved taking Bond less seriously, so he played Bond as comically invincible to match the OTT tone.

    Skip two years to FYEO, where Bond goes back to basics and has more in line with Fleming's source material, you see Roger playing it more down-to-earth and human. It was really just the nature of the material he was given, which was often campy. But Roger always matched the requirements. To me, that's a good justification for why he's 2nd only to Connery as Bond. Nobody has really matched his diversity in the role. For instance, Pierce Brosnan had little to no variation across his four films even as they got increasingly OTT and campy. So there's some sort of disunity there and I believe it plays into our more negative reception towards his performance.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    I have a strong tolerance to cheesiness in movies, so I can gladly sit through the wacky parts of MR not problem. But if you ignore those elements you're actually left with quite a dull film, so it sits low in my ranking regardless.
  • GBFGBF
    edited December 2017 Posts: 3,197
    I think neither Roger's performance nor Bond in space are problematic. I would even say that these are the better elements of the film together with great set pieces, and one of the series best scores. I also quite like Hugo Drax and his oneliners as well as the more thrilling scenes (PTS, centrifuge, Corinne's death).

    On the other side, MR has so many problems, especially the pointless globe trotting, the boring parts in Brazil, Jaws falling in love, gondola scene. The Bond girls is also relatively boring and has actually no real relevance to the plot. The film can be entertaining but I find it quite boring throughout 70% of its time.

    It will always be somewhere between 18-20 in my ranking. I like the atmosphere, especially the score and the setting in the Third act. It is certainly a memorable and colourfull film but it also has one of the series weaker plots.
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    I think that the most controversial statement that you will ever make is in choosing that particular Felix as your avatar.

    He just happens to look like me. But in his defense, I think he also looks enough like Felix (minus the blonde hair) as he is described in the book to have potentially made a good Leiter.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Speaking of enjoying MR, I continue to believe that Roger played Bond perfectly in accordance with his source material. People make his performance in MR out to be something like Connery in YOLT or DAF, but I couldn't disagree more. Moore always cared about playing Bond, and he always took the job seriously. It's just in MR, that job involved taking Bond less seriously, so he played Bond as comically invincible to match the OTT tone.

    Skip two years to FYEO, where Bond goes back to basics and has more in line with Fleming's source material, you see Roger playing it more down-to-earth and human. It was really just the nature of the material he was given, which was often campy. But Roger always matched the requirements. To me, that's a good justification for why he's 2nd only to Connery as Bond. Nobody has really matched his diversity in the role. For instance, Pierce Brosnan had little to no variation across his four films even as they got increasingly OTT and campy. So there's some sort of disunity there and I believe it plays into our more negative reception towards his performance.
    I'm completely in agreement. Moore delivered a spot on performance for the type of film they were going for.
    W_Glass_90 wrote: »
    This opinion is gonna probably have me crucified by a few people, but I watched Moonraker again, and honestly if you take away Jaws falling in love, the double take pigeon, the Gondola Hovercraft in Venice, and everything in space. It's a watchable film in my opinion. I wouldn't even consider it Moore's "worst" like many claim, especially compared to a film like A View to a Kill, or even as outlandish as Octopussy. It has some pretty dark intense moments that rarely get mentioned such as Corinne Dufour's death from Drax's dobermans, and the centrifuge chamber scene. Could it have been a better film and more closer to novel? Perhaps, but despite that it still has its moments.
    MR definitely has a lot of great moments as you note. I can't objectively rank the film high but I will say I have a blast with it from start to finish whenever I put it in the blu ray player. This is all about outlandish entertainment, blockbuster style. OTT Bond at its best. I don't even mind the pigeon or Jaw's love affair (Dolly is reasonably cute). My biggest peeve with the film is the way Bond gets out of nearly every jam with a fancy gadget. Just when things get tense, that tension is diffused with something from Q (even Drax makes a comment about it after the python encounter). If they'd just let the scenes play out a bit more and allow him to escape with his wits rather than via resorting to some contraption I would rank the film much higher.
  • Posts: 15,115
    Not sure if it's a controversial but Rolls Royce are evil cars in Bond movies. Maybe I should put it in the I never noticed that before thread actually.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Not sure if it's a controversial but Rolls Royce are evil cars in Bond movies. Maybe I should put it in the I never noticed that before thread actually.
    True, and so is Mercedes (particularly black ones, which are connected subliminally with power and a certain historic figure). In fact, I'd say Benz wins it as the villain car in the Bond series.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Kerim Bey had a Rolls Royce, didn t he?
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Kerim Bey had a Rolls Royce, didn t he?

    That's why Grant killed him. One less share.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Kerim Bey had a Rolls Royce, didn t he?

    That's why Grant killed him. One less share.

    As did Zukovsky in TWINE and he took a bullet as well.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    M had a Rolls Royce in the books.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Kerim Bey had a Rolls Royce, didn t he?

    That's why Grant killed him. One less share.

    As did Zukovsky in TWINE and he took a bullet as well.

    Indeed.
  • Posts: 15,115
    Kerim Bey had a Rolls Royce, didn t he?

    An exception. Rolls Royces are featured in GF and SP as the villain's car and that's enough to qualify them evil.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I have commented in here https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/1512/love-a-drive-in-the-country-dont-you-each-bonds-best-bit-of-driving#latest before we get told off for de-railing this thread !!
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Kerim Bey had a Rolls Royce, didn t he?

    An exception. Rolls Royces are featured in GF and SP as the villain's car and that's enough to qualify them evil.

    I believe the one in SP was a direct reference to the one in GF.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2017 Posts: 23,883
    And Mercedes-Benz has been in the following:

    GF (henchman as well Goldfinger himself), OHMSS (henchman as well as Blofeld), FYEO (Loque), OP (Kamal and Orlov both), TND (Carver's men), SP (Lucia, but I'm assuming it's Marco's car).

    Hip and Bond used one too (TMWTGG & SF rental from the airport respectively) but these were exceptions.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Kerim Bey had a Rolls Royce, didn t he?

    An exception. Rolls Royces are featured in GF and SP as the villain's car and that's enough to qualify them evil.

    Then there is AVTAK. Although not the villain s car, bad things happen related to it.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Two controversial opinions on the gunbarrels.
    .I actually like the bullet during the DAD gunbarrel. Didn't see it coming the first time. Just a one time thing.
    .I like the gunbarrel being at the end of QOS. It really shows Bond coming full circle. This makes SF' ending gunbarrel even more infuriating for me lol. The walk is too fast but I love the pose and that Bond walks away. The design isn't anything special but it's not terrible.
  • Posts: 15,115
    bondjames wrote: »
    And Mercedes-Benz has been in the following:

    GF (henchman as well Goldfinger himself), OHMSS (henchman as well as Blofeld), FYEO (Loque), OP (Kamal and Orlov both), TND (Carver's men), SP (Lucia, but I'm assuming it's Marco's car).

    Hip and Bond used one too (TMWTGG & SF rental from the airport respectively) but these were exceptions.

    Ok Mercedes Benz wins as villain's car.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,785
    @Remington for the gunbarrel I agree on DAD--and notice it seems to be the CGI barrel-bullet used in the beginning of the GE titles.

    Also agree on why the QOS gunbarrel placement makes sense (slow him down, though). I'm good with it.

    Acknowledging that, I still think the 2008 film would have been even better received opening with the gunbarrel. It's just such a magic moment unique to Bond films and everyone was waiting for it.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    @Remington for the gunbarrel I agree on DAD--and notice it seems to be the CGI barrel-bullet used in the beginning of the GE titles.

    Also agree on why the QOS gunbarrel placement makes sense (slow him down, though). I'm good with it.

    Acknowledging that, I still think the 2008 film would have been even better received opening with the gunbarrel. It's just such a magic moment unique to Bond films and everyone was waiting for it.

    I've never noticed the GE connection. And I thought I knew everything lol. As for QOS, I can definitely admit the dot opening on the lake shot would have been great.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,114
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Kerim Bey had a Rolls Royce, didn t he?

    An exception. Rolls Royces are featured in GF and SP as the villain's car and that's enough to qualify them evil.

    Then there is AVTAK. Although not the villain s car, bad things happen related to it.

    Bond rents one in LTK too.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    What car did Dominic Greene get chauffeured in in QoS?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    What car did Dominic Greene get chauffeured in in QoS?
    Jaguar XJ8. At the time of filming it was still part of the Ford empire, just before being sold to Tata.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,785
    I was compelled to look that up, @ForYourEyesOnly and @bondjames.

    2000 Daimler Super V8 [X308]imcdb.org/vehicle_190935-Daimler-Super-V8-X308-2000.html
    i190935.jpg

    Wasn't aware of the Daimler-Jaguar association, which is still true here prior to the 2007 purchase of both by (India's) Tata Group.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Thanks @RichardTheBruce . I suspected it might be a Daimler when I made my last post actually, but didn't bother to check.

    Yes, that association was in place for many years. In the UK until 2007/2008 the top of the line fully equipped Jags were branded Daimler I believe, while in the US they were still branded Jags. It was just brand engineering (Daimlers were generally better equipped and had scalloped ridges on the grille). Ultimately when Ford sold Jag to Tata the rights for the Daimler product name reverted to the company 'Daimler' (the company that used to be known as Daimler-Benz and which owns Mercedes). Confusing stuff.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,785
    So I've learned "Daimler" here is pronounced *Jag-U-ar*.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2017 Posts: 23,883
    *DIMLER* is the correct pronunciation but it was called *Daimler* in the UK when I used to live there.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    peter wrote: »
    jez-us, @mattjoes -- PB's neck looks like the skinnier version of Jabba's there, no??

    @peter Pain face acting takes its toll on the body. ;)
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited December 2017 Posts: 8,395
    mattjoes wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    jez-us, @mattjoes -- PB's neck looks like the skinnier version of Jabba's there, no??

    @peter Pain face acting takes its toll on the body. ;)

    Whereas Dan's Pout face acting takes its toll on the soul. Have you seen some of the comments he's made in the press lately?
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