Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • edited December 2017 Posts: 11,189
    In my mind the early 70s films have dated in a BAD way. They look lower budget/low rent, whereas the late 70s films hold up better.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    The 60s films are undeniably the most 'classic'. People had taste then imho. There's also a more formal timeless air to the clothing which is more suited to Bond's larger than life cinematic world. While it's true that the early 70's films are very much of their time, the location work and general colourfulness of the clothing help to give the films a somewhat whimsical air, which I believe suits Bond. I don't get that with the 80s and 90s, which come across a bit pedestrian, bland & forgettable to me. Run of the mill.
  • Posts: 11,189
    bondjames wrote: »
    The 60s films are undeniably the most 'classic'. People had taste then imho. There's also a more formal timeless air to the clothing which is more suited to Bond's larger than life cinematic world. While it's true that the early 70's films are very much of their time, the location work and general colourfulness of the clothing help to give the films a somewhat whimsical air, which I believe suits Bond. I don't get that with the 80s and 90s, which come across a bit pedestrian, bland & forgettable to me. Run of the mill.

    Yes. The 60s films, though dated, have a grandness to them which is lost during most of the subsequent eras. They can't be accused of being TV movies.

    However, I did notice that the early 70s films (particularly LALD and DAF) still had a certain "character" to them - be it the witty dialogue or the often dark humour. Perhaps its for those reasons that they stand out more than the films in the 80s.
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    The 80s and 90s films are dated in a bad way, but the 60s and 70s films are dated in a good way. It has to do with the esthetic senses of the times.

    I agree. After the 60s the 70s is my favorite decade of Bond.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Not sure about that... The 70s marked å considerable drop in quality in my book. Bond became an act of self mockery.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    "Poor George is still getting a hard time, but the more times i see him in this the more i like. He's certainly a more convincing Bond than a certain Mr. Brosnan!!"

    You must give me the name of your Occulist
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    I don't like saying one Bond is more convincing than the other.
    I find all six perfect really.

    Each has put his own style on Bond.

    I couldn't pick favorites. Sure, Lazenby will always hold a special place in my heart because it's OHMSS and he is simply perfect for the film too, I love seeing him, he is an athlete, tall and strong and he's a womanizer, he has the looks for the winter Bond.

    Craig is the nearest thing to Connery. I'm amazed how much potential was actually wasted there. And even so, he's still elevating Quantum Of Solace and SPECTRE quite a bit.

    Moore and Brosnan are the suave, tons of charm, good-looking Bonds with gallons of humor. Brosnan is especially easy to watch, he just looks so damn good in every single scene.

    Dalton is what I would imagine the Bond out of the books. He's kind of the most "boring" of the lot but I can see how this is the version that Fleming described. I could be very wrong, I'm just guessing here.
  • edited December 2017 Posts: 11,189
    to be fair George WAS more of a natural action man than Brosnan. Take the opening shot of Laz running from his car to the sea. That was George, not a double like the opening shot of Bond running in GE.

    Then again George had youth in his favour unlike Brosnan (and Roger in all fairness).

    I've tended to view George as a stuntman trying to be an actor. Yes his line delivery is a problem at times, but he convinces as a "man of action", which is what Bond was meant to be. In fact I'd say he's more convincing as a "man of action" than Dalton too.

    Considering Brosnan was in his early to late 40s when he did Bond I thought he was reasonably athletic, but he didn't have that "trained commando" vibe that Lazenby did.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Physically Lazenby was very convincing in the action stakes. His acting for the most part is fine, but does he really convince you that he's an intelligent spy for MI6...?
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    I don't like saying one Bond is more convincing than the other.
    I find all six perfect really.

    Each has put his own style on Bond.

    I couldn't pick favorites. Sure, Lazenby will always hold a special place in my heart because it's OHMSS and he is simply perfect for the film too, I love seeing him, he is an athlete, tall and strong and he's a womanizer, he has the looks for the winter Bond.

    Craig is the nearest thing to Connery. I'm amazed how much potential was actually wasted there. And even so, he's still elevating Quantum Of Solace and SPECTRE quite a bit.

    Moore and Brosnan are the suave, tons of charm, good-looking Bonds with gallons of humor. Brosnan is especially easy to watch, he just looks so damn good in every single scene.

    Dalton is what I would imagine the Bond out of the books. He's kind of the most "boring" of the lot but I can see how this is the version that Fleming described. I could be very wrong, I'm just guessing here.

    Perfectly said.
  • edited December 2017 Posts: 11,189
    Physically Lazenby was very convincing in the action stakes. His acting for the most part is fine, but does he really convince you that he's an intelligent spy for MI6...?

    Hmm...I'm not sure he convinces me as a man of the world. He's too young. @RC7 once described Laz as having "a aura of simple-mindedness" and I kind of get what he means.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    Pitting OHMSS against FRWL against eachother isn't fair to either film if you ask me. Exactly the reason I've stopped making those lists. For me FRWL is the 'travel Bond', the film doesn't need a villain's lair as it wouldn't suit the story, and the story is fascinating because Bond himself is the worm on the hook. That's why I love the pace of the film beeing not too fast: it helps the suspense as you don't know what the plan is, and neither does Bond.

    OHMSS obviously is the other way around, Bond is going after Blofeld. The pacing thus is different and with a plot set in time, the pace has to be faster then FRWL.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    For me FRWL is the 'travel Bond', the film doesn't need a villain's lair as it wouldn't suit the story, and the story is fascinating because Bond himself is the worm on the hook. .

    Tanya is the worm. Bond is the fish.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    For me FRWL is the 'travel Bond', the film doesn't need a villain's lair as it wouldn't suit the story, and the story is fascinating because Bond himself is the worm on the hook. .

    Tanya is the worm. Bond is the fish.

    From SPECTRE's point of view yes, but from MI6's point of view that's debateable. Anyway, couldn't resist putting the line in. Was watching (parts of )TWINE the other day...
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    For me FRWL is the 'travel Bond', the film doesn't need a villain's lair as it wouldn't suit the story, and the story is fascinating because Bond himself is the worm on the hook. .

    Tanya is the worm. Bond is the fish.

    Anyway, couldn't resist putting the line in..

    As well as the hook and sinker?
  • Posts: 1,917
    Brosnan is especially easy to watch, he just looks so damn good in every single scene.

    Dalton is what I would imagine the Bond out of the books. He's kind of the most "boring" of the lot but I can see how this is the version that Fleming described. I could be very wrong, I'm just guessing here.

    My view is just the opposite. I find Dalton fascinating to watch because he's not the male model type Brosnan is. The best part of watching Dalton is imagining what the man is thinking and his various expressions that portray it.

    Brosnan doesn't give off that vibe for me at all and that's why I've never taken to his Bond the way I have the others. He was the natural successor because he was everybody's idea of what film Bond should be at the time and others ate it up at the time. I didn't share that view then nor do I now.

    Nothing against him, but when people described him as a composite of all the previous actors' strengths, then it's kind of a greatest hits package and nothing original.

    And can you honestly say he looks so damn good in the over exaggerated pain face scenes or in the running scenes?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited December 2017 Posts: 45,489
    And the rest of you who haven t read the books, who do you think is closest to Fleming s Bond?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @Thunderfinger : woody allen
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    peter wrote: »
    @Thunderfinger : woody allen

    Yes, he does capture the nerves and insecurity so often prominent in the books quite well.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    You know that I've maintained since I've been on here that early Roger (Pre-TSWLM), was the closest to Fleming's Bond. In his speech, his demeanor, his under the surface bitterness, his level of sophistication and social deportment; all of that comes into play. Since I started reading the books at the age of 12 (and Moore had only been in the role about a year), Young (relatively) Roger is who I have pictured in my mind's eye.

    But now you are coming around to Woody?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Thank G it's not just me... It's the hair. The glasses. The twitches.

    That's a very dangerous guy.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Controversy. Why not. I can do that ha ha...

    From Russia With Love: A great film, don't get me wrong.

    But....
    Lacks the sets that make DN, GF, TB, YOLT and DAF great.
    Lacks a main villain, no Dr. No, Goldfinger, Largo, Donald Blofeld or Charles Gray Blofeld.
    Lacks a villains lair. There's just...nothing.
    Lacks a great end-game. It just ends with something that you can find in any other Bond film in the middle section. A boat chase.

    I wouldn't go so far to say it's rather boring in places but OHMSS feels like a speeding bullet in comparison.

    It has nothing to do with Connery or the cast, they are all very solid. The story itself is very well written, but it's suspense only, Hitchcock style.
    As I said, the film is great, but I fail to see why everybody seems to have it as their No 1 or close to the top spot.

    I'm overdue for a rewatch, but my current (controversial) impression is that it's lacking a bit of the cinematic Bondian touch, mostly in terms of a sense of spectacle, and especially in the last part of the film-- the climactic scenes. I'm perfectly fine with down-to-earth Bond --I love For Your Eyes Only, The Living Daylights, Licence to Kill, Casino Royale-- but FRWL has a rather anti-climactic ending: the boat scene is not very interesting and the final hotel room fight is something that belongs in your average thriller of the era, not in a Bond film which just demands more. True, Klebb, Kronsteen and Grant aren't your average larger-than-life Bond villains, but I think that's not the point-- Kristatos isn't your average Bond villain either, but he fits FYEO very well and the film feels Bondian because there is a sense of spectacle and high stakes. FRWL has good villains and high stakes, but not enough spectacle. It reminds me of North by Northwest, and Bond films should probably be North by Northwest on steroids. That's my preference, anyway.

    Having said that, FRWL definitely a well-made film, and Kronsteen and Grant make for damn good villains. Klebb is fine too but there's a hint of perverseness to her that I wish had been brought out some more to put her in the same league as her colleagues in crime.
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    BT3366 wrote: »
    And can you honestly say he looks so damn good in the over exaggerated pain face scenes or in the running scenes?

    He runs a good deal in GoldenEye and Tomorrow Never Dies and is in a few quite speedy scenes in TWINE and Die Another Day too and in my opinion he always looks perfect.

    Dalton, Brosnan and Craig are the ones that were doing the most physical demanding stuff.

    Not sure what a pain face means other than the actors have to act. You try to jump and roll from the Millennium Dome (TWINE) or do a free fall on a ladder and then stop abruptly in mid air. It hurts.
    In my book Brosnan looks like he's in pain and I buy it.

    Not sure I buy some of the superhuman efforts that Craig does in CR and especially QoS, may be acted well also, but so very unrealistic it makes me cringe (CR Madagascar, QoS parachute fall, to name two examples.)

    Overall I have no beef with any of the actor's skills. They are all perfect. Cubby and Harry and later Michael and Barbara always chose wisely. And I think the incredible success of the films prove it.
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    I can see and understand better now, why FRWL is as loved as it is.

    And of course it's one of the great Bond films, amongst circa 18, 19 others. Yes I regard at least 18 films as GREAT. And the rest as VERY GOOD (sans QoS).

    To provide context: All six Connery Bonds are in my Top 13, that's almost 50% of it!
    I have them at:
    2. DN
    4. GF
    5. YOLT
    8. DAF
    12. TB
    13. FRWL
    and I even think TB and FRWL could go up in my ranking once I've seen all of the films again. Doing a Bondathon currently.
  • Lazenby and the dubbed one liners are flaws in OHMSS, but the virtues more than make up for it and make it still the best Bond film ever for me. FRWL probably has nothing wrong with it, but doesn't quite reach the highs of OHMSS so I would put it second.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    CountJohn wrote: »
    Lazenby and the dubbed one liners are flaws in OHMSS, but the virtues more than make up for it and make it still the best Bond film ever for me. FRWL probably has nothing wrong with it, but doesn't quite reach the highs of OHMSS so I would put it second.

    I think what bugs me the most about the dubbing is how obvious it is - I could eventually forgive it if it was something like the words not matching the lips, but the janky audio distortion just screams "What you're hearing was recorded elsewhere!"
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,584
    Tactically adjusted to favor me
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited December 2017 Posts: 8,253
    I can see and understand better now, why FRWL is as loved as it is.

    And of course it's one of the great Bond films, amongst circa 18, 19 others. Yes I regard at least 18 films as GREAT. And the rest as VERY GOOD (sans QoS).

    To provide context: All six Connery Bonds are in my Top 13, that's almost 50% of it!
    I have them at:
    2. DN
    4. GF
    5. YOLT
    8. DAF
    12. TB
    13. FRWL
    and I even think TB and FRWL could go up in my ranking once I've seen all of the films again. Doing a Bondathon currently.

    We need to talk young man! QoS is one of the best Bond films made! The atmosphere, Bond's devotion to his duty, the misleading by the villain's organisation and most importantly the fact that the villain is just a puppet of a darker force is all classic Fleming!
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I can see and understand better now, why FRWL is as loved as it is.

    And of course it's one of the great Bond films, amongst circa 18, 19 others. Yes I regard at least 18 films as GREAT. And the rest as VERY GOOD (sans QoS).

    To provide context: All six Connery Bonds are in my Top 13, that's almost 50% of it!
    I have them at:
    2. DN
    4. GF
    5. YOLT
    8. DAF
    12. TB
    13. FRWL
    and I even think TB and FRWL could go up in my ranking once I've seen all of the films again. Doing a Bondathon currently.

    We need to talk young man! QoS is one of the best Bond films made! The atmosphere, Bond's devotion to his duty, the misleading by the villain's organisation and most importantly the fact that the villain is just a puppet of a darker force is all classic Fleming!

    Mhmm, that’s one of the few films that just gets better and better every time I see it. It feels like an epic when you watch it, the film is just riveting.
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    Interesting @JamesBondKenya

    I love old-school directing and editing.
    QoS is a mess, beautifully shot perhaps but butchered through shaky camera work and stupid editing that really no one can find a joy to watch?? It's beyond me.

    There is a lot to QoS I like, but the worst action scenes in Bond really tamper with my enjoyment to watch it. Not even the engaging brilliant score of David Arnold saves the bad CGI loaded, badly done action in QoS.
    At least there is a good middle section when the editor obviously was on his day off.

    I may warm up to the film once I have learned to ignore the bad job done. Mathis and Camille are so great and I love Felix Leiter in this, totally.
    Daniel Craig is completely wasted, he has such talent and he shined in CR. Shame because Craig was at his prime physically and looks wise in QoS.

    I just wish the first 20 or so minutes were not so badly done. Same for the bloody parachute sequence, I want to throw up rather than watching this scene again.

    How's that for controversy ha ha...
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