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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Sorry to interrupt,and for my ignorance, but what does The Netherlands have to do with any of that?
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,328
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Sorry to interrupt,and for my ignorance, but what does The Netherlands have to do with any of that?

    Thank you Baldrick......
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I am the only one not getting the stupid joke?
    TheBaldrick_2746.png
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,328
    a8ea2e83b22373ce9d94ff89e4a4628d.jpg
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    OK, you re stoned.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I don t care about apocastrophes. We don t use them where I am from.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Gard your own as.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    From you? I know.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,164
    Here's one that often ruffles a few feathers.
    I really don't like the character of Dr.Kaufman in TND. The whole scene is terrible.
    I find him to be an idiot rather than a dangerous, expert killer. I realise my view is not shared by 99.9% of the forum.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    An interesting subject, that of Dr. Kaufman. In the film, judging by the serious tone of the scene he is in, Kaufman is perhaps intended to be a "dangerous, expert killer" (and slightly eccentric, since they cast Schiavelli), and while he does come across as quirky, he doesn't feel threatening and in fact feels potentially funny (not unlike Carver and Stamper). That said, I enjoy the character for what he is, and the scene, whether by accident or design, works as a generally serious one that nevertheless doesn't forget it's in a film that aims to be balls-out entertainment.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Shoot me, I’m with @Benny and have always hated that scene.

    I wasn’t scared by Kaufman, although he was a Master Sadist— or so he told us. To me, he was a caricature out of some other film.

    I understand many love him and the scene. I know now that I will never appreciate this scene, and I never will. I accept that majority rules and resign that I must have missed something...
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,359
    Kaufman's the highlight of a dreary movie.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    @Birdleson , I love all the characters you mentioned— but where Klebb and Grant types were grounded, the outlandish nature of Oddjob and Jaws were also grounded in the tone of the films they were in; Kaufman to me, came off as a buffoon in a fairly serious sequence of scenes.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,358
    Blame Stamper for getting in his ear. ;)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    You may be right @Murdock ; that could have been a turning point for me: the SQUEALS of THE EARPIECE, could be where a fairly serious scene turned into a cartoon.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,359
    It's interesting how Bond and the Cold War are tied together in the media, because only a few films delve into the subject with any depth (FRWL, YOLT, TSWLM, FYEO, OP, TLD, GE).
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    And, as an aside, I thought Pierce was great in this scene, but he was in a serious film while Kaufman was in a cartoon.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Yes, I have a problem with Carver too @Birdleson . I think I have a feeling that this film is tonally all over the place. A perfect example is this scene with Kaufman: Pierce plays serious;the sadist doctor is a cartoon, and; Bond’s dead lover basically lies between them. Let’s just say I like how Brosnan played this and found Kaufman belonged in a Road Runner cartoon.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    echo wrote: »
    Kaufman's the highlight of a dreary movie.

    I agree, although Carver is pretty good as well.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,516
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I guess that I don't find that film all that serious. Carver is an operatic arch -villain, and better for it. It's light-hearted, relatively mindless fare. Again, to the film's benefit.

    I agree, it’s one of the more light-hearted modern entries, and I appreciate it for that. Still not one of the greatest, but I’ve come to like it more over time.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Kaulfman was a caricature, but an entertaining one to me. And the scene was still tense.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited January 2018 Posts: 15,220
    echo wrote: »
    Kaufman's the highlight of a dreary movie.

    Agree. Without him there's not that much to like of TND. Although I would say my appreciation of Kaufman would change had he been in a different Bond movie.

    My controversial opinion: I'm with Carver when he mocks Wai Lin's Kung Fu.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Technically Kaufmann was a buffoon. Comic relief. He had a clear shot at Bond, but rather than taking it chose to spend a few minutes giving a self aggrandizing sermon, which ultimately wasted time and gave Bond an opportunity to kill him.

    I think they may have been attempting to evoke the classic Grant/Bond exchange in the train cabin. A battle of wills with Bond on the ropes. The difference is that the earlier sequence was nicely built up over time. We knew of Grant's capabilities as we had seen him being lethal throughout the film. Moreover, the confrontation was visceral and bloody. Here we knew Kaufmann killed an unarmed frightened woman and that's about it. Hardly something to be proud of.

    Despite this, that scene is a highlight of the film for me. This is a perfect example of performances, atmosphere, score and positioning withing the narrative creating an impact. Brosnan & Schiavelli are excellent in the scene and that's what elevates it from the mundane which surrounds it. Moreover, it's a rare moment when this action packed film stops to breathe.
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    edited January 2018 Posts: 2,005
    Dr. Kaufmann resembles the cliché German overly correct public servant.
    But he is an assassin.
    The idea alone is hilarious and ingenious.
    And the dialogue is a thing of beauty.

    Schiavelli certainly is one of the most interesting actors ever to appear in a Bond movie.

    Personally I view this scene as an absolute highlight not only in the film itself but in Bond history. Like Lazar in TMWTGG for instance (totally different of course, just saying).

    One scene, highly effective, with a brilliant actor.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,181
    Ludovico wrote: »
    My controversial opinion: I'm with Carver when he mocks Wai Lin's Kung Fu.

    Oh, that bit makes me really cross! Because it's the kind of stupid trick people pull when I tell them I do karate.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    My controversial opinion: I'm with Carver when he mocks Wai Lin's Kung Fu.
    Another highlight of the film, and definitely the best part of the awful stealth boat climax, along with the part where Bond uses a decoy to trick Stamper into thinking he fell overboard.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    We could really use another villain like Elliot Carver. Someone said, quite accurately in my view, that Pryce plays him "just the right side of send-up." He helps to make the film great fun but is still a legitimate bad guy. Not unlike Dr. Kaufman. But if they had been pushed just a bit further into comedy, the characters (and the film) wouldn't have worked.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    mattjoes wrote: »
    We could really use another villain like Elliot Carver. Someone said, quite accurately in my view, that Pryce plays him "just the right side of send-up." He helps to make the film great fun but is still a legitimate bad guy. Not unlike Dr. Kaufman. But if they had been pushed just a bit further into comedy, the characters (and the film) wouldn't have worked.
    I thought they gave us that with Silva though. He was a definite throwback to a bit of camp combined with lethality.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    I'd agree Silva was a step in that direction, but falls short of someone like Carver. Of course, that also has do with the style and tone the film aims for. Skyfall isn't Tomorrow Never Dies.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    TND would need more of Kaufman and less of Stamper...
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