Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,584
    AVTAK is a guilty pleasure for me. Not the best, but one I watch more than others. Maybe because I love watching AARP Bond.
  • Posts: 16,162
    I figured I'd try to steer the conversation away from TSWLM as it was getting slightly thrashed.

    Interestingly AVTAK used to be my least favorite film in the series until TND, TWINE, then finally DAD. With QOS and SP it's almost a given now that in this day and age it's just as easy to have a Bond film that competes for the "worst film in the series" title.

    At least CR initially brought back the hope that the series was going to be on the right track.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    AVTAK is near the bottom along with TND, TWINE, DAD & SP for me. I've tried to appreciate it like other viewers apparently have done recently, but I'm afraid it doesn't do anything for me. Rog is trying, but he's not credible due to age and there's something a bit tired and 'tv-like' about it in places (particularly in San Fran, which is unforgivable given how beautiful that city is).
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    edited February 2018 Posts: 4,584
    That's the issue I have with Glen. TLD and OP are some great films when it comes to locales and filming. But the second half of AVTAK and LTK are too dull and t.v. like
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    I wouldn't call the mine sequence and the Golden Gate bridge fight TV-like. Also the burning city hall and the fire truck chase - as silly as the latter is - are technically fine (except for the unnecessary close-ups of Sir Roger).

    I find that the Glen films look much more realistic than CGI comodo dragons, annoying colour filters or other artificial stuff which we have seen in the last films.
  • Posts: 19,339
    That's the issue I have with Glen. TLD and OP are some great films when it comes to locales and filming. But the second half of AVTAK and LTK are too dull and t.v. like

    I wouldn't call the 2nd half of LTK dull and TV like,quite the opposite.

  • Posts: 7,417
    LTK second half dull? It has the most exciting finish since OHMSS and Glen builds that brilliantly from when Bond puts his plan into place when he plants Sanchez money on Krests boat!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    GBF wrote: »
    I wouldn't call the mine sequence and the Golden Gate bridge fight TV-like. Also the burning city hall and the fire truck chase - as silly as the latter is - are technically fine (except for the unnecessary close-ups of Sir Roger).
    The City Hall sequence in particular is what I'm referring to as 'tv like'. Especially inside the filing room when Bond is confronted by May Day and Zorin. That definitely had a serial like quality to it. The fire truck chase didn't work for me either. Nothing wrong with the concept, but the execution wasn't thrilling, which is unfortunate because they had some decent conceptual ideas there (including the cars sliding back down the ramp).

    With respect to San Francisco, I still contend that for a Bond film, that location was used extremely poorly. I have seen it done much better in several other films before and after, and that shouldn't happen. Bond films must make the most out of their locations. There wasn't any attempt to convey atmosphere.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 19,339
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    LTK second half dull? It has the most exciting finish since OHMSS and Glen builds that brilliantly from when Bond puts his plan into place when he plants Sanchez money on Krests boat!

    Great minds think alike @Mathis1 ,I just beat you to it but said exactly the same thing ;)

  • Posts: 7,417
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    LTK second half dull? It has the most exciting finish since OHMSS and Glen builds that brilliantly from when Bond puts his plan into place when he plants Sanchez money on Krests boat!

    Great minds think alike @Mathis1 ,I just beat you to it but said exactly the same thing ;)

    Nice one, now if I could just get you to warm a little towards Kara and we be flying!
  • Posts: 19,339
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    LTK second half dull? It has the most exciting finish since OHMSS and Glen builds that brilliantly from when Bond puts his plan into place when he plants Sanchez money on Krests boat!

    Great minds think alike @Mathis1 ,I just beat you to it but said exactly the same thing ;)

    Nice one, now if I could just get you to warm a little towards Kara and we be flying!

    Bloody hell,good luck with that mission haha !!

  • Posts: 7,417
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    LTK second half dull? It has the most exciting finish since OHMSS and Glen builds that brilliantly from when Bond puts his plan into place when he plants Sanchez money on Krests boat!

    Great minds think alike @Mathis1 ,I just beat you to it but said exactly the same thing ;)

    Nice one, now if I could just get you to warm a little towards Kara and we be flying!

    Bloody hell,good luck with that mission haha !!

    Mission Very Impossible?
  • Posts: 19,339
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    LTK second half dull? It has the most exciting finish since OHMSS and Glen builds that brilliantly from when Bond puts his plan into place when he plants Sanchez money on Krests boat!

    Great minds think alike @Mathis1 ,I just beat you to it but said exactly the same thing ;)

    Nice one, now if I could just get you to warm a little towards Kara and we be flying!

    Bloody hell,good luck with that mission haha !!

    Mission Very Impossible?

    Mission totally,definitely impossible !

  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    bondjames wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    I wouldn't call the mine sequence and the Golden Gate bridge fight TV-like. Also the burning city hall and the fire truck chase - as silly as the latter is - are technically fine (except for the unnecessary close-ups of Sir Roger).
    The City Hall sequence in particular is what I'm referring to as 'tv like'. Especially inside the filing room when Bond is confronted by May Day and Zorin. That definitely had a serial like quality to it. The fire truck chase didn't work for me either. Nothing wrong with the concept, but the execution wasn't thrilling, which is unfortunate because they had some decent conceptual ideas there (including the cars sliding back down the ramp).

    I am not sure if I really want that. In some film, it really feels as if Bond is more like tour guide who randomly walks around some exotic holiday locations. YOLT comes to mind where you get the impression that half of the film is about Japan and Japanese stereotypes. I guess that locations are often not used perfectly in a Bond film. As a German, I find that Hamburg is completely underused in TND. At least, AVTAK used some of the typical elements of the San Francisco and the bay area (earth quakes, GG bridge, city hall, Japan town, Silicon Valley). At least one can't say that the location is exchangable like it is in many other Bond films.

    With respect to San Francisco, I still contend that for a Bond film, that location was used extremely poorly. I have seen it done much better in several other films before and after, and that shouldn't happen. Bond films must make the most out of their locations. There wasn't any attempt to convey atmosphere.

    I am not sure if I really want that. In some film, it really feels as if Bond is more like a tour guide who randomly walks around some exotic holiday locations. YOLT comes to mind where you get the impression that half of the film is about teeling how interesting Japan and Japanese culture is. However, I agree that locations should always create an atmosphere. But I would not say that Bond films are always better than other films in this regard. Just think of Spectre where Bond does not interact with any locals. As a German, I also find that Hamburg is completely underused in TND. At least, AVTAK used some of the typical elements of the San Francisco and the Bay Area (earth quakes, GG bridge, city hall, Japan town, Silicon Valley). At least one can't say that the location is exchangable like it is in many other Bond films.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    GBF wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    I wouldn't call the mine sequence and the Golden Gate bridge fight TV-like. Also the burning city hall and the fire truck chase - as silly as the latter is - are technically fine (except for the unnecessary close-ups of Sir Roger).
    The City Hall sequence in particular is what I'm referring to as 'tv like'. Especially inside the filing room when Bond is confronted by May Day and Zorin. That definitely had a serial like quality to it. The fire truck chase didn't work for me either. Nothing wrong with the concept, but the execution wasn't thrilling, which is unfortunate because they had some decent conceptual ideas there (including the cars sliding back down the ramp).

    I am not sure if I really want that. In some film, it really feels as if Bond is more like tour guide who randomly walks around some exotic holiday locations. YOLT comes to mind where you get the impression that half of the film is about Japan and Japanese stereotypes. I guess that locations are often not used perfectly in a Bond film. As a German, I find that Hamburg is completely underused in TND. At least, AVTAK used some of the typical elements of the San Francisco and the bay area (earth quakes, GG bridge, city hall, Japan town, Silicon Valley). At least one can't say that the location is exchangable like it is in many other Bond films.

    With respect to San Francisco, I still contend that for a Bond film, that location was used extremely poorly. I have seen it done much better in several other films before and after, and that shouldn't happen. Bond films must make the most out of their locations. There wasn't any attempt to convey atmosphere.

    I am not sure if I really want that. In some film, it really feels as if Bond is more like a tour guide who randomly walks around some exotic holiday locations. YOLT comes to mind where you get the impression that half of the film is about teeling how interesting Japan and Japanese culture is. However, I agree that locations should always create an atmosphere. But I would not say that Bond films are always better than other films in this regard. Just think of Spectre where Bond does not interact with any locals. As a German, I also find that Hamburg is completely underused in TND. At least, AVTAK used some of the typical elements of the San Francisco and the Bay Area (earth quakes, GG bridge, city hall, Japan town, Silicon Valley). At least one can't say that the location is exchangable like it is in many other Bond films.
    Fair points on the use of locations in TND and SP vs. AVTAK. I agree.

    My only point is that San Francisco is a wonderfully scenic city and I feel that so much more could and should have been done with that location in the film. Films like Vertigo, Jade, The Rock, Basic Instinct, Bullitt etc. really do a better job of it, and that's just to name a few.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,584
    Poor choice of words on my part. The second half is fine, the Key West scenes feel t.v. like to me
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 17,753
    The mention of Bullitt made it impossible not to watch that car chase scene again. Lovely stuff!

    Only the first part, this.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited February 2018 Posts: 7,114
    Poor choice of words on my part. The second half is fine, the Key West scenes feel t.v. like to me

    I can relate to that unfortunately. That’s why I rated it 9 instead of 10 out of 10 after my latest rewatch. Except for that though, I can’t think of anything I didn’t like about that film, especially the second part is exceptionally strong. LTK really ends on a high note with the truck chase.
  • Posts: 15,115
    I really like the first few minutes of AVTAK, in spite of a few silly bits. It's when it goes to the US that it all goes down. It's one of the most frustrating Bond movies.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
    bondjames wrote: »
    My only point is that San Francisco is a wonderfully scenic city and I feel that so much more could and should have been done with that location in the film. Films like Vertigo, Jade, The Rock, Basic Instinct, Bullitt etc. really do a better job of it, and that's just to name a few.

    Herbie Rides Again.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 17,753
    I just enjoy AVTAK when I see it. Can easily see past it's flaws and have a good time. Even Stacey shouting "Jaaaaames!" more than once, doesn't bother me.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    bondjames wrote: »
    AVTAK is near the bottom along with TND, TWINE, DAD & SP for me. I've tried to appreciate it like other viewers apparently have done recently, but I'm afraid it doesn't do anything for me. Rog is trying, but he's not credible due to age and there's something a bit tired and 'tv-like' about it in places (particularly in San Fran, which is unforgivable given how beautiful that city is).
    If you swapped SP for GE, I would agree with you.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    @bondjames

    You are right that other films make much more out of San Francisco as a location. But I guess that chosing SF as a location also raises expectations which makes it easier to disappoint.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    GBF wrote: »
    @bondjames

    You are right that other films make much more out of San Francisco as a location. But I guess that chosing SF as a location also raises expectations which makes it easier to disappoint.

    The other SF was a better used location, but that may have to do with Deakins most of all.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    A
    I just enjoy AVTAK when I see it. Can easily see past it's flaws and have a good time.
    Exactly - I can easily look past Roger‘s age and just enjoy this old school 007 adventure. It‘s just fun and the move will never be rated (by me) like GF, TB, CR ... but it‘s a good fun ride.
  • Posts: 7,417
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I really like the first few minutes of AVTAK, in spite of a few silly bits. It's when it goes to the US that it all goes down. It's one of the most frustrating Bond movies.

    Frustrating is a good word for AVTAK!. It had a good Story, great villain and henchwoman, and a well staged finale. But the humour ruins a lot of scenes, it also needed tightening up of its story (the Fiona Fullerton segment should have been cut) and the action scenes are just not memorable enough!
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 17,753
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    A
    I just enjoy AVTAK when I see it. Can easily see past it's flaws and have a good time.
    Exactly - I can easily look past Roger‘s age and just enjoy this old school 007 adventure. It‘s just fun and the move will never be rated (by me) like GF, TB, CR ... but it‘s a good fun ride.

    It's a fun ride, for sure. A very rewatchable fun ride, also!
    Goes in that DAF category.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    DAF is above YOLT in my ranking. TWINE and DAD just barely top SF for me as well. Enjoy all three. Lots of similarities. Controversial opinion?
  • Posts: 12,466
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    LTK second half dull? It has the most exciting finish since OHMSS and Glen builds that brilliantly from when Bond puts his plan into place when he plants Sanchez money on Krests boat!

    I'm with you. LTK has one of the best second halves of any Bond film (most usually have stronger first halves it seems like). As a whole, it's one of the most underrated and exciting Bond films.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    I enjoy AVTAK more than TSWLM because Christopher Walken. Simple as that.
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