Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 15,226
    Charles Gray nailed the comedic Blofeld.

    I sort of agree but I don't think there should have been a comedic Blofeld.
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I find the use of Blofeld's cat in SP the best use of his pet since FRWL.

    I love the use of the cat in SP; it’s one of the film’s best touches easily. I like the cat in all the films, but particularly FRWL, YOLT, FYEO, and SP.

    I love TB but never understood what the cat was doing there except for the meta reason that Blofeld needed to be identified. I guess some CEOs bring their dogs at work (it has been the case in my current job and my last one) so why not a cat. In OHMSS he seriously was wasted. In SP it's just a really nice nod.
  • edited March 2018 Posts: 11,189
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I think the GE tank chase works for the most part. It's fun.....but pales in comparison to the legend that is the firetruck chase in AVTAK.

    ooo, now this I can't agree on.

    I always find the fire engine scene in AVTAK painful. Moore groans as he's hanging on the back of that ladder has to be his lowest point as Bond.

    I always enjoy the GE tank chase.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Charles Gray nailed the comedic Blofeld.

    He certainly was the most charismatic Blofeld. For each viewing of DAF he's getting closer to equal Savalas, in fact. It's just the way Gray and Connery suited each other, that makes DAF so enjoyable.
    He's the visible actor I most associate with Blofeld to this day, and also agree that his interactions with Connery were top notch. In fact, I'd go so far as to say they are the best of the Blofeld/Bond discussions.
  • edited March 2018 Posts: 12,837
    bondjames wrote: »
    Charles Gray nailed the comedic Blofeld.

    He certainly was the most charismatic Blofeld. For each viewing of DAF he's getting closer to equal Savalas, in fact. It's just the way Gray and Connery suited each other, that makes DAF so enjoyable.
    He's the visible actor I most associate with Blofeld to this day, and also agree that his interactions with Connery were top notch. In fact, I'd go so far as to say they are the best of the Blofeld/Bond discussions.

    I actually really don't like the way they interact. There's barely any animosity at all, they're more like friendly rivals when (even ignoring that he murdered his wife in the last film) he's supposed to be Bond's arch enemy. And it's part of what makes the whole finale feel really low stakes to me imo. There's no sense of danger there whatsoever.

    I think they misunderstood whole polite/gentlemanly thing between Bond and the villain. It's meant to be sort of a front hiding how much they actually want to get the other imo. I think the Moore movies did this very well, and so did most of the Connerys. But in DAF it genuinely seems like it's just a nice friendly competition between them. Also doesn't help that the "why doesn't he just shoot him" factor is at an all time high in that film.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2018 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Charles Gray nailed the comedic Blofeld.

    He certainly was the most charismatic Blofeld. For each viewing of DAF he's getting closer to equal Savalas, in fact. It's just the way Gray and Connery suited each other, that makes DAF so enjoyable.
    He's the visible actor I most associate with Blofeld to this day, and also agree that his interactions with Connery were top notch. In fact, I'd go so far as to say they are the best of the Blofeld/Bond discussions.

    I actually really don't like the way they interact. There's barely any animosity at all, they're more like friendly rivals when (even ignoring that he murdered his wife in the last film) he's supposed to be Bond's arch enemy. And it's part of what makes the whole finale feel really low stakes to me imo. There's no sense of danger there whatsoever.

    I think they misunderstood whole polite/gentlemanly thing between Bond and the villain. It's meant to be sort of a front hiding how much they actually want to get the other imo. I think the Moore movies did this very well, and so did most of the Connerys. But in DAF it genuinely seems like it's just a nice friendly competition between them. Also doesn't help that the "why doesn't he just shoot him" factor is at an all time high in that film.
    That's a fair point. Bond killed two of his doubles, which he had probably spent quite a bit of time and effort creating, and at least in the 2nd instance (at Whyte's Penthouse) he didn't put a bullet through his head even though he had him dead in his sights.

    Still, despite this I quite like the back and forth between them. It is an almost tepid rivalry as you note, but it's in tune with the tone of the film, which is overall quite camp.

    If one views DAF with a memory of OHMSS, then I can appreciate that it's going to be very disappointing.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    I love Bond and Blofeld's interactions in DAF. There is not much sense of danger behind their politeness, but their encounters do convey the amusing thought that both of them have been in this exact same situation several times before, and have grown accostumed to each other's presence. It's two old pros playing a game that by now has become second nature. Having said that, the cordiality between Bond and Blofeld does pay off in other ways. In both scenes in which Bond kills one of Blofeld's doubles, we have these jarring changes of tone that work precisely because of Bond and Blofeld's politeness. Also, in a more general sense, the Bond/Blofeld relationship stands in contrast against plenty of DAF's sinister sheanigans-- dentists getting bitten by the bug, old ladies getting drowned, corpses being used to smuggle diamonds, people almost getting cremated, young ladies getting drowned, that sort of thing. That contrast helps to enhance the black comedy tone of the film.
  • Posts: 15,226
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Charles Gray nailed the comedic Blofeld.

    He certainly was the most charismatic Blofeld. For each viewing of DAF he's getting closer to equal Savalas, in fact. It's just the way Gray and Connery suited each other, that makes DAF so enjoyable.
    He's the visible actor I most associate with Blofeld to this day, and also agree that his interactions with Connery were top notch. In fact, I'd go so far as to say they are the best of the Blofeld/Bond discussions.

    I actually really don't like the way they interact. There's barely any animosity at all, they're more like friendly rivals when (even ignoring that he murdered his wife in the last film) he's supposed to be Bond's arch enemy. And it's part of what makes the whole finale feel really low stakes to me imo. There's no sense of danger there whatsoever.

    I think they misunderstood whole polite/gentlemanly thing between Bond and the villain. It's meant to be sort of a front hiding how much they actually want to get the other imo. I think the Moore movies did this very well, and so did most of the Connerys. But in DAF it genuinely seems like it's just a nice friendly competition between them. Also doesn't help that the "why doesn't he just shoot him" factor is at an all time high in that film.
    That's a fair point. Bond killed two of his doubles, which he had probably spent quite a bit of time and effort creating, and at least in the 2nd instance (at Whyte's Penthouse) he didn't put a bullet through his head even though he had him dead in his sights.

    Still, despite this I quite like the back and forth between them. It is an almost tepid rivalry as you note, but it's in tune with the tone of the film, which is overall quite camp.

    If one views DAF with a memory of OHMSS, then I can appreciate that it's going to be very disappointing.

    The PTS and the rest of DAF seem to be two completely different movie. In one Bond is out for revenge, relentless determined, then in the other he's like back from a long holiday.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Charles Gray nailed the comedic Blofeld.

    He certainly was the most charismatic Blofeld. For each viewing of DAF he's getting closer to equal Savalas, in fact. It's just the way Gray and Connery suited each other, that makes DAF so enjoyable.
    He's the visible actor I most associate with Blofeld to this day, and also agree that his interactions with Connery were top notch. In fact, I'd go so far as to say they are the best of the Blofeld/Bond discussions.

    I actually really don't like the way they interact. There's barely any animosity at all, they're more like friendly rivals when (even ignoring that he murdered his wife in the last film) he's supposed to be Bond's arch enemy. And it's part of what makes the whole finale feel really low stakes to me imo. There's no sense of danger there whatsoever.

    I think they misunderstood whole polite/gentlemanly thing between Bond and the villain. It's meant to be sort of a front hiding how much they actually want to get the other imo. I think the Moore movies did this very well, and so did most of the Connerys. But in DAF it genuinely seems like it's just a nice friendly competition between them. Also doesn't help that the "why doesn't he just shoot him" factor is at an all time high in that film.
    That's a fair point. Bond killed two of his doubles, which he had probably spent quite a bit of time and effort creating, and at least in the 2nd instance (at Whyte's Penthouse) he didn't put a bullet through his head even though he had him dead in his sights.

    Still, despite this I quite like the back and forth between them. It is an almost tepid rivalry as you note, but it's in tune with the tone of the film, which is overall quite camp.

    If one views DAF with a memory of OHMSS, then I can appreciate that it's going to be very disappointing.

    The PTS and the rest of DAF seem to be two completely different movie. In one Bond is out for revenge, relentless determined, then in the other he's like back from a long holiday.
    True. I think they wanted to move on from the OHMSS reboot as quickly as possible and get back to a lighter tone.

    Bond thought he'd killed Blofeld in the PTS anyway, and that allowed him (and the film makers) to reset and move forward after that. When he finds out he's alive later enough time has passed so that even though it's still personal, it's not so emotional.
  • Posts: 12,837
    I just think that if that's the route they wanted to take then Blofeld shouldn't have been the main villain. Kill him off in the PTS (or don't bother mentioning him at all) then move on. It was like they didn't want to address OHMSS but at the same time couldn't be arsed to come up with a new bad guy.
  • edited March 2018 Posts: 684
    I just think that if that's the route they wanted to take then Blofeld shouldn't have been the main villain. Kill him off in the PTS (or don't bother mentioning him at all) then move on. It was like they didn't want to address OHMSS but at the same time couldn't be arsed to come up with a new bad guy.
    I've not thought about that before. The only thing that comes to mind is that they must have wanted to keep the 'Whyte is not Whyte' reveal, and to do that they would need a familiar face to make it work.
  • Posts: 15,226
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Charles Gray nailed the comedic Blofeld.

    He certainly was the most charismatic Blofeld. For each viewing of DAF he's getting closer to equal Savalas, in fact. It's just the way Gray and Connery suited each other, that makes DAF so enjoyable.
    He's the visible actor I most associate with Blofeld to this day, and also agree that his interactions with Connery were top notch. In fact, I'd go so far as to say they are the best of the Blofeld/Bond discussions.

    I actually really don't like the way they interact. There's barely any animosity at all, they're more like friendly rivals when (even ignoring that he murdered his wife in the last film) he's supposed to be Bond's arch enemy. And it's part of what makes the whole finale feel really low stakes to me imo. There's no sense of danger there whatsoever.

    I think they misunderstood whole polite/gentlemanly thing between Bond and the villain. It's meant to be sort of a front hiding how much they actually want to get the other imo. I think the Moore movies did this very well, and so did most of the Connerys. But in DAF it genuinely seems like it's just a nice friendly competition between them. Also doesn't help that the "why doesn't he just shoot him" factor is at an all time high in that film.
    That's a fair point. Bond killed two of his doubles, which he had probably spent quite a bit of time and effort creating, and at least in the 2nd instance (at Whyte's Penthouse) he didn't put a bullet through his head even though he had him dead in his sights.

    Still, despite this I quite like the back and forth between them. It is an almost tepid rivalry as you note, but it's in tune with the tone of the film, which is overall quite camp.

    If one views DAF with a memory of OHMSS, then I can appreciate that it's going to be very disappointing.

    The PTS and the rest of DAF seem to be two completely different movie. In one Bond is out for revenge, relentless determined, then in the other he's like back from a long holiday.
    True. I think they wanted to move on from the OHMSS reboot as quickly as possible and get back to a lighter tone.

    Bond thought he'd killed Blofeld in the PTS anyway, and that allowed him (and the film makers) to reset and move forward after that. When he finds out he's alive later enough time has passed so that even though it's still personal, it's not so emotional.

    That doesn't really work though. "So the international terrorist who murdered my bride and one true love on our wedding day escaped death again and fooled me at the same time, making my whole hunt for him for personal vendetta pointless? Well, can't help it, can't help it. And what have you been up to Blofeld you old bastard?"
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Charles Gray nailed the comedic Blofeld.

    He certainly was the most charismatic Blofeld. For each viewing of DAF he's getting closer to equal Savalas, in fact. It's just the way Gray and Connery suited each other, that makes DAF so enjoyable.
    He's the visible actor I most associate with Blofeld to this day, and also agree that his interactions with Connery were top notch. In fact, I'd go so far as to say they are the best of the Blofeld/Bond discussions.

    I actually really don't like the way they interact. There's barely any animosity at all, they're more like friendly rivals when (even ignoring that he murdered his wife in the last film) he's supposed to be Bond's arch enemy. And it's part of what makes the whole finale feel really low stakes to me imo. There's no sense of danger there whatsoever.

    I think they misunderstood whole polite/gentlemanly thing between Bond and the villain. It's meant to be sort of a front hiding how much they actually want to get the other imo. I think the Moore movies did this very well, and so did most of the Connerys. But in DAF it genuinely seems like it's just a nice friendly competition between them. Also doesn't help that the "why doesn't he just shoot him" factor is at an all time high in that film.
    That's a fair point. Bond killed two of his doubles, which he had probably spent quite a bit of time and effort creating, and at least in the 2nd instance (at Whyte's Penthouse) he didn't put a bullet through his head even though he had him dead in his sights.

    Still, despite this I quite like the back and forth between them. It is an almost tepid rivalry as you note, but it's in tune with the tone of the film, which is overall quite camp.

    If one views DAF with a memory of OHMSS, then I can appreciate that it's going to be very disappointing.

    The PTS and the rest of DAF seem to be two completely different movie. In one Bond is out for revenge, relentless determined, then in the other he's like back from a long holiday.
    True. I think they wanted to move on from the OHMSS reboot as quickly as possible and get back to a lighter tone.

    Bond thought he'd killed Blofeld in the PTS anyway, and that allowed him (and the film makers) to reset and move forward after that. When he finds out he's alive later enough time has passed so that even though it's still personal, it's not so emotional.

    That doesn't really work though. "So the international terrorist who murdered my bride and one true love on our wedding day escaped death again and fooled me at the same time, making my whole hunt for him for personal vendetta pointless? Well, can't help it, can't help it. And what have you been up to Blofeld you old bastard?"
    Yes of course, if one looks at it literally then it doesn't really work, and especially for fans of the novels. I wasn't around at that time, but I can assume that EON and Co. wanted to wash OHMSS under the carpet and get back to a lighter tone (even lighter perhaps, in anticipation of Moore's upcoming entry as Bond). OHMSS was an experiment which they wanted to move on from. Nevertheless, they needed to address the Tracy issue from the conclusion of that film. So they dealt with the emotional component briefly in the PTS and then moved on.

    I've never been bothered by it all that much because I recognize the tone they were going for. Blofeld was about to be retired permanently on account of pre-existing copyright arrangements anyway, so I can't imagine they cared too much about him & how his character may have been perceived. The key perhaps was to have a tonally consistent film, which they succeeded in delivering. It's a lesson the current team should heed.
  • Posts: 15,226
    Oh I regretfully admit that DAF was necessary after OHMSS. More Lazenby and a similar tone could have easily killed Bond for good. It doesn't mean I have to like the movie and its inconsistent, schizophrenic even, tone. I understand why they did it the way they did it, I agree wiyn the decision but don't like it one bit.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    DAF saved the James Bond film series I am sure. But I rarely rewatch it these days ... it is too silly for a Connery Bond film.
  • Posts: 15,226
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    DAF saved the James Bond film series I am sure. But I rarely rewatch it these days ... it is too silly for a Connery Bond film.

    It's too silly for any Bond movie. It's the most evil of necessary evils.
  • Posts: 17,815
    If anything, I enjoy DAF more now than I have in several years. The discussion about it makes me want to watch it again.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited March 2018 Posts: 6,373
    bondjames wrote: »
    Blofeld was about to be retired permanently on account of pre-existing copyright arrangements anyway, so I can't imagine they cared too much about him & how his character may have been perceived.

    They didn't know that in 1970. Otherwise they would have definitely killed him off in DAF. Let's face it, it's sloppy filmmaking how they treated Tracy/Bond/Blofeld. They clearly wanted to move on from OHMSS but did it in a bungling way.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Oh I regretfully admit that DAF was necessary after OHMSS. More Lazenby and a similar tone could have easily killed Bond for good. It doesn't mean I have to like the movie and its inconsistent, schizophrenic even, tone. I understand why they did it the way they did it, I agree wiyn the decision but don't like it one bit.

    There is a quote from Peter Hunt somewhere that his initial vision for OHMSS was to have Bond and Tracy drive off into the sunset in OHMSS, and then bring her only back to be killed in the PTS of DAF. This would have avoided the "downer ending" curse.

    It seems to me that Eon did the first part at the end of SP and were planning to do the second in Bond 25 prior to Boyle's involvement.

    CR did it slightly differently...they gave Bond the downer ending with Vesper but allowed him to triumph in the final scene with White.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2018 Posts: 23,883
    echo wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Blofeld was about to be retired permanently on account of pre-existing copyright arrangements anyway, so I can't imagine they cared too much about him & how his character may have been perceived.

    They didn't know that in 1970. Otherwise they would have definitely killed him off in DAF. Let's face it, it's sloppy filmmaking how they treated Tracy/Bond/Blofeld. They clearly wanted to move on from OHMSS but did it in a bungling way.
    I thought they did know it. Wasn't there some sort of agreement struck in the 60s with a 10 year expiration re: EON's ability to use Blofeld?

    ---
    Where has Blofeld been? In court, mired in copyright litigation. The character originated in Longitude 78, a 1959 screenplay by Bond author Ian Fleming and screenwriter Kevin McClory. That script was intended to be the first 007 film, until producers Albert Broccoli and Harry Saltzman chose to shoot Dr. No. But Fleming liked Blofeld so much, he decided to turn Longitude 78 into a novel, retitled Thunderball. That's when McClory started filing lawsuits. In 1963, he settled with Fleming and the Bond producers for £35,000 ($1.02 million today) in damages and a producing credit on the Thunderball film. The deal also stipulated that rights to Thunderball and its characters would revert fully to McClory after 10 years, which is how he produced Warner Bros.' Never Say Never Again, 1983's veritable scene-for-scene remake of Thunderball, and nearly launched a competing 007 franchise with Sony in the 1990s until a court stopped them.
    ---

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/legal-battle-behind-bonds-blofeld-755734
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    DAF saved the James Bond film series I am sure. But I rarely rewatch it these days ... it is too silly for a Connery Bond film.
    I'd alter that statement slightly to say Sean saved the series. Is there any evidence to suggest that DAF would have been a failure had they not followed the crappy camp tone they did and instead properly followed up OHMSS with a serious revenge story but with Sean returning?

    I've read many times about how people wish that DAF had been a proper sequel to OHMSS with George and of course that would have been fantastic. But it's only just struck me that we could still have had this just with Sean instead.

    How do we think this would have turned out? Was the reason the box office for OHMSS was (relatively) lower due to the serious tone or Laz? Was the reason they shied away from going serious because after GF, TB and YOLT they thought the public preferred wisecracking Sean to shooting Professor Dent Sean and wouldn't want a return to a DN or FRWL?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Birdleson wrote: »
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    DAF saved the James Bond film series I am sure. But I rarely rewatch it these days ... it is too silly for a Connery Bond film.
    I'd alter that statement slightly to say Sean saved the series. Is there any evidence to suggest that DAF would have been a failure had they not followed the crappy camp tone they did and instead properly followed up OHMSS with a serious revenge story but with Sean returning?

    I've read many times about how people wish that DAF had been a proper sequel to OHMSS with George and of course that would have been fantastic. But it's only just struck me that we could still have had this just with Sean instead.

    How do we think this would have turned out? Was the reason the box office for OHMSS was (relatively) lower due to the serious tone or Laz? Was the reason they shied away from going serious because after GF, TB and YOLT they thought the public preferred wisecracking Sean to shooting Professor Dent Sean and wouldn't want a return to a DN or FRWL?

    They gave in to fear.
    Better than SP I suppose where they gave in to ineptitude.
  • Posts: 15,226
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    DAF saved the James Bond film series I am sure. But I rarely rewatch it these days ... it is too silly for a Connery Bond film.
    I'd alter that statement slightly to say Sean saved the series. Is there any evidence to suggest that DAF would have been a failure had they not followed the crappy camp tone they did and instead properly followed up OHMSS with a serious revenge story but with Sean returning?

    I've read many times about how people wish that DAF had been a proper sequel to OHMSS with George and of course that would have been fantastic. But it's only just struck me that we could still have had this just with Sean instead.

    How do we think this would have turned out? Was the reason the box office for OHMSS was (relatively) lower due to the serious tone or Laz? Was the reason they shied away from going serious because after GF, TB and YOLT they thought the public preferred wisecracking Sean to shooting Professor Dent Sean and wouldn't want a return to a DN or FRWL?

    That's a good question. Connery pretty much sold DAF all by himself.With the same tone AND Lazenby you still exasperate the audience.
  • Posts: 17,815
    Regarding SP, I tried to think where I would place it on a list with the other films according to my own preference in rewatchability factor. I actually think I'd place it at the very bottom, behind DAD. With DAD there's at least a first half I can enjoy. With SP there's probably only selected scenes.
  • edited March 2018 Posts: 684
    Was the reason they shied away from going serious because after GF, TB and YOLT they thought the public preferred wisecracking Sean to shooting Professor Dent Sean and wouldn't want a return to a DN or FRWL?
    Not sure how much of that question this interview excerpt will answer, but:

    http://www.scriptmag.com/features/interviews-features/masters-of-screenwriting-interview-tom-mankiewicz-part-1-of-2
    Mankiewicz: Completely unbeknownst to me, David Picker, who was the head of production at United Artists – who I’d never met – was having a meeting with Cubby Broccoli, producer of the Bond movies – who I’d never met – and there was a movie called Diamonds Are Forever. They were desperately trying to get Sean Connery back and he had turned down the script. And Cubby had said, “It needs a massive rewrite.” And he said, “But here’s what I’d like – I need a young writer, because I think Bond should get younger now. He’s got to be American, because so much of it takes place in Vegas and the Brits write such terrible Americans. And yet, I’d love him to be able to write in the British idiom because we have Bond and Moneypenny and M and all these people.” And David Picker said, “There’s somebody – I’ll check, I think it’s Tom Mankiewicz – he’s a Mankiewicz. But since I don’t know him, that means he’s young, that means he’s American. And I saw a play the other night – Georgy! – and all the characters are British and I thought the book was terrific. He’s writing British people and he’s clearly American and he’s young. Add him to your list.” So I get called up to Cubby Broccoli’s house and I have a nice meeting with him and with Guy Hamilton, the director, and I’m signed on a two week guarantee for $1,500 a week. They said “Turn in the first 30 pages in two weeks.” I turned it in and I’m in my little beach house. The phone rings. “One moment for Mr. Broccoli.” And Cubby said two words. That’s all. And I’ll never forget ’em for my life. He said: “Keep going.” And he hung up.
    I think that to Mankiewicz making the franchise young again meant dropping the seriousness, because the pretense of seriousness that had worked so well and sustained the 60s films (Connery's "laughing with me instead of at me") was exactly what was keeping it 'old' to the counter-culture.

    How Cubby and Harry decided on this course correction is anyone's guess. Maybe they really took to heart Lazenby's attitude of Bond being a square who was on his way out. There was no real reason to expect the franchise was going to last 50+ years.

    It makes sense in a larger scheme, culturally and film-wise. Bond was born in the swinging sixties, but there were two phases to that: the first, 'clean-shaven, cool' phase (which Bond came out of), and the second, 'shaggy hair, no shoes' phase. See the Beatles evolution, etc. I think by the latter part of the decade 'young' films came to mean the likes of EASY RIDER and THE GRADUATE and BONNIE AND CLYDE, films that were reacting to classic Hollywood form. Mankiewicz did the same thing, only he wrote something that was a reaction to the Bond form.

    Also from later in that interview:
    And here’s a piece of advice to writers, too. Sometimes when you’re writing something… like Superman… for whatever reason – whether it’s the money or you think it’s good or whatever – you want to show the audience that you’re smarter than the material. So you camp it up to show them, “We’re not really taking this seriously. This is all tongue in cheek.”
    He was young. He wanted to look clever. Could he have achieved his same objective by being entirely serious instead of not serious at all? Possibly. But that might have been a nasty film. It's almost like he made a choice to make fun of the character over condemning him outright. I think it also has something to do with the appeal of camp at the time and everybody deciding sincerity made you look naive.

    At any rate what he gave us did keep the franchise going. I don't think it was just down to Connery.
  • Posts: 15,226
    What I never quite understood is that the 70s had many violent, serious, realistic movies, even genre movies: The Godfather, The French Connection, The Exorcist, Get Carter. Why not follow this trend? Why go the self parody route?
  • edited March 2018 Posts: 17,815
    Ludovico wrote: »
    What I never quite understood is that the 70s had many violent, serious, realistic movies, even genre movies: The Godfather, The French Connection, The Exorcist, Get Carter. Why not follow this trend? Why go the self parody route?

    Good point. It's not like the seventies audiences would be unfamiliar with grittier cinema, or what? Then again, the following Bond films were coloured by the popular genres of that decade, LALD, TMWTGG and MR most of all.
  • Posts: 727
    He’s got to be American, because so much of it takes place in Vegas and the Brits write such terrible Americans.

    I almost vomited my recently consumed snack all over the carefully curated carpet. No sir, I would say it's almost entirely the opposite. Though in this case even the Americans wrote terrible Americans. DAF is filled with the most farcically caricatured Yanks. It never fails to make me laugh.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,911
    Well Mankiewicz may not have accurately (or respectfully, even) presented Americans and the US in Diamonds Are Forever, but he sure wrote to that audience as Broccoli was saying while balancing the British idiom and other elements. It was successful the way the producers intended to continue their franchise.

    One thing Tom Mankiewicz mastered was clever dialog, in a sub-par Bond film that's still something to relish.
  • Posts: 727
    Maybe it's the direction then? All the Americans sound dubbed and over the top. The director seeemed to have a disdain for all of them.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,911
    I'd fault the producers first for the overly fun approach, but it does go to the director for how it's presented on screen. The Las Vegas venue is easy to appear cheap in this case. And there's the sort of squib ending, less than a major assault on Blofeld's oil rig lair that was reportedly planned. A mine field not dodged so artfully, it is what it is. Still some fun on its own merits and in perspective.
  • Posts: 230
    I don't think the issue is "fun" or "not fun" or "silly" or "not silly". Both styles have had their gems and their duds. Execution and consistency of style/aproach are the key.
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