Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,108
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    All Time High is not only the greatest Bond theme song, but the greatest song in the history of recorded sound.

    Actually it was my grandmother's favorite Bond theme. To her credit, she wasn't well versed in Bond music, and probably hadn't heard too many of the other songs.

    Not quite understanding this newfound hatred of Nobody Does It Better, though. I suppose we'll next start hating on We Have All The Time in The World.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    The worst score in the series is SP by a big margin to me.
    I know SF is basically the same,but it at least was original,and had some nice moments (Bond approaching Silva's island on the boat,Bond approaching the casino etc.)

    I'll have to agree on that one, sadly. I remember exiting the theater trying to rationalize the score. I tried to convince myself it could have been worse. It least it wasn't like Newman recycled Serra's Ladies First and played it on loop.
    Nope, he produced a Bond score completely devoid of it's own identity.

    Words fail me. Damn, even the gun-barrel music is out of sync and crappy, IMO. Craig finally gets to shine in his first opening gunbarrel, and Newman has to spoil that moment for him. I can completely overlook the gun being visible as he swings his right arm. Daniel is off the hook on that one. It's all Newman and Mendes' artistic licence that ruined that moment once again. Unforgivable.

    Yep, there is nothing wrong with his walk and stance. The gun might be visible, but that’s just some one-off oddity like Laz falling on his knee. It’s original and I like it.

    The music however, and that damned quote. What a way to ruin the gunbarrel. Unfortunately more of the same was to come.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    All Time High is also my wife's favourite Bond theme.

    My favourite is Moonraker, followed by (in no particular order) You only Live Twice, OHMSS, TWINE, NDIB.
    Controversially, I quite like Writing On The Wall
  • Posts: 16,149
    Here's another opinion, though I'm not sure if this is too controversial.
    It should be mandated that the title song appear on the soundtrack album. I actually skipped buying the CR, SF and SP soundtracks because it was missing that important element. Why buy the song separately as a single? Makes no sense. Obviously, there are record company deals and label legalistics etc, That never stopped the filmmakers before?
  • Posts: 17,740
    jobo wrote: »
    @jobo If you'd prefer an up-tempo version, there's always the Me First and the Gimme Gimmes cover! :-D



    Oh, I have nothing against slow music as long as the arrangement is good.

    Don't doubt that; this is just a different take on the same song. :-)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2018 Posts: 23,883
    All this talk of Nobody Does it Better has the tune going around in my head. I'm now compelled to take in a viewing of the great TSWLM. Probably will do that this weekend.
    --
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    All Time High is not only the greatest Bond theme song, but the greatest song in the history of recorded sound.

    Actually it was my grandmother's favorite Bond theme. To her credit, she wasn't well versed in Bond music, and probably hadn't heard too many of the other songs.
    I don't mind the song. Prefer it to For Your Eyes Only actually. It's a bit slow but suits the 'older Rog' era.
  • Posts: 17,740
    bondjames wrote: »
    All this talk of Nobody Does it Better has the tune going around in my head. I'm now compelled to take in a viewing of the great TSWLM. Probably will do that this weekend.

    This sums up my day!
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    jobo wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    How can you not like Nobody Does it Better?!!!!
    In the immortal words of Alan Partridge: "Clang, clang a lang a lang a lang a lang a lang....clang a lang..!"


    You wrote one 'a lang' too much. Check the rythm again...

    He’s quoting Alan Partridge.


    I know (duh). But Alan sang the correct rythm...

    He’s written it as Alan sang it.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
  • pking_3pking_3 Punting under the Bridge of Sighs
    Posts: 33
    NicNac wrote: »
    ...the character is clearly strong and independent when she is in her comfort zone, (on the beach), and only becomes the sweet, naïve creature after Dr No captures them. The impact she makes in a short screen time takes her out of the inconsequential zone. When one considers a character like Lupe in Licence To Kill. A beautiful girl with plenty of screen time, she makes no impact at all onscreen.

    I would argue that if one's comfort zone is when alone on the beach...and not really anywhere else that I can see, then one's strength is dubious and one's independence seems precarious and fragile, since it disappears more-or-less as soon as others arrive.

    Though I don't really need a character to be strong and independent to form a positive opinion. She could be strong, weak, good, evil, anything really...and I would credit the role if it works well in-story and is performed well by the actress. Honey/Andress is mediocre at best on these fronts.

    Lupe, for example, is supposed to be too flawed, superficial, vapid, avaricious and opportunistic to really matter to Bond/us. Hence, we are supposed to enjoy her rejection by James as she gets to pursue the more-appropriate-for-her-tastes "el presidente Armendariz jr" while James gets to reward the "better" girl by getting her all wet as the credits roll. And it works. For what Lupe is, its a better result than Honey.

    Anyways, of course you're not wrong. I'm trying to be controversial here; I don't expect many others to see the same things.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    mattjoes wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    How can you not like Nobody Does it Better?!!!!
    In the immortal words of Alan Partridge: "Clang, clang a lang a lang a lang a lang a lang....clang a lang..!"


    You wrote one 'a lang' too much. Check the rythm again...

    It's correct, actually. It's the first fifteen piano notes of the introduction of the theme.

    One note = Clang

    (pause)

    Eleven notes = clang a lang a lang a lang a lang a lang

    (pause)

    Three notes = clang a lang!

    Partridge sings it like that, and then goes on to finish the intro by clang-a-langing his way through the five remaining notes (clang a lang a lang, IIRC).

    (Geekiest comment of the year? Vote for me at geek.com/mattjoes)

    Great comment @mattjoes !

    Personally I find Jobo's comments about how many 'langs' I should have used (to quote Mr Partridge again) "Just sa-ah-ad!!!!"
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 17,740
    This scene, strangely enough, is one of my favourites in OHMSS, and quite possibly one of my favourites (along with several other scenes) in the whole series:

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    This scene, strangely enough, is one of my favourites in OHMSS, and quite possibly one of my favourites (along with several other scenes) in the whole series:


    Fantastic scene!

    The sets, the Barry score, the performances from everyone, particularly Lazenby and the editing.

    This is James Bond to a tee.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    This scene, strangely enough, is one of my favourites in OHMSS, and quite possibly one of my favourites (along with several other scenes) in the whole series:


    Fantastic scene!

    The sets, the Barry score, the performances from everyone, particularly Lazenby and the editing.

    This is James Bond to a tee.
    Agreed, although I believe it owes more to Barry than anyone else. He did so much to elevate these early films.

    Perhaps controversially, a scene which reminds me very much of this, and also captures Bond at his absolute best, is this entire 9.5 mins. A masterclass in how to pull it all together imho.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    bondjames wrote: »
    This scene, strangely enough, is one of my favourites in OHMSS, and quite possibly one of my favourites (along with several other scenes) in the whole series:


    Fantastic scene!

    The sets, the Barry score, the performances from everyone, particularly Lazenby and the editing.

    This is James Bond to a tee.
    Agreed, although I believe it owes more to Barry than anyone else. He did so much to elevate these early films.

    Perhaps controversially, a scene which reminds me very much of this, and also captures Bond at his absolute best, is this entire 9.5 mins. A masterclass in how to pull it all together imho.


    One of the best scenes in the entire series.

    Mendes, Deakins, Newman, Craig and the rest really hit gold there.
  • Posts: 17,740
    This scene, strangely enough, is one of my favourites in OHMSS, and quite possibly one of my favourites (along with several other scenes) in the whole series:


    Fantastic scene!

    The sets, the Barry score, the performances from everyone, particularly Lazenby and the editing.

    This is James Bond to a tee.
    bondjames wrote: »
    This scene, strangely enough, is one of my favourites in OHMSS, and quite possibly one of my favourites (along with several other scenes) in the whole series:


    Fantastic scene!

    The sets, the Barry score, the performances from everyone, particularly Lazenby and the editing.

    This is James Bond to a tee.
    Agreed, although I believe it owes more to Barry than anyone else. He did so much to elevate these early films.

    Glad I'm not the only one who finds this scene great! Barry is top-notch here too, of course – adding that extra tension to the scene.

    bondjames wrote: »
    Perhaps controversially, a scene which reminds me very much of this, and also captures Bond at his absolute best, is this entire 9.5 mins. A masterclass in how to pull it all together imho.


    Although I've never been crazy about SF, I do enjoy this. My issue with Patrice (and one of the issues I have with SF), is how terribly wasted the casting of Ola Rapace is. He's too good an actor to have a non-speaking role.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Perhaps controversially, a scene which reminds me very much of this, and also captures Bond at his absolute best, is this entire 9.5 mins. A masterclass in how to pull it all together imho.


    Although I've never been crazy about SF, I do enjoy this. My issue with Patrice (and one of the issues I have with SF), is how terribly wasted the casting of Ola Rapace is. He's too good an actor to have a non-speaking role.
    I've only seen him in SF, but he made quite an impression in that film. Chilling, right from the opening scene, and far more memorable (imho) than the caricature that is Mr. Hinx.

    This is one of the reasons I'm in favour of no-name (at least as far as Anglo Saxon audiences are concerned) actors. I find they are always the most memorable in Bond films, due to no expectations.
  • Posts: 17,740
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Perhaps controversially, a scene which reminds me very much of this, and also captures Bond at his absolute best, is this entire 9.5 mins. A masterclass in how to pull it all together imho.


    Although I've never been crazy about SF, I do enjoy this. My issue with Patrice (and one of the issues I have with SF), is how terribly wasted the casting of Ola Rapace is. He's too good an actor to have a non-speaking role.
    I've only seen him in SF, but he made quite an impression in that film. Chilling, right from the opening scene, and far more memorable (imho) than the caricature that is Mr. Hinx.

    This is one of the reasons I'm in favour of no-name (at least as far as Anglo Saxon audiences are concerned) actors. I find they are always the most memorable in Bond films, due to no expectations.

    It's always interesting having unfamiliar actors/actresses cast in Bond films. Usually they tend to deliver (and then some), as well.

    I really don't know what you can see Ola Rapace in that's been made outside Scandinavia. If available on Netflix, you might catch him in episodes of Wallander, Anna Pihl or the Crimes of Passion TV movies – a series of TV films based on the books of Maria Lang – a Swedish equivalent of Agatha Christie, sort of. The films have the same style as the recent Agatha Christie adaptations for BBC, etc.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Perhaps controversially, a scene which reminds me very much of this, and also captures Bond at his absolute best, is this entire 9.5 mins. A masterclass in how to pull it all together imho.


    Although I've never been crazy about SF, I do enjoy this. My issue with Patrice (and one of the issues I have with SF), is how terribly wasted the casting of Ola Rapace is. He's too good an actor to have a non-speaking role.
    I've only seen him in SF, but he made quite an impression in that film. Chilling, right from the opening scene, and far more memorable (imho) than the caricature that is Mr. Hinx.

    This is one of the reasons I'm in favour of no-name (at least as far as Anglo Saxon audiences are concerned) actors. I find they are always the most memorable in Bond films, due to no expectations.

    It's always interesting having unfamiliar actors/actresses cast in Bond films. Usually they tend to deliver (and then some), as well.

    I really don't know what you can see Ola Rapace in that's been made outside Scandinavia. If available on Netflix, you might catch him in episodes of Wallander, Anna Pihl or the Crimes of Passion TV movies – a series of TV films based on the books of Maria Lang – a Swedish equivalent of Agatha Christie, sort of. The films have the same style as the recent Agatha Christie adaptations for BBC, etc.
    Thanks. I was planning on picking up the English version of Wallander, but I assume you mean the Swedish version? I just did a search and apparently he was in Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets. I have been meaning to give that a viewing at some point.
  • Posts: 17,740
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Perhaps controversially, a scene which reminds me very much of this, and also captures Bond at his absolute best, is this entire 9.5 mins. A masterclass in how to pull it all together imho.


    Although I've never been crazy about SF, I do enjoy this. My issue with Patrice (and one of the issues I have with SF), is how terribly wasted the casting of Ola Rapace is. He's too good an actor to have a non-speaking role.
    I've only seen him in SF, but he made quite an impression in that film. Chilling, right from the opening scene, and far more memorable (imho) than the caricature that is Mr. Hinx.

    This is one of the reasons I'm in favour of no-name (at least as far as Anglo Saxon audiences are concerned) actors. I find they are always the most memorable in Bond films, due to no expectations.

    It's always interesting having unfamiliar actors/actresses cast in Bond films. Usually they tend to deliver (and then some), as well.

    I really don't know what you can see Ola Rapace in that's been made outside Scandinavia. If available on Netflix, you might catch him in episodes of Wallander, Anna Pihl or the Crimes of Passion TV movies – a series of TV films based on the books of Maria Lang – a Swedish equivalent of Agatha Christie, sort of. The films have the same style as the recent Agatha Christie adaptations for BBC, etc.
    Thanks. I was planning on picking up the English version of Wallander, but I assume you mean the Swedish version? I just did a search and apparently he was in Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets. I have been meaning to give that a viewing at some point.

    Yes, I meant the Swedish version. Completely forgot about the UK one while writing that comment. Didn't know he starred in the Valerian film. It received mixed reviews from what I can see online, but it might still be entertaining.
  • Posts: 12,462
    @bondjames

    @Torgeirtrap

    Both of those are among my favorite Bond scenes in the series as well - particularly the whole Shanghai sequence in SF. I love almost all of SF, but the Shanghai sequence was untoppable for the rest.
  • Posts: 2,402
    Nobody - not even Ian Fleming in CREATING Bond - did more to instigate turning Bond into a cultural icon than Cubby.
  • Posts: 15,106
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Perhaps controversially, a scene which reminds me very much of this, and also captures Bond at his absolute best, is this entire 9.5 mins. A masterclass in how to pull it all together imho.


    Although I've never been crazy about SF, I do enjoy this. My issue with Patrice (and one of the issues I have with SF), is how terribly wasted the casting of Ola Rapace is. He's too good an actor to have a non-speaking role.
    I've only seen him in SF, but he made quite an impression in that film. Chilling, right from the opening scene, and far more memorable (imho) than the caricature that is Mr. Hinx.

    This is one of the reasons I'm in favour of no-name (at least as far as Anglo Saxon audiences are concerned) actors. I find they are always the most memorable in Bond films, due to no expectations.

    I'm all in favour of such unknown actors as well. Especially as villains.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    This scene, strangely enough, is one of my favourites in OHMSS, and quite possibly one of my favourites (along with several other scenes) in the whole series:


    Fantastic scene!

    The sets, the Barry score, the performances from everyone, particularly Lazenby and the editing.

    This is James Bond to a tee.
    Agreed, although I believe it owes more to Barry than anyone else. He did so much to elevate these early films.

    Perhaps controversially, a scene which reminds me very much of this, and also captures Bond at his absolute best, is this entire 9.5 mins. A masterclass in how to pull it all together imho.


    One of the best scenes in the entire series.

    Mendes, Deakins, Newman, Craig and the rest really hit gold there.

    I’ve seen a lot of people using the Slate fight as an example of what EON should be aiming to replicate going forward. This scene blows it out of the water. Pacing, tension, cinematography, choreography, score. It’s brilliant.
  • Posts: 17,740
    Regarding the Shanghai scenes. The music that starts at 1:10 in the above video (Shanghai Drive) is the only track from the SF score I really, really like – and it's not that Bondian at all! Fits the scenery very well.
  • Posts: 12,462
    Which is a good opportunity for a controversial opinion of mine: I really enjoy most of Thomas Newman’s SF soundtrack, and even some of SP’s (which is weaker, but still has some interesting tunes). I think his music for Bond is some of the most overhated stuff around here. That being said, I’m not rooting for him to return to Bond, but I do appreciate most of his contributions.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Which is a good opportunity for a controversial opinion of mine: I really enjoy most of Thomas Newman’s SF soundtrack, and even some of SP’s (which is weaker, but still has some interesting tunes). I think his music for Bond is some of the most overhated stuff around here. That being said, I’m not rooting for him to return to Bond, but I do appreciate most of his contributions.

    Agreed. I find his two scores absolutely fine. Yes he re-uses some music in SP but it still fits the film and it's not like Barry didn't re-use stuff.

    I would prefer Arnold back for Bond 25 but some of the rabid hate Newman gets on here really does border on the hysterical.

    Some of the members on here seem to brainwash themselves to hate stuff.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2018 Posts: 23,883
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Which is a good opportunity for a controversial opinion of mine: I really enjoy most of Thomas Newman’s SF soundtrack, and even some of SP’s (which is weaker, but still has some interesting tunes). I think his music for Bond is some of the most overhated stuff around here. That being said, I’m not rooting for him to return to Bond, but I do appreciate most of his contributions.

    Agreed. I find his two scores absolutely fine. Yes he re-uses some music in SP but it still fits the film and it's not like Barry didn't re-use stuff.

    I would prefer Arnold back for Bond 25 but some of the rabid hate Newman gets on here really does border on the hysterical.

    Some of the members on here seem to brainwash themselves to hate stuff.
    I'd go farther actually. I love the SF score personally. It's how I discovered this forum (I was searching out samples of his music when they were posted online prior to the film's release). I think it was a fresh approach perfectly suited to the film. There are some very interesting cues in it and I'm glad he received a nomination. I have no interest in buying the soundtrack cd because I don't think the tracks would work so well on their own - rather, they very much compliment the respective scenes.

    I'm not as keen on the SP score, and it's not because of the recycling. Rather, it's because I think it needed a better action composer. I think Newman is better suited to a film like SF, which is less action heavy. He can create interesting romance and suspense cues, but is poor when it comes to action. From what I've read, they were very rushed at the end of production of this film, so he probably had limited time to pull it all together and be creative.

    His SP score has a lot of interesting and unsettling ambient cues, which compliment the film.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,767
    Agree with @FoxRox and @LeonardPine on the Thomas Newman scores.

    I'd prefer David Arnold return, but Newman matches the action and locales and other marks just fine. Most important to me he's respectful of the franchise and its history, John Barry, and even Arnold.
  • Posts: 17,740
    I tried to like the Newman scores. I really did (listened to them a lot of times because of this), but they took me straight out of what was going on on screen. To me both scores felt like they belonged in different (non-Bond) films.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    bondjames wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Which is a good opportunity for a controversial opinion of mine: I really enjoy most of Thomas Newman’s SF soundtrack, and even some of SP’s (which is weaker, but still has some interesting tunes). I think his music for Bond is some of the most overhated stuff around here. That being said, I’m not rooting for him to return to Bond, but I do appreciate most of his contributions.

    Agreed. I find his two scores absolutely fine. Yes he re-uses some music in SP but it still fits the film and it's not like Barry didn't re-use stuff.

    I would prefer Arnold back for Bond 25 but some of the rabid hate Newman gets on here really does border on the hysterical.

    Some of the members on here seem to brainwash themselves to hate stuff.
    I'd go farther actually. I love the SF score personally. It's how I discovered this forum (I was searching out samples of his music when they were posted online prior to the film's release). I think it was a fresh approach perfectly suited to the film. There are some very interesting cues in it and I'm glad he received a nomination. I have no interest in buying the soundtrack cd because I don't think the tracks would work so well on their own - rather, they very much compliment the respective scenes.

    I'm not as keen on the SP score, and it's not because of the recycling. Rather, it's because I think it needed a better action composer. I think Newman is better suited to a film like SF, which is less action heavy. He can create interesting romance and suspense cues, but is poor when it comes to action. From what I've read, they were very rushed at the end of production of this film, so he probably had limited time to pull it all together and be creative.

    His SP score has a lot of interesting and unsettling ambient cues, which compliment the film.

    I like a lot of Newman's action cues. The music for SF's PTS is beautifully done. It's in two parts on the soundtrack and i love listening to it.

    I also think his music in the SP PTS is really good and exciting. I love the way it comes in halfway through the helicopter fight.

    I think the Bond producers have always delivered great soundtracks to the series.
    I know GE has some dodgy musical moments but theres also a lot of good stuff. I'm not a huge fan of Kamen's music in LTK but it's still a good soundtrack overall.

    So yeah, i like all the Bond soundtracks to varying degrees.
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