Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Was watching OHMSS again the other day.

    Despite his inexperience, Laz is strong in several scenes. BUT I’m not sure I believe his character as a lost, tortured soul. He’s too youthful and sprightly.

    Laz does great. But does he really convince as a sophisticated worldly spy? Not for me.
  • mybudgetbondmybudgetbond The World
    Posts: 189
    I’m a really big fan of Quantum. There is so much good stuff in it. I’m glad to see that it is being appreciated more and more.

    Of course there are faults, and it won’t be everyone’s cup of tea, but it doesn’t deserve its reputation.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    I ever-so-slightly prefer QoS to CR, and feel that QoS is by far Craig's best entry throughout his era. I hope to see it become more and more appreciated as the years go by.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,108
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Was watching OHMSS again the other day.

    Despite his inexperience, Laz is strong in several scenes. BUT I’m not sure I believe his character as a lost, tortured soul. He’s too youthful and sprightly.

    Laz does great. But does he really convince as a sophisticated worldly spy? Not for me.

    He does for me.

    Craig on the other hand, despite his fine acting chops, is the one who doesn’t convince me as a sophisticated bon vivant.
  • Posts: 17,744
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Was watching OHMSS again the other day.

    Despite his inexperience, Laz is strong in several scenes. BUT I’m not sure I believe his character as a lost, tortured soul. He’s too youthful and sprightly.

    Laz does great. But does he really convince as a sophisticated worldly spy? Not for me.

    He does for me.

    Craig on the other hand, despite his fine acting chops, is the one who doesn’t convince me as a sophisticated bon vivant.

    Laz did for me as well.

    Controversial option; I've never been sold on Craig as Bond. Good actor - sure, but he has never managed to convince me in the role.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,108
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Was watching OHMSS again the other day.

    Despite his inexperience, Laz is strong in several scenes. BUT I’m not sure I believe his character as a lost, tortured soul. He’s too youthful and sprightly.

    Laz does great. But does he really convince as a sophisticated worldly spy? Not for me.

    He does for me.

    Craig on the other hand, despite his fine acting chops, is the one who doesn’t convince me as a sophisticated bon vivant.

    Laz did for me as well.

    Controversial option; I've never been sold on Craig as Bond. Good actor - sure, but he has never managed to convince me in the role.

    Exactly my thoughts. Good actor, but not refined enough to convince me as James Bond.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: I do not like the MR score. It is too downbeat and and acts as a wet blanket throughout the film.

    I get that Barry was trying to out-do John Williams but it just doesn't work for me.

    I absolutely agree, and my least favourite Barry soundtrack over all.
  • Posts: 17,744
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Was watching OHMSS again the other day.

    Despite his inexperience, Laz is strong in several scenes. BUT I’m not sure I believe his character as a lost, tortured soul. He’s too youthful and sprightly.

    Laz does great. But does he really convince as a sophisticated worldly spy? Not for me.

    He does for me.

    Craig on the other hand, despite his fine acting chops, is the one who doesn’t convince me as a sophisticated bon vivant.

    Laz did for me as well.

    Controversial option; I've never been sold on Craig as Bond. Good actor - sure, but he has never managed to convince me in the role.

    Exactly my thoughts. Good actor, but not refined enough to convince me as James Bond.

    Agree. All the previous actors have had that extra level of refinement in the looks and/or the way they acted on screen.
    peter wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: I do not like the MR score. It is too downbeat and and acts as a wet blanket throughout the film.

    I get that Barry was trying to out-do John Williams but it just doesn't work for me.

    I absolutely agree, and my least favourite Barry soundtrack over all.

    It's my least favourite Barry soundtrack too. It's sounds great, but is a bit "boring" compared to Barry's other scores. I even like TMWTGG better.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Was watching OHMSS again the other day.

    Despite his inexperience, Laz is strong in several scenes. BUT I’m not sure I believe his character as a lost, tortured soul. He’s too youthful and sprightly.

    Laz does great. But does he really convince as a sophisticated worldly spy? Not for me.

    He does for me.

    Craig on the other hand, despite his fine acting chops, is the one who doesn’t convince me as a sophisticated bon vivant.

    Controversial option; I've never been sold on Craig as Bond. Good actor - sure, but he has never managed to convince me in the role.

    Completely agree.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I ever-so-slightly prefer QoS to CR, and feel that QoS is by far Craig's best entry throughout his era. I hope to see it become more and more appreciated as the years go by.

    Wah, I wouldn’t go that far but good for you mate. Qos love is deeply appreciated
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I ever-so-slightly prefer QoS to CR, and feel that QoS is by far Craig's best entry throughout his era. I hope to see it become more and more appreciated as the years go by.

    Wah, I wouldn’t go that far but good for you mate. Qos love is deeply appreciated

    It beats it by the slightest of margins, however; I love them both, QoS just barely bests CR for me.
  • Posts: 1,916
    With all the recent support for MR as least favorite soundtrack, I'll throw in my controversial opinion that AVTAK is my least favorite Barry soundtrack. The movie is bad enough and Barry can't save it and even gets dragged down by it.

    It's okay in places, the theme is great, Wine with Stacey is nice but little else. It's even got my least favorite action theme.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I agree @BT3366 ... that is controversial...(!)... Welcome to the thread, old chap!

    Seriously, I love Barry, and especially love Bond-Barry (I mentioned a few years ago that, through his music, he seemed to be the one, I felt, knew Bond better than everyone else (save Maibaum and Young), and was the most consistent in his portrayal of the character through his music (does that make sense?)).

    But the MR soundtrack puts me to sleep...

    My second least favourite soundtrack (but I flipping LOVED it as a 14/15 year old kid), is TLD. But I still find it miles ahead of MR...

    I still have a blast with AVTAK's soundtrack, although it is OP-lite (OP the last, great Barry soundtrack, IMO)
  • Posts: 16,149
    There's much about Barry's MOONRAKER soundtrack I love. Many lovely haunting tracks. I'll take it over Newman any day.

    That said, if I had to pick a least favorite Barry, it might just be MR. My least favorite Barry rendition of the gunbarrel is probably in MR as well. Still, I'll take that over Newman and Arnold's gunbarrels any day as well.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    peter, I agree with you. I would put Barry and Maibaum up there as the unsung (?) heroes of the Bond legacy in that they really kept the series going when others faltered or dropped out...YOLT and OHMSS are pure genius, and DAF is not far behind.

    I'd rank OP over AVTAK, and then TMWTGG and MR. I do like the TLD soundtrack because Dalton was really my Bond growing up, and I love Barry's cameo (the most fitting in the series).
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    whoa- whoa-whoa- @echo ... I have never heard of Barry's cameo????? Where and when??? I feel like such a douche for not knowing this!

    Re: Dalton: when I was a kid I loved him, then not so much in my 20s and up, but I've revisited him and love his risks... If anything, I'd put better fitting suits on the man (especially in L2K)... and I wish he was a little less pissed off about everything.

    I recently have my Bond rankings as so:

    SC
    DC

    RM
    TD
    GL

    PB

    But I do believe if Tim had one more solid outing, he would have surpassed Moore's 7 outings to Tim's three, as my solid three...
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    Aww, I don't want to spoil it for you. If you have TLD handy, watch the last scene.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    echo wrote: »
    Aww, I don't want to spoil it for you. If you have TLD handy, watch the last scene.

    You're a tease...
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Ok-- I'm an idiot @echo ... Carry on...
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I’ll give you a hint.... what would central plot device in TLD can be directly tied to something Barry would be accustomed to
  • Posts: 11,189
    Love the Moonraker soundtrack. My favourite alongside OHMSS and one I often listen to on YouTube.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,020
    peter wrote: »
    Seriously, I love Barry, and especially love Bond-Barry (I mentioned a few years ago that, through his music, he seemed to be the one, I felt, knew Bond better than everyone else (save Maibaum and Young), and was the most consistent in his portrayal of the character through his music (does that make sense?)).
    Yes, it makes sense.

    peter wrote: »
    But the MR soundtrack puts me to sleep...
    Some of my favorite pieces of that score are sadly not in the album. The Moonraker hijacking, freefall and Venini Glass cues, among others.

    peter wrote: »
    I still have a blast with AVTAK's soundtrack, although it is OP-lite (OP the last, great Barry soundtrack, IMO)
    Funny, I find AVTAK to be the more inspired and interesting score of the two. The love theme, the action theme, even the suspense music is more interesting (Tibbett Gets Washed Out and Bond Escapes Roller > The Chase Bomb Theme and 009 Gets the Knife).

    ---

    Personally, of the late era Barry scores I rank TMWTGG and AVTAK higher than MR, OP and TLD. I love all of them, however.

    ToTheRight wrote: »
    My least favorite Barry rendition of the gunbarrel is probably in MR as well. Still, I'll take that over Newman and Arnold's gunbarrels any day as well.
    I love the MR gunbarrel, but if it's not presumptuous of me to say, I also totally understand why it's your least favorite of Barry's. At least there is nothing generic about its instrumentation, which Arnold and Newman's gunbarrels are somewhat guilty of.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Flight into Space is majestic, but I can sort of see where the negativity comes from regarding the score at large - even if I don’t necessarily agree with it.

    @peter - what do you make of TLD? Personally I could get on board with it being Barry’s best. It’s got so many great cues.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I used to love it @RC7 ... my favourite when I was 14. That soundtrack went with me wherever I went... now it rests near the bottom; but, apart from MR, I can’t really define what a least favourite Barry soundtrack is. Let’s just say I’m too in love with the classics: FRWL through to and including TMWTGG.

    Right now MR and the 80s efforts are not on the play list at the moment...
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    peter wrote: »
    I used to love it @RC7 ... my favourite when I was 14. That soundtrack went with me wherever I went... now it rests near the bottom; but, apart from MR, I can’t really define what a least favourite Barry soundtrack is. Let’s just say I’m too in love with the classics: FRWL through to and including TMWTGG.

    Right now MR and the 80s efforts are not on the play list at the moment...

    I think OP thru TLD is really strong, but I wonder if the relative apathy towards the films (not so much TLD) taints perception? I feel the same about the first few. I’m not sure they’re always consistently strong, although the high points are as good as it gets.

    If I had to pick a run I’d say YOLT - DAF is almost flawless.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I would definitely include Thunderball... so sexy and sensual...
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I should add @RC7 that I used to listen to the 80s Barry tracks quite often and enjoyed them
    Immensely (and I have a soft spot for OP, AVTAK and TLD as films)... I just think I’m in a stage where nothing beats that classic sound.

    Talk to me in six months, and I’ll be back listening to the 80s Barry all over again!!
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,108
    TB gets my vote for best music score in the Connery films. Mysterious, exotic and exciting all in one.
  • edited September 2018 Posts: 16,149
    mattjoes wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Seriously, I love Barry, and especially love Bond-Barry (I mentioned a few years ago that, through his music, he seemed to be the one, I felt, knew Bond better than everyone else (save Maibaum and Young), and was the most consistent in his portrayal of the character through his music (does that make sense?)).
    Yes, it makes sense.

    peter wrote: »
    But the MR soundtrack puts me to sleep...
    Some of my favorite pieces of that score are sadly not in the album. The Moonraker hijacking, freefall and Venini Glass cues, among others.

    peter wrote: »
    I still have a blast with AVTAK's soundtrack, although it is OP-lite (OP the last, great Barry soundtrack, IMO)
    Funny, I find AVTAK to be the more inspired and interesting score of the two. The love theme, the action theme, even the suspense music is more interesting (Tibbett Gets Washed Out and Bond Escapes Roller > The Chase Bomb Theme and 009 Gets the Knife).

    ---

    Personally, of the late era Barry scores I rank TMWTGG and AVTAK higher than MR, OP and TLD. I love all of them, however.

    ToTheRight wrote: »
    My least favorite Barry rendition of the gunbarrel is probably in MR as well. Still, I'll take that over Newman and Arnold's gunbarrels any day as well.
    I love the MR gunbarrel, but if it's not presumptuous of me to say, I also totally understand why it's your least favorite of Barry's. At least there is nothing generic about its instrumentation, which Arnold and Newman's gunbarrels are somewhat guilty of.

    I love that Barry had given his GB's a different style for Roger than with Sean. Strings as opposed to the electric guitar. I feel it took until OP for Barry to perfect his Roger style gunbarrel. I like the opening chords in the MR gunbarrel. Stands out among the rest. However, AVTAK's opening GB chords pack a but more punch to me.
    Actually, I may have just changed my mind here. The Barry GB for TMWTGG might actually be my least favorite of that batch. The melody is played three times as instead of two, and much faster. Fits the film, though.
    Tough call. Either way, I'll take any Barry gunbarrel over everything that's been done since he left.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    peter wrote: »
    I would definitely include Thunderball... so sexy and sensual...

    I would’ve done, but (feel free to shoot me down) while some of it is about as good as it gets, I find portions of it tend to plod, much like the film. YOLT feels more complete, at least to me anyway.
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