Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    YOLT is bloody incredible; I get what you’re saying about TB... In the end, the man was a genius. We wont see another like him— goes without saying.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    peter wrote: »
    YOLT is bloody incredible; I get what you’re saying about TB... In the end, the man was a genius. We wont see another like him— goes without saying.

    Ain’t that the truth?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Probably should move this onto another thread, @RC7, but...— outside of Barry, which 007 soundtracks are high on your list??
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    RC7 wrote: »
    I think OP thru TLD is really strong, but I wonder if the relative apathy towards the films (not so much TLD) taints perception? I feel the same about the first few. I’m not sure they’re always consistently strong, although the high points are as good as it gets.

    If I had to pick a run I’d say YOLT - DAF is almost flawless.

    TLD is the very best JB score imo. Nothing controversial to speak highly of OP or AVTAK either, as they're both above par.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    My least favorite Barry Bond score is probably TMWTGG. It has it's moments though but it's very basic. But understandably so as Barry was on a massive time crunch to get it done.

    My favorite Barry score is AVTAK.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Birdleson wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I think OP thru TLD is really strong, but I wonder if the relative apathy towards the films (not so much TLD) taints perception? I feel the same about the first few. I’m not sure they’re always consistently strong, although the high points are as good as it gets.

    If I had to pick a run I’d say YOLT - DAF is almost flawless.

    TLD is the very best JB score imo. Nothing controversial to speak highly of OP or AVTAK either, as they're both above par.

    TLD is the only Berry score that I don't care for. It's comparatively tinny, and that repeated phrase doesn't do much for me.

    I like TLD score a fair bit, but it's not one I return to that much.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    I remember discovering TLD score had been reissued on CD with the score in its entirety. I was so pleased as its such an outstanding piece of work. The action cues are top notch and much of the score is romantic and epic.
    His last Bond score was one of his best IMO
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,108
    I’d say TLD, OHMSS and TB are the best scores in the series.

    GE, TMWTGG, AVTAK and DAF are also among my favourites.

    The worst ones are SF and SP for me.
  • edited September 2018 Posts: 17,744
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I’d say TLD, OHMSS and TB are the best scores in the series.

    GE, TMWTGG, AVTAK and DAF are also among my favourites.

    The worst ones are SF and SP for me.

    Definitely agree on SF/SP.

    OHMSS, TB, DAF, FRWL, LALD and AVTAK are probably the scores I listen most to - followed by the rest of the Barry scores and the Arnold scores. Controversially perhaps, but I can also enjoy the funky scores of TSWLM and FYEO.

    DN, LTK and GE don't do much for me, but I still prefer them over SF/SP.
  • Posts: 12,462
    For the scores, my favorites would include: GF, TB, YOLT, OHMSS, LALD, TSWLM, AVTAK, TLD, CR, and QOS.

    Least favorites: DN, TMWTGG, FYEO, LTK, and SP.

    All my least favorites still have some highlights for me.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I remember discovering TLD score had been reissued on CD with the score in its entirety. I was so pleased as its such an outstanding piece of work. The action cues are top notch and much of the score is romantic and epic.
    His last Bond score was one of his best IMO

    Dammit men! after what you and @RC7 have said today, I'm going to make a very cold and very stiff, tall drink. Head into my den. Put on my Beats.... and let the magic happen...

    (clothing optional)
  • mybudgetbondmybudgetbond The World
    Posts: 189
    I actually really liked the Skyfall score. A few numbers in the Spectre score are quite good, but most of it isn’t great.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I actually really liked the Skyfall score.
    Me too. I think it's an excellent score worthy of an equally excellent film.
    A few numbers in the Spectre score are quite good, but most of it isn’t great.
    Agreed. Some decent motifs but in the end it comes up woefully short, primarily on account of the action scoring being weak. It's not Newman's strong suit imho.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited September 2018 Posts: 7,020
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Seriously, I love Barry, and especially love Bond-Barry (I mentioned a few years ago that, through his music, he seemed to be the one, I felt, knew Bond better than everyone else (save Maibaum and Young), and was the most consistent in his portrayal of the character through his music (does that make sense?)).
    Yes, it makes sense.

    peter wrote: »
    But the MR soundtrack puts me to sleep...
    Some of my favorite pieces of that score are sadly not in the album. The Moonraker hijacking, freefall and Venini Glass cues, among others.

    peter wrote: »
    I still have a blast with AVTAK's soundtrack, although it is OP-lite (OP the last, great Barry soundtrack, IMO)
    Funny, I find AVTAK to be the more inspired and interesting score of the two. The love theme, the action theme, even the suspense music is more interesting (Tibbett Gets Washed Out and Bond Escapes Roller > The Chase Bomb Theme and 009 Gets the Knife).

    ---

    Personally, of the late era Barry scores I rank TMWTGG and AVTAK higher than MR, OP and TLD. I love all of them, however.

    ToTheRight wrote: »
    My least favorite Barry rendition of the gunbarrel is probably in MR as well. Still, I'll take that over Newman and Arnold's gunbarrels any day as well.
    I love the MR gunbarrel, but if it's not presumptuous of me to say, I also totally understand why it's your least favorite of Barry's. At least there is nothing generic about its instrumentation, which Arnold and Newman's gunbarrels are somewhat guilty of.

    I love that Barry had given his GB's a different style for Roger than with Sean. Strings as opposed to the electric guitar. I feel it took until OP for Barry to perfect his Roger style gunbarrel. I like the opening chords in the MR gunbarrel. Stands out among the rest. However, AVTAK's opening GB chords pack a but more punch to me.
    Actually, I may have just changed my mind here. The Barry GB for TMWTGG might actually be my least favorite of that batch. The melody is played three times as instead of two, and much faster. Fits the film, though.
    Tough call. Either way, I'll take any Barry gunbarrel over everything that's been done since he left.

    For me, TMWTGG, MR and AVTAK > OP and TLD. All good though.

    OP and TLD are too similar. I wish Barry had used the drum machine for the TLD GB. Would've been distinctive, as well as appropriate given the rest of the score.

    Of the post-Barry ones, I like the LTK GB. In the Music of James Bond documentary, at the end, the interviewed people sing the Bond theme. Michael Kamen goes nuts, almost headbanging to it. I sense that same enthusiasm in his GB. Exciting and dangerous.

    Conti also injected some adrenaline into his GB. It was great. Barry's GBs tended to be more restrained and/or sedate, so shaking things up from time to time with other composers was a good idea.

    Edit: I think he also grew a little bored with the James Bond Theme. During the making of OHMSS, he asked Peter Hunt, "do we have to have that Bond theme in there again?" Of course, his lack of a composer credit for it might've had something to do with his lack of enthusiasm.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,020
    bondjames wrote: »
    A few numbers in the Spectre score are quite good, but most of it isn’t great.
    Agreed. Some decent motifs but in the end it comes up woefully short, primarily on account of the action scoring being weak. It's not Newman's strong suit imho.
    Of his action music, I enjoy the pieces heard in the Skyfall PTS and the Spectre car chase the most, while the music heard in London in Skyfall I enjoy the least.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think I’m partial to Barry’s more “sweeping” epic-sounding scores, hence why I particularly like Moonraker and (outside Bond) Out of Africa.

    I find them soothing and calming.

  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    edited September 2018 Posts: 3,996
    peter wrote: »
    I remember discovering TLD score had been reissued on CD with the score in its entirety. I was so pleased as its such an outstanding piece of work. The action cues are top notch and much of the score is romantic and epic.
    His last Bond score was one of his best IMO

    Dammit men! after what you and @RC7 have said today, I'm going to make a very cold and very stiff, tall drink. Head into my den. Put on my Beats.... and let the magic happen...

    (clothing optional)

    Sounds decadent... :)
  • Posts: 19,339
    peter wrote: »
    I remember discovering TLD score had been reissued on CD with the score in its entirety. I was so pleased as its such an outstanding piece of work. The action cues are top notch and much of the score is romantic and epic.
    His last Bond score was one of his best IMO

    Dammit men! after what you and @RC7 have said today, I'm going to make a very cold and very stiff, tall drink. Head into my den. Put on my Beats.... and let the magic happen...

    (clothing optional)

    Sounds decadent... :)

    Kinky.....
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    Birdleson wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I think OP thru TLD is really strong, but I wonder if the relative apathy towards the films (not so much TLD) taints perception? I feel the same about the first few. I’m not sure they’re always consistently strong, although the high points are as good as it gets.

    If I had to pick a run I’d say YOLT - DAF is almost flawless.

    TLD is the very best JB score imo. Nothing controversial to speak highly of OP or AVTAK either, as they're both above par.

    TLD is the only Barry score that I don't care for. It's comparatively tinny, and that repeated phrase doesn't do much for me.

    The thing is that I Iove that repeated phrase in TLD. Whereas in TMWTGG those "DUH"s start to strain my patience near the end. Sometimes repetition is good, sometimes it's not.
  • edited September 2018 Posts: 64
    In terms of unpopular opinions I have a few.

    1). I am not positively in love with Sean Connery's Bond the way everyone else is. I was born in 1991 and so when I grew up Brosnan was my Bond and while I have seen every Bond film in the franchise and while I do appreciate Connery as the original Bond, he's just not my favorite. Either way, I've always hated trying to hone in on a single Bond as my favorite I'd rather say that they were each individually perfect for the era in which they played the character.

    2). I actually genuinely liked 'Quantum of Solace' and I feel like it was actually a decent follow up to 'Casino Royale'. It certainly had its problems but I'd prefer 'Quantum of Solace' to 'Octopussy' or 'Diamonds are Forever' any day.
  • mybudgetbondmybudgetbond The World
    Posts: 189

    2). I actually genuinely liked 'Quantum of Solace' and I feel like it was actually a decent follow up to 'Casino Royale'. It certainly had its problems but I'd prefer 'Quantum of Solace' to 'Octopussy' or 'Diamonds are Forever' any day.

    +1
  • Posts: 486
    In terms of unpopular opinions I have a few.

    1). I am not positively in love with Sean Connery's Bond the way everyone else is. I was born in 1991 and so when I grew up Brosnan was my Bond and while I have seen every Bond film in the franchise and while I do appreciate Connery as the original Bond, he's just not my favorite. Either way, I've always hated trying to hone in on a single Bond as my favorite I'd rather say that they were each individually perfect for the era in which they played the character.

    I'm a bit similar in that I like Connery as Bond but he's never once come remotely near to being one of my favourite Bonds. As a child when it was only ever a choice between Connery or Moore (given that OHMSS was the film no one ever spoke of back in the 80s) I preferred Roger Moore.

    Dalton went immediately to the top of the pack when he debuted and at times I've really respected Lazenby's contribution. In some respects Lazenby best captures the physical 'silhouette' of Fleming's Bond for me in the film series. I probably prefer Craig too as it's the more serious style of the Lazenby/Dalton/Craig films that I return to the most and rank the best.

    Which means that other than Brosnan who's always been my least favourite Bond by a country mile, Connery probably ranks fifth in my affections. Which seems quite bloody ridiculous really given how great and iconic Connery was! If I'd been introducted to Bond as child via the Fleming novels first perhaps I may have felt differently.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I really like OP, Moore’s best, well maybe TSWLM is, eh it flip flops for me
  • edited September 2018 Posts: 11,189
    I’ve always liked OP but of late I’ve noticed it suffers from some fairly major issues.

    -Maud Adams, though compatable with Moore, gives a very mannered performance (Moore by contrast gives one of his best).
    -the direction and use of stunt doubling is very clunky at times
    -Many of the interior locations look like sets.
    -the silliness goes a step too far on several occasions (the opening feels like it could have been from a Naked Gun film).

    That said I do like the overall story and there are some highly effective suspenseful moments.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    edited September 2018 Posts: 3,996
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I’ve always liked OP but of late I’ve noticed it suffers from some fairly major issues.

    -Maud Adams, though compatable with Moore, gives a very mannered performance (Moore by contrast gives one of his best).
    -the direction and use of stunt doubling is very clunky at times
    -Many of the interior locations look like sets.
    -the silliness goes a step too far on several occasions (the opening feels like it could have been from a Naked Gun film).

    That said I do like the overall story and there are some highly effective suspenseful moments.

    Agree with a lot of this. OP was the first Bond film i saw at the cinema since LALD and launched my interest in the world of James Bond, so its kind of special to me.

    -Maud Adams is bloody awful in it
    -The silliness does go too far especially in the Elephant hunt sequence and that bit where Moore zooms into the girls chest with the camera is horribly embarrassing.
    -But the story is a good one and the chasing the bomb scenes are exciting and suspenseful.
    -Moore is excellent in it and his confrontation with Orloff is a highlight.
    -Great action which unfortunately is sometimes marred by the slapstick.
    -Superb score from Barry, which was also the first Bond score i'd ever got.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Having just rewatched TMWTGG, I have to say, this film is often criminally underrated. It’s a fun, crazy ride from start to finish, and has some of MooreBond’s most Flemingesque moments. It’s not what I’d want every Bond film to be, but it’s wonderful for what it is. On my first viewing I actually gave up very early on and fast-forwarded to the end. Today was only my second time watching it and it has skyrocketed in my rankings now.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Having just rewatched TMWTGG, I have to say, this film is often criminally underrated. It’s a fun, crazy ride from start to finish, and has some of MooreBond’s most Flemingesque moments. It’s not what I’d want every Bond film to be, but it’s wonderful for what it is. On my first viewing I actually gave up very early on and fast-forwarded to the end. Today was only my second time watching it and it has skyrocketed in my rankings now.

    Where was it in your rankings and where is it now ?
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,244
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I’ve always liked OP but of late I’ve noticed it suffers from some fairly major issues.

    -Maud Adams, though compatable with Moore, gives a very mannered performance (Moore by contrast gives one of his best).
    -the direction and use of stunt doubling is very clunky at times
    -Many of the interior locations look like sets.
    -the silliness goes a step too far on several occasions (the opening feels like it could have been from a Naked Gun film).

    That said I do like the overall story and there are some highly effective suspenseful moments.

    Agree with a lot of this. OP was the first Bond film i saw at the cinema since LALD and launched my interest in the world of James Bond, so its kind of special to me.

    -Maud Adams is bloody awful in it
    -The silliness does go too far especially in the Elephant hunt sequence and that bit where Moore zooms into the girls chest with the camera is horribly embarrassing.
    -But the story is a good one and the chasing the bomb scenes are exciting and suspenseful.
    -Moore is excellent in it and his confrontation with Orloff is a highlight.
    -Great action which unfortunately is sometimes marred by the slapstick.
    -Superb score from Barry, which was also the first Bond score i'd ever got.

    Completely agree with all these points. Never understood why Agda isn't Octopussy instead of Maud. She's so much more interesting and misterious.
  • Posts: 19,339
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I’ve always liked OP but of late I’ve noticed it suffers from some fairly major issues.

    -Maud Adams, though compatable with Moore, gives a very mannered performance (Moore by contrast gives one of his best).
    -the direction and use of stunt doubling is very clunky at times
    -Many of the interior locations look like sets.
    -the silliness goes a step too far on several occasions (the opening feels like it could have been from a Naked Gun film).

    That said I do like the overall story and there are some highly effective suspenseful moments.

    Agree with a lot of this. OP was the first Bond film i saw at the cinema since LALD and launched my interest in the world of James Bond, so its kind of special to me.

    -Maud Adams is bloody awful in it
    -The silliness does go too far especially in the Elephant hunt sequence and that bit where Moore zooms into the girls chest with the camera is horribly embarrassing.
    -But the story is a good one and the chasing the bomb scenes are exciting and suspenseful.
    -Moore is excellent in it and his confrontation with Orloff is a highlight.
    -Great action which unfortunately is sometimes marred by the slapstick.
    -Superb score from Barry, which was also the first Bond score i'd ever got.

    Completely agree with all these points. Never understood why Agda isn't Octopussy instead of Maud. She's so much more interesting and misterious.

    Magda,Rossy ;)

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Having just rewatched TMWTGG, I have to say, this film is often criminally underrated. It’s a fun, crazy ride from start to finish, and has some of MooreBond’s most Flemingesque moments. It’s not what I’d want every Bond film to be, but it’s wonderful for what it is. On my first viewing I actually gave up very early on and fast-forwarded to the end. Today was only my second time watching it and it has skyrocketed in my rankings now.
    One of my sentimental favourites. I'm glad you like it mo'o're. Roger is quite sublime in it and I find it such fun.
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I’ve always liked OP but of late I’ve noticed it suffers from some fairly major issues.

    -Maud Adams, though compatable with Moore, gives a very mannered performance (Moore by contrast gives one of his best).
    -the direction and use of stunt doubling is very clunky at times
    -Many of the interior locations look like sets.
    -the silliness goes a step too far on several occasions (the opening feels like it could have been from a Naked Gun film).

    That said I do like the overall story and there are some highly effective suspenseful moments.

    Agree with a lot of this. OP was the first Bond film i saw at the cinema since LALD and launched my interest in the world of James Bond, so its kind of special to me.

    -Maud Adams is bloody awful in it
    -The silliness does go too far especially in the Elephant hunt sequence and that bit where Moore zooms into the girls chest with the camera is horribly embarrassing.
    -But the story is a good one and the chasing the bomb scenes are exciting and suspenseful.
    -Moore is excellent in it and his confrontation with Orloff is a highlight.
    -Great action which unfortunately is sometimes marred by the slapstick.
    -Superb score from Barry, which was also the first Bond score i'd ever got.
    I'm a huge OP fan and always have been. The only problem I have with it is the juvenile humour which goes too far, and the ending at the Monsoon Palace which is very anticlimactic and silly with all those circus girls jumping around and Q being a buffoon. If that were stripped out, this would easily be a top 10 flick for me.
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