Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • I agree about Moore's levels of nuance and subtlety being underrated.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Strog wrote: »
    Roger isn't a gifted and varied performer as DC.
    You're emphasizing the quality of variety, presumably the ability to capture a variety of emotions? And then on top of that, the ability to capture those emotions realistically? And here I'd agree that DC is better.

    But for me where Rog exceeds DC -- and this is far from an original observation -- is in his ability to hit a variety of tones, which is a gift in itself and not to be dismissed. A lot of performers wish that was in their tool bag, or should.

    This is no slight against Dan of course. I love what he's done. But just because, in TSWLM, Rog couldn't pull off as well as DC might be able to the scene where Bond admits to Anya that he killed her lover (though Rog does pull it off, and that's key), I don't think DC could've done nearly as well as Rog in, let's say, the scene where Bond and Anya are in the van and Jaws is trying to get in.

    This is the key point for me. There are different aspects to acting. Some actors are better at some things than others, and versatility and depth are not the only important or valuable qualities that an actor can possess.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Roadphill wrote: »
    The funny thing is, even though Craig is clearly a good actor, I just don't find him that engaging to watch. I don't wether it's his look, voice or just the 'cut of his jib', something just doesn't appeal to me.

    Anyway for a perhaps controversial, perhaps not opinion- I think Dalton did what Craig does, but did it better.

    I’m the opposite. Though I used to think the same as you. Craig’s acting is a bit more understated compared to Dalton’s, who tended to be intense and dramatic in his mannerisms.


  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    edited October 2018 Posts: 1,889
    I've never had any issues with the firetruck chase in AVTAK. I know it's very 80s and just seems like an excuse to have cop cars crash into each other, but it's an interesting concept. It also follows the entertaining template of increasing the stakes/danger as time goes on; traffic, cops arrive, Stacey must drive, the ladder unbuckles, and then the bridge. No complaints from me.
  • Posts: 15,110
    Controversial opinion about a Bond movie that does not exist yet: I was not enthusiastic about Danny Boyle being director and thought it was a dangerous decision that could have easily backfired.
  • Posts: 17,753
    I've never had any issues with the firetruck chase in AVTAK. I know it's very 80s and just seems like an excuse to have cop cars crash into each other, but it's an interesting concept. It also follows the entertaining template of increasing the stakes/danger as time goes on; traffic, cops arrive, Stacey must drive, the ladder unbuckles, and then the bridge. No complaints from me.

    Always enjoyed the firetruck chase! One of the highlights of the film, IMO.
  • Posts: 7,507
    I've never had any issues with the firetruck chase in AVTAK. I know it's very 80s and just seems like an excuse to have cop cars crash into each other, but it's an interesting concept. It also follows the entertaining template of increasing the stakes/danger as time goes on; traffic, cops arrive, Stacey must drive, the ladder unbuckles, and then the bridge. No complaints from me.


    The scene would be so much better without the campy humor...
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Controversial opinion about a Bond movie that does not exist yet: I was not enthusiastic about Danny Boyle being director and thought it was a dangerous decision that could have easily backfired.

    I think several of us felt that way.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    I have just done a Bond rewatch, and finished the Brosnan era.

    Controversial opinion, TWINE is even worse than DAD. Whilst DAD is far from being a good film, it doesn't try to be anything, other than ludicrous and over the top.

    TWINE, on the other hand, tries to sell itself as a somewhat serious film. The tone is all over the place, the locations are uninspired. The acting, Broz and Dame Judi aside, is poor. The action scene's boring. Electra could have been an interesting villain, if her turn wasn't so obviously telegraphed. The whole thing is a mess.

    Brosnan, described Spectre as neither "Fish nor Fowl". I think that perfectly describes TWINE, and not in a good way.
  • Posts: 15,110
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Controversial opinion about a Bond movie that does not exist yet: I was not enthusiastic about Danny Boyle being director and thought it was a dangerous decision that could have easily backfired.

    I think several of us felt that way.

    I still think it's controversial as the news of Boyle as director for Bond was generally greeted with enthusiasm. I was happy there was someone hired, but I feared a new Tamahori. We'll never know of course.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I agree about Moore's levels of nuance and subtlety being underrated.
    I think he was an exceptional James Bond. He always delivered an internally consistent version of his interpretation. It never seemed fake or like acting to me. I feel the same about Connery too. No matter what was thrown at them, their characterization (like it or not) was internally consistent and tonally appropriate in all cases. That's saying something.
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Anyway for a perhaps controversial, perhaps not opinion- I think Dalton did what Craig does, but did it better.
    I am increasingly of the same opinion. I prefer Dalton's interpretation of the character. It's less subtle, but there's something quite authentic and 'real' about his version. When younger I found it too flappable (especially in comparison to his cool predecessors), but now I appreciate it a lot. He was a convincing wounded Bond despite not having all the backstory for his characterization to rely on.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited October 2018 Posts: 4,615
    I think Tom Mackiewicz was one of the worst screenwriters for Bond. Same with Guy Hamilton, apart from Goldfinger. They stayed on too long at the wrong time. And gave us J.W. Pepper, the most useless character in the series history. Too much silliness for James Bond!
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    I've never had any issues with the firetruck chase in AVTAK. I know it's very 80s and just seems like an excuse to have cop cars crash into each other, but it's an interesting concept. It also follows the entertaining template of increasing the stakes/danger as time goes on; traffic, cops arrive, Stacey must drive, the ladder unbuckles, and then the bridge. No complaints from me.

    Always enjoyed the firetruck chase! One of the highlights of the film, IMO.

    I personally wouldn't go that far. I like too many scenes from AVTAK for this to be near the top. ;)

    jobo wrote: »
    The scene would be so much better without the campy humor...

    Which one can say of any of Moore's Bond films.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,287
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I think Tom Mackiewicz was one of the worst screenwriters for Bond. Same with Guy Hamilton, apart from Goldfinger. They stayed on too long at the wrong time. And gave us J.W. Pepper, the most useless character in the series history. Too much silliness for James Bond!

    That is somewhat controversial! I like J.W. Pepper--in small doses--but the boat chase could have been about half its length (and I'd like more of Martin's score in there).

    What was lousy was when they tried to copy J.W. Pepper later, as in the Keystone Cop from AVTAK.
  • Posts: 7,507
    I've never had any issues with the firetruck chase in AVTAK. I know it's very 80s and just seems like an excuse to have cop cars crash into each other, but it's an interesting concept. It also follows the entertaining template of increasing the stakes/danger as time goes on; traffic, cops arrive, Stacey must drive, the ladder unbuckles, and then the bridge. No complaints from me.

    Always enjoyed the firetruck chase! One of the highlights of the film, IMO.

    I personally wouldn't go that far. I like too many scenes from AVTAK for this to be near the top. ;)

    jobo wrote: »
    The scene would be so much better without the campy humor...

    Which one can say of any of Moore's Bond films.


    Some films/scenes are more cringe worthy than others though...
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Don’t know if this is controversial but

    I think that Sheriff pepper is fantastic, in both his appearances. He wouldn’t work in a Craig or Connery film but he is amazing in his two Moore appearances
  • edited October 2018 Posts: 16,153
    Don’t know if this is controversial but

    I think that Sheriff pepper is fantastic, in both his appearances. He wouldn’t work in a Craig or Connery film but he is amazing in his two Moore appearances

    I'm a big Sheriff JW Pepper fan as well. As outlandishly ridiculous as it is, I really love his appearance in TMWTGG. I think he's hilarious.


    @JamesBondKenya, one of the things I like about your post is the positivity.
    On this controversial opinion thread it's easy to get caught up in negative controversial opinions (FRWL is the worst Bond film ever, Daniel Craig sucks, and so forth).

    That inspires me, so I'll try here:

    I find Norman Burton to be one of the stronger Leiters. After watching DAF yesterday, I must say I've grown to appreciate his Felix far more than I ever did. He has genuinely solid chemistry with Connery, gets a decent amount of screen time and overall was well cast, considering the tone the film was going for.


    NSNA feels classic and more like real James Bond film with each passing era. I've always loved it.

    Timothy Dalton looks great in LTK, especially rocking that navy blue tie-less suit during the tanker climax.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Don’t know if this is controversial but

    I think that Sheriff pepper is fantastic, in both his appearances. He wouldn’t work in a Craig or Connery film but he is amazing in his two Moore appearances

    Agreed. I love Pepper.
  • ToTheRight wrote: »
    That inspires me, so I'll try here:

    I find Norman Burton to be one of the stronger Leiters. After watching DAF yesterday, I must say I've grown to appreciate his Felix far more than I ever did. He has genuinely solid chemistry with Connery, gets a decent amount of screen time and overall was well cast, considering the tone the film was going for.


    OK, here's one:

    Reading the books, I always found Mathis to be a far more compelling character than Leiter.

    It's a bit disappointing to me that the films have always worked hard to bring in Felix, and that Mathis - who was off to a great start! - was killed off in QOS.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    octofinger wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    That inspires me, so I'll try here:

    I find Norman Burton to be one of the stronger Leiters. After watching DAF yesterday, I must say I've grown to appreciate his Felix far more than I ever did. He has genuinely solid chemistry with Connery, gets a decent amount of screen time and overall was well cast, considering the tone the film was going for.


    OK, here's one:

    Reading the books, I always found Mathis to be a far more compelling character than Leiter.

    It's a bit disappointing to me that the films have always worked hard to bring in Felix, and that Mathis - who was off to a great start! - was killed off in QOS.

    That's not a bad shout, actually.
  • Posts: 7,507
    octofinger wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    That inspires me, so I'll try here:

    I find Norman Burton to be one of the stronger Leiters. After watching DAF yesterday, I must say I've grown to appreciate his Felix far more than I ever did. He has genuinely solid chemistry with Connery, gets a decent amount of screen time and overall was well cast, considering the tone the film was going for.


    OK, here's one:

    Reading the books, I always found Mathis to be a far more compelling character than Leiter.

    It's a bit disappointing to me that the films have always worked hard to bring in Felix, and that Mathis - who was off to a great start! - was killed off in QOS.


    Totally agree!
  • Posts: 11,189
    Mathis was only really in the CR novel though wasn’t he?! His appearance at the end of FRWL wasn’t much more than a cameo.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Don’t know if this is controversial but

    I think that Sheriff pepper is fantastic, in both his appearances. He wouldn’t work in a Craig or Connery film but he is amazing in his two Moore appearances
    I'm a huge fan of Pepper as well. I was actually quite surprised to learn that there were folks out there who disliked him, and only discovered that after I joined this site. To an extent I actually prefer him in TMWTGG in comparison to LALD, although he's great in both. I like his chubby caricature of an American tourist wife too.

    About a decade ago I was in Munich visiting my sister during Oktoberfest and overindulged. I was late to the airport the next day and remember running anxiously down the hall looking for my plane's gate (I had a brutal hangover and so it didn't initially compute that the number was obviously on my boarding pass). I came across a section with a bunch of seated folks who looked far more overfed than the rest (and far more casually dressed and noisy to boot). One quick look up at the display confirmed I was at the right spot. I remember J.W and his wife flashing across my mind briefly along with a sense of relief that I had found my flight back home.
  • Posts: 15,110
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I think Tom Mackiewicz was one of the worst screenwriters for Bond. Same with Guy Hamilton, apart from Goldfinger. They stayed on too loong at the wrong time. And gave us J.W. Pepper, the most useless character in the series history. Too much silliness for James Bond!

    I don't think your comment about Tom Mackiewicz is controversial.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I like Pepper in LALD but he’s loud, irritating and unnecessary in GG.
  • Posts: 1,917
    jobo wrote: »
    I've never had any issues with the firetruck chase in AVTAK. I know it's very 80s and just seems like an excuse to have cop cars crash into each other, but it's an interesting concept. It also follows the entertaining template of increasing the stakes/danger as time goes on; traffic, cops arrive, Stacey must drive, the ladder unbuckles, and then the bridge. No complaints from me.


    The scene would be so much better without the campy humor...
    Exactly, and you could say this about the whole film, with touches like adding California Girls on the soundtrack and the iceberg sub in the pre-titles, the rescue from the city hall fire intercut with the drunk hobo, etc.

    On the one hand they want to present a more scaled-back, more world-weary Moore Bond but still want to insert the dumb humor. Any increasing of stakes is lost because there's more emphasis on turning Moore Bond into a Harold Lloyd physical comedian in the chase rather than upping the stakes in the suspense and action.

    It's very a very American touch with the humor and I can only wonder what fans in other countries thought about these scenes at the time since they made me embarrassed to be a Bond fan at that point. They should've left Moore's involvement in comedy car chase/crash stuff to the Burt Reynolds Cannonball Run movies.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,248
    bondjames wrote: »
    Don’t know if this is controversial but

    I think that Sheriff pepper is fantastic, in both his appearances. He wouldn’t work in a Craig or Connery film but he is amazing in his two Moore appearances
    I'm a huge fan of Pepper as well. I was actually quite surprised to learn that there were folks out there who disliked him, and only discovered that after I joined this site. To an extent I actually prefer him in TMWTGG in comparison to LALD, although he's great in both. I like his chubby caricature of an American tourist wife too.

    About a decade ago I was in Munich visiting my sister during Oktoberfest and overindulged. I was late to the airport the next day and remember running anxiously down the hall looking for my plane's gate (I had a brutal hangover and so it didn't initially compute that the number was obviously on my boarding pass). I came across a section with a bunch of seated folks who looked far more overfed than the rest (and far more casually dressed and noisy to boot). One quick look up at the display confirmed I was at the right spot. I remember J.W and his wife flashing across my mind briefly along with a sense of relief that I had found my flight back home.

    I think that's why he appeals to me too. The guy may be a stereotype, he's played with such sincerity that he doesn't come over as beeing over the top, rather then a back-waters oddball getting cought up in something far bigger then he'll be able to understand but still trying to keep up and play his part 'A secret agent?!?!?! On who's side?!?!?!?'.

    And yes, American tourists are that recogniseable. ;-)
  • bondjames wrote: »
    I agree about Moore's levels of nuance and subtlety being underrated.
    I think he was an exceptional James Bond. He always delivered an internally consistent version of his interpretation. It never seemed fake or like acting to me. I feel the same about Connery too. No matter what was thrown at them, their characterization (like it or not) was internally consistent and tonally appropriate in all cases. That's saying something.

    This is absolutely on the mark. Well said. Regardless of the assessment of his "acting skills," I think one that is oft-overlooked is how lived-in he made the role feel. That is far more difficult to convey than, say, Craig's burning blue eyes of a thousand stars. Craig is a fantastic actor, and I'm not even saying that Moore is a better actor than Craig, but to dismiss the subtle tics here and there to Moore's performances as well as what you call "internal consistency," is unfair to Moore's acting skills.

    That is truly saying something. He and Connery both did that. It never, ever felt like acting, which would be more understandable for Connery, given that he set the template, but certainly Moore was working uphill to establish that same internal consistency so the fact that he was able to do that -- to make the character feel lived-in and real -- is impressive. It's why I'll always consider him second best, or tied for second best.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I can t see anyone surpassing Connery and Moore as quintessential Bond for the foreseeable future.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    I can t see anyone surpassing Connery and Moore as quintessential Bond for the foreseeable future.

    You don’t need to look any further than the very best. :D giphy.gif
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