Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Brosnan looked like he'd been forced fed in DAD.

    North Korean torture technique.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    octofinger wrote: »
    Related, and possibly not controversial:

    Pierce aged the best of the lot, and even looked like a credible agent in something like The November Man, filmed 20 years after GE.

    Second place is Dalton.

    I'd say Connery aged the worst. at least during his Bond tenure. In YOLT he looks like a completely different man. In DAF he behaves like a completely different man too.

    The one who aged best overall I think was Roger Moore. Yes he was too old in AVTAK, even in FYEO to be honest, but before then he looked fine and younger than his age.

    I agree. Connery in TB and YOLT is like night and day. In DAF it doesn't even look like him in most areas. Except during his meet with Blofeld in the Whyte House.
    Physically I could perhaps agree about Connery, although to be honest I think a lot of it had to do with his weight, his toupee and his eyebrows. He looked much better later in life when he got those elements under control, so I don't think it was so much an age thing as a presentation thing with him. Plus he still had that youthful spark and humour in his later Bond films, so when I view YOLT & DAF he comes across like a younger man to me. He was never a grump.

    Moore always looked good for his age in general, and especially when he started (difficult to believe he was just 3 years younger than Brosnan in DAD and 4 years younger than Craig now when LALD was released). Again, like Connery he had that youthful spark to his personality which belied his years. By AVTAK he was past it though, at least imho.

    That's why I said Connery aged the worst during his tenure. He may have had a spark, but he came off as an out of shape middle aged man, not a believable operative.
    He did give off a middle aged vibe, but he moved quite well despite this. The fights in particular were still sharp, especially with the Samoan in YOLT and with Franks in DAF. It's just that he was so much better in the earlier films and so I agree that the variation from peak to trough was quite severe in his case.
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Craig looks ok but tired.
    I think Craig still looks physically up to the job but facially I'm not impressed. I can appreciate that others may see this differently, but I cringe sometimes when seeing him in SP. I always get the impression some work has been done around the eye area and it looks as unnatural to me as Moore's eye job for AVTAK.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,026
    I think in spite of being portrayed as a depleted, weary old soldier who needs a cure at a health resort and to "cut out the white bread", Connery seems a whole lot fitter in NSNA than in DAF.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Connery had the ageing dad look in NSNA.
  • Posts: 2,917
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Connery had the ageing dad look in NSNA.

    Well, he was 52 years old at the time, and in all likelihood there isn't a single person on this board who will look that good at that age.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Anyone seen this article from slashfilm.com?

    https://www.slashfilm.com/quantum-of-solace-defense/

    I happen to agree with it. SF and SP were huge let-downs for me, and looking back, QoS is better than both of them...

    God, I feel as if I could have written that article.
  • Posts: 15,114
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    octofinger wrote: »
    Related, and possibly not controversial:

    Pierce aged the best of the lot, and even looked like a credible agent in something like The November Man, filmed 20 years after GE.

    Second place is Dalton.

    I'd say Connery aged the worst. at least during his Bond tenure. In YOLT he looks like a completely different man. In DAF he behaves like a completely different man too.

    The one who aged best overall I think was Roger Moore. Yes he was too old in AVTAK, even in FYEO to be honest, but before then he looked fine and younger than his age.

    I agree. Connery in TB and YOLT is like night and day. In DAF it doesn't even look like him in most areas. Except during his meet with Blofeld in the Whyte House.
    Physically I could perhaps agree about Connery, although to be honest I think a lot of it had to do with his weight, his toupee and his eyebrows. He looked much better later in life when he got those elements under control, so I don't think it was so much an age thing as a presentation thing with him. Plus he still had that youthful spark and humour in his later Bond films, so when I view YOLT & DAF he comes across like a younger man to me. He was never a grump.

    Moore always looked good for his age in general, and especially when he started (difficult to believe he was just 3 years younger than Brosnan in DAD and 4 years younger than Craig now when LALD was released). Again, like Connery he had that youthful spark to his personality which belied his years. By AVTAK he was past it though, at least imho.

    That's why I said Connery aged the worst during his tenure. He may have had a spark, but he came off as an out of shape middle aged man, not a believable operative.
    He did give off a middle aged vibe, but he moved quite well despite this. The fights in particular were still sharp, especially with the Samoan in YOLT and with Franks in DAF. It's just that he was so much better in the earlier films and so I agree that the variation from peak to trough was quite severe in his case.
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Craig looks ok but tired.
    I think Craig still looks physically up to the job but facially I'm not impressed. I can appreciate that others may see this differently, but I cringe sometimes when seeing him in SP. I always get the impression some work has been done around the eye area and it looks as unnatural to me as Moore's eye job for AVTAK.

    I rewatched the fights against Frank recently and I was not impressed with it as I used to. It felt more slapstick than brutal and a tad slow. But I think Guy Hamilton was a poor fight director overall. They often end up slow and unconvincing, with too much comedy thrown in them.

    For Craig I've seen his recent pictures with his baby daughter and he looks very good for a new dad.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Don't know how old @talos7 is but the man's in exceptionally good shape. I'm four years older than Connery in DAF and keep my body fat % low and skeletal muscle mass very high.

    I'm measurably stronger than I was a decade ago (with proper training and progressive programming this will happen-- it's a way of tapping into all the chemicals and excretion of natural human growth hormones and testosterone (the likes of which "they" say diminishes with time, but, as science proves, you have to be moving, pushing and pulling to continue to release these wonderful things (and not sitting on our asses doing nothing))).

    I intend to beat Connery's look when i'm 52/53, mainly because I want to keep my beautiful wife interested in "other sports", lol...
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Talos is my age. Wouldn't know it to look at us.

    yes, obvious this guy is a beast.

    But @Birdleson , you are just as sexy a beast in your own way-- can @talos7 play the guitar??? If he can, not as well as you. At least, not from where I'm standing.
  • Posts: 1,917
    Anyone seen this article from slashfilm.com?

    https://www.slashfilm.com/quantum-of-solace-defense/

    I happen to agree with it. SF and SP were huge let-downs for me, and looking back, QoS is better than both of them...

    The movement continues. Nice to see those outside of the Bond fan circles are taking notice and finding SF to be less than the sum of its parts, which I thought from first viewing.

  • Posts: 1,917
    Ludovico wrote: »

    I rewatched the fights against Frank recently and I was not impressed with it as I used to. It felt more slapstick than brutal and a tad slow. But I think Guy Hamilton was a poor fight director overall. They often end up slow and unconvincing, with too much comedy thrown in them.
    Interesting view. I too watched it recently and didn't think it had lost anything. It's one of the few serious, suspenseful and more vicious throwbacks to the early days in a film filled with camp and goofiness.

    Curious, just where was the slapstick or comedy?

    This was the first film without Peter Hunt's fast editing, but I'm not sure it was necessarily slow. Definitely agree that Hamilton is perhaps the most lacking director when it comes to fights. It would get even worse in the Moore era. It only boosts Terence Young's credibility more in my eyes.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    if you are, we WILL have a great meet-up. We're a great city.
  • Posts: 15,114
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »

    I rewatched the fights against Frank recently and I was not impressed with it as I used to. It felt more slapstick than brutal and a tad slow. But I think Guy Hamilton was a poor fight director overall. They often end up slow and unconvincing, with too much comedy thrown in them.
    Interesting view. I too watched it recently and didn't think it had lost anything. It's one of the few serious, suspenseful and more vicious throwbacks to the early days in a film filled with camp and goofiness.

    Curious, just where was the slapstick or comedy?

    This was the first film without Peter Hunt's fast editing, but I'm not sure it was necessarily slow. Definitely agree that Hamilton is perhaps the most lacking director when it comes to fights. It would get even worse in the Moore era. It only boosts Terence Young's credibility more in my eyes.

    Maybe slapstick is not the right term, but I didn't find it as brutal as I remembered. There's that whole thing with the fire extinguisher that takes me away from it. I don't think this particular fight was slow, but overall the fights in the Hamilton movies tend to be.
  • edited November 2018 Posts: 11,189
    It’s not as brutal or intense as some of the earlier fights and feels like it goes on for too long.

    I’m always gripped by the likes of the FRWL train fight but here I always find my attention wandering towards the end of the sequence when it really shouldn’t. The editing probably played a part in that plus the fact that I’m not really interested in that Franks bloke. It’s not so much slapstick as it is the relative lack of energy.
  • Posts: 15,114
    Franks is not exactly set up as a Grant type villain either. He's just there to be killed.
  • Ludovico wrote: »
    Franks is not exactly set up as a Grant type villain either. He's just there to be killed.

    This is a good point. He's not at all physically imposing, and is sort of dressed like a middle-manager: I don't feel like he represents any great threat. If we had learned that Franks was famously feared in the underground ("you just killed James Bond!"), that might have added some tension.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,583
    I watched the Bond-Franks fight last night and I'm still not sure how he actually died by falling like 3 feet. Bond took the elevator down for like 2 seconds. Unless the fire foam melted his face
  • Posts: 15,114
    I watched the Bond-Franks fight last night and I'm still not sure how he actually died by falling like 3 feet. Bond took the elevator down for like 2 seconds. Unless the fire foam melted his face

    I think that's what sinks it for me: that foam. It's like a pie in the face joke. It gives a comedic turn to the whole thing.

    @octofinger it's like two middle aged men who had too many pints on a Friday night after work and get in a row. DAF must be quite poor overall for people to think this fight is the highlight of the movie.
  • edited November 2018 Posts: 11,189

    @octofinger it's like two middle aged men who had too many pints on a Friday night after work and get in a row.

    That’s a good comparison.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I watched the Bond-Franks fight last night and I'm still not sure how he actually died by falling like 3 feet. Bond took the elevator down for like 2 seconds. Unless the fire foam melted his face

    I think that's what sinks it for me: that foam. It's like a pie in the face joke. It gives a comedic turn to the whole thing.

    @octofinger it's like two middle aged men who had too many pints on a Friday night after work and get in a row. DAF must be quite poor overall for people to think this fight is the highlight of the movie.


    Well... it is a poor movie. I know it has its fans, but still I am always surprised when I read or hear positive remarks about it. There is just hardly anything I enjoy about it at all. I appreciate it as a member of the Bond family, nothing more.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I think that's what sinks it for me: that foam. It's like a pie in the face joke. It gives a comedic turn to the whole thing.

    I love how Bond is smiling as he sprays Franks' face with the foam.
  • Posts: 15,114
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I think that's what sinks it for me: that foam. It's like a pie in the face joke. It gives a comedic turn to the whole thing.

    I love how Bond is smiling as he sprays Franks' face with the foam.

    Takes away the tension. And Bond is far from the lethal assassin he's meant to be there. I think I prefer the ice hockey fight scene.

    @jobo DAF is like the pudgy, drunken, ignorant know-it-all uncle in a family reunion. Sure he's family, but that's all he is.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I think that's what sinks it for me: that foam. It's like a pie in the face joke. It gives a comedic turn to the whole thing.

    I love how Bond is smiling as he sprays Franks' face with the foam.

    Takes away the tension. And Bond is far from the lethal assassin he's meant to be there. I think I prefer the ice hockey fight scene.

    @jobo DAF is like the pudgy, drunken, ignorant know-it-all uncle in a family reunion. Sure he's family, but that's all he is.


    Exactly! (On both points)
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,113
    Anyone seen this article from slashfilm.com?

    https://www.slashfilm.com/quantum-of-solace-defense/

    I happen to agree with it. SF and SP were huge let-downs for me, and looking back, QoS is better than both of them...

    Difficult to take the writer of the article serious when the first sentence reads:

    Casino Royale (2006) is not only the best of Daniel Craig’s James Bond movies, but it’s the best Bond movie period. That’s just factual and not up for debate, (...)

    That is a load of nonsense. You might consider CR the best Bond film, but proclaiming that’s not even up for debate is beyond ridiculous.

    Nevertheless, I do agree QOS is Craig’s second best 007 outing though.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,583
    It's not a great film by any means and probably the least Bondian film in the cannon, but it's one of my go-tos and I always enjoy it. My second favorite Connery
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    It's not a great film by any means and probably the least Bondian film in the cannon, but it's one of my go-tos and I always enjoy it. My second favorite Connery
    When I was a kid I loved it. Then I began to dislike it a lot. Now I love it again. The same thing has happened with MR.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    It's not a great film by any means and probably the least Bondian film in the cannon, but it's one of my go-tos and I always enjoy it. My second favorite Connery

    I thought you were talking about QOS and I was totally on board.
  • Posts: 7,507
    bondjames wrote: »
    It's not a great film by any means and probably the least Bondian film in the cannon, but it's one of my go-tos and I always enjoy it. My second favorite Connery
    When I was a kid I loved it. Then I began to dislike it a lot. Now I love it again. The same thing has happened with MR.


    May I ask what it is that you love?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2018 Posts: 23,883
    jobo wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    It's not a great film by any means and probably the least Bondian film in the cannon, but it's one of my go-tos and I always enjoy it. My second favorite Connery
    When I was a kid I loved it. Then I began to dislike it a lot. Now I love it again. The same thing has happened with MR.


    May I ask what it is that you love?
    In DAF it's the dialogue, wit, humour & score, as well as the campy charisma of the characters (including Gray's Blofeld, Wint & Kidd, Bambi & Thumper etc. etc.). There's an assuredness to the whole thing that extends to Connery's performance and confident delivery. As though everyone knows how ridiculous it is and doesn't care. I quite like the pacing of it too, as I never find myself bored. The banter between Connery and Gray is also entertaining.

    I don't rank it high, but it is a 'go-to' film of mine when I want a fun quick fix of Bond.
  • Posts: 15,114
    I rewatched the elevator fight scene and it's worse than I remembered. The fight starts as Bond makes a blunder breaking that glass raising his arm to punch Peter Franks. It starts with a joke. He finally gets the upper hand with the equivalent of a pie in the face. That's the best Hamilton could come up with?
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