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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    ShakenNotStirred wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    The missteps of OP could be so easily fixed....

    That is my sentiment with all of the Glen films, save one. Some pruning could give us four viable Top Ten Bond films. The odd one out is AVTAK; love it or hate it or be so-so about it, but it is what it is to the core and no trimming is really going to change that.

    Exactly right. AVTAK is already perfect! ;)

    It’s a better swansong for a long-running Bond than DAF and DAD for my money.

    That's the only saving grace as far as I'm concerned.

    I'm wondering if having Dalton as Bond and tailored AVTAK to him might have improved the movie tremendously, or if it could have easily destroyed Dalton's tenure before it even started and the franchise with him. I think only Moore could get away with AVTAK, just like only Connery could get away with DAF.

    I don't know. In essence, AVTAK seems like a fairly straightforward Bond film. I think it would've suited several Bond actors.

    It has American big names in the cast who could have easily overshadowed a new Bond actor and it has a lot of silly moments the public may have found unforgivable if it wasn't for Moore.

    I see. I ignored those elements as you suggested they might've tailored the film for Dalton. I'd imagine had Dalton been Bond in AVTAK, they would've toned down the silliness and cast different actors. Therefore I don't see how it could've destroyed his tenure. In terms of the story, the film is relatively grounded, and would be a reasonable first film for a new Bond actor.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,821
    w2bond wrote: »
    Shoot me, but I also like checking the time in Gorilla suit. Therefore I don't have much to fault about Octopussy. I'm not particularly fond of the theme song but it sounds fine in the score

    Always liked All Time High. One of those Bond songs I find myself humming now and then.
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,618
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    Shoot me, but I also like checking the time in Gorilla suit. Therefore I don't have much to fault about Octopussy. I'm not particularly fond of the theme song but it sounds fine in the score

    Always liked All Time High. One of those Bond songs I find myself humming now and then.

    It comes on the radio a lot. Have always like it!
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,231
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    ShakenNotStirred wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    The missteps of OP could be so easily fixed....

    That is my sentiment with all of the Glen films, save one. Some pruning could give us four viable Top Ten Bond films. The odd one out is AVTAK; love it or hate it or be so-so about it, but it is what it is to the core and no trimming is really going to change that.

    Exactly right. AVTAK is already perfect! ;)

    It’s a better swansong for a long-running Bond than DAF and DAD for my money.

    That's the only saving grace as far as I'm concerned.

    I'm wondering if having Dalton as Bond and tailored AVTAK to him might have improved the movie tremendously, or if it could have easily destroyed Dalton's tenure before it even started and the franchise with him. I think only Moore could get away with AVTAK, just like only Connery could get away with DAF.

    I don't know. In essence, AVTAK seems like a fairly straightforward Bond film. I think it would've suited several Bond actors.

    It has American big names in the cast who could have easily overshadowed a new Bond actor and it has a lot of silly moments the public may have found unforgivable if it wasn't for Moore.

    I see. I ignored those elements as you suggested they might've tailored the film for Dalton. I'd imagine had Dalton been Bond in AVTAK, they would've toned down the silliness and cast different actors. Therefore I don't see how it could've destroyed his tenure. In terms of the story, the film is relatively grounded, and would be a reasonable first film for a new Bond actor.

    The film would have needed drastic modifications with Dalton in it. Or Brosnan for that matter. But was the public ready to let Moore go at that point, as well as his kind of Bond movies? (Although AVTAK often feels like a caricature of a Moore Bond.) I'm not sure.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,387
    Yes, agreed that AVTAK often feels like a caricature...I guess the high points are the stunts, and the eclectic cast (Walken, Jones, and Macnee in particular). It's one of the more interestingly-cast Bonds.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,523
    AVTAK has its notable flaws - most particularly a bad main Bond girl - but it is such a fun movie. Christopher Walken’s Max Zorin ranks as one of the series’ best villains. May Day is a memorable henchwoman. Moore, while too old at this point, is still fun to watch as Bond. The title song is one of the best and I also love Barry’s soundtrack. I find myself enjoying AVTAK more and more every time I see it.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,214
    I know many people wish Surrender would have been TND’s title song, but I honeslty like Sheryl Crow’s title song too.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,602
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I know many people wish Surrender would have been TND’s title song, but I honeslty like Sheryl Crow’s title song too.

    Crows song was my favorite until Cornell's You Know My Name
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,387
    I like Crow's song as well.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,231
    FoxRox wrote: »
    AVTAK has its notable flaws - most particularly a bad main Bond girl - but it is such a fun movie. Christopher Walken’s Max Zorin ranks as one of the series’ best villains. May Day is a memorable henchwoman. Moore, while too old at this point, is still fun to watch as Bond. The title song is one of the best and I also love Barry’s soundtrack. I find myself enjoying AVTAK more and more every time I see it.

    I think Zorin is one of the worst villains of the franchise. Too youthful, not menacing enough, too comedic without being funny. Too Christopher Walken as well.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,523
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Love Zorin and May Day.

    +1

    Also I’m glad Fukunaga is a AVTAK fan. I hope he draws some inspiration from it, namely perhaps a new power couple for villains. If done well I’d love that.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,890
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Love Zorin and May Day.

    +1

    Also I’m glad Fukunaga is a AVTAK fan. I hope he draws some inspiration from it, namely perhaps a new power couple for villains. If done well I’d love that.

    Erm correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Fukunaga ever specifically stated that he was a fan of AVTAK. Although he did say it was the first JB film he saw.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,523
    BondAficionado wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Love Zorin and May Day.

    +1

    Also I’m glad Fukunaga is a AVTAK fan. I hope he draws some inspiration from it, namely perhaps a new power couple for villains. If done well I’d love that.

    Erm correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Fukunaga ever specifically stated that he was a fan of AVTAK. Although he did say it was the first JB film he saw.

    He didn’t say so directly, but it’s still the first one he talked about after being asked “What’s your favorite Bond film?” Him jumping to that and it being his first certainly means it has a special place for him.
  • QQ7QQ7 Croatia
    Posts: 371
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    Shoot me, but I also like checking the time in Gorilla suit. Therefore I don't have much to fault about Octopussy. I'm not particularly fond of the theme song but it sounds fine in the score

    Always liked All Time High. One of those Bond songs I find myself humming now and then.

    I've was pretty harsh on OP in another thread, but I must say that "All Time High" is one of the best Bond songs ever.

    Wish we could have similar songs in modern Bond films.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,890
    Okay, but it's a little different than him calling himself a "fan" of the film imho. I.e. I can't imagine him praising the film.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited February 2019 Posts: 17,821
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    Shoot me, but I also like checking the time in Gorilla suit. Therefore I don't have much to fault about Octopussy. I'm not particularly fond of the theme song but it sounds fine in the score

    Always liked All Time High. One of those Bond songs I find myself humming now and then.

    It comes on the radio a lot. Have always like it!

    It does? Wish the radio channels over here had the same playlists!
    QQ7 wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    Shoot me, but I also like checking the time in Gorilla suit. Therefore I don't have much to fault about Octopussy. I'm not particularly fond of the theme song but it sounds fine in the score

    Always liked All Time High. One of those Bond songs I find myself humming now and then.

    I've was pretty harsh on OP in another thread, but I must say that "All Time High" is one of the best Bond songs ever.

    Wish we could have similar songs in modern Bond films.

    Wish we could have similar songs in modern Bond films too. It's such a nice song.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,085
    All Time High is probably the best part of OP for me, though the PTS is quite ok as well. It's after the credits that the movie goes downhill into camp.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,214
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Love Zorin and May Day.

    Me too, Zorin makes my top 5 villains and May Day is definitely top 10 henchperson too. Great duo.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    The only redeeming quality of that film I’m afraid
  • FrankXavierFrankXavier
    Posts: 678
    I like Sheryl Crow's song, it's not one of the best, but it is a good tune. She does strangle the cat a bit with the "until the daaaaay". But it doesn't ruin the song.

    Then again, I can't say I find nothing to like in any of the Bond songs. Even my least favorites (WOTW and DAD) I can listen to quite easily.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,334

    echo wrote: »
    The missteps of OP could be so easily fixed...really, it's just a bad line here and there. And you could easily cut out the Tarzan swing/yell.

    Moore's performance is assured, and he is well-matched by the cast. Adams is a properly mature Bond girl, as is Waybourn, and Moore has palpable buddy chemistry with Vijay. Q is in the field but there's not too much of him. They got the balance right with this one.

    It's the kind of film where you could just tell they had fun making it, and the audience shares in the fun.

    A bit too if you ask me, or they should've reanimated her before starting filming. The rest I agree with.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,821
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    The missteps of OP could be so easily fixed...really, it's just a bad line here and there. And you could easily cut out the Tarzan swing/yell.

    Moore's performance is assured, and he is well-matched by the cast. Adams is a properly mature Bond girl, as is Waybourn, and Moore has palpable buddy chemistry with Vijay. Q is in the field but there's not too much of him. They got the balance right with this one.

    It's the kind of film where you could just tell they had fun making it, and the audience shares in the fun.

    A bit too if you ask me, or they should've reanimated her before starting filming. The rest I agree with.

    I think she was just the right age for 1983 Moore Bond.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,334
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    The missteps of OP could be so easily fixed...really, it's just a bad line here and there. And you could easily cut out the Tarzan swing/yell.

    Moore's performance is assured, and he is well-matched by the cast. Adams is a properly mature Bond girl, as is Waybourn, and Moore has palpable buddy chemistry with Vijay. Q is in the field but there's not too much of him. They got the balance right with this one.

    It's the kind of film where you could just tell they had fun making it, and the audience shares in the fun.

    A bit too if you ask me, or they should've reanimated her before starting filming. The rest I agree with.

    I think she was just the right age for 1983 Moore Bond.

    Oh I wasn't referring to her actual age, more her acting.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited February 2019 Posts: 17,821
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    The missteps of OP could be so easily fixed...really, it's just a bad line here and there. And you could easily cut out the Tarzan swing/yell.

    Moore's performance is assured, and he is well-matched by the cast. Adams is a properly mature Bond girl, as is Waybourn, and Moore has palpable buddy chemistry with Vijay. Q is in the field but there's not too much of him. They got the balance right with this one.

    It's the kind of film where you could just tell they had fun making it, and the audience shares in the fun.

    A bit too if you ask me, or they should've reanimated her before starting filming. The rest I agree with.

    I think she was just the right age for 1983 Moore Bond.

    Oh I wasn't referring to her actual age, more her acting.

    Sorry, my bad!
    Think her acting is perfectly fine though. Unfortunately the same can't be said of all the Moore era Bond girls…
  • FrankXavierFrankXavier
    Posts: 678
    In Bond 25 Craig should have a Bond girl contemporary with him like Maud in Octopussy IMO. The age difference with Lea is noticeable in SP.

    Maybe the MI6 agent or the other woman.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,821
    FrankXavier wrote: »
    In Bond 25 Craig should have a Bond girl contemporary with him like Maud in Octopussy IMO. The age difference with Lea is noticeable in SP.

    Maybe the MI6 agent or the other woman.

    It's a bit "cringey" when the age difference between the Bonds and the Bond girls are getting bigger, isn't it. 17 years age difference is noticeable…
  • ThrasosThrasos
    Posts: 1,469
    While I accept that older guys get it on with younger women and vice versa, I think this is another sign that, as much as I've liked Daniel Craig, it's about time for a new younger Bond.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,231
    Thrasos wrote: »
    While I accept that older guys get it on with younger women and vice versa, I think this is another sign that, as much as I've liked Daniel Craig, it's about time for a new younger Bond.

    I am glad he is doing Bond 25, but yes he is getting old for Bond. It's also a reason to cast a relatively young actor for his successor.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    FrankXavier wrote: »
    I like Sheryl Crow's song, it's not one of the best, but it is a good tune. She does strangle the cat a bit with the "until the daaaaay". But it doesn't ruin the song.

    Then again, I can't say I find nothing to like in any of the Bond songs. Even my least favorites (WOTW and DAD) I can listen to quite easily.

    Surrender is a far superior song to TND. It links into the score perfectly too.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,082
    suavejmf wrote: »
    FrankXavier wrote: »
    I like Sheryl Crow's song, it's not one of the best, but it is a good tune. She does strangle the cat a bit with the "until the daaaaay". But it doesn't ruin the song.

    Then again, I can't say I find nothing to like in any of the Bond songs. Even my least favorites (WOTW and DAD) I can listen to quite easily.

    Surrender is a far superior song to TND. It links into the score perfectly too.

    Damn right.
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