Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    jobo wrote: »
    I have to say this: TMWTGG's score is very underrated. I repeatedly see it ranked as Barry's worst. I think people get blinded by the dumb lyrics and annoying vocal performances in the title song. There is nothing wrong with the actual score. In fact it's great!

    I share this sentiment.

    So do I. In fact, I prefer it to OHMSS.
  • Posts: 54
    Agreed with all of the love for Barry’s underappreciated TMWTGG score. It’s fun, mysterious and has a lot of character.

    Not sure if this is controversial, but I’ve always felt Octopussy was Barry’s weakest score by a long shot. The slower pieces that use All Time High are beautiful, but the action themes just don’t click with me.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    Geno wrote: »
    Agreed with all of the love for Barry’s underappreciated TMWTGG score. It’s fun, mysterious and has a lot of character.

    Not sure if this is controversial, but I’ve always felt Octopussy was Barry’s weakest score by a long shot. The slower pieces that use All Time High are beautiful, but the action themes just don’t click with me.
    I would agree with you on that.
  • Posts: 12,473
    For me, DAF is easily Barry's weakest score. Much like the rest of the film, it just didn't connect with me like his other efforts. I agree OP is one of his less great scores too, but that really says a lot about how great many of his soundtracks were, because OP isn't a total slouch.
  • Highly disagree! I find myself listening to the OP score a lot over a lot of the other scores.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    MartinBond wrote: »
    The Man with The Golden Gun is a fantastic film with a good Moore, one of the best cast and written villains, a decent score and a song that's maybe not very well sung but a good song on itself.

    *runs for cover*

    My favourite Moore Bond, and the only 70s film in my top ten.

    Seems to be the same thing for me. Granted, it’s hard to defend Pepper being pushed in the water by an elephant or Hip driving off without Bond, but I absolutely love about everything else the film has to offer.
    Moreover, Scaramanga is my favourite villain, his island with funhouse my favourite villain lair and his golden gun my favourite gadget/weapon (hence my nickname).

    I wouldn't say it's in my top 10, but when I see it near the bottom of some people's pile, I find that hard to swallow. Like you said, the Pepper stuff is extremely ill conceived, but Scaramanga is excellent. Nic Nac is a different take on a henchmen, and the film has a nice exotic feel.

    I have to give special praise to Roger Moore in this, too. I think he gives a wonderfully cynical performance, one of his best. He genuinely seems angry at everyone in this, even Goodnight. And the scene with him and Scaramanga at the dinner table is one of the best passive-aggressive scenes in the series.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    On the Barry scores, I’ve got a pretty unpopular opinion: my least favourite of his is GF. A bit too bombastic at times for me. Though it still has some really fine cues of course, it’s still Barry in the end.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    On the Barry scores, I’ve got a pretty unpopular opinion: my least favourite of his is GF. A bit too bombastic at times for me. Though it still has some really fine cues of course, it’s still Barry in the end.

    Agree with you on this. It's not bad, but its a way behind his best work in OHMSS and YOLT
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I find the GF score excellent. His lesser scores for me are for DAF and TLD, although they do contain some brilliance here and there, especially DAF.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited September 2019 Posts: 7,134
    DAF isn’t the greatest film but I love the score. For me it’s one of the finest, especially love the cue Following the Diamonds. Also includes my favourite title song of those early years.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    jobo wrote: »
    I have to say this: TMWTGG's score is very underrated. I repeatedly see it ranked as Barry's worst. I think people get blinded by the dumb lyrics and annoying vocal performances in the title song. There is nothing wrong with the actual score. In fact it's great!

    I share this sentiment.

    Ditto.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    At least in this forum, I have felt the GF score to be underrated and OHMSS overrated. GF has some terrific suspense music --which in its more subtle moments is particularly hypnotic-- and the title song gets a variety of terrific renditions, from lyrically beautiful to bombastic. The instrument choices in the score are also clever, as those finger cymbals, harps, silky strings and jazzy, red-hot brass passages perfectly convey the metallic, shiny, seductive and sexy qualities of gold. This timbral style Is unique to GF, in my opinion. TB is darker, YOLT is less sexy, OHMSS feels less jazzy, the scores from TMWTGG onwards lean toward a more orchestral, less loungey feel. The only score that comes close is DAF, but it's not as smoothly sexy as GF.

    I used to think OP was my least favorite Bond score, but now I find myself wondering if I prefer it to OHMSS. I love the score and it has plenty of superb pieces, but I like the action theme a bit less than most people, and since it's heard quite often, that keeps the score from being a favorite (relatively speaking, of course).

    Interestingly, I recall a 1981 interview a fan conducted with John Barry over the phone, which I listened to the other day, and IIRC, OHMSS was the fan's favorite score, which makes you wonder if even then, OHMSS had already risen to the status of best Bond score in the eyes (ears?) of many Bond fans.
  • edited September 2019 Posts: 1,917
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Interestingly, I recall a 1981 interview a fan conducted with John Barry over the phone, which I listened to the other day, and IIRC, OHMSS was the fan's favorite score, which makes you wonder if even then, OHMSS had already risen to the status of best Bond score in the eyes (ears?) of many Bond fans.

    I was just a young fan then, but I was an OHMSS soundtrack convert even then. My uncle had several Bond soundtracks on LP and 8 track tapes and OHMSS and DAF always stood out for me and still top my list.

    Although I am not a huge GF fan overall, I do count the score as influential as the film itself. It set the tone for '60s spy music and I like the way instead of taking music that matches the locales, Barry makes it about gold and creates signature themes for the characters themselves. The laser table is top-notch suspense music and the instrumental GF theme only used on the soundtrack is simply one of the best high-energy tracks of the series.

    I used to like OP's soundtrack a lot but have found it going down my last couple of listens. I like the action theme, the chase bomb theme and the tune set at the Monsoon Palace when Orlov and Kamal are plotting. AVTAK is Barry's weakest for me. Never cared for the military march married to rock guitar on the action theme and the suspense music just doesn't measure up. I'd have preferred another composer take on that film and save Barry's talents for a more memorable film like LTK or GE.
  • I find the GF score excellent. His lesser scores for me are for DAF and TLD, although they do contain some brilliance here and there, especially DAF.

    DAF certainly has some big highlights. I think I like/respect the TLD score more than most, if for no other reason than it showed Barry stretching himself a bit toward the end of his career when he easily could've just rested on his laurels. It's not common to see an artist that late in their career diverge/experiment. So I appreciate it for that reason (and I also really like the score, so that helps).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    DAF isn’t the greatest film but I love the score. For me it’s one of the finest, especially love the cue Following the Diamonds. Also includes my favourite title song of those early years.

    Agree about those. Much else to love as well. I like it a lot, it is just that most of his oeuvre is too good.
  • mattjoes wrote: »
    IIRC, OHMSS was the fan's favorite score, which makes you wonder if even then, OHMSS had already risen to the status of best Bond score in the eyes (ears?) of many Bond fans.

    Back when I was around 10 years old or so, in the late 70s, I had the Geoff Love Orchestra LP of covers of Bond themes. And I played the OHMSS cover more often than I played the others. Now that I’ve tracked it down on YouTube I still think Geoff Love’s cover is excellent.

    So, if the views of a 10 year old fan count, then yes, by the late 70s OHMSS was the favourite
  • To jump into a few of these

    The two things that bring GF down a peg for me are the middle act where he's crawling around in the vents and then when Goldfinger back down in the laser scene he loses a lot of his menace to me. If you're going to give him line as great as "No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die" you can't have him reverse himself a few moments later.

    I would also probably rather watch NSNA on a given day than TB. Better pacing and it has the novelty of being an "old Bond" movie while I think TB is the least distinctive of Connery's entries. All of his other ones have unique settings and usually some kind of distinctive plot element.

    I liked Spectre a good deal when I first saw it and still like it. There's a few things you could change (get rid of the brother subplot, trim some of the "mission control" scenes, have Blofeld's behavior at his lair make more sense) but overall it is my second favorite from Craig and in my top ten of the franchise.
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I will jump on the fence and defend Kara to my final days @barryt007 ;)

    Good, she deserves it. One of the best Bond Girls, behind just Tracy and Vesper for me. If Dalton's Bond knew there were all these people crapping on her he'd find them and throw them into an industrial shredder or something. He was very protective of her.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    OK. I know I threw a bit of a cat amongst the pigeons here when I disparaged Thunderball - but I actually enjoyed it more than I usually do when I watched it at the weekend...
  • Posts: 54
    CountJohn wrote: »
    I liked Spectre a good deal when I first saw it and still like it. There's a few things you could change (get rid of the brother subplot, trim some of the "mission control" scenes, have Blofeld's behavior at his lair make more sense) but overall it is my second favorite from Craig and in my top ten of the franchise.

    Agreed - problems and all, SP does enough right for me to keep it afloat at the edge of my Top 10.
  • I enjoy Spectre’s quiet moments. The action sequences are poor (and the car chase through Rome is truly awful) but the slower scenes are great. “Deux James Bonds ...” I love that line.

    And I love “Can’t you see I’m grieving?” ... “No.”

    And I love Blofeld’s entrance into the Spectre meeting, silhouetted in the door, sitting down, tapping the microphone.

    And I love a hundred other little things too. There are far too many such touches of quality for me to bin this film.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    I enjoy Spectre’s quiet moments. The action sequences are poor (and the car chase through Rome is truly awful) but the slower scenes are great. “Deux James Bonds ...” I love that line.

    And I love “Can’t you see I’m grieving?” ... “No.”

    And I love Blofeld’s entrance into the Spectre meeting, silhouetted in the door, sitting down, tapping the microphone.

    And I love a hundred other little things too. There are far too many such touches of quality for me to bin this film.
    I agree very strongly with all the moments you mention (and I love the cynical tone of voice at the meeting when Blofeld says "don't let me interrupt you"), except that I don't think the action is poor. It's not outstanding, but it's enjoyable to me. The escape from the lair is too easy, but really cool.
  • I enjoy Spectre’s quiet moments. The action sequences are poor (and the car chase through Rome is truly awful) but the slower scenes are great. “Deux James Bonds ...” I love that line.

    And I love “Can’t you see I’m grieving?” ... “No.”

    And I love Blofeld’s entrance into the Spectre meeting, silhouetted in the door, sitting down, tapping the microphone.

    And I love a hundred other little things too. There are far too many such touches of quality for me to bin this film.

    Agree on a lot of the dialog scenes being good. I do really like the PTS and train fight, though.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited September 2019 Posts: 4,343
    SP quiet scenes are mostly amazing. Except the obvious ones I really like the scene between M and C regarding the license to not kill, every scene at Lucia's house, Bond and White confrontation and the scene at the liar where Blofeld shows to Swann her father's suicide. BTW I see the action as an improvement comparing SP to SF, except the skyscraper neon fight which is pure genius for the obvious link to the legacy of the franchise's main titles silhouettes.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    matt_u wrote: »
    SP quiet scenes are mostly amazing. Except the obvious ones I really like the scene between M and C regarding the license to not kill, every scene at Lucia's house, Bond and White confrontation and the scene at the liar where Blofeld shows to Swann her father's suicide. BTW I see the action as an improvement comparing SP to SF, except the skyscraper neon fight which is pure genius for the obvious link to the legacy of the franchise's main titles silhouettes.

    The 'Licence Not To Kill' speech is probably the best moment in the film. There in lies the problem.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Am I the only one who cringes at the "a licence to kill is also a licence not to kill" line?
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Remington wrote: »
    Am I the only one who cringes at the "a licence to kill is also a licence not to kill" line?

    I liked it. It was the only thing I did like about the film, though.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    I feel that it's definitely the most inconsistent Bond film. The PTS is well done, I remember gripping my seat when the helicopter fell straight down. The Rome scenes right up to the car chase I like as well. Then it sorta drifts off. The meeting with White is one of Craigs best scenes in his era. After that it's the train fight and then not much else. I loathe the final act in London and when it ended with Bond driving off, I felt underwhelmed thinking that Craig can't go out like that. I'm glad he's returning for NTTD and I really hope he goes off an a high note.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Remington wrote: »
    Am I the only one who cringes at the "a licence to kill is also a licence not to kill" line?

    It doesn t make any sense.
  • Posts: 12,473
    Really? I liked that line myself. Simply means Bond has the power to kill in certain situations, and also the power to spare life if he chooses in certain situations. I have a tough time with much of the film, especially the last third, but I always liked that part.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I understand what it means, I just think it is poorly worded. I don t need a licence in order to not kill you.
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