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The James Bond Questions Thread

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  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    He's capable at being outside his desk work, too, if he wants to. Many characters have been subverted like that in several other fictions. Don't see why Villiers shouldn't when Menzies himself can play very tough and threatening characters.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited November 2018 Posts: 18,270
    It's the old desk versus field debate. However, I very much doubt that Villiers will ever return in the Craig era so it is, if I may say so, all rather moot by this stage in the proceedings.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,114
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    He's capable at being outside his desk work, too, if he wants to. Many characters have been subverted like that in several other fictions. Don't see why Villiers shouldn't when Menzies himself can play very tough and threatening characters.

    Sure but it's now how the character was conceived. Why subvert Villiers into something he is not, just because his actor can play different types of characters? We're talking of a very secondary character here, not anyone central. People already complain that Bond is overshadowed by the Mi6 staff now Villiers needs some kind of character arc?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Ludovico wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    He's capable at being outside his desk work, too, if he wants to. Many characters have been subverted like that in several other fictions. Don't see why Villiers shouldn't when Menzies himself can play very tough and threatening characters.

    Sure but it's now how the character was conceived. Why subvert Villiers into something he is not, just because his actor can play different types of characters? We're talking of a very secondary character here, not anyone central. People already complain that Bond is overshadowed by the Mi6 staff now Villiers needs some kind of character arc?
    I'm not saying let's go and give him a whole new arc that narrates his past, present and future. Just an appearance with a different sort of iteration with an explanation as such. An explanation that doesn't invest a five minute interlude to it. Containing it in a sentence or two should do. Had they brought Villiers back, I would've loved to see him being the way I described him earlier. But, VIlliers won't be back considering we have Tanner and Moneypenny now, and he was just a placeholder for them both.

    Now, how the character was conceived and where to go from there is entirely subjective.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,114
    How he was conceived is not really subjective, at least not how he came off in CR as finished product. I'm all for Villiers to be seen in a cameo, say as a station agent, it would be a nice continuity nod. I don't see the relevance to change the character. He's fine as he is.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,112
    I just wish he stayed on as M’s sidekick instead of Tanner. Or at least Kinnear’s version of Tanner.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Ludovico wrote: »
    How he was conceived is not really subjective, at least not how he came off in CR as finished product. I'm all for Villiers to be seen in a cameo, say as a station agent, it would be a nice continuity nod. I don't see the relevance to change the character. He's fine as he is.
    Well, that's your perspective on it. Mine and a few of others' don't quite align with it, so how the character could be subverted is very subjective.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited November 2018 Posts: 15,114
    My perspective on it is that it makes sense that a MI6 staff member who does not field work is like Villiers. A glorified civil servant. Or, as @GoldenGun puts it, M's sidekick, We've got James Bond, other 00 agents, M and even to some extend Moneypenny as "tough guys". A tough Villiers would be redundant.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    That's the thing with Villiers as I wasn't suggesting him to have been kept on board with the MI6. Probably he would've left and took on a job at the Whitehall. I doubt they'll be bringing him back to play an amalgam of Tanner and Moneypenny when we already do have those characters in their own spots.

    I don't see the Tobias Menzies of today playing the old, defenseless, worrying and soft Villiers of the yesteryear. At the very least, he would be someone of an authority the way James Villiers' Bill Tanner was, an actor he was named after. And as such, there was a hint in Villiers' Tanner that he was capable of handling himself, so I don't see why Menzies' Villiers wouldn't be like that.

    A man like him wouldn't be demoted to the secretarial pool, and those who aren't and have operated within elite branches even as desk officers like the 00-section, wouldn't be defenseless nothings. Charles Robinson was a testament to that, and he wasn't a 00 agent. And no, Robinson wasn't only an on-foot errand boy for M.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,133
    We're drifting away from the questions thread, and getting into a discussion about Villiers here.
    That being said, he's a great character and one of my favourites from CR.
    I'm just trying to think of a more appropriate thread to best continue this in.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    How about here? A 'Hall of Fame' of sorts for minor character appreciation:

    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/523/the-minor-character-hall-of-fame/p6
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,114
    Benny wrote: »
    We're drifting away from the questions thread, and getting into a discussion about Villiers here.
    That being said, he's a great character and one of my favourites from CR.
    I'm just trying to think of a more appropriate thread to best continue this in.

    Wouldn't he need a thread of his own?

    Question: did they start working on what would become SP before they had the rights to Blofeld? If so who was the villain of the early drafts?
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Some sort of African general I think.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,114
    PropertyOfALady wrote: »
    Some sort of African general I think.

    I remember reading about it, but I understand (maybe wrongly) that Blofeld was meant to be the African warlord (terrible idea by the way).
  • moneyofpropre2moneyofpropre2 France
    edited November 2018 Posts: 859
    EON had always had the right on Blofeld, so far we know no justice decision give to McClory the exclusives rights on Blofeld and Spectre (howewer it's gave him the rights on the novel Thunderball and on all scripts develloped before the novel). EON didn't utilise the carracter not because they they didn't had legally the right to do it, but they instead decided to not use him cause McClory threaten to pursue them cause he was claiming to have the right on Blofeld since he first appears on Thunderball (and McClory claimed a lot of untrue thing in his life). So for avoid a trial who would will delay the film, cost money, and/but establish once for all if EON can utilise or not Blolfeld/SPECTRE, they decided to not use the carracter. But well, at the end there never have been courts documents who said that M. McClory is the sole detentor of Blofeld/SPECTRE for movies.

    Blofeld was in the earliest draft of Bond 24 we know (and was indeed a African general in theses), he was removed after, and reincluded later.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,114
    Thank you, that's interesting. I never believed McClory's claims about Blofeld, come come off as pure Fleming.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Not to mention that he "created" SPECTRE...

    It doesn't sound like him at all. Especially when the earliest drafts of that planned Bond film he was going to produce (that later became the basis for Thunderball) didn't include or feature SPECTRE but several of the drafts had Bond battling a mafia syndicate.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    Villiers did not return in QoS because Tobias Menzies was unavailable due to other commitments. So instead of casting a new actor in the role, they (probably Forster, Craig and Wilson due to the writers strike) rebooted Tanner instead.
    I'm sure I read an interview with Menzies a couple of years ago that he imagines that Villiers quit his job after seeing Solange and that he is now happily married doing something else. Far away from the ghastly terrors of the secret service.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,114
    MrBond wrote: »
    Villiers did not return in QoS because Tobias Menzies was unavailable due to other commitments. So instead of casting a new actor in the role, they (probably Forster, Craig and Wilson due to the writers strike) rebooted Tanner instead.
    I'm sure I read an interview with Menzies a couple of years ago that he imagines that Villiers quit his job after seeing Solange and that he is now happily married doing something else. Far away from the ghastly terrors of the secret service.

    Boy Menzies is sure a specialist at playing wusses. I'd love to find that interview.

    Question : Simon Russell Beale, who often worked with Sam Mendes on stage, was rumored to have been considered for a role in what would become Skyfall. Any truth to it and anyone knows which role?
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Cubby Broccoli's name appears before Harry Saltzman's on the titles of Gf, Tb and TMWTGG, with Saltzman's appearing first in the other films. Any reason for that? I remember reading somewhere that they took turns operating as "primary" producer in each film, but the credits don't follow that pattern.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I believe they decided to put Saltzman first in the Northern hemisphere prints, and Broccoli s name first in the Sothern hemisphere prints, so it depends on what copies are used.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    I believe they decided to put Saltzman first in the Northern hemisphere prints, and Broccoli s name first in the Sothern hemisphere prints, so it depends on what copies are used.

    I see. Thank you.

    I presume with the DVD transfers and TV broadcast copies, that no longer applies.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    I believe they decided to put Saltzman first in the Northern hemisphere prints, and Broccoli s name first in the Sothern hemisphere prints, so it depends on what copies are used.

    I see. Thank you.

    I presume with the DVD transfers and TV broadcast copies, that no longer applies.

    Seems like it.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    From the official 007 site's Focus of the Week: "Bond receives a Queen of Cups tarot card in an upside down position anonymously sent by Solitaire — it is a message that Rosie is not to be trusted."

    I had always assumed that the card Bond received came from the hotel he was staying at. A quasi customary fortune cookie to go along with his breakfast. Not from Solitaire.

    When they later meet he never thanks her for the warning so I never linked the two. Also, why would she help him after only briefly being introduced to him? How'd she know where he was staying?

    So, is it considered common knowledge that it was Solitaire who sent it?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,568
    BondAficionado wrote: »
    From the official 007 site's Focus of the Week: "Bond receives a Queen of Cups tarot card in an upside down position anonymously sent by Solitaire — it is a message that Rosie is not to be trusted."

    I had always assumed that the card Bond received came from the hotel he was staying at. A quasi customary fortune cookie to go along with his breakfast. Not from Solitaire.

    When they later meet he never thanks her for the warning so I never linked the two. Also, why would she help him after only briefly being introduced to him? How'd she know where he was staying?

    So, is it considered common knowledge that it was Solitaire who sent it?
    Bond sent a morse-code message to Quarrel Jr on his clothes brush, hence the line, "meet the man who shares my hairbrush". One could assume the message was for Quarrel to check out Rosie's credentials, with Quarrel sending a reply back to Bond in the form of a tarot card.

    While we do see the card attached to a small hotel letterhead - whether the message was delivered via the hotel reception; from the waiter; or Quarrel himself, is another question. I'm guessing the message did not go through the reception, since Rosie was going under the alias of 'Mrs. Bond', and could have accepted it on Mr. Bond's behalf.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    Exactly, so the website might have just taken a liberty here and there's no definitive answer. Unless we're supposed to treat what they say as 'official', because for all we know they might have access to early screenplay drafts with such information.

    Thankfully it's not crucial to the plot.
  • LeiterTheManLeiterTheMan
    Posts: 73
    I read somewhere that there's a work in which Trigger from TLD gets pushed off a building. In my memory this was a description of the plot of "007 in New York". Now obviously there's no such scene in that story, or in any Fleming work, so I was wondering if this could have been a post-Fleming novel or if I have simply misremembered.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    In the Thunderball PTS, why does the female agent say "they're coming to get me" when Bond and her are escaping from the château guards? Seems like a obvious and somewhat strange thing to say.

    And Bond says "get inside" (the car). Seems to me they mistakenly switched lines. Bond should say they're coming to get him, and the agent should tell him to get inside.
  • Tokoloshe2Tokoloshe2 Northern Ireland
    Posts: 1,175
    mattjoes wrote: »
    In the Thunderball PTS, why does the female agent say "they're coming to get me" when Bond and her are escaping from the château guards? Seems like a obvious and somewhat strange thing to say.

    And Bond says "get inside" (the car). Seems to me they mistakenly switched lines. Bond should say they're coming to get him, and the agent should tell him to get inside.



    I can see that line in an online version of the script, but in the film itself it's completely inaudible. She makes a small sound like 'me' at the very most.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited December 2018 Posts: 7,021
    Tokoloshe2 wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    In the Thunderball PTS, why does the female agent say "they're coming to get me" when Bond and her are escaping from the château guards? Seems like a obvious and somewhat strange thing to say.

    And Bond says "get inside" (the car). Seems to me they mistakenly switched lines. Bond should say they're coming to get him, and the agent should tell him to get inside.



    I can see that line in an online version of the script, but in the film itself it's completely inaudible. She makes a small sound like 'me' at the very most.

    I just listened to it. As far as I can tell, she's saying "they're coming for me."

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=YVAq90lAqHU&t=4m25s
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