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Lewis Collins: 007 ,Who Dares Wins & Professionals appreciation/discussion.

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  • barryt007barryt007
    edited November 2016 Posts: 19,339
    Time for a bit of Lewis Collins respect....into the DVD goes 'Who Dares Wins'...anyone who thinks he couldnt be a Craig kind of Bond...watch this....
  • barryt007barryt007
    edited November 2016 Posts: 19,339
    2892ac86ae01c5e45d0eaa4ff230104a.jpg
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,616
    Love The Professionals, and I adore 'Who Dares Wins' (with that great Roy Budd theme!)
    But I just don't think he was suitable for Bond!
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    In what way @Mathis1 ?
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,616
    Hard to say really! He could do action, and looks good, but there's something missing!
    Too rough around the edges? Maybe too crude in his attitude! I'm not really sure. Who Dares Wins suited him, but his character in that couldn't be perceived as 007? When all the hooha about Craig being cast for CR, I watched 'Layer Cake'. Craigs character was a drug dealer, but it was something about the way he carried himself, his presence.. I knew they chose the right man! Watching any episode of The Professionals or WDW, its hard to visualise him as Bond!
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    But we are talking 70's-80's versus late 90's.....
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,616
    Ok, but he didn't really star in anything decent to come to a definite conclusion about him! Don't get me wrong, I still liked him, just cant see him as Bond material!
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    If only we could get our grubby mitts on his screen test.
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,616
    I'd like to see that! And to be fair he is certainly a better choice than James Brolin! What the hell were they thinking there? Even his screentest put me to sleep!
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre
    Posts: 1,548
    I agree with your opinion about Jason Isaacs. He would have been an excellent Bond in the vein of Tim Dalton. Much better actor than Brosnan.

    bondjames wrote: »
    I loved Collins in The Professionals. I'm not surprised he was deemed too aggressive in his screentest. He does come across like a bull in a china shop. A bit thuggish. He always reminded me a little of an English Burt Reynolds. I also found his acting a bit affected. Good enough for Bodie, but perhaps not quite good enough for Bond imho.

    Perhaps he could have cleaned up and smoothed out his act. After all, Craig seems to have done it, so anything is possible.

    All in all, I'm glad he didn't get the part though.

    The one actor who didn't get it who I think could have been a cracking Bond is Jason Isaacs.

  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    I'd like to see that! And to be fair he is certainly a better choice than James Brolin! What the hell were they thinking there? Even his screentest put me to sleep!
    That was a serious worry..maybe we should thank Connery and McClory for cocking up their own film and saving the official series !!

  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    Big fan of Who Dares Wins/The Final Option Collins would have been proto Craig and been a excellent as Bond IMO, though not sure the mass audience would have accepted it back then.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    One thing in Lewis' favour was kind of a 'Brosnan/Steele' effect....he was 'Collins/Bodie' ,so i think the curiosity factor would have been there at least in '81.....
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    edited November 2016 Posts: 6,432
    Professionals was a kick ass show, occasionally watch the odd rerun episode. With Glen's tonal shift for his first directional outing it could have worked certainly for me it would have. Good point though potential Bond actor who are already in the public consciousness tend to be accepted quicker, I knew who Pierce was over a decade and a half before he was Bond.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    Both Collins and Shaw used to do their own stunts/car driving etc (because the production company was too mean to hire stuntmen?) I always liked Collins and had him in the Lazenby/connery category as far as being someone who would be good to have on my side in a bar brawl.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Yep @stag i think he would have brought more success than Dalton if im honest...he had the pulling power...and the comedy side which Dalton couldnt produce.
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited November 2016 Posts: 3,333
    Let's not forget if Bond hadn't come along for Moore then he'd have still been stuck in TV production hell himself, never making that transition from the small screen to the big. Before anyone mentions The Man Who Haunted Himself, that doesn't count as it was a B-movie that no one went to go see at the pictures, despite its belated appreciation on these forums. No one ever mentions Moore's attempt to do an Eastwood when he made a few forgotten Italian movies. The same thing happened with Collins, he never made the transition to the big screen. Even Connery fell back into TV productions before Bond resurrected his stalled and stagnant movie career, otherwise he might have been stuck there himself appearing in ITV Playhouse and BBC sagas for the remainder of his career. Whereas Bond did Moore and Connery a favour, the same can't be said of Collins as he was shoved aside for Brolin (go figure?) until Moore was persuaded to return for more money.

    Let's also not forget another good contender who also screen tested for Bond the same time as Collins - Oliver Tobias. He actually looked like a more rugged proto Brosnan. These are two screen tests I'd love to see.

    But going back to Collins, I really wanted to see his take on Bond. I think he would've invigorated the series and stopped it from being the squirm inducing joke it had become. For those that don't remember how big a deal Collins was in the late 70s, he was Britain's answer to a new Bond being cast in exactly the same way as Brosnan became the Americans 6 years later. Only difference was the UK's opinion was ignored and the Americans one embraced.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    @bondsum I thought the same about oliver Tobias but didn't know he had tested for the part.

    A short interview with Collins about 'Who Dares Wins' here:



    Imagine Tobias in the fencing scene from DAD?

  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    Hi @stag. I've checked over my Collins info and it looks like the negative stuff between Cubby and Collins actually comes from Collins himself, and it was a frosty meeting, not even a screen test apparently.

    There's some good stuff by Michael Billington, who was a real contender for the role, over at Alternative 007 website. Here's a short passage on the Tobias screen test:

    "About twenty odd years ago I was working near Pinewood and used to sneak in and use the canteen. Over a sunny week I watched James Brolin and Oliver Tobias do screen tests for James Bond. Directed, it looked like, by the stuntman Martin Grace. It involved beating up Clive Curtis on a lavish room set.
    Due to the hot weather, tables and chairs were out on the patio and the french windows of the bar opened out onto the garden. As I sat taking in the "life of the stars" with a coke and packet of dry roasted peanuts I noticed a lonely person sitting quietly under a Skol Lager brolly having a light ale. It was Oliver Tobias. After a while he was joined by a middle-aged lady with a metal cash box. The lady sat down opened the box a counted out sum cash. She gave him the money and he signed a page of foolscap. She then left. The whole thing took about a minute. He then got up went to the bar whare Martin Grace and the rest of the Crew were drinking and started chatting. I went past the restaurant and as I left I could see, through the window, James Brolin sitting with some suits having a meal."

    alternative007.co.uk/12.htm
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    It seems quite a depressing affair @bondsum ,and thanks for that snippet of info .
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    Indeed it was, @barryt007. Also, it was Moore himself that declared that MR would be his last Bond movie. I suppose that's why a lot of us got excited it would be Collins in FYEO. It was such a shame that Moore was only holding out for a bigger paycheque, something he'd do for OP and AVTAK also. I suppose this is why I hold those 3 Moore movies in such low regard.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    True...I think Collins would have been the only actor to take on Connery,in NSNA...Tobias,Brolin or Sam Neill would have flopped against him.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    An actor can only deal with the role and dialogie they are given. His role in the Professionals was as the cold, cocky one and his colleague was the warmer, sensitive one. This was extented to Who Dares Wins. As a pro actor, we should at least give him some benefit that he could have played another character with more depth. We shall never know but I think it's clear he had massive potential and a self confidence, physicality and swagger (on and off the screen) that other actors lack.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Totally agree with you Pat...a missed opportunity by Cubby I think...
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    With his physicality and swagger, Collins would have been like Lazenby Mk2 (not a bad thing), but I would not have wanted Collins at the expense of Dalton.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    I would ;)
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    The issue is , we are looking at Dalton as the finished article within 2 fully funded Bond movies etc etc, it takes a great leap of imagination to imagine Collins under the same frame of reference. Its easy to go for Dalton when we know what a good effort he made but Collins could have been better IMHO. Dalton was great (at times) but he did lack that "constant threat" that both Connery and Lazenby brought to the role. At any time, you get on the wrong side of him and he could tear the place apart. I like that side of the character and, for me, will always be part of the Bond character. Collins certainly had that.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    That's what I think....Dalton,to me,never had enough menace about him.But Collins,especially in Who Dares Wins,looks like he could rip your head off in a heartbeat !
  • patbpatb
    edited November 2016 Posts: 4,617
    Yes, with Connery, Laz and Craig, there is a kind of under lying rage/anger/violence than can errupt and its part of Bonds personality to harness this and target it at the right time etc. Never saw this is Dalton's perfomance which is interesting considering he was so "into" the role. I think, to some extent, this part of the character that comes from within the actor themselves, something that cant be acted and is within the DNA of the actor. We all know that Connery was/could be rough and ready, Laz was just violent and Craig does not suffer fools gladly. Perhaps Dalton literally did not have it within himself to bring this side of Bond to the screen.
    As usual, the thread drifts but I dont think there is any doubt that Collins would have had no problem with this side of Bond's charater.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    He would have been a very good Bond for the time,in 1981,and the Professionals gave him a Launchpad to transgress into Bond.
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