The TIMOTHY DALTON Appreciation thread - Discuss His Life, His Career, His Bond Films

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    THE LION IN WINTER has perhaps my favourite John Barry score.
  • Posts: 19,339
    THE LION IN WINTER has perhaps my favourite John Barry score.

    Zulu for me ....
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited August 2018 Posts: 13,978
    As much as I love god aka Sir Timothy aka the best Bond ever aka T-Dalts, I am glad he didn't get the role in 68/70/72. He looked far to sullen and baby-ish. When he hit his 40's, he grew into his handsome Byronic looks.

    RE the life article and the "final five", Dalton wouldn't have in that group, as he turned it down out of being intimidated at following in the footsteps of Connery, at such an early stage of his career (isn't that how the story goes?).
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited August 2018 Posts: 7,020
    mattjoes wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    Reading Some Kind Of Hero, the book mentions how Timothy Dalton was considered for On Her Majesty's Secret Service because of his performance in The Lion In Winter - his movie debut.

    Well, considering The Lion In Winter was released on October 30th 1968, 9 days after Lazenby began shooting his Bond film, and several months after Lazenby was introduced to the press, well I do think this myth needs to be put to rest.

    I believe in fact that when Dalton said he was approached after Connery quit, he meant in 1972 after Connery quit for the second time. That makes perfect sense. Its a shame writers make assumptions, and before you know it these are facts and ingrained in the public conscience.

    Great post. Agree especially with the bolded part. In regards to Bond, another myth that annoys me is that the Mr score tapes are lost forever, which we have no definitive reason to think is the case.

    (And @Some_Kind_Of_Hero, it appears you have let us down for the first and last time ;) )

    I've never heard about this before! What's the story behind this?

    Mr was recorded in France, at Studio Davout. In 2003, when soundtrack album producer Lukas Kendall was putting together the expanded albums in London, they did a search for the tapes of the Mr recording sessions (in London), and came up empty. Adding more fuel to the fire was a later interview with someone at Davout who claims they had kept copies of the Mr tapes there, but at some point, when they started throwing old tapes away, they called MGM/UA to tell them they had x days to retrieve their Mr tapes or they would throw them in the garbage. Nobody from MGM/UA called back or showed up, so Davout fulfilled their promise.

    Pretty bleak, right? Except for the fact the 2003 expansions were produced in a very short timeframe, with a limited budget, so the London search was not exhaustive. The tapes may very well be in London, a theory which makes even more sense when one considers something mentioned on soundtrack expert (and John Barry friend) Jon Burlingame's book, The Music of James Bond: at some point, the Mr tapes (or copies of them, if Davout kept their own tapes) were shipped to London to prepare the final film mixes. So the fact the Davout copies were thrown away isn't decisive. Nor is the fact they didn't find the tapes in London. Or is not having found something the same as it being lost forever? Recording session tapes are sometimes found years after they started searching for them, in the unlikeliest of places, like an inconspicuous-looking cardboard box in which nobody had bothered looking.

    Also, IIRC, in 2003 they didn't find the Op and AVTAK tapes either. But nobody goes around claiming they're gone, like with Mr in some corners of the internet.

    Last but not least, when he died, John Barry left a number of work-related materials, which I believe his family has not allowed public access to. Among them might be sheet music but also tapes. The Mr tapes could very well be there. I recall Barry lost some stuff when moving from the UK to the US, but that was before Mr. In the mid-seventies, I think.

    So you see, there is a possibility the Mr tapes might be gone, but we're hardly in condition to claim that's the most likely scenario, and this is hardly a closed case.
  • Posts: 17,744
    Interesting information, @mattjoes - thanks for sharing! As you write, music tapes have a tendency to turn up eventually.

    Stranger things have happened before, but I find it a little strange that nobody from MGM/UA picked up the tapes. Why would they risk anything like that to be lost?
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,020
    Interesting information, @mattjoes - thanks for sharing! As you write, music tapes have a tendency to turn up eventually.

    Stranger things have happened before, but I find it a little strange that nobody from MGM/UA picked up the tapes. Why would they risk anything like that to be lost?

    I think it's because they don't feel the tapes have much business value. I suspect it has to do with the fact a soundtrack re-release is a relatively uncertain thing-- for them it's not something concrete that is part of a schedule or a business plan. It might happen some day, or it might not. So it's not a high priority for them.
  • mattjoes wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    Reading Some Kind Of Hero, the book mentions how Timothy Dalton was considered for On Her Majesty's Secret Service because of his performance in The Lion In Winter - his movie debut.

    Well, considering The Lion In Winter was released on October 30th 1968, 9 days after Lazenby began shooting his Bond film, and several months after Lazenby was introduced to the press, well I do think this myth needs to be put to rest.

    I believe in fact that when Dalton said he was approached after Connery quit, he meant in 1972 after Connery quit for the second time. That makes perfect sense. Its a shame writers make assumptions, and before you know it these are facts and ingrained in the public conscience.

    Great post. Agree especially with the bolded part. In regards to Bond, another myth that annoys me is that the Mr score tapes are lost forever, which we have no definitive reason to think is the case.

    (And @Some_Kind_Of_Hero, it appears you have let us down for the first and last time ;) )

    *adjusts tie and looks uncomfortably into drink

    Not exactly my finest hour.
  • Posts: 17,744
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Interesting information, @mattjoes - thanks for sharing! As you write, music tapes have a tendency to turn up eventually.

    Stranger things have happened before, but I find it a little strange that nobody from MGM/UA picked up the tapes. Why would they risk anything like that to be lost?

    I think it's because they don't feel the tapes have much business value. I suspect it has to do with the fact a soundtrack re-release is a relatively uncertain thing-- for them it's not something concrete that is part of a schedule or a business plan. It might happen some day, or it might not. So it's not a high priority for them.

    I guess that's true, but at the same time there will always be people willing to spend money on getting an expanded score, which would perhaps make them some money. But - as you say, it's probably an uncertain thing which might not be profitable enough.

    Would think having the tapes lying around in case there was some business opportunity to use them for, wouldn't hurt.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I thought all you Daltonites might enjoy this:

  • Posts: 11,425
    Watch the first 30 second of this. Is it just me or is there something of Eddie Redmayne about Dalton as he speaks to O'Toole over his shoulder in The Lion in Winter?

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Well that felt like the longest 7:41 minutes I've ever sat through.

    Still, somewhere in there he found the answers.
    Except, it shouldn't be a question in the first place. Dalton and Craig aren't as close in characterisation as some critics seem to obsessively try and suggest.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Dalton is obviously far superior ;)
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Getafix wrote: »
    Dalton is obviously far superior ;)
    Ermmmmmm….of course.
    :-?
  • Posts: 19,339
    Getafix wrote: »
    Dalton is obviously far superior ;)

    Oh dear...
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 11,425
    I personally would rather watch Dalton as Bond any day of the week. His 2 have better action and more classic dialogue than Craig's 4 IMO.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Getafix wrote: »
    I thought all you Daltonites might enjoy this:


    Interesting. I'm not sure I understand why it's specifically "Burtons Bond". And I don't agree that Dalton:Bond is self-loathing, but definitely weary and jaded. He might not be the Bond I want to be, but is without doubt the most fascinating Bond to watch. Other than both followed lightweight Bonds, I don't really see any similarity between Dalton:Bond and Craig:Bond.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I think the similarity is that Dalton and Craig both sought to portray a character that is slightly more 3 dimensional and suggest an inner world. Dalton does this through his acting, whereas Craig's does it more through the 'personal' story lines.
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 1,661
    BT3366 wrote: »
    There seems to be a lot of myths and misinformation about when exactly Eon considered Dalton. I've always been skeptical about the OHMSS era as stated above. It's been mentioned that if you were breathing and a British male you could be considered for the role. But when you consider the five contenders as documented by Life Magazine in 1968 then how serious a candidate could Dalton have been? It's more of a good story in retrospect.

    Perhaps the books The Making of On Her Majesty's Secret Service and The Making of The Living Daylights have the best information based on the research that went into those publications.

    Timothy Dalton on playing Bond after Connery - his quote from The Living Daylights premiere:
    "Well, there was a possibility. It wouldn't be fair to say it was offered. Mr Broccoli very kindly asked if I would be interested in doing it but at that time Sean was just deciding to finish and he was so splendid, and I was only 24, 25, it didn't seem sensible."

    I think that makes it clear. He was approached but not offered the part. Born in 1946, Dalton would have been 24 in 1970, 25 in 1971 making it impossible for him to have been up for the role in OHMSS?

    DAF began filming on 5 April 1971 - source Wikipedia. Dalton's comment about his age would suggest he was considered for DAF. If Dalton got his age wrong and he was a tad older he might have meant he was considered for LALD. That would tally with his comment about "Sean was just deciding to finish." I reckon Dalton was considered for DAF or LALD but not OHMSS.





  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Getafix wrote: »
    I personally would rather watch Dalton as Bond any day of the week. His 2 have better action and more classic dialogue than Craig's 4 IMO.

    Classic dialogue in LTK? I found it the least quotable Bond film ever. A couple of Davi’s lines were good, but overall it was unmemorable
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited August 2018 Posts: 13,978
    Doesn't really say much for LTK, even a blank sheet of paper is more quote-able than the Craig era.
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    I think that makes it clear. He was approached but not offered the part. Born in 1946, Dalton would have been 24 in 1970, 25 in 1971 making it impossible for him to have been up for the role in OHMSS?

    DAF began filming on 5 April 1971 - source Wikipedia. Dalton's comment about his age would suggest he was considered for DAF. If Dalton got his age wrong and he was a tad older he might have meant he was considered for LALD. That would tally with his comment about "Sean was just deciding to finish." I reckon Dalton was considered for DAF or LALD but not OHMSS.

    So I guess that sets the record straight, Dalton wasn't under any consideration whatsoever for OHMSS, but instead for DAF or LALD. Can't say it changes my feelings much, if at all. I still think Dalton looked too young for Bond around that time (tail end of the 60's and early 70's).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    How could he be under consideration for DAF if Connery was just quitting?
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 11,425

    When the idiot Lazenby said he wasn't coming back to do another, EON were casting around for a replacement. I think Connery was brought back for DAF at the last minute, mainly because United Artists sorted it out (his relationship with Harry Saltzman in particular was appalling). So it makes sense that Dalton might have been on their radar at this time.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
  • Posts: 11,425
    nice to see him continuing to pick up work. I'm always surprised he hasn't had more and better film roles in recent years
  • Posts: 1,548
    Ive said it before and I ll say it again. When Craig does finish I want Dalton back for a Logan style old man Bond. Just a one off but would be special I reckon.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
    Personally I'd like him to get the heck back on a theatre stage so I can go and watch.
  • Posts: 11,425
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    Ive said it before and I ll say it again. When Craig does finish I want Dalton back for a Logan style old man Bond. Just a one off but would be special I reckon.

    I've been wanting this for years. I remember in the 90s rumours that mclory wanted him for warhead 2000. not that Dalts would have ever done it.
  • Dalton has just signed on to the streaming "DC Universe" sci-fi/action series DOOM PATROL...
    https://io9.gizmodo.com/timothy-dalton-will-play-doom-patrols-chief-1828831314
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Getafix wrote: »
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    Ive said it before and I ll say it again. When Craig does finish I want Dalton back for a Logan style old man Bond. Just a one off but would be special I reckon.

    I've been wanting this for years. I remember in the 90s rumours that mclory wanted him for warhead 2000. not that Dalts would have ever done it.

    Well that's $20 at the box office already.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,020
    NicNac wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    Ive said it before and I ll say it again. When Craig does finish I want Dalton back for a Logan style old man Bond. Just a one off but would be special I reckon.

    I've been wanting this for years. I remember in the 90s rumours that mclory wanted him for warhead 2000. not that Dalts would have ever done it.

    Well that's $20 at the box office already.

    That's what you pay for a movie ticket?
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