It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
^ Back to Top
The MI6 Community is unofficial and in no way associated or linked with EON Productions, MGM, Sony Pictures, Activision or Ian Fleming Publications. Any views expressed on this website are of the individual members and do not necessarily reflect those of the Community owners. Any video or images displayed in topics on MI6 Community are embedded by users from third party sites and as such MI6 Community and its owners take no responsibility for this material.
James Bond News • James Bond Articles • James Bond Magazine
Comments
Where is my tea? ~O) Ahhh, yes.
It is time to wrap up our discussion of M through the ages!
So please get your last thoughts on this posted.
Then, we shall tackle what should be our next topic.
First, though, I have to let you know that I must take a break from the forum, and indeed the computer, for a few days. I will hopefully be back and functioning on Monday or Tuesday. I have injured my right knee - not in constant pain, but having to deal with it now. So I am rather distracted.
I'd appreciate it any Original would be able to step in and help lead this thread for the next 3 or 4 days. Please PM me. Thanks for considering this! An "Original" is someone who saw Sean Connery as Bond in the theatre during the film's initial run. Maybe no Originals are able to help me out just now, but I need to ask. I prefer for this to be an Original as it is of course the Originals thread, started by SirHenry. :)>-
Meanwhile, I'll try to get back on here one more time before I go to work, to list a few potential topics for our next round of discussion.
Cheers! :-bd
Your slightly gimpy but still determined,
4EverBonded
a) Cinematography in Bond films (the good, the bad, and the ugly)
b) Villains - in depth look at favorites, most effective, craziest, most entertaining, plot holes (What? There are plot holes in Bond films?) ETC.
c) Miscast Bond Girls - talk about the ones that just didn't work for you
d) A Bonding Kind of Dinner - Just for fun; a fantasy dinner. If you could invite three characters from any Bond film to a dinner of your choice, who would you invite and why? What would you discuss? What kind of food, ambiance? Would you pick those that would get along with each other or try to kill each other? What kind of conversation would you like to have with them? :D
e) Timeless or Dated - which Bond films, or individual scenes, seem timeless or feel already dated. (thanks, @chrisisall, for this suggestion)
f) Humor in Bond Films - what works and what doesn't work for you, and why.
If anyone else has a suggestion for our next topic, please do let me know.
Thanks!
Timeless - Bond films that stand the test of time or we think will. Or even just moments that are timeless. I like that.
Dated - those films or just scenes that definitely feel dated already.
I'll add that to our list of upcoming topics. Thanks!
We shall just need to get a few votes on which topic will be next.
We can take on Beatlessansearmuffs topic next week.
Thoughts/ who will fire the first salvos?
I'll go first:
Dated Film: GF, LALD
Dated scene: OHMSS when Draco tells Bond, "She needs a man to dominate her". I was at a screening of this movie a few years back and when this line was said, lots folks in the audience just burst out laughing.
Films that have held up extremely well:
FRWL This espionage tale has just gotten better with age.
OHMSS despite the cringe worthy line mentioned earlier, this film has survived the test of time remarkably well.
GE Brosnan's first (and best film) has aged but it doesn't show
Scenes that have survived gracefully: PTS of TSWLM and MR skydiving stunt. Despite the OTT before the credits roll, I never tire of watching Bond being thrown out of a plane without a parachute, my favorite stunt and timeless.
Tracy's death from OHMSS this sequence still tugs at the heart strings.
thats all for now Originals
So, where are we? Not a lot of votes in yet, but two excellent ideas from members; thanks.
Therefore, I'm fine with switching the topic now. So, although you jumped the gun a bit @OHMSS69, I'll say let's roll with that for the next 4 days or so.
TOPIC is now: Timeless or Dated
Which Bond films - or individual scenes - do you feel are really timeless, hold up well now and probably will continue to do so ... ^:)^
or which feel already dated? :!!
Please give a little details on why.
I'll switch the topic after about 4 days. But let's go with this today. We can tackle Humor in Bond Films after this one, if others agree. Then perhaps the Bond Fantasy Dinner; we shall see. B-)
But for right now, OHMSS69 has started us out, so let's continue. :)
Cheers!
dated: millenium bug scene in TWINE. cool back then but now it's too 1999-ish :P
And thanks for joining us, @DaltonCraig007; I agree with your choices, too.
I think also that Sean's intro, in the casino, in Dr. No is timeless.
I think Bond and Vesper's first meeting on the train in Casino Royale is also timeless.
I think the PTS intro of Dalton's Bond in TLD is timeless.
I think much of LALD's look, tone, and certainly dress sense is dated - but fun! ;)
I think Sean's terry cloth jumper and slapping of Dink's Bottom in GF is definitely dated. And yuk.
I may not be able to add more today, but I wanted to get these in for myself.
Who's next? :D
From Russia With Love feels very Hitchcock- very Fifties thriller holdover. On Her Majesty's Secret Service is SO mod with the boots & mini's & splashes of Batman-like colour everywhere. Unmistakably the era of Woodstock. Live And Let Die is so clearly from the edge of the Blacksploitation phenomena it's actually funny ("Names is for tombstones, baby. Take this honky out & waste him."). And For Your Eyes Only sports a severe late Seventies Disco beat (Even in the bloody gunbarrel!!).
One thing fashion-wise dates terribly IMO: Men's hats. Whenever I see those old 50's/early 60's hats I cringe a bit. Bond in some shots in the first two, Felix & other agents in GF.... @-)
We could find things in every film that could "date" it (LTK with its Miami Vice look, DAD with its over reliance on Nineties technology, AVTAK with the Duran Duran heavy metal theme song). These are all "minor" glitches and I don't slam a film for these as they are acceptable.
Certain films (like GF and LALD ) just shout it out: they are dated.
Maybe its just me....
Of course, @chrisisall, nobody is saying certain dated films are bad. I have always loved GF and LALD is enjoyable. While other films are so bad that being dated adds to the horrors (DAF,DAD, )
Fortunately, I am able to ignore those obvious things. What I would consider outdated at this point are some of the clumsier stereotypes of the 60s. No "Quarrell, fetch my shoes" or 'curing' Pussy of her lesbianism in this day and age anymore. I'm not saying those things were out of place in the 60s; I'm saying they wouldn't work today.
TB and OHMSS with their lush colors look highly polished and they just jump out at you. Some of Hitchcock's 50's color films look very sharp as compared to some later color films.
Back to the dated scenes: the volcano erupting during the climax of YOLT would not fly today for its cheesyness. That exploding Soviet sub in DAF is pretty bad too. Without harping too much on one of my least favorite films, DAF just looks cheap all around despite coming out after TB and OHMSS. I guess Connery's salary and the car chase ate up most of the budget....
:P
Oh for me the worst effect in the series is when Blofeld's sattelite blows stuff up in DAF :P Objects just turn tomato red and explode :P
EDIT: while I think of it, Kananga's death was hilarious too, it was like Cubby asked a kid to draw Kananga's face on a balloon :D
The Kananga balloon was pure Looney Tunes.
As for dated, I agree on both the YOLT volcano explosion and the "tomato red" (well put) satellite explosion in DAF.
;)
Plus that *thewwwue* sound effect planted in the *boom* so prevalent in UK movie & TV productions back then just sold it for me!
I would say that FRWL, GE and CR are closer to be timeless (even if there is a very clear representation of the Cold War, the information era and the war on terrorism).
M: “Exposition Macguffin Gibson, 007! Exposition Scaramanga!!”
000: “But sir, Exposition Scaramanga Exposition Macguffin…then Exposition Gibson?”
M: “Well then, you’d better Exposition Scaramanga before he can Macguffin, hadn’t you!”
TMWTGG appears hopelessly dated to me in many ways, from the solex agitator which should have solved the energy crisis back in the early ‘70s since Bond does recover it by film’s end….to the relentless treatment of Mary Goodnight as an air headed bimbo…to (wait for it) the totally unnecessary return of J.W. Pepper and his trademark racism. While there was a need for this character in LALD (race being an inescapable facet of that particular storyline) he’s totally out of place in TMWTGG, and seems shoehorned in for no reason I’ve ever been able to establish. Without Pepper along for the ride, I suspect the infamous slidewhistle sound effect might never have been added to that spectacular car jump stunt. The only thing that saves this movie from being hopelessly dated in my mind is Christopher Lee’s performance as Scaramanga. He’s easily one of the top 10 villains in Bond history, and really deserved a better script to exist in!
* I don't dislike this film as much as the other two but nonetheless my issues are similar.
Each Bond film, even DAD, is a child of its time. Twenty years from now, we'll be laughing when we remember the days when CGI so obviously looked like CGI, the days before the likes of Dawn Of The Planet Of The Apes made CGI virtually indistinguishable from the real stuff. And in a way it may be 'good' that we have a Bond film even in that department. ;-) (Yeah, I know, it's a stretch but still.)
Remember Hitchcock? --> FRWL
Remember Miami Vice? --> LTK
Remember Bourne? --> QOS
...
I think this is precisely part of the appeal of over half a century of cinematic Bond. Bond does not withstand the erosion of time; Bond almost symbolises it like few other film series do. And frankly, that's at least one reason why I'm such a fan of the Bonds. The formula may be timeless, the character of Bond may be timeless (despite a few trend shifts here and there) but the contemporary lay-out of each film is cemented in that narrow time interval in which the film is released. The Bond series is part of our cinematic history rather than disconnected from it. And why should that be a bad thing?
'Outdated' sounds so bad when in fact I doubt it is. I would rather think of the Bonds as monuments in the history of film, not ruins that should shame away because they are old. I'm always a little angry when people call themselves "Bond fans" while they strictly love the Craig films but admit they haven't watched nor feel inclined to watch the older Bonds. Most of the Bonds were once the coolest thing of the moment. So were Shakespeare and Mozart. They no longer are. But they have become part of our cultural DNA, which is far better in the end than being the coolest thing around. I think the same applies to Bond. The Bonds really have found their way into our cultural DNA and my guess is they will stay there, like the stories of Jules Verne, E.A. Poe or H.G. Wells, and like the music of Bach and Beethoven. Transformers may be cool today, but unlike Bond, Transformers will not grow into a branch on the tree of cultural eternity, or so I think. Kids eventually outgrow Transformers and as young adults or grown-ups discover the timeless cool of for example the Connery Bond. Because like I said, while the older Bond movies may be built from certain elements that are only found at exhibitions or in collections today (e.g. the cars, the clothes, the tech), Bond himself isn't a slave to the fourth dimension, he commands it.
In this case, the pseudo-science seems to have had a fair degree of plausibility.
Science was never my strong point, but the idea of the solex thing and focusing mirrors has a modern day parallel of sorts; have a look at CSP (concentrated solar power) technologies,
As to the film itself and whether it's dated or timeless? It's both. But more timeless than dated I'd say. I think it's churlish to point to fashions, prevailing social norms, editing style, pacing, production values etc. as being dated. Of course they are - it was made 40 yrs ago.
I think the only elements which are truly dated, come from the frequently jocular approach of late 20th century Bonds. If the jokes were good enough maybe it would have been a different story - however the shoddy sight gags, one liners and self-referential, self-indulgent moments of comic relief are what are most likely to confuse and distract audiences today.
I do remember resenting the worst offenders at the time as a callow youth - the swanee whistle car jump in particular grated tremendously. Now I'm nearly 50 those lapses in good taste have become magnified in my disdain for them. But I don't want to over emphasise. Taken as a whole, the man with the golden gun is still a thoroughly enjoyable romp - which makes it timeless in my book.