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The only films of that period I suppose I really liked were The Godfather and Get Carter. which both had nothing to do with Bond.
I enjoyed the likes of North By Northwest (FRWL), Indiana Jones (Octopussy), True Lies (Goldeneye) and The Bourne films (Casino Royale - Skyfall). Perhaps thats why I can appreciate those Bond movies more.
Hear hear @Dimi! I seem to remember from a (long) while ago the two of us agreeing that Bond films can be taken as historical documents of the last 50 years in several aspects - politics, geopolitics, technology, style, clothing... :)
Now that's an interesting point, @Darth, one I hadn't really considered before. In a very real sense, Eon has always tried to have the Bond films be both timeless AND solidly a part of their times. It's a difficult goal, one that they can't always attain...but like Bond himself, they'll always be out there striving for success!
9is this mountain computer working/0
As for me, I am quite happy to see so many great comments and thoughtful and fun observations. I agree with much of what I am reading here.
I am typing while lying sideways on my bed with my leg propped up and my knee wrapped. It is slightly better. Typhoon just finished and I have no commitments today for a change, so I am just resting. I really need it.
Carry on, everybody! :>
No offence, BAIN but I think you need to brush up on your 70's movies as that period produced some of the best movies in modern times. How can you not be impressed with Three Days of the Condor, The Conversation, The Parallax View, The Day of the Jackal, The Odessa File, The French Connection, to name but a few? I also didn't watch Charlies Angels in the 70's but then I wouldn't use that to define one of the most creative cinematic decades. And as for Dukes, I associate that more with the 80's than 70's.
I suppose what I meant was that I wasn't into the films/style that Bond nodded to during that period.
Forgive me @bondsum :\">
It's funny, every time I see that scene in QoS where Bond leaves Green to die in the desert I always think of the scene in The Eiger Sanction... another 70's movie!!
I highly approve of all of these films. =D>
1 ~ Is it a good idea to have M be a woman once again, after Fiennes tenure ends?
I wouldn't object to it, but it would need to be someone near Judi Dench's acting level and less maternal. After Ralph Fiennes's run, I'm thinking Helena Bonham Carter with a toned down wardrobe and again, less maternal.
2 ~ How long do you think Fiennes will play M? Only during Craig's era? Which may be only 2 more films. Will he - or should he - continue with the next Bond actor?
I think Ralph will have a good run as M that will go beyond the Craig era. I daresay 2030 for him. He's still young enough where he could play M for a while. I'm one of those who thinks there should be some sort of continuity with the cast. Fiennes or Ben Whishaw would be the best candidates. Heck, if everything plays out right, Ben could make it to Bond 100.
3 ~ Do you want to see M now go through his own story arc, over the course of the next films? Do you want that to be a part of the plot, or just a minor reference if anything at all?
I think we should go back to the traditional M who is there when needed or at least for the next few films to make it more about Bond than Bond and M. At the most, a storyline within a storyline.
4 ~ Do you want this M to be married or stay single? (I do not think we know if he is married yet, not specifically).
Let's leave M's personal life out of the future storylines.
Ranking of the M's:
1. Bernard Lee: The first, the best, the prototype.
2. Judi Dench: When you have Judi Dench at your disposal, you kind of have to give more than just a desk job. I don't think another female could have pulled off her M character though.
3. Robert Brown: Was actually a good M and stay in the Bernard Lee vain. He was just overshadowed by Lee and Dench.
4. Ralph Fiennes: A worthy actor of filling Judi Dench's shoes. Let's see where he goes with the M character.
Timeless:
FRWL - A timeless classic representing the early 60s before the hippies ruled the planet.
TB - A well preserved film that addresses the nuclear era and how close we were to blowing ourselves up.
FYEO - The score may be dated, but the best of the latter Cold War era with a simple plot that could yet hold true. Also, the first we saw a main character as a double agent.
TLD - Remember the good old days when the US and UK would support rogue Middle Eastern sects fighting off Commies? Those rogue Middle Eastern sects are still around.
LTK - While toned down from the late 80s/early 90s, there's still drug cartels and violence out there.
GE - GE's plot could somewhat play out with Putin running Russia.
TND - There's still mad media moguls out there who would do less crazier stuff for ratings.
TWINE - Stockholm Syndrome/PTSD is a relevant issue today.
Dated:
DN - Even during its release, DN felt very retro 50s.
GF - No one's crazy enough to try to break into Fort Knox.
YOLT - We now know there's no such thing as spaceship eating spaceships being launched through an active volcano.
OHMSS - Enough of a psychedelic feel to it to make OHMSS seem dated.
All the 70s films - Diamond satellites, Blaxploitation, horrible fashion, disco, OTT fascination with space, pick one.
OP - Very timely during the height of the Cold War, but not so much now.
AVTAK - This film was dated when it was released. Also, I ruled GF as being dated.
And indeed they are, @DaltonCraig007! I learned more about the Cold War from Fleming and the Bond films than from my history teacher. ;-)
Not a joke, by the way. :-)
I'm very happy to read the participation on here; good reading. Nice to see DarthDimi, 0013, BAIN123, soundofthesinners, Anon, DaltonCraig007, Bondsum, and WillyGalore here, too; along with our BeatlesSansEarmuffs, OHMSS69. and chrisisall.
@Kerim, that was laid out very well and I agree with all of your thoughts on M (I can even picture Bonham Carter in the role!). Your lists for dated and timeless have me thinking that over again. I'll post my thoughts on dated and timeless more fully late today.
Cheers! B-)
So you sort of have FYEO in your blood. Not bad. ;) One of my fav films.
And btw, DAF is NOT that dated IMO because it swims in TWO eras & therefore is bound to neither.
:-bd
When I hear the word "dated" like something is dated, it carries a bit of a negative meaning for me. But that is not necessarily fully what I mean at times. It does mean to me that something (film, photo, drawing, music, whatever) reflects a specific previous time or era.
"Timeless" for me means that something is still relevant and meaningful and attractive today as it was when it was first produced. It can still carry the style and themes of a particular period.
Anyway, I'd like to list some moments in Bond films that I consider dated, a combination of those that simply reflect a style or period strongly and those that don't seem to fit today, carry a more negative connotation for me, or are a bit "out of synch" in feeling:
Dated (some I mentioned previously):
~ Bond slapping Dink's bottom and telling her to leave, saying "Man-talk". AND Sean's ridiculous terry cloth (or poplin; whatever) outfit. I mean, really.
~ The hats on the men in the earliest Bond films (as chrisisall mentioned); definitely dated but that just contributes to the authenticity of the time period
~ the two gypsy women fighting and the ambiance/attitude that permeates it in FRWL
~ the clothes and godawful rather dated music of TMWTGG (although I also find it amusing, it is definitely dated); also the karate/kung fu fight by the schoolgirls and Moore in the same film
~ the costumes and attitudes displayed in LALD (again, I find it a rather amusing period piece; not saying that is a big negative, just that it is dated)
~ The Afghan freedom fighters in TLD
~ Pam's entire wardrobe in the whole film (LTK)
~ Moneypenny in TLD (Do I really need to elaborate? No, I didn't think so.)
~ The disco influenced tracks in FYEO
~ The entire trippy 60's feel of OHMSS really dates it
~ Turning Sean Japanese in YOLT (would that be dated? or just a very BAD IDEA?) ;)
~ the virtual reality scene in DAD
I'm sure I can add more later, but that is my first full list of dated moments in Bond films. B-)
For the younger members this will be bigger problem, as it is I find the franchise full of thrythfull moments that are a document of their time. Some less complimentary as one would want, but it represents a half century of movie making and shows the world changing and 007 with it, again not always for the best.
FRWL is dated in the sense of representing culture, clothes style, music, etc. But the quality of the whole film shines through. So though it captures a period of time well, it also rises above that to simply be a story well told that is in its own way rather timeless in its appeal.
I will list some more moments I feel are timeless in a few hours. I've got to get back to sleep now. Carry on, everybody.
We shall have one more day for this topic, then move on to Humor in Bond Films.
:)>-
They are always of their time and of course the wardrobe, hair styles, office machines, transportation, etc. will reflect that.
For me, I'm going to say the following films are timeless Bond films. By that I mean they have stood the test of time, and although dated by wardrobe and other factors perhaps, they are of such quality that the story as told in that particular film still has good merit. With that explanation, I'll say only four, with the top two being the strongest:
From Russia With Love
Casino Royale
For Your Eyes Only
Tomorrow Never Dies
When I think of Bond films, I really do not mind them being a capsule of their era; I enjoy that for the most part. I find that a few films are so excellent that they just stand out in quality and will probably always stay in the upper half of my rankings.
I also find many lovely timeless moments in Bond films. I may list more specific scenes later. But that is my impression of the overall timeless Bond films, taken as a whole film. (And it is too soon for me to list Skyfall, but it is in my top ten and a few years from now I may consider that as timeless, too. I think its fine qualities will last.)
I will switch our topic over to Bond Humor in about 12 hours. So please list your "dated" or "timeless" elements of Bond films, or entire films, today. This has been a great round of discussion; thanks to all.
Cheers! B-)
It's funny, isn't it? Humor is such a flexible thing. ;)
Everybody thinks they have a sense of humor. What some people enjoy as funny, others may be bored or baffled by it. With a British spy at the heart of the Bond stories, humor is not the natural comfy overall fit for these films. Plus, since Bond began and became the iconic mega spy of all spies, imitators abound, all flush with varying levels of humor. So let's look at humor in all of the Bond films, through the entire series. :O)
Please give your thoughts on humor, in any way you'd like. Short and sweet. Full essays. Favorites vs. Duds. Any discussion is welcome.
Here are just some things to think about for this topic:
~ What examples of humor do you find in early Bond films?
~ How did humor change during the following years?
~ What was the first instance of "over the top" humor?
~ How much humor is needed in a Bond film, anyway?
~ Which are your favorite humorous scenes?
~ Which films have a good balance of humor and which seem far too campy, over the top, or just misfired/misplaced humor?
~ Which Bond actor's handling of humor do you like best? Or like least?
I'll be posting my initial thoughts later, but please do jump right in. I'm looking forward to reading your comments about humor and James Bond. Yes, considerably. :>
The first attempt at humor we find is in DN when Bond tells the officers at King House to "make sure he doesn't get away." As far as I can recall this is the first attempt at humor in what up to this point had been a pretty serious thriller.
Throughout the decade of the sixties, there are some well placed one liners here and there. FRWL, like DN seemed to keep the one liners to the bare minimial.
It was with the third film and with first time Bond director, Guy Hamilton that we see more light hearted stuff but all in all it was presented in a tasteful manner.
Sean Connery was also good at going from tough gentleman agent to a fun one liner here and there. Most memorable would be in TB: the comment after he kills the sadistic Vargas, and after Fiona Volpe meets her demise.
The humor began to get out of hand with the 1970's. Starting with DAF. EON decided it was time to have fun with the Bond image and they tossed a thrilling plot from the book aside, the pull to make a serious revenge film and replaced it with a campy, light hearted fest. Though DAF has its serious moments, the film still has some silly humor that ruined it for me. The all low being when they decided that Blofeld should compete with Norman Bates as the World's Worst Cross Dresser.
Roger Moore stepped in and the humor was found to be his strong suit and the productions began to play to this more and more. His early films followed the trend of DAF but the humor hit an all time low with MR, his fourth outing.
The attempt was made to tone it down some, so for the remainder of Moore's tenue, his films would follow the standard set by TSWLM. A good blend of suspense, and thrills but some well placed humor thrown in here and there. IMO, his sixth film, OP like TSWLM managed to find a good balance between the suspense and the humorous stuff.
Yes, I concur with you that the first crossing over into injecting more definite, and stronger/campier humor into the series first really happened with DAF. My goodness, yes, it was startlingly different from the previous Bond films when it comes to humor. I enjoyed Wint and Kidd but was still taken aback a bit by them, and then when Blofeld made his girlish disguise debut, I was flummoxed. DAF is such a mixed bag, in my opinion.
I also feel that FYEO was a great Bond film and was the most balanced regarding humor of all of Moore's films. Octopussy was mostly okay in that department, with a couple of OTT instances.
Moore, for sure, could handle light humor and throwaway quips better than any other Bond actor (better than most actors of any kind of film, period). Playing to that strength was okay when it was balanced.
I do like this icon because of Sir Roger: :>
The Seventies was a loss. Yeah, Connery handled quips well in DAF, but in general it was Adam West Batman time at the MI6 safe house.
The Eighties was the new era of increasing humor restraint (and therefore effectiveness) culminating in Dalton's two- chuckles were not as well handled since the Sixties! Bravo!
Humor in the Nineties was like what you brought home on Halloween as a kid; some of it was delicious and some of it went right to the garbage can (fancy way of saying a mixed bag).
The 21st Century has been harsh. DAD was unintentionally humorous while attempting seriousness and too silly whilst attempting the humorous, and Craig's films have been fairly straightforwardly dire.
My favorite humor scenes? The ones that come to mind for me would be the comment made by Sharkey after Killifer is killed. "What a Waste...The Money." and the face he makes is timeless. Interesting that this humorous one liner was not delivered by Dalton but by a supporting actor.
Another one of my favorites would be the OP scenes with the gorilla suit. I know some of my fellow originals will classify it as OTT but I found the whole scene rather humorous. Especially when Moore in gorilla suit quickly checks his watch for the time. I just burst out laughing whenever I see this scene. The scenes prior to the Tiger hunt when Bond is pretending to be a corpse. Really funny.
Which films had the best balance? Like I said earlier my nominations would be TSWLM and OP. The most OTT? DAF and MR. MR could have been an entertaining film had it been edited more tightly, instead it falls too far into slapstick and this just ruins the film. DAF is plain bad.
Which actor had the best delivery? Sean Connery. He originated the one lines and like @chrisisall says, the loathing and delight just makes his one liners timeless.
The worst? it would be easy to dump on Dalton here as the one liners were not his strong suit but I reserve my dumping for Pierce Brosnan. His humor just felt forced and like he was trying too hard instead of just being himself. All the other Bonds got it for the most part but Pierce just falls so short.
Let us remember that humor is not always limited to a one liner and comedic timing.