SirHenryLeeChaChing's For Original Fans - Favorite Moments In NTTD (spoilers)

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    OHMSS69 wrote: »
    The worst? it would be easy to dump on Dalton here as the one liners were not his strong suit but I reserve my dumping for Pierce Brosnan. His humor just felt forced and like he was trying too hard instead of just being himself. All the other Bonds got it for the most part but Pierce just falls so short.
    Why dump at all? Both Tim & Pierce were no Connery, and their one-liners could not possibly compare. That's like comparing Bruce Lee to Jackie Chan...
    ;)
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    edited August 2014 Posts: 4,341
    My favorite humorous scene from the Brosnan era (possibly even since then), is 7 minutes into the pre titles sequence of GE, when Bond crosses the room behind the trolley with the squeaking wheels. Ourumovs' grin in disbelief is pure gold! Anyway, it's not Brosnan who delivers the humor, rather Martin Campbell's setup with 100 guns pointed at Brosnan, while there is no sound but the squeaky wheels.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited August 2014 Posts: 15,716
    My favorite humour scene is probably the Bond + Anya vs Jaws in the desert from TSWLM. I't just so damn hilarous and entertaining, I love it! It seems like Moore was having the time of his life during that scene :D
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    My favourite LOL moment is the "Talk here; listen here" exchange in TND. :))
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Good mentions, everybody. And @OHMSS69, thanks for your touching on the questions I asked. Just to get them on this page, here they are again:

    ~ What examples of humor do you find in early Bond films?

    ~ How did humor change during the following years?

    ~ What was the first instance of "over the top" humor?

    ~ How much humor is needed in a Bond film, anyway?

    ~ Which are your favorite humorous scenes?

    ~ Which films have a good balance of humor and which seem far too campy, over the top, or just misfired/misplaced humor?

    ~ Which Bond actor's handling of humor do you like best? Or like least
    ?

    These are just starters; you don't need to answer all of them but it is nice if they are touched on over the next few days. These are just to get us thinking about things to discuss regarding humor in Bond films.

    For me, I especially enjoyed all the interaction between Pierce and Desmond. :-bd I think they had great chemistry; the humor in their scenes was delicious. They are my favorite pairing of Bond and Q.

    Some scenes and pairings I also enjoy a lot are:
    The whole fighting Jaws in the Pyramids then trekking through the desert in evening wear (TSWLM; as previously mentioned by DaltonCraig007). I find the humor in this film sparkling and fun; it is still one of my favorite Bond films.

    The escape by cello with Dalton and D'Abo; I found it amusing and nicely done. His exasperation with her throughout the film seems natural and I found that humorous. Their romance was rather well played. Aside from the cello scene, also him taxiing the plane and watching as she drove the jeep, trying to communicate with her; his exasperation is hilarious.

    The entire intro scene with Daniel and Eva on the train in CR. A timeless scene for me, very well acted, with nice wit and spark. I think Dan does best with dry wit, with that tinge of sauciness or subtle sarcasm. And thinking of him, he has had good humorous moments. For other examples, the entire scene of breaking into Judi's apartment in Skyfall; and I liked his banter and chemistry with Eve very much ("... nothing major"). I think they should in general stick to that sort of humor for his films. I believe the whole bit of Bond jumping on the front of the train in Skyfall, with the man commenting to the woman, "He's keen to get home" was a deliberate nod to Moore's era. It was okay, the entire scene, but just that one part with that comment and the delivery of it and the way the couple looked - it took me back immediately to Moore-land. I'm glad that only happened once in Skyfall. As a one time nod, that was acceptable. But I wouldn't want more of that in Craig's era.

    In general, I appreciate do witty, dry humor, and more subtle humor in Bond films. That works best for me.

    However ... I also enjoyed Bond in a gorilla suit, and although it was rather OTT, it amused me and did not make me feel it was far too much (unlike the Bondola, for example, which I truly found not funny, just stupid and annoying). I find plenty of decent humor in the Moore films, sprinkled generously with sometimes going too outlandish (like most of Moonraker). But even in Moonraker (definitely stupid clown and overblown yuk-yuk land), I could find a good line delivery by Moore enjoyable ("Did I?" as he shoots the assassin out of the tree and answers Drax's comment that he missed his shot). Yet much of Moonraker is buffoonery of the unfunny kind.

    What else? Well, I love the scenes with Pierce and Robbie Coltrane very much. Oh yes! That kind of banter and chemistry was great fun and they both had some very good lines.

    Who had the best delivery of quips? There is the more subtle, serious, hint of sarcasm or stifled pleasure, always with a hint of danger, from Sean - which I like a lot. But I also like Roger's delivery of lines, his body language (yes, the raised eyebrow, too) and demeanor. Some of Roger's humor was too stupid or OTT but for the most part he was smooth and genuinely funny so many times. I like his line delivery very much indeed ("Just keeping the British end up, sir" is just one).

    Unlike other fans, I found Pierce's delivery to be fine. I like his Bond and honestly I did not find the line delivery seeming forced in his first three films. The only downbeat for me is in DAD. DAD's script had incredibly stupid dialog. I thought he was fine in most of the film - but there was an essence there, just a slight difference ... because the film was so awful, the lines so terrible, and the film changed from being potentially quite good to stupid ... where I think Pierce did not enjoy saying them. Just my feeling about it. (I still like his "Put your back into it," remark, though). ;)

    I'll find more to write about late today. There are many fine scenes throughout the years that made me laugh or smile. Please continue to share some of your favorites - and least favorites - regarding humor in Bond films.

    Cheers!
    :)>-
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 2,341
    Some more of my favorite humorous scenes:
    YOLT Olga"I have you" Bond, "Then you'd better enjoy yourself,"

    TB I liked the pool scene where Largo with the skeet rifle turns to Bond with the gun pointed at him and Bond (Connery's perfect style. HE WAS SO FRIGGIN COOL ) just calmly moves the gun away so its not pointing at him. This was a subtle but masterful scene well handled by both actors.

    TSWLM after the fight at the construction sight and Bond and Anya drive away, Jaws drops the boulder on his foot. That was cute and funny. The climatic end to a funny sequence.

    DAF Tiffany to Metz "Keep tooting on that honker and you're gonna get a shot in the mouth" and to the annoying kid at the water baloons, "Go blow up your pants." How many of us have wanted to say that to an annoying kid? Though I did not care for the film, it does have some great zingers.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Connery and Moore were the only Bonds to get the humour aspect right.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Hmm...Moore could be too smirky on occasions and ended up like your ageing dad trying to be funny ("THAT is not the soap"). Though there are other times when he gets it just right.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Yes, Moore's humor could be a clunker ... but when you look at the amount of work he did, all his time as Bond, he had plenty of sparkling and nicely timed humor, too. AVTAK has some not so good Bond moments, especially humor wise. But then we have FYEO and TSWLM from him, which were both great.

    I can accept more than one kind of humor in Bond films, as it suits the story and actor. But the big OTT scenes ... especially when permeating the entire film ... I can do without those ever returning (Moonraker and DAD, mainly looking at you).

    For me, I'll do a quick note regarding my appreciation of the humor in all the Bond films, not just individual scenes:

    Dr No - subtle, not much, suited the story; Bond was cool!
    FRWL - similar and very much suited the story; some playfulness with Tania was very nicely done
    GF - a bit more, and Connery's assurance and delivery was confident
    TB - same; Connery handled all lines with a smoothness and sincerity, that hint of danger beneath the wit

    So in those first four, the humor was mild or just starting to add a bit to the film but really handled well and complemented the whole film.

    YOLT - Here things go a bit "off" humor wise for me, but I admit mostly because of the "turning Bond Japanese" routine.

    OHMSS - Now, I know many love this film but I only like parts of it. The humor for the most part is what I do not enjoy. It came across as stupid and annoying to me. Those stupid, silly girls for one thing. Bond as Hillary ... just no. But still not yet over the top or totally ruinous for the film.

    DAF - The first true entry into camp, as has been mentioned. I like some of the lines between Bond and Tiffany. But it was definitely a mixed feeling, this film, uneven and though I like parts, it sure felt like a different kind of Bond film. So, mixed feelings re the humor.

    LALD - Such a take on the era, the blaxploitation, the funkiness, the fashion, etc. I enjoy the film as a period piece per se and I love the theme song and whole soundtrack. But humor? Well, this was Moore's first and his own style was coming through just fine. JW Pepper, however, was OTT and a strong contrast to Bond. Love him or hate him, I think JW Pepper noticeably marked the turning point in OTT outlandish humor injected into Bond films.

    TMWTGG - I was disappointed in the film, and I got annoyed at Moore's Bond for his treatment of Goodnight (and I found her so silly, not amusing). I found Nick Nack to be quite annoying but not funny, and of course JW made another appearance. I found the humor in this one not to be for me. I don't watch it often.

    TSWLM - Yay! Finally, I got the Bond film I had been wanting, with a great performance by Moore and humor that I really enjoyed throughout. It was smoother, funny, witty, silly at times (Jaws dropping the block on his foot) but it worked. I like the humor in this film, I really do. For me, the humor sparkles in TSWLM.

    Moonraker - And then we plummet to the depths of Bond films. Yuk. Far too over the top, outlandish, and stupid humor mixed with Corrine's horrible death (so not funny) and just a few good lines by Drax and Bond. Bad, unfunny film that turned Jaws into a buffoon and that was not all: we also had Dolly, a ludicrous laser fight in space, and the horrendous Bondola. Ugh.

    FYEO - What a relief! Bouncing back from the unfunny abyss that was MR, this film pulls together everything in a good balance. My favorite, delightful performance by Moore, and the humor shines just right throughout this fine story. Well done!

    Octopussy - Mostly okay, but a few OTT moments that seemed silly for sure. Not so bad as Moonraker (nothing is; though DAD comes close). The nice chemistry between Maud and Roger helped and I liked Bond in the clown suit because it contrasted the seriousness and tension of the scenes.

    AVTAK - Mostly no, not good humor. The "California Girls" moment, the keystone cops chase scene with the fire truck, and the final shower scene; no, it just felt stupid. A blimp nearly running down Stacy. I wish it had; I found Stacy so irritating. But I enjoyed Fiona's moments with Moore, yes. That had a nice spark, but that was about all.

    TLD - as I've mentioned, I enjoyed the humor in this film. It suited the characters well and was nicely played. Not OTT or stupid.

    LTK - what little humor they tried to inject did not sit well with me. Q in the field like that, in that way? No. The winking fish at the end? No. But overall, it was a very serious film, darker indeed.

    Goldeneye - a rather superb effort with good humor throughout. The only moments I did not care for were the stupid female assessor at the beginning (I think her name was Caroline) and the moment when the bicyclists toppled over like dominoes (that was my only "Oh are we going there again?" moment; meaning Moore's more silly humor). Other than that, which both occurred early on, I enjoyed the film tremendously including the repartee with Natalya and Bond and the great intro of the new M - and of course I already mentioned how I enjoyed Robbie's Valentin Zukovsky.

    TND- One of my most watched Bond films. I think it has a good balance of serious scenes mixed with humor that mostly worked quite well. As always, I enjoyed Desmond and Pierce's scenes a lot. Carver was not OTT in my opinion; silly and someone we were happy to see killed off. But I did not find OTT or truly stupid humor in this film.

    TWINE - This is more of a mixed bag for humor. Loved Valentin coming back for this one; that was the best part. I find Christmas Jones lacking in every way pretty much and what humor there was in the film was slim. Very unfunny final ending. Not a well written story, no.

    DAD - Just a hash of bad and stupid decisions to make such a mess of this film. Terrible CGI, crappy dialog and wrong direction given to actors (especially the entire character of Jinx), so overall a poor Bond film with humor that jarred. As soon as Bond entered the hotel dripping wet in his hospital garb, the film went downhill quickly. Shame. It could have been so much better. I do not find the humor in this film enjoyable, no. It usually bounces off the bottom of my list alternating with Moonraker.

    CR - Fine film in every way, including sparkling dialog, wit, and the right balance of humor throughout. I cannot fault it at all in the humor department. It went back to being subtle, dry wit with many good lines; I appreciate the balance of humor in this film. More my cup of tea.

    QOS - A chaotic, poorly edited film that feels off kilter. I did not find much humor in this film really. What amused me? Well, I did enjoy the Opera scene, in which I found humor in Bond's comments as he let the Quantum members know he was watching them. Lacking but nothing terribly bad, humor wise.

    Skyfall - Back to a very good balance of humor and a great Bond film. Solid dialog, sparkling and witty at times, much more to my liking and Craig's delivery was fine throughout. M and Bond, Eve and Bond, the new Q and Bond - all had very good scenes, with the right touch of humor.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    I want my humor in a Bond film clever and in good taste. Not too many silly puns and certainly no slap-stick. Some of the things they did in TMWTGG, MR and OP give me goosebumps. I believe that in recent years, humor in the Bonds has become more balanced. Some unfortunate moments remain of course.

    In QOS, for example, I can't understand why we need to focus on an Italian woman lamenting her broken jars of tomato mash. Here we have a foot chase, shot and edited by people who seem to eat XTC for breakfast; hardly any shot lasts more than a second. Is that vague silhouette Bond or Mitchell? I don't know. And why we need to constantly cut back to the turmoil in the street, is beyond me. Those cuts serve no purpose other than to pull me out of the chase even more and leave me even more confused! And amidst all the fuss, blurry action, ten-cuts-per-second rage, I suddenly need to watch a woman going mad over broken jars and then get back into the moment and take Bond's final confrontation with Mitchell seriously? I'm sorry, at that point I'm swallowing aspirins to combat the headache resulting from one of the clumsiest editing jobs in the history of the Bonds. So I'm not laughing, lady. Sorry.

    Also, I hate it when we go into stereotypes. Yes yes, Italians and their "Maaamaaa miaaaa!" get some people to laugh - perhaps - but that has the comedic sophistication of a fart in a raunchy 80s sex comedy. This isn't The Pink Panther! Some of the very worst of the worst include:
    - the Germans and their sausages in OP
    - the Indian street performers in ... oh look, OP again
    - the stereotypical clumsy fat American policeman in DAF, LALD and ATVAK

    But the worst, the VERY WORST, is AVTAK's cab driver. What is that guy doing? "My caaaa! My caaaa!", meanwhile performing some kind of weird dance with his feet and arms, as if this is a Benny Hill show. AVTAK has enough issues with plot logic and credibility as it is, we really don't need a 5 year old's concept of "making fun with the French and their funny language: hihihihi" in this particular Bond film - or any other for that matter.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2014 Posts: 12,480
    "... oh look, OP again" you just cracked me up, @DarthDimi! With your entire post actually. Excellent points, my good sir, all of it. And I had totally forgotten that moment in QOS; now every time I see it (granted, not often) I'll think of you and chuckle.

    Stereotypes, stereotypes, they do abound don't they? Oh, I do think The Pink Panther comparison is apt for certain moments in certain Bond films. ;)

    Okay, I'm reading your post again and laughing. This is the best laugh I've had all day (yeah, it's been a quiet day). You said: "Here we have a foot chase, shot and edited by people who seem to eat XTC for breakfast; hardly any shot lasts more than a second. Is that vague silhouette Bond or Mitchell? I don't know."
    I don't know either! :-O
  • Posts: 11,189
    I agree with you @Darth. The moments with the French cabbie in AVTAK are pretty dire. Also Aubergine (?) is a pure French stereotype c
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited August 2014 Posts: 24,173
    Thank you, @4EverBonded and @BAIN123. ;-) And yes indeed, Aubergine is pretty much an insult to the French as well. People complain about Tanya as the silly blonde; she at least had some fabulous looks for our indulgence. ;-)

    I would like to raise a point concerning Timothy Dalton's Bonds and humor, or rather the alleged lack of humor in those films. As far as TLD is concerned, I think the humor was in excellent equilibrium with the film. I am glad though that they cut the magic carpet ride; that scene might as well have destroyed the entire film for me. Anyway, there is humor in TLD, but it's not of the kind that Homer Simpson would appreciate. I like, for example, when Bond insists that he will not stop for the cello and the film immediately cuts to him sitting in the car waiting for Kara and her cello, making the delicious remark about the violin. It helps that Dalton and d'Abo have some of the best ever Bondian chemistry between them, for their acting alone makes the moment great. And it happens constantly throughout the film. When Kara remarks that they are free and Bond dryly points out they're in the middle of a Russian airbase in Afghanistan, I laugh. I also laugh with the horse's arse comment and how Kara attacks Bond with those pillows. Maryam d'Abo earns that moment because she acts it out so well. My mother really enjoys the naked Russian soldiers during the attack on the airbase, as they cower away as if they were violated, but that's something else entirely. ;-) Not all bits of comedy work well for me in TLD though. The supervisor with his face crushed between Miss Miklos' two deadly weapons, is IMO a stain on an otherwise excellent film. The salt corrosion bit is somewhat childish but Dalton's great line delivery more than compensates. He got the boot? I'm still not sure about that one.

    In any case, Dalton hardly ever smiled when delivering funny lines; he spat them out, almost with contempt for the fact that society demands a man to get a little cynical in the presence of an adversary or smart in the presence of a dame. But that's what I like about his Bond. I can't help thinking that's how I should read the Fleming Bond too.

    LTK is almost devoid of humor - at least some will say. But the PTS alone has some good stuff in it. I thought Sharky and Della's dad really stole the show. But... I will admit that despite my love for Dalton's Bond and LTK, I have a gripe with LTK's humor. It feels forced and even more so, unbalanced. Clearly the story, one of the most brutal ones in the history of Bond, left but few opportunities for puns, jokes or even funny situations. But some folks must have felt a bit uncomfortable about a humorless Bond film and so they squeezed comedic material in it. A few good things aside (the lighter flame surprising Della, some of Davi's line deliveries, Truman-Lodge (an underestimated beacon of humor in LTK)), most of the funny elements in LTK should never have been there or should at least have been edited better. As I already mentioned, the PTS delivers great material from Sharky and Della's dad, but right about the same time we witness Lupe taking a painful beating from Sanchez. I can neither invest in the comedy nor in the drama. They switch places too fast. However, where the film totally goes off the rails, is when Q gets brought in. I have debated the absurdity of old, loyal Q aiding a rogue agent in other posts before, so I won't make that case now. But I will say this: in a film where one of the surviving Bond girls gets whipped by the villain, where Felix gets massacred by a shark, where his nice wife is killed by a drug lord's goons, where a character is framed by Bond and subsequently executed in the most bloody and gory way, where business associates are terminated in cold blood, where henchmen have forklifts driven through them, where narcotics agents commit suicide with potassium cyanide, where a guerilla fighter gets his body chopped in pieces and where the villain is set on fire by Bond... we have explosive tooth paste, an alarm clock bomb, an X-ray camera which surprisingly enough emits a beam of visible light and a detonator hidden in a pack of cigarettes. So we blend the seriousness of a Michael Mann war-on-drugs plot with gadgets delivered by Loony Tunes! Not to mention the fact that Q dresses up in a sombrero hat, a fake moustache and a peasant's clothing, then manoeuvres a broomstick around in the sandiest streets of South America, merely to signal that Sanchez' cars are on their way. A pair of binoculars and a simple stakeout would have sufficed. I'm glad for poor old Q that LTK didn't take place at a Spring Break festival. Imagine him trying to blend in there. Look, we are constantly asked to shiver and tense up under the rising pressure of Bond feeling the heat around the corner as he slowly dismantles Sanchez' organisation from the inside, yet between every two steps Bond takes, we have at least one scene with Q and Pam and maybe even Lupe which is supposed to make us laugh yet hardly ever does. It's confusing. My only gripe with LTK: for a film that throws all classical charms overboard, it handles its humor in the clumsiest and most confusing way ever. I regret that, because LTK is a Bond film I generally love and admire. Some may argue the comedy in this film is actually complementary to the violence and drama, I say it's the film's worst enemy. LTK is not only the film in which we see the blood stains from whipping on a girl's back, it's also the film in which - HAHAHA! - Bond and 'Uncle Q' must share a room. Hope you don't snore, Q. I can't shake the feeling that they really wanted to make a hard-boiled, serious and edgy Bond film, but cowered away at the last moment and inserted some comedy.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    So we blend the seriousness of a Michael Mann war-on-drugs plot with gadgets delivered by Loony Tunes!
    DD, we see precisely eye-to-eye on TLD, but I am far more forgiving of LTK's mis-steps than you it seems. Still, you have made your argument well sir!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    @chrisisall, don't worry, I'm still a huge fan of LTK. ;-)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @chrisisall, don't worry, I'm still a huge fan of LTK. ;-)
    That's a relief. =D>
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 2,341
    @DarthDimi comment about LTK. You are spot on. After 12 years of humor injected into the series the production teams felt that the humor was expected thus it's inclusion much to some of our chagrin regarding IMO one of the three or four best films in the Bond stable.

    Some of my least favorite humorous scenes
    AVTAK the chase for May Day after Bond leaves the Eifel tower. The cab driver, Bonds car being smashed, finally cumulating in Bond crashing the wedding on the boat. OTT all the way.

    TWINE the line "Christmans comes once a year", and the satellite heat image of Bond and Christmas making love. This was so juvenile. I wanted to barf like a chicken.

    DAD a lot of the humor here was not intended but it comes off as funny. Halle's high dive scene, the invisible car, the parasurfing, the entire ice palace sequence.

    TMWTGG The karate school sequence. Save for the fight between Bond and the black suited expert, the whole sequence was cringe worthy.

    MR any scene with Jaws (except for the PTS)

    OP the Tarzan yell ending with Bond landing in that stream and having leeches on his chest. The Tarzan yell was so out of place in a tense sequence.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 3,566
    I think our discussion of humor in the Bond series would be well served by an examination of two characters, both used in consecutive films: both used the first time successfully and the second time unsuccessfully. Yes, my friends, I come to both praise and bury Jaws and Sheriff J.W. Pepper.

    In LALD, Sheriff Pepper has an important reason to exist. The storyline of that film has race as an inescapable element, and the villains are quite vocal in their assessment: Bond is a honky. Waste him. But for LALD to present only black racism in the world of Bond would have been totally false to the reality of race relations in the USA circa 1973…and to present James Bond as the answering face of white racism would have been even more objectionable. So Sheriff Pepper was created. He is the ludicrous face of white racism…EVERYone is “boy” to him…and he was patently absurd. The audience laughed at him, and Bond purists may have cringed at his inclusion in the film…but he defused the racial elements of the storyline quite effectively. LALD played in theatres throughout America, to audiences both white and black, and nobody took offense. No theatres were burned in the marketing of this movie, and for that you can thank Clifton James and the screenwriters who created J.W. Pepper. In LALD, his humorous purpose was used quite effectively…and if he had been left in that movie alone, he might very well be remembered with substantially greater affection.

    However, in TMWTGG, Pepper turns up out of the blue with no real reason to be there. The audience did not for a moment believe that that a fellow like Pepper would ever choose to spend a vacation in Cambodia, and his mindless disparagement of everyone and everything around him made him an unwelcome intrusion into a movie that already had too much absurd humor floating around in the mix. Pepper was one of the most poorly received elements in this, one of the most poorly received films in Bond franchise history . He was never seen again, and for that we can all be thankful.

    Jaws has a similar history. In TSWLM, he is both deadly serious and occasionally somewhat humorous. He is pretty scary at some moments, and his reactions can be quite comic at other times. His smile can be effectively chilling, and during the pyramid scenes in combat with both Bond and Anya, he seems to be very nearly a horror film creation, transplanted into the world of Bond. He seems to fit nicely into the reality created by TSWLM, and it is clear to one and all by the end of this film that the world of Moore’s Bond is very different from that of Connery’s…and yet, somehow, we’re okay with that. I think the argument can be made that the’70s was a fairly nonsensical time and that the Bond series was only following the needs of the audience at that particular point in history. How else can one explain Gerald Ford? The one thing that puzzled me about Jaws in his first appearance, is how he actually came to BE. (I wondered the same thing about Oddjob, for that matter.) He’s unnaturally strong and very nearly indestructible. How did he come to have such strength? What sort of lunatic orthodontist would fashion a set of metal teeth for a fellow like this? The question is never answered, and never even asked by anyone onscreen, and it doesn’t really matter. When Jaws is attacked by an actual shark, he somehow has earned the audience’s sympathy…and when he emerges victorious from the battle with his namesake and swims away, smiling his terrible smile, the audience cheers.

    But with MR, the Bond franchise learned a terrible lesson: sometimes giving the audience what it SAYS it wants is surrendering your decision making process to a gang of idiots. Star Wars (and science fiction in general) was immensely popular in the late ‘70s, so fine, let’s use one of the few Fleming titles left and send Bond into space. Market research tells us that Jaws was incredibly popular with the kids, let’s bring him back…and this time we’ll make him a good guy. Moonraker was the sort of film that gives the phrase “over the top” a bad reputation…and turning Jaws from a fearsome, horror movie figure into a character out of an animated cartoon was just one of the many poor choices made by Eon Productions in this film. As Jaws himself says in his only spoken line in two film appearances: “Here’s to us.”

    Here’s to you, Jaws/Richard Kiel. Here’s to you, Sheriff Pepper/Clifton James. May your tribe increase no more, and may the Bond production team forever remember that Bond stories are essentially thrillers…not Monty Python adventures. (Get thee away from here, John Cleese…)

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Excellent!
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Moore's fight scenes could be pretty funny from TSWLM onwards.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,716
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Moore's fight scenes could be pretty funny from TSWLM onwards.

    Basicly: close shot of Moore's face, cut to stuntman throwing the punch, cut back to Moore's face with a 'auuuugh' soundbit from him.

  • Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Moore's fight scenes could be pretty funny from TSWLM onwards.

    Basicly: close shot of Moore's face, cut to stuntman throwing the punch, cut back to Moore's face with a 'auuuugh' soundbit from him.

    Yep that's it.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Moore's fight scenes could be pretty funny from TSWLM onwards.

    Basicly: close shot of Moore's face, cut to stuntman throwing the punch, cut back to Moore's face with a 'auuuugh' soundbit from him.

    Moore's fight grunts sound a bit like bed grunts. ;-) Ooooh!
  • Posts: 11,189
    In AVTAK they use the same yell from him several times.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,716
    Funny to think what the Bond filmakers thought was appropriate way to film fist fights a couple of decades ago :P
  • Posts: 908
    bondsum wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    @DarthDimi. I suppose I never really cared for anything in the early 70s. I was never into Bruce Lee, saw a few Blaxploitation films at university but that was about it and never watched Charlies Angels or The Dukes of Hazard. I just can't really connect to it. That sort of era has never really appealed to me and feels too isolated to its time.

    The only films of that period I suppose I really liked were The Godfather and Get Carter. which both had nothing to do with Bond.

    I enjoyed the likes of North By Northwest (FRWL), Indiana Jones (Octopussy), True Lies (Goldeneye) and The Bourne films (Casino Royale - Skyfall). Perhaps thats why I can appreciate those Bond movies more.

    No offence, BAIN but I think you need to brush up on your 70's movies as that period produced some of the best movies in modern times. How can you not be impressed with Three Days of the Condor, The Conversation, The Parallax View, The Day of the Jackal, The Odessa File, The French Connection, to name but a few? I also didn't watch Charlies Angels in the 70's but then I wouldn't use that to define one of the most creative cinematic decades. And as for Dukes, I associate that more with the 80's than 70's.

    Really excellent recommendations. May I add "I... comme Icare "(I as in Icarus / I wie Ikarus)? Just like "The Parallax View" it does an excellent job examining the Kennedy and King assassinations.In my opinion much better than the authorities of that time. Great great films!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Okay, then, this is our last hurrah, last laugh at talking about humor in Bond films! I'll switch the topic this evening (it is early morning for me); so in about 13 or so hours. Please give us your thoughts on the humor we find in Bond films, your favorite Bond quips, the scenes you hate that are so miserably unfunny, any particularly amusing things that made you chuckle or groan (oh like watching Moore run, Anya's karate chop, the double taking guy on the beach with the wine bottle, Jinx cluelessly smirking like she owns the movie, Christmas Jones doing anything, or Valentin's best moments, etc.)

    And, I wanted to remark on your comment, @DarthDimi. You said about Timothy:
    In any case, Dalton hardly ever smiled when delivering funny lines; he spat them out, almost with contempt for the fact that society demands a man to get a little cynical in the presence of an adversary or smart in the presence of a dame. But that's what I like about his Bond. I can't help thinking that's how I should read the Fleming Bond too.
    I just want to say I like this assessment of Dalton's handling of humor. And again, I think TLD had a nice balance of humor and most of it seemed natural and fit the story well.

    All right, please chime in today with other examples of humor in Bond films!

    Cheers!
    :)>-
  • DarthDimi wrote: »
    In any case, Dalton hardly ever smiled when delivering funny lines; he spat them out, almost with contempt for the fact that society demands a man to get a little cynical in the presence of an adversary or smart in the presence of a dame. But that's what I like about his Bond. I can't help thinking that's how I should read the Fleming Bond too.

    I agree with much of your assessment here, @DarthDimi, good job! I would, however, like to point out the one time in which Dalton does take pains to deliver a joke with respect for the line itself: when he is surrendering his weapon to M at Hemmingway House, Dalton delivers the line about "A farewell to arms" with something approaching gentility and respect...before swinging into action and escaping his intended captors to continue his fight against Sanchez. It's almost as though the assumption of literacy on the part of the audience brought Dalton to an unusually positive regard for the joke in this deadly serious film.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2014 Posts: 12,480
    We are now changing our topic ... however, thoughts on humor in Bond films are definitely still welcome.
    :> :O) :-q :-j

    Let's play with the James Bond dinner for a few days. We won't need a full week for this, but let's have some fun! B-)

    A Fantasy Bond Dinner

    ~ You have a chance to invite three or four (max) characters from all the Bond films to join you for a special dinner.
    ~ Who would you invite and why? (Going for scintillating conversation, answers to Bond questions, surround yourself with Bond girls, or to provoke outright clashes?)
    ~ And let's say you can add one additional Bond character to be the waiter/server. Now who would that be?
    ~ Where would this dinner be?
    ~ What kind of cuisine?
    ~ Any particular beverages?
    | Anything else you'd care to tell us about.

    Oh, do paint us a picture of a Fantasy Bond Dinner!
    I'll start with one right off the top of my head:

    I would invite: 3 Blofelds and a Prince!
    Yes: Prince Kamal Khan (because of his ego ... and also I want him in charge of getting the special goat's head recipe to the chef); Telly Savalas's Blofeld, Donald Pleasance's Blofeld, and Charles Gray's Blofeld. I think their tremendous egos would be a volatile and interesting clash. Especially when Charles comes in drag, Telly keeps reminding everyone he had the best lair, and Donald cannot stop trashing Mike Myers.

    All served by Oddjob - who would send the food out on his flying hat, precisely timed, to each guest.

    Location: A fab ultra modern restaurant at the top of The Gherkin in London, Bond's stomping ground; with plenty of lovely ladies and gents milling around in evening garb; a small orchestra hidden away playing ... yes ... all the soundtracks to those 4 Bond character's films (DAF, OHMSS, YOLT, and OP; not a bad selection, eh?) :-bd
    (Sorry, I do not remember the correct name for that building.)
    Cuisine - Lots of spicy hot Indian curry, with the goat's head special presentation, special nan served with Jimmy Dean's sausages, rice pilaf with lots of garlic (from Lazenby's private collection), to be finished off with Turkish coffee and a certain pudding.
    Dessert- Why, a Spotted Dick pudding would do them nicely after all that spice. (And because the name just so amuses me I have to include it).
    Drink - For this explosive crew, only champagne will do. Though they do keep fighting over which brand.

    Whew! That is my Fantasy Bond Dinner #1. Who's next? I'm hungry for more!
    :D
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 1,817
    In my fantasy dinner I would invite Marc Ange Draco, Ali Kerim Bey, Milos Colombo and René Mathis. I can't imagine a more entertaining group of cowboys telling their stories about their lives in intelligence, in the army and, of course, with the girls. Those are the good fellas in Bond movies and it would be a real school for a guy.

    Following their old-fashion misogyny, perhaps Naomi would like to be our waitress.

    The location shouldn't be anything fancy, just an old and dark tavern, "Prancing Pony" style.

    The food could consist on different snacks from Spain, Italy, Greece (of course we shall have pistachios for Colombo). Perhaps a bruschette, olives, some machego and serrano. Good drinkers don't have dessert but if we must choose I'll go for some cannoli.

    There would be plenty of drinks, from beer to bourbon but not any fancy cocktail (if any one asks for a Cosmo he would be kicked out.) And give us also some cigars (perhaps some Cohiba smuggled by Draco's organisation) and many packages of cigarettes.
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