SirHenryLeeChaChing's For Original Fans - Favorite Moments In NTTD (spoilers)

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Comments

  • Controversy is fine, @Lancaster007... but I'd like to be clear on your moves. You're only actually changing LTK, FYEO, and DAF, right? You could pull Hamilton from DAF, LALD, and TMWTGG...but that would be three separate moves, giving you a total of five if we include your changes to LTK and FYEO. Can't do that, of course. So you're leaving Hamilton on LALD and TMWTGG, am I correct?
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Unfortunately yes.
    Just changing LTK, FYEO and DAF.
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 3,566
    That gives us AVTAK, DAF & LTK tied for the lead with two points each. GE, FYEO, MR, TB, TND, and TMWTGG each have 1 point. It's anybody's game at this point, folks!

    And please do feel free to comment on each others' choices...the whole point of this game is to inspire some conversation! I totally understand @Lancaster007's decision to use John Terry in LTK...but I never would have thought of it, myself! I loved seeing David Hedison back as Leiter in LTK...but then, I'm of an age that I remember Hedison fondly from TV's Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea! John Terry never made a positive impression on me until many years later, with his recurring role on Lost. I think part of the reason Leiter's maiming is so powerful is because the audience has a strong affection for Hedison that may not have been there with Terry in the same role. Your opinions on this (or any other) proposed change is welcomed...
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Ah, @Beatles, I too am of an age to fondly remember VTTBOTS, and I understand and agree with your reasoning re: Al, sorry, David Hedison. It's just that I would have liked some continuity with the actor playing Felix, it would have been nice for the same actor to play the character with a particular Bond. We had to wait till DC's tenure for that! And I think that with the meatier role in LTK, John Terry may have made more of an impression (hopefully).
    And just an agreement with CommandarRoss, the tightening up of the underwater scene hiding the Vulan would have been great - love the battle at the end so would keep that as is!
  • I personally love every moment of the underwater sequences in TB...but I recognize that I may be in the minority in that regard. Still, if I were of a mind to change something about TB, I'd do something with Paula. Really, they're on a tight deadline to locate the atomic bombs...and she's got nothing to do but lounge around the hotel room reading a magazine? If she HAD to be taken captive and written out of the picture entirely, I'd have at least had her caught while TRYING to do something useful! That whole middle section around the Junkanoo, while visually interesting, seems a little meandering to me plotwise.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Okay, I'll try to give some of my ideas of fixing a Bond film . :>

    Oh there are plenty of things I would change! Moore out of AVTAK, get rid of all the stupid humor in MR, jovial Felix gone, Connery instead of Laz in OHMSS (my other strongest yearning; Sean would have been great!!). And yes, the TB underwater scenes drag for me, @Beatles; I am one of those who think that is not a plus in the movie. Some of it yes, but it is rather too much. I am not enamored of TB, except for individual performances.

    However, I am leaving all of those alone for this exercise! The film I want to fix is: Die Another Day.

    Yes, I realize I am taking on an impossible task (harder than MR, which would be a close second) and will not be able to magically make it a 100% superlative Bond film within the rules of your game. But I have given this thought and can make some changes that would improve the film immeasurably. Notice, I am leaving Pierce alone; he was fine in DAD and with the changes I want made, he would automatically be even better. Here I go:

    DAD
    1. Jinx character replaced with Michelle Yeoh in a return performance as Wai Lin.
    2. Script rewrite! Changed to suit Wai Lin (so there goes all that insipid and cringeworthy Jinx dialog - ha!), which changes Bond's and other's dialog with her character as well.
    3. Third choice is more with the script: a change of tone of the film to be more consistent with say, along the lines of FYEO - the change of tone would fit with the aforementioned change of character, too, but would affect a whole lot more also. For example, after Bond is released after the prisoner exchange and the hospital stay (all pretty good to that point, actually) ... he does not walk sopping wet into a hotel; that kind of OTT humor is all gone. The change of tone means that the film - although allowing lighter moments, and still keeping the great Blades sword fight - does not veer into major stupid silliness. We would still have Madonna and her crap theme song; but the overall score is not terrible. We would still have hammy Toby but Bond and Wai Lin could deal with him just fine. It would be a far more balanced film. And nice for Pierce's Bond and Wai Lin to finish his era together, as partners again.

    So as much as I want all the crap CGI gone, I will not be able to specifically list that. But you can also assume that most of the heinously bad parts of DAD (and perhaps including some bad CGI) would be eliminated due to the script changes to accommodate a different tone for the whole film and the character change.

    Yes, I want so much for Pierce's final film to be a good one (he did deserve far better than what he got), I am using all my 3 choices on the dreaded DAD. It would not be perfect, but it would be a far better, and all around more enjoyable, Bond film.

    :-bd

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    @4EverBonded BRAVO!! Well done, m'lady! 100% agreed!!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I thought you'd be pleased. :D If I can change that script, I would.

    Cheers!
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 3,566
    I'm surprised nobody has tried to fix DAD until now -- maybe my intro at the beginning of this game scared everybody off! Nice choices, @4Ever...I find it interesting that the series has never brought back any leading ladies for a second time around with Bond, and I'd be perfectly happy to have seen Wei Lin again.

    DAD has now jumped into the lead with 3 huge points! AVTAK, DAF, & LTK are tied for second with 2 points each, while GE, FYEO, MR, TB, TND, and TMWTGG are all close behind with 1 point apiece! It's anybody's game still, folks -- so get your changes in as soon as you can!
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited November 2014 Posts: 5,080
    Although I am not an original, I do like to dip in here every now and then.
    For me, I would change aspects in the following films (I haven't included Die Another Day, as that would involve completely overhauling the film);

    Thunderball - I would have had perhaps completely re-shot the finale on-board the Disco Volante. The actual fight is spot on, but the sped up rear projection, for me, ruins the scene, removing any suspense or tension from what would have been an exemplary end to the film (and would perhaps knock Thunderball a spot or two up my rankings).

    You Only Live Twice - Completely get rid of the scenes involving Sean Connery dressed as a Japanese fisherman. IMO, these scenes severely damage YOLT, as it is one of those scenes where I genuinely feel myself cringing. Again, dispensing of those awful scenes would have meant that I would have held YOLT in a higher regard.

    The Man with the Golden Gun - Remove the following aspects and scenes; karate schoolgirls (anything to do with martial arts, for that matter), JW Pepper (although I do enjoy his dialogue with Goodnight via the walkie-talkie), the slide whistle (this is essential) and the scene where Lieutenant Hip leaves Bond stranded (this always bugged me). Doing so, and you have a solid Bond, IMO.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    I'd be perfectly happy to have seen Wai Lin again.

    Love to see the Wai Lin love. BTW, you *do* get her name, right? ;)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    @4Ever showing some bravery again! The thing is that indeed you'd help DAD along a lot, but for me the impossible and lazy-scriptwriting invisible car (allthough I like Cleese's introduction to it) still ruins the day. The DNA therapy isn't much help either. oh jeez I think I can go on quite a bit this way. i never understood how a film starting that tense could end up so lame. Indeed, Brosnan deserved a far better send-off.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    The car really would be gone, I think, because of the script changes and change of tone (which would do away with the car). :) DNA therapy would have to stay, though, I think.

    Yes, DAD started out great and totally went in another direction (downhill). I would be as ruthless as possible in enforcing what "change of tone" meant. :-B
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    The car really would be gone, I think, because of the script changes and change of tone (which would do away with the car). :) DNA therapy would have to stay, though, I think.

    Yes, DAD started out great and totally went in another direction (downhill). I would be as ruthless as possible in enforcing what "change of tone" meant. :-B

    Well without the car I think I could stomach the DNA therapy. With a darker tone it would be more believable at least. A daring move, as a certain Prince would say, nontheless, to take on DAD ;-)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Thank you, CommonderRoss. I felt truly compelled to try to reshape that mess of a film the best I could. For Pierce, of course. 8-> (plus my own sanity as a Bond fan!)
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Hmm, what should I do if I was Bond producer?

    Take out the “comedy” Sheriff's in DAF, LALD and AVTAK? Kung fu schoolgirls in TMWTGG, or the dread slide whistle? The copious amounts of sight gags and overt humour present in MR?


    1. Diamonds Are Forever -

    Have Tiffany Case be a consistent character, all the way through this film. The first American Bond Girl, Tiffany Case, is played with engaging charm and playfulness by Jill St. John. Tiffany starts off an intriguing, feisty character, but it soon devolves into a bimbo. It is to John's great credit, then, that a one-note character is enliven by her performance; John bring dignity to the role, where none should exist. John and Connery have a great, mischievousness chemistry together; John really deserved a better script.


    2. The Man With The Golden Gun -

    Removal of Pepper. Just have Bond steal the car from the car showrooms. If Pepper was barely tolerable in Live and Let Die, he is even worse here. He ends up in a wild car chase through the streets of Bangkok. The audience is meant to believe that Pepper was buying a car in Thailand, while on holiday, which Bond promptly hijacks. The film ends up making the cardinal sin, treating the audience like idiots - implausibility heaped on implausibility.


    3. Die Another Day -

    I can't save DAD, but I'd have the removal of the Ice dragster chase, and the ensuing tidal wave. Bond films should never have CGI in them, not even good CGI, but certainty not the PS1-graphics crap we were severed up in DAD. Just have Bond escape in his, gulp - invisible – Aston Martin. This way the film is tighter, and, as several critics pointed out, DAD has one set piece to many, hence the removal of this scene.


    Hon Mentions -

    Rewrite the script to DAD
    Deletion of Grave's Robosuit – just have him face Bond like a man
    Removal of the “Bondola” farce and Jaws flapping in PTS, in MR
    Slide whistle and kung fu schoolgirls, in GG
    Mrs Bird in LALD
    “Ape Woman” in DAF
    Deletion of Plenty's character in DAF
    Removal of the entire firetruck escape in AVTAK.
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 2,341
    I've been away, but am happy to tackle this new subject: FIX A BOND FILM

    DAF tear up the whole script and make it a serious revenge flick. Have Bond moody and mouring the loss of his bride and M decides to send him on the diamond caper mission. Eliminate Blofeld in DAF (save him for a later film). Bond tangles with the Spangled mob and their hired killers Kidd and Wint.

    TSWLM I may get slammed by @4EverBonded as this is her favorite film, but I liked the concept of the young Turks taking over SPECTRE and eliminating the old guard. The plot to destroy the Middle Eastern oil fields after hijacking two nuclear subs was a sound plot and could have been really well done.

    TWINE the showdown with Renaud should have happened earlier and then Bond would deal with Elektra (the main villain) at the climax where conflicted Bond has to killl her in order to save the world.

    DAD everyone has tried to tackle this hogwash, so I'll defer to your comments.

    MR My least favorite film. Do away with the slapstick. Take out the stupid gadgets (gondolo for starters) Make Jaws more serious and menacing like he was in TSWLM.

    TMWTGG Eliminate the solar agitator subplot horseshytt and concentrate on the duel between Bond and Scaramanga. Bond is drugged and kidnapped and taken to a jungle island where he has to run a gautlet of dangers from hunters to wild animals, climb mountains, and at the end of it all he has to face off with Scaramanga in a wild house of fun/terror.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Just wanting to comment on some of these great ideas I'm reading about this week during @Beatles game:

    Glad you are back, @OHMSS69!
    Yes, I bit the bullet (CGI or no) and tackled DAD as best as I could. I would have enjoyed some other fixes, too. You have some good ones.
    You're right, I would not change TSWLM in any way. It is grand fun. But I like your ideas for TWINE. And really, just changing the humor in MR affects about 90% of that ridiculous film! It is riddled with stupid and camp humor that does not work for me. Even first time in the theater, I could not believe the Bondola was supposed to be funny, great, exciting, or cool ... it was nothing positive! As for TMWTGG, I especially like your idea to have it turn into The Most Dangerous Game, simply Scaramanga vs. Bond like that. I personally cannot stand Nick Nack, but I know others do enjoy him.

    @royale65, I also concur with you about Tiffany. I have always like Jill St. John (and this was my first Bond film, so I wanted to be just like her!). She did start out stronger and feisty. I think she and Sean had very good chemistry. I'd love her character to be different than what we got. I'd change more than that in DAF, too. As for that lovable Southerner JW Pepper, I would not have him in TMWTGG either. LALD was plenty for me. I found him to be annoying and stupid in the extreme in TMWTGG and I remember clearly thinking, here we go giving Americans abroad a very bad name again. Ugh! By the way, I think you could have included some of your "honorable mentions" if you used a broader category for one of your changes. And everybody I know, and including Barry from what I have read, regretted that stupid slidewhistle.

    @MayDayDiVicenzo, you also have some good points. Reshooting the final fight aboard the Disco Volante would be great! I hate the speeded up filmwork there, too. For me, YOLT has several flaws but trying to turn a tall Scotsman into a Japanese fisherman is the absolute worst, you are right! Just ditch that entirely. Millions of Bond fans would be grateful.

  • Posts: 2,341
    My suggestions for DAF would be similiar to the opening of the book YOLT. Bond having gone to seed and M decides to send him on a minor mission to Japan. Instead have M send him on a minor mission to deal with the diamond smugglers. Simple.

    I stand by my comments on TSWLM. Have Blofeld on ice until this film and have the young Turks dispose of him and Irma Bunt. Of course Bond would never get his revenge (can't always get what we want) he would be there to see their bodies fished out of a canal and the film would take off from here. Morbid but it would have closed the chapter on Blofeld once and it would be final.

    TMWTGG Scaramanga would want proof that Bond was worthy to face him in his house of horrors and only after Bond navigated the jungle island and the many perils (and meet up with the Bond girl in the meantime) could he meet "the man with the golden gun".
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Maybe I could still have my TSWLM, just give it a different title, then? ;) I want to keep that one, but what you say about the different plot would be interesting! As for TMWTGG, the short story The Most Dangerous Game is one of my favorites, and it would have been very exciting to have a set up like that in a Bond film. In fact, I rather hope they still do that, even partially. I would not change Dr. No, but it sounds like it could have fit there, too.
  • Posts: 2,341
    TSWLM would still have Bond team up with a beautiful Soviet agent or a disenchanted member of the new SPECTRE will help him to foil the young Turks.

    Seeing Bond out of the casinos and tuxes in my version of TMWTGG would have been a refreshing change, like in DN. Substitute the tuxes for khakis and jungle (ala Indiana Jones) attire. Bond having to make weapons, booby traps to foil the blood thirsty hunters. then at the entrace of the fun house Scaramanga would leave a Walther PPK and be waiting for Bond inside.
    Of course such a radical change would have some fans up in arms (like LTK and OHMSS) for a film veering so far off the formula.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    This isn't an official entry, but I really wish Young had directed Goldfinger...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I'll try she of these out.
    What does that even mean?
    :))
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I think it means he was sleep walking when he posted that ... ;)
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    I'd be perfectly happy to have seen Wai Lin again.

    Love to see the Wai Lin love. BTW, you *do* get her name, right? ;)

    Um...I''m not sure what's to "get" so...maybe not. Enlighten me, please! :-/
  • Although I am not an original, I do like to dip in here every now and then.
    For me, I would change aspects in the following films (I haven't included Die Another Day, as that would involve completely overhauling the film);

    Thunderball - I would have had perhaps completely re-shot the finale on-board the Disco Volante. The actual fight is spot on, but the sped up rear projection, for me, ruins the scene, removing any suspense or tension from what would have been an exemplary end to the film (and would perhaps knock Thunderball a spot or two up my rankings).

    You Only Live Twice - Completely get rid of the scenes involving Sean Connery dressed as a Japanese fisherman. IMO, these scenes severely damage YOLT, as it is one of those scenes where I genuinely feel myself cringing. Again, dispensing of those awful scenes would have meant that I would have held YOLT in a higher regard.

    The Man with the Golden Gun - Remove the following aspects and scenes; karate schoolgirls (anything to do with martial arts, for that matter), JW Pepper (although I do enjoy his dialogue with Goodnight via the walkie-talkie), the slide whistle (this is essential) and the scene where Lieutenant Hip leaves Bond stranded (this always bugged me). Doing so, and you have a solid Bond, IMO.

    @MayDay: Thanks for fixing my own least favorite aspect of YOLT! I'm surprised it took us so long to get around to this one...
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 3,566
    royale65 wrote: »
    Hmm, what should I do if I was Bond producer?

    Take out the “comedy” Sheriff's in DAF, LALD and AVTAK? Kung fu schoolgirls in TMWTGG, or the dread slide whistle? The copious amounts of sight gags and overt humour present in MR?


    1. Diamonds Are Forever -

    Have Tiffany Case be a consistent character, all the way through this film. The first American Bond Girl, Tiffany Case, is played with engaging charm and playfulness by Jill St. John. Tiffany starts off an intriguing, feisty character, but it soon devolves into a bimbo. It is to John's great credit, then, that a one-note character is enliven by her performance; John bring dignity to the role, where none should exist. John and Connery have a great, mischievousness chemistry together; John really deserved a better script.


    2. The Man With The Golden Gun -

    Removal of Pepper. Just have Bond steal the car from the car showrooms. If Pepper was barely tolerable in Live and Let Die, he is even worse here. He ends up in a wild car chase through the streets of Bangkok. The audience is meant to believe that Pepper was buying a car in Thailand, while on holiday, which Bond promptly hijacks. The film ends up making the cardinal sin, treating the audience like idiots - implausibility heaped on implausibility.


    3. Die Another Day -

    I can't save DAD, but I'd have the removal of the Ice dragster chase, and the ensuing tidal wave. Bond films should never have CGI in them, not even good CGI, but certainty not the PS1-graphics crap we were severed up in DAD. Just have Bond escape in his, gulp - invisible – Aston Martin. This way the film is tighter, and, as several critics pointed out, DAD has one set piece to many, hence the removal of this scene.


    Hon Mentions -

    Rewrite the script to DAD
    Deletion of Grave's Robosuit – just have him face Bond like a man
    Removal of the “Bondola” farce and Jaws flapping in PTS, in MR
    Slide whistle and kung fu schoolgirls, in GG
    Mrs Bird in LALD
    “Ape Woman” in DAF
    Deletion of Plenty's character in DAF
    Removal of the entire firetruck escape in AVTAK.

    I agree that Sean & Jill have a great chemistry together ... but I also enjoy Plenty O'Toole's presence in DAF as well! "Hey, you can't do that to me...I have friends in this town!" as she's being tossed out the window of the hotel room, a moment of real suspense as she falls for several stories before landing safely in the swimming pool; followed by "I didn't know there was a pool down there!" from the gangster, just before Bond gives him the elbow. What a classic moment! Did you really want to lose that?
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 3,566
    OHMSS69 wrote: »
    I've been away, but am happy to tackle this new subject: FIX A BOND FILM

    DAF tear up the whole script and make it a serious revenge flick. Have Bond moody and mouring the loss of his bride and M decides to send him on the diamond caper mission. Eliminate Blofeld in DAF (save him for a later film). Bond tangles with the Spangled mob and their hired killers Kidd and Wint.

    TSWLM I may get slammed by @4EverBonded as this is her favorite film, but I liked the concept of the young Turks taking over SPECTRE and eliminating the old guard. The plot to destroy the Middle Eastern oil fields after hijacking two nuclear subs was a sound plot and could have been really well done.

    TWINE the showdown with Renaud should have happened earlier and then Bond would deal with Elektra (the main villain) at the climax where conflicted Bond has to killl her in order to save the world.

    DAD everyone has tried to tackle this hogwash, so I'll defer to your comments.

    MR My least favorite film. Do away with the slapstick. Take out the stupid gadgets (gondolo for starters) Make Jaws more serious and menacing like he was in TSWLM.

    TMWTGG Eliminate the solar agitator subplot horseshytt and concentrate on the duel between Bond and Scaramanga. Bond is drugged and kidnapped and taken to a jungle island where he has to run a gautlet of dangers from hunters to wild animals, climb mountains, and at the end of it all he has to face off with Scaramanga in a wild house of fun/terror.

    Thanks for your contributions, @OHMSS69, but I'm a little confused as to how to score them. According to our rules, you can only "Fix" three films, and you 've listed six! Shall I only count your first three and consider the others as Honorable Mentions? Please get back to me on this topic...
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 3,566
    Sorry for being AWOL for about a day there... lots of scoring to catch up on. Great! Let's see, leaving @OHMSS69's entry aside until I have clarity on the ranking of his contributions, that leaves us with an official score of: DAD in sole possession of the lead (for the moment) with 4; DAF and TMWTGG tied for second with 3 each; AVTAK, LTK and TB next with 2 all; and FYEO, GE, MR, TND, and YOLT all in the running with 1 point apiece. Now assuming that @OHMSS does indeed intend for his first 3 mentions to get the nod, that would put DAD, DAF and TMWTGG in a dead heat with 4 points each and add TWINE into the mix with 1 point. We're coming up to the final moments of this game as we reach the end of the week, folks...but there's still time to "get your fix in" (heh heh) so please don't be shy! This game is definitely NOT "For Originals Only"! Let's hear from you as we get down to the wire...
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    This was a great idea @BeatlesSansEarmuffs.

    - I think that I would give DAF a complete overhaul. First, I would magically convince George Lazenby to do one more film. Then I would change the script to make it more about a morose Bond seeking revenge on Blofled a la YOLT the novel. I could certainly live with Connery remaining in the film with my revised script but I think it would have been more satisfying to see George take Blofeld out.

    - I would have also changed the focus of AVTAK to make it about an aging Bond and taking on one last mission before retirement. Personally, I think it would have worked wonders. I also could have lived with recasting Dalton as Bond here (OP was the perfect exit for Moore) but since I already went that route with DAF this would be my preferred choice.

    As others have mentioned, there are countless aspects that I could change about DAD but I'm not even going to bother with that mess.
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