SirHenryLeeChaChing's For Original Fans - Favorite Moments In NTTD (spoilers)

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,838
    Then I'll eat my hat.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    There will be an entire shop of hats eaten, and I'll be taking mine (a tiny dark green beret) with chocolate sauce, please! ;)

    We shall have, I hope, full in depth cast discussion in a few days. Meanwhile, we can still talk about Blofeld now, too, as he is part of question #3. Personally, I have not any firm idea of who Blofeld is; quite unsure he is Waltz. But I would venture to say he is not Denbeigh (however it really is spelled) or Mr. White. Or Madeline Swann. I hope I am surprised by who he turns out to be, but that will be a hard secret to keep.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    I've got a hat-stand full of Fedora's to eat then!
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 3,566
    1) Like many of us, I’m of two minds on the title being simply, “SPECTRE.” On one hand, I’d have liked something with a little more embellishment. In TB the movie, Bond says to Largo while they are playing baccarat, “I thought I saw a spectre at your shoulder.” He comes close to this exchange in the novel, but not with those exact words. Still, it’s Flemingesque enough: I think “A SPECTRE at Your Shoulder” might be a more dramatic title. Nonetheless, I appreciate the fact that Eon is just coming right out and saying it: “This one’s about SPECTRE, okay? Are you satisfied now???” Yes, Eon, we’re satisfied. My answer to this question is a qualified “Yes.”

    2) I’m perfectly fine with it. Much depends on how the script handles things, of course, but I feel perfectly confident that Mendes, P&W et al. will do a good job with the material. I do want to see some sort of connection between Quantum and SPECTRE, although who is calling the shots could very well be up in the air. I could make a strong case for SPECTRE being only one facet of Quantum, but I’m sure plenty of other fans would like to see things the other way around, with Quantum being one small piece of the greater entity that is SPECTRE. Nonetheless, the fact that Jesper Christensen is involved in this film makes it perfectly obvious that Quantum will again be part of the storyline, so I’m very happy with the way things look so far.

    3) The fact that Mendes was originally planning on a two part storyline leads me to believe that we’ll see Blofeld as a shadowy presence for most of this film, who will be revealed in all his glory in the next. I don’t care if we see the iconic white cat or not, but if we do, let’s have it be in the hands of an actor who actually has some feline sympathies. Telly Savalas seemed like he couldn’t stand to touch the furry thing, and the sight of Donald Pleasance clutching onto his terrified cat (who wanted nothing more than to GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE RIGHT NOW!!! as the volcano base exploded all around them) is one of the more unpleasant moments in YOLT.

    Those are my answers to the questions as posted. I also have a few more observations to make at this time: In six of the first seven Bond films, SPECTRE (or Blofeld himself) is an active participant. It is as if nearly all evil in the world of Bond can be laid at the feet of one organization. In FRWL, as Grant is revealing the intricacies of the plot that has ensnared him, Bond’s response is “Of couse! SPECTRE!” By the time YOLT rolled around, I think Connery/Bond should have instead said, “What, SPECTRE? AGAIN??? Cubby… Harry… can’t we come up with something more original than THIS???” While I’m happy to see the Special Executive again, and I do agree that one film simply won’t be enough to do justice to all of Blofeld’s evil, I really don’t want to see the next seven films all taken up with the dastardly doings of one organization.

    In closing, I’d just like to share with you a thought that occurred to me earlier today. I posted it in a private message to our lovely moderator, and she has asked me to share it with you as well as signaling her agreement with the thoughts expressed. Here goes: One thing that I do like...looking at the Craig films as a whole...is that he didn't just "throw a switch" and become the Bond that we know and love. He started as a "stupid policeman," and GREW INTO full Bondship. Tangling with SPECTRE is just one more step in his journey, and hopefully by the end of this film he'll be fully Bond. Laughing inwardly just a little bit as he teases the villain...making out with his leading lady at the end of the film...dressing impeccably while downing his shaken not stirred martinis...essentially, making the audience feel as we did in the sixties: that a career as a "Double Naught Spy" (in the immortal words of Jethro Bodine) would be a fun and exciting job to have. Sure, this is a totally facetious position for the films to take, especially with the deadly serious impact that terrorism has on our lives today...but even Fleming acknowledged the tongue in cheek aspect of his stories, and the Cold War was no less deadly in its own time than the war on terrorism is today. I think the secret to a good Bond story is in walking the metaphorical tightrope between Roger Moore and Timothy Dalton. Connery did it instinctively (with a great deal of help from Terence Young) but then he was the first guy to do it in the first place and he certainly blazed a trail that others could only hope to follow. Lazenby never got very far out onto that voyage, and Roger correctly chose to follow his own path...Brosnan did his best but really, he was somewhat hamstrung by the studio politics that put him into the role in the first place...and now Craig has had significant box office success, but still has yet to finish a film in the arms of his leading lady. Fourth time's the charm, one hopes...

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Thanks for that, @Beatles. And here is my take on what you said (most of which I already shared with you in a PM earlier today, but a few new things thrown in, too) -

    SPECTRE - it takes Bond to another level, doesn't it? If done right. It makes sense in several ways - one of which is that it makes QOS far more coherent and meaningful. I assume it will deal with Quantum - with Jesper on board at least there will a wrap up, even if it is kept at a minimum. Having SPECTRE at the heart of this next film is more than a nod to the franchise's history or the fans, it furthers this Bond's growth like you said, and it brings a full overarching menace to all of Craig's films, which I really like. I do think that Quantum will be part of, or become, SPECTRE. I am unclear who will be Blofeld, but I do like not knowing that! At least not yet.

    When I recently read that Mendes said SPECTRE will be everything one would want in a Bond film, I was happy to hear that because to me that means we may get the things you mentioned - like giving us a more complete Bond who has the capability to enjoy life more fully in familiar ways to a longtime Bond fan (including ending up with the girl alive at the end of the film!) - and yet without over the top, stupid humor (no invisible cars, heavy CGI, Bondolas, Hinx flapping his arms trying to fly without a parachute, too punny one-liners really suitable only for Moore, etc.). I am hopeful, more than ever, that this will be a great Bond film. It does take balance.

    Skyfall was unique, patriotic, very British (which I love about it), and gave us the meaningful finish to Judi's M as well transitioning (and transforming) the new M, Q and Moneypenny, and certainly as Bond truly resurrected. I feel that Skyfall works well as a stand alone Bond film, but also is more pivotal than we may have realized at first, especially with Bond now facing his true hidden menace in SPECTRE and that being brought out also (I'm quite sure) in Bond 25. Not the same two story arc that Logan originally planned more than 2 years ago, I think. By the way, I think it was Logan's idea and not Mendes to have a two film story arc next; I believe I read that Mendes was against that. I don't think Mendes changed his mind. He went into Skyfall wanting a standalone Bond film, and it is. Although I can easily visualize SPECTRE hanging about in Bond films for several more years, I do think Mendes wants each film to be its own complete story. But as to the script for SPECTRE, I feel there have been many changes in the script since the first draft (and there always are plenty of changes; no worries about that), and in the way Mendes wants to tell Bond's story. But personally I think this is a very good thing that it did not rest on Logan's original plan. Though I have not heard details about his original thoughts for a 2 film story arc, I like him less as a writer now that I am more familiar with his writing (Penny Dreadful, anyone?). Very happy P&W and Butterworth were brought in and that Mendes seems to have a firm hand, which I hope extends to every part of this film. Now, as long as the well respected cinematographer takes his time and uses his own considerable talent wisely, and the editing gives plenty of time for locations and other shots to linger long enough for us to really savor them, and the composer ups his game a good deal to give us a Bondian score ... I will be in Bond fan heaven. Skyfall was and is one of my favorite Bond films, and now I feel like we are possibly - maybe probably - in a golden era with the next Bond film to be a great one, not just good. And here's hoping that Bond 25 is also done with quality, class, and intelligence. I could see 3 films with SPECTRE as the main nemesis for Bond - but not 5 or 7, no.

    Heaven knows it depends mightily upon the script and Mendes (and the producers to want the quality and tone to continue) for this to be truly successful and well balanced, but I do have a good feeling about Bond films these days and for the next couple of years. B-)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I think there will be a personal element, but who knows how well that will be handled? If not overblown (Bond going thru much angst yet again), then I am okay with it. I do understand your concern on that front, though.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I think there will be a personal element, but who knows how well that will be handled? If not overblown (Bond going thru much angst yet again), then I am okay with it. I do understand your concern on that front, though.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 3,236
    Side question: Do you all want SPECTRE to continue through the next Bond actor, or to end with Bond 25 (or 26, on the off chance Craig does a 6th)?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2014 Posts: 17,838
    I want them to be defeated, again & again....
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I was thinking of that earlier. :-? I have not made up my mind yet. If Craig is set for this one and 25, I could probably be okay with SPECTRE popping up again in Bond 26 ... but not for a large # of films. And Blofeld himself, I want Craig to kill him. Yes, I think I really do want that. SPECTRE could continue with a new head boss and having the the organization somehow rising up again. But I want this Bond to kill him.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited December 2014 Posts: 8,341
    As always, for the casual reader, I ain't no original, but I'll deposit my two cent's worth (which isn't much these days with the direction the Euro is taking).
    1. Happy, yes, I'm happy. Not overjoyed, but the logo is nice enough, and indeed it has that 'we're getting back to the sixties' feeling that makes for such lovely butterfly feelings.
    2. Well, it had to happen someday. Craig brought Bond back in more serious waters, which I think is great. SPECTRE is just that fine absurdist 'wow' terrorist organisation which makes Fleming's Bonds so much more intelligent then all those real life mad hats. 'The successful criminal brain is always superior, it has to be'.
    3. Yes, he should be in the film, but he should not be seen.

    For me, it feels like this: CR is Craig's Dr. No. It was far better then anyone expected and wettet appetites for more.
    QoS isn't quite as much his FRWL, as the latter is more beloved, but that was also due in time. So QoS still has that chance and I think is getting more and more love. It's a gem, but a little unpolished.
    SF is then GF, which works for me, as GF launched Bond into a phenomenon, and though SF couldn't do that anymore, it was the highest grossing film in ages and, not to nitpick and get into fights with @Suivez_ce_parachute et al, it's the biggest of them all.
    But GF isn't my favorite. Just hasn't the feeling that Bond is doing his best.

    In Thunderball however (yes, that's my nr. 1) he rocks. SPECTRE rocks, the locations rock, the music does. I'd say it's a pretty rocky film. Am I now sitting in a corner with crossed fingers? Yes I am.

    Ok, and then there's the Quantum and SPECTRE discussion.

    Well, considering the fact that Blofeld is a criminal mastermind, always covering himself up and having fallguys inbetween him and the strong hand (Dr. No, Largo) I think the setting is this:
    White is the liason between fallguy Greene and his own 'Quantum' organisation and SPECTRE. Remember White never said whom he worked for. He showed up in Greene's party, that's why Bond went after Greene. But he showed up at Le Shiffre's party as well, only telling him he'd made a mistake and that loyalty is more important for 'our organisation'. Which might just as well be SPECTRE, not the assumed Quantum.

    This, imo would be an exciting way to go and would place SPECTRE in it's rightfull menacing, deadly place it ought to be. And finishing of with the reference I made above: in DN it's SPECTRE (CR perhaps too then) in FRWL it's SPECTRE (QoS as well in my theory) in Goldfinger it's a stand alone villain (as in SF) and in Thunderball, it's SPECTRE, as is in SPECTRE.

    just the retrospect(r)ive approach.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited December 2014 Posts: 7,314
    Question #1: Are you happy that the title is SPECTRE? Why or why not.
    No, I can't say that I'm happy about it but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it either. Obviously, I will have to see the film so I can put it all into perspective but at this moment the title seems a bit generic to me. I mean, seriously, that's it? It's similar to naming the new Batman movie "The Joker". Or imagine, instead of The Empire Strikes Back, what if it had just been "The Empire"? Instead of Revenge Of The Sith, just "The Sith" or maybe even just "Sith". And so on and so forth. Now, I will say that SPECTRE certainly has a better ring to it than those particular examples but it still seems like more of an effort could have been made.

    Also, I had imagined that SPECTRE's return would have been something of a surprise reveal in the film. I have been determined to be relatively spoiler free going into this as I kind of ruined Skyfall for myself by knowing far too much. Well, this just hits us in the face with a ton of bricks now, doesn't it? I suppose it follows in the footsteps of DN, GF and TMWTGG as it is named after the antagonist. Although, in those cases it was just a person and not an organization.

    Question #2: How do you feel about SPECTRE returning in this film?
    To be honest, I'm less than thrilled about it. I think SPECTRE belongs in the past. I will be disappointed if Quantum is revealed to have been SPECTRE all along or at least some faction of it. I know they were pretty much the equivalent of a modern day SPECTRE anyway but I was curious to see where they were going with this. If it turns out that Blofeld is the man behind the Quantum curtain then I will be disappointed by their lack of originality. I will still feel like they left us hanging with the Quantum arc in favor of using their newly acquired SPECTRE rights. What if Quantum and SPECTRE were completely different organizations who are actually competing against each other? That might be interesting.

    Question #3: Do you want Blofeld in this film, or perhaps only hinted at towards the end of this one, in full glory in Bond 25? Or never again?
    You probably guessed that I'm not in favor of Blofeld returning. Again, I think he should be left in the past. With that said, I know his return is now inevitable so I would like him to be represented as he was in the novels. Check your white cat at the door please. I hope they don't succumb to thinking they have to have familiar imagery like using the DB5 in SF. I was okay with Mendes doing it once but let's not get carried away. Let's make a film that is in the spirit of the classics and not just stealing their iconic images. So.. I hope I'm not a buzzkill. I love Bond too and I want to love this film just as much as any of you.

    As for the side question, I think SPECTRE should remain dormant for a while after Craig ends his tenure.
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    My biggest fear with this writers/director team is that they will continue to tap into Bond's past, which I really don't dig, which means more of these "personal" missions, which I like even less. I am also fearful that we will get even more screen time for "Team Bond" (M, Q, Tanner and Moneypenny). Less is more with these characters, in my opinion. I don't dislike them, but I prefer to see all their appearances, involvement-wise, to be more in line with those of their '69s counterparts.

    Endless applause for this comment.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I was thinking of that earlier. :-? I have not made up my mind yet. If Craig is set for this one and 25, I could probably be okay with SPECTRE popping up again in Bond 26 ... but not for a large # of films. And Blofeld himself, I want Craig to kill him. Yes, I think I really do want that. SPECTRE could continue with a new head boss and having the the organization somehow rising up again. But I want this Bond to kill him.

    And the poor guy has not even done anything yet. ;))
  • Posts: 2,341
    1. Are you Happy with the title of SPECTRE and why or why not?

    I was just a little disappointed when I heard the title. I was hoping to see a return to the Quantum storyline and Mr. White. There were so many openings left after QoS and the questions were never fully resolved. To fall back on SPECTRE just did not do much for me. But like @Pachezo fellow original said, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.

    2. How do I feel about SPECTRE in this film?

    Like I said earlier, I would have preferred a return to Quantum. If we must bring in SPECTRE lets deal with it after Quantum is finally closed.

    3. Do I want Blofeld in this film or hinted to have him return in full glory in 25 or never again?

    I would like to see SPECTRE as the criminal organization that Fleming created in the novel TB. Blofeld was just behind the scenes and if we must see him I would prefer this approach. Someone like Max Von Sydow in NSNA. He would be a middle aged businessman type dressed in a business suit. He would give Oberhauser his marching orders and then goes into hiding when the plan is foiled.
    Or have a splinter group break off from Quantum led by Blofeld and they call themselves SPECTRE. Blofeld sets up the criminal organization and spins his web in all forms of illegal activities from white slavery, to drug and gun running, to political assassination and murder for hire.
    Please, no bald headed guy stroking a white cat. Its time to move forward and continue to look forward and not backwards. :D
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Good to wake up and see such great participation here. Thanks to all. ~O)

    And @CommanderRoss, you are exactly the kind of poster we want on this thread, even though you are not old enough to be an Original. :)

    Glad you are joining us here for this wonderful time of Bond news and tons of SPECTRE speculation, @OHMSS69. I was wondering how you felt about the title and Blofeld. I really hope they tie in Quantum in an intelligent way, and I think they will - it does not have to be long and drawn out for me, but I do want Quantum mentioned and at least briefly explained in regards to SPECTRE. There is no indication so far that they will not have a tie in to Quantum. Mr. White returning is a very good sign to me.

    You are not a buzzkill with your post, @pachazo. Thanks for giving us your thoughts on this topic. My first reaction to the title was close to yours. I'm glad I warmed up to it quickly simply because I don't want that one relatively insignificant thing (it is just the title after all) to bug me.

    There are not many things that we can all agree on (which is natural), but I do think the one thing we can all agree on 100% is that nobody wants a return of Blofeld that looks like a parody, something that belongs in Austin Powers, or even a hint of that. 8-| [-( [-X Therefore, if there is any reference to a cat in relation to Blofeld at all if had better be a quick, insignificant, slightly tongue in cheek reference and then its over. move on with the story. Or even not that much. Blofeld back, eh? Bald? No. Cat? No. Little pinky to his mouth? No. Neru collar? No. Scar a la Donald Pleasance? No. ETC. NO BLOODY NO to all that. There is no need at all to "reference" the character by bringing up past appearance or look that in any way would be the cliche or parody Blofeld. Here's hoping it is done right, is smart, and with a decent twist.

    Dear @Thunderfinger, I am so coldhearted with this one. I do want Craig's Bond to kill the slimy bastard even though we have not met him yet. Ha! But not in this film, I hope. :>
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Well I'm not an original but I'm certainly knocking on a bit and following the blaze of publicity engendering the inevitable amount of new people posting (of questionable Bondian knowledge) in other threads I prefer to post my thoughts in this thread where I know that people at least know what they are talking about.

    1. Are you happy with the title of SPECTRE and why or why not?

    In a word: seriously underwhelmed. I get the feeling in years to come we'll hear a repeat of the refrain from P (or was it W?) when SF was released that they had to think of a title by the morning and this was the best they could manage to come up with. Except for this title change the thinking time from all night to about 5 mins before the press conference.
    Unimaginative to the point where 'Bond 24' would not be much worse. Given that the film will presumably do what it says on the tin and feature SPECTRE I think there is the distinct possibility that we really shouldnt rule out the awful '007 in New York' as a future title should they end up shooting in the Big Apple one day.

    Anyway theres not much I can do about it and I suppose its largely irrelevant if the film is good and at least the teaser poster does look damn cool. Just lacks the eloquence and romance of a Fleming title for me and is it asking too much to have something a little more creative? It may grow on me. But it also may not.

    2. How do I feel about SPECTRE in this film?

    Well it was only a matter of time once they secured the rights although I am little surprised they seem to have rushed so quickly into it. Personally I think Craig has set the bar so high I think I would have held SPECTRE back and given it to his successor as it would be a nice crutch for the new guy taking over some big shoes to have the return of Blofeld to help him hit the ground running.

    But we are where we are. Objectively I cant say I'm that happy that SPECTRE is returning as it smacks of running out of ideas and just rehashing stuff. It strikes me as similar fanwankery as shoehorning in the the DB5 in GE, CR and SF.

    However switching to fanboy mode then obviously its exciting to see SPECTRE and Blofeld re-imagined for the modern day and in the serious Craig universe. However if SPECTRE are back I want them back with a bang so bollocks to Quantum and their laundering African warlord's blood money or nicking Bolivia's water supply schemes. Lets have something massively grandiose involving possible global destruction and probably some nuclear warheads.

    I want a SPECTRE board meeting, I want inventive and (given the realistic Craig tone) brutal executions of members who fail and I want a serious menace to the world - which lets be fair Quantum werent. If we're doing SPECTRE then we're in a fantasy universe so lets not make them dull and shadowy (but albeit realistic) like Quantum lets make them balls out evil.

    3. Do I want Blofeld in this film or hinted to have him return in full glory in 25 or never again?

    Given the effort taken to actually acquire SPECTRE and Blofeld then it makes no commercial sense at all to deal with both of them in one film, hence I think we can make the following deductions with reasonable certainty:

    1. Blofeld and SPECTRE will return in B25 and possibly B26.
    2. As this film features Bond only starting to uncover SPECTRE it seems rather unlikely that Blofeld will feature prominently if at all.
    3. The actor playing Blofeld if he appears in SP will also need to be signed up for B25. Will Waltz have committed to a 2 (possibly 3) picture deal? Seems unlikely, therefore I think the 'Waltz is not Blofeld' and 'Blofeld will only feature in a cameo at the end' theories are pretty sound.
    4. If Waltz is not Blofeld then no one currently revealed in the cast can be otherwise EON are short changing the fans. Waltz will hopefully be a fantastic Bond villain as he has the perfect blend of menace and slightly over the top camp. Given the right script I can see him being on a par with Wiseman, Frobe and Walken. I'd love him to be revealed as Blofeld and appear in B25 but if he turns out to be SPETCRE number 2 and Blofeld is someone else then it will be a stitch up if it is someone with a CV as mediocre as Bellucci. The actor playing Blofeld needs to be a step up in gravitas from Waltz which is going to be tough - we are into Hopkins or Day Lewis territory.

    I think the big question is - will Blofeld and SPECTRE be dealt with by the end of B25 or will they go on into B26? And if they do will Craig continue to B26 as well? If they stick to the 3 year cycle then Craig will only be 53 in 2021. I reckon he could pull it off.

    If as seems likely they are going to retcon CR and QOS to say that SPECTRE were pulling Quantum's strings all along then we get the intruiging possibility that we could have the full Blofeld arc from OHMSS and YOLT replacing Tracy with Vesper. In SP Bond can uncover SPECTRE, foil Waltz's scheme and maybe not even hear of Blofeld (we the audience would get a 2 minute cameo at the end, setting up B25), in B25 Bond can go properly toe to toe with Blofeld and discover he's the guy who runs the show and consequently is responsible for Vesper's death, in B26 for Craig's final film we can have the big showdown where Bond kills Blofeld but ends up with amnesia in Vladivostok. Then the new Bond can start off with the assassination attempt on M for B27.

    But I dont know how much planning is going into this. Certainly they just quickly thought up Quantum to replace SPECTRE as they didnt have the rights but as they turned out rather lame they ignored them for SF but then they got the SPECTRE rights. Trouble is they are now stuck with Quantum when it would tie things up much more perfectly if they could just brainwash everyone and make us all think SPECTRE were in CR and QOS all along (although would that make the title SPECTRE of Solace?).

    I certainly think that whatever they are going to do with SPECTRE now that they are back, it will be longer than one, or indeed, two films. They havent fought Mclory for so long just to wrap it all up in one film. If this is the case then they need to carefully plan how SPECTRE and Ernst will pan out over the forthcoming films not just B25 and make sure they take into account the two key events of the next 2 or 3 films: 1. The death of Blofeld & 2. Craig's retirement.

    It would be very nice to wrap everything up with Craig killing Blofeld in his final film to put a definitive full stop to his tenure. The trouble with that is it means you are starting from ground zero with a new Bond and SPECTRE dead and buried. It would be like taking over from Fergie after he has won the league and the CL - who wants to be the Moyes of Bond? It would need a very good script for anyone of any calibre to want to take on the role.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Great to have you here, Wiz. And an excellent, meaty post, too. You brought up some points we have been pondering, and I appreciate the nuances and details you just gave us. I'm pleased you think this is a thread to go to for decent discussion. It always has been, thanks to SirHenry, and we are trying to continue with the same tone.

    Re the title: I was just reading Mark O'Connell's article on SPECTRE, and he used a phrase regarding this title I like: it is a "blunt instrument" of a title. It lacks the eloquence and romance of a Fleming title like you said. It seems almost too abrupt and "modern" as in a trendy kind of " über forceful" sounding title. When I watched it being revealed as the photocall streamed live, I thought, "No ... really? REALLY? Oh brother ..." sigh. However, I have started liking it more because I twigged onto the one aspect that helped me to be able to enjoy it - just that it is so in your face and has an arrogance and sass to it, that I can appreciate a bit.

    I think SPECTRE and Blofeld returning were made inevitable as soon as Danjaq and all concerned got the rights to them. So I don't think it means they have run out of ideas ... unless they trot out a bald guy with a cat, which is not going to happen. They have just been handed a pot of potential gold. SPECTRE is a major and appealing part of Fleming's work, and I guess Fleming fans everywhere are hoping that they don't cock this up, to quote the new M. I do not believe EON and Mendes will be stupid about this portrayal. You are spot on concerning it making no sense (monetary or success) for them to have SPECTRE in only one or two films.

    Personally, I have no problem Quantum being part of SPECTRE; just get that out there and dealt with early enough on.

    I agree with you (after some thought) that Dan would not be too old for Bond 26; I think he could pull it off, for many reasons. Especially if the stories are good and lead that way, to have him finish up with Blofeld at that time. I think you bring up a good point too about his successor. If we deal with SPECTRE and finish them off with Craig, what boost will the new Bond have? Well, I do believe that SPECTRE does not have to be completed finished with Craig, but I do want Blofeld killed by Craig (I think I have stated that 3 times now in the past 24 hours!). SPECTRE could look killed off, but only dormant and come back for the next Bond to deal with.

    Walz is a very fine actor and I hope he is used wisely. The more I consider it, I think there is more than one twist coming our way; I just hope it is a great script and that Blofeld is not who we think he is at first ... but also not the doorman, or Tanner, or M for heaven's sake (other threads are rampant with far-fetched ideas, which is fun, too, at times, I suppose; but not so much here).

    Okay, I must be getting ready to leave for work now. Thanks to all - and please continue to participate in these round of questions. Non-Originals welcome, too; but the Originals' answers will be summed up separately in a few days.

    Cheers!

    :-bd
  • Posts: 2,031
    Rebooting the series presents unique challenges. If nothing in any Bond film prior to CR can serve as prologue, then the cryptic message from Bond's past cannot be from Blofeld or SPECTRE, since neither have been introduced into the rebooted series thus far. If a previous film does serve as prologue, then there cannot be a Blofeld, since he was smoked, so to speak.

    Blofeld could be revealed as someone Bond had encountered in his past or previously in the film series and now goes by a new name and identity. SPECTRE is most likely QUANTAM on steroids.

    With the slate wiped entirely clean, past Bond villains and characters could be resurrected, since, like Blofeld, they have yet to encounter Bond.


  • Posts: 2,341
    I would like to see SPECTRE dealth with in perhaps two films tops and finally close the arc once and for all. Blofeld could be a shawdowy character in the first film but in the second make him the principal villian and Bond kills him off in the finale.

    The problem with SPECTRE from the sixties (and that I do not agree with) are the OTT aspect of the organization. We have to suspend a certain amount of belief when we sit down in front of the television or at the cinema, but the organization we got in YOLT and the ones that the many imitators tried to copy just got kinda old with me. The volcano set was impressive but come on, when could something like that be built without survellance picking it up?

    The worldwide terrorism sponsored Quantum comes across as much more belivable. I just think times have so changed and SPECTRE would have to be more like the criminal organization envisioned by Fleming (and McClory). World destruction as a goal? Not in this day and time, just stick with some wild criminal stuff or major espionage plots.

    Too much reliance on Bond past is what doomed the fortieth anniversary film back in 2002. (You all see where I'm going with this?)
  • CrabKey wrote: »
    With the slate wiped entirely clean, past Bond villains and characters could be resurrected, since, like Blofeld, they have yet to encounter Bond.

    I don't think we need (or want!) to see a rebooted Dr. No, Goldfinger, etc. We can't necessarily assume that there will even BE a Blofeld in Bond 24. The title of the film is SPECTRE, after all...not BLOFELD! The most important thing, I think, is for the series to keep surprising the viewers, and if they open the door that's marked "Now We Can Redo Moonraker and Diamonds Are Forever!" it may satisfy a few fans...but I think it would doom the series to inconsequentiality with the general public.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Well said @Beatles.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Question #1: Are you happy that the title is SPECTRE? Why or why not.

    When it was revealed that B24 would be called Spectre, I was underwhelmed. Then, the more I thought about it, the more I grew to like Spectre. Granted it doesn't have the romance of an Ian Fleming title, but it's so in your face. But there's a nagging doubt that the filmmakers are going to cock it up. On the other hand, the Bond geek inside of me, is seriously freaking out ;-). Although, it seemed to be a last minute decision to name it Spectre; "everyone knows about Blofeld, so...", or is that just me? I guess one could say I'm conflicted.

    Question #2: How do you feel about SPECTRE returning in this film?

    I'm worried about the rebooted version of SPECTRE; in my head SF took place after the original 20 movies. Will they reference that, or is it just a reboot (of SPECTRE?). In this very thread, we were asked about SPECTRE, Blofeld and whether both of those should be left in the past. I said yes, it should be left in the past. My biggest fear is that we are going to see a bald headed man, with a penchant for white cats and Nehru suits.

    If SPECTRE was introduced more in line with Fleming's novels then sure, I can live with that. Still Quantum needs to be dealt with.

    Imagine this if you will, the PTS of Spectre;

    SPECTRE will usurp Quantum a'la Maibaum's first draft for TSWLM. SPECTRE goons infiltrate Quantum's bases, and kill off their leaders, with no dialogue, and sinister, ominous, restrained music. In the final scene of the PTS, Blofeld kills White with a single bullet, from a silenced gun. Main Titles.



    Question #3: Do you want Blofeld in this film, or perhaps only hinted at towards the end of this one,
    in full glory in Bond 25? Or never again?


    Personally, Blofeld has had his time. Nevertheless, I'm itching to see Fleming's Blofeld up on the scree. See, conflicted.

    I expect Blofeld to only appear in the final reel, setting us up nicely for B25.



    “A cryptic message from Bond's past sends him on a trail to uncover a sinister organisation. While M battles political forces to keep the secret service alive, Bond peels back the layers of deceit to reveal the terrible truth behind SPECTRE.”

    Judging by the synopsis to Spectre, the filmmakers have plenty of scope to produce one of the best Bond films. Certainly, with the talent, both behind and in front of the cameras, B24 should be a doozy. I'm having to check my expectations. Still, snow! It's about time for Craig's Bond to be gallivanting in the mountains. With the Austrian Alps in Spectre, it recalls OHMSS. Will that be a good thing? We'll have our answers this time next year.

    Fanwankery? Brilliant @TheWizardOfIce
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2014 Posts: 18,349
    Well I'm not an original but I'm certainly knocking on a bit and following the blaze of publicity engendering the inevitable amount of new people posting (of questionable Bondian knowledge) in other threads I prefer to post my thoughts in this thread where I know that people at least know what they are talking about.

    1. Are you happy with the title of SPECTRE and why or why not?

    In a word: seriously underwhelmed. I get the feeling in years to come we'll hear a repeat of the refrain from P (or was it W?) when SF was released that they had to think of a title by the morning and this was the best they could manage to come up with. Except for this title change the thinking time from all night to about 5 mins before the press conference.
    Unimaginative to the point where 'Bond 24' would not be much worse. Given that the film will presumably do what it says on the tin and feature SPECTRE I think there is the distinct possibility that we really shouldnt rule out the awful '007 in New York' as a future title should they end up shooting in the Big Apple one day.

    Anyway theres not much I can do about it and I suppose its largely irrelevant if the film is good and at least the teaser poster does look damn cool. Just lacks the eloquence and romance of a Fleming title for me and is it asking too much to have something a little more creative? It may grow on me. But it also may not.

    2. How do I feel about SPECTRE in this film?

    Well it was only a matter of time once they secured the rights although I am little surprised they seem to have rushed so quickly into it. Personally I think Craig has set the bar so high I think I would have held SPECTRE back and given it to his successor as it would be a nice crutch for the new guy taking over some big shoes to have the return of Blofeld to help him hit the ground running.

    But we are where we are. Objectively I cant say I'm that happy that SPECTRE is returning as it smacks of running out of ideas and just rehashing stuff. It strikes me as similar fanwankery as shoehorning in the the DB5 in GE, CR and SF.

    However switching to fanboy mode then obviously its exciting to see SPECTRE and Blofeld re-imagined for the modern day and in the serious Craig universe. However if SPECTRE are back I want them back with a bang so bollocks to Quantum and their laundering African warlord's blood money or nicking Bolivia's water supply schemes. Lets have something massively grandiose involving possible global destruction and probably some nuclear warheads.

    I want a SPECTRE board meeting, I want inventive and (given the realistic Craig tone) brutal executions of members who fail and I want a serious menace to the world - which lets be fair Quantum werent. If we're doing SPECTRE then we're in a fantasy universe so lets not make them dull and shadowy (but albeit realistic) like Quantum lets make them balls out evil.

    3. Do I want Blofeld in this film or hinted to have him return in full glory in 25 or never again?

    Given the effort taken to actually acquire SPECTRE and Blofeld then it makes no commercial sense at all to deal with both of them in one film, hence I think we can make the following deductions with reasonable certainty:

    1. Blofeld and SPECTRE will return in B25 and possibly B26.
    2. As this film features Bond only starting to uncover SPECTRE it seems rather unlikely that Blofeld will feature prominently if at all.
    3. The actor playing Blofeld if he appears in SP will also need to be signed up for B25. Will Waltz have committed to a 2 (possibly 3) picture deal? Seems unlikely, therefore I think the 'Waltz is not Blofeld' and 'Blofeld will only feature in a cameo at the end' theories are pretty sound.
    4. If Waltz is not Blofeld then no one currently revealed in the cast can be otherwise EON are short changing the fans. Waltz will hopefully be a fantastic Bond villain as he has the perfect blend of menace and slightly over the top camp. Given the right script I can see him being on a par with Wiseman, Frobe and Walken. I'd love him to be revealed as Blofeld and appear in B25 but if he turns out to be SPETCRE number 2 and Blofeld is someone else then it will be a stitch up if it is someone with a CV as mediocre as Bellucci. The actor playing Blofeld needs to be a step up in gravitas from Waltz which is going to be tough - we are into Hopkins or Day Lewis territory.

    I think the big question is - will Blofeld and SPECTRE be dealt with by the end of B25 or will they go on into B26? And if they do will Craig continue to B26 as well? If they stick to the 3 year cycle then Craig will only be 53 in 2021. I reckon he could pull it off.

    If as seems likely they are going to retcon CR and QOS to say that SPECTRE were pulling Quantum's strings all along then we get the intruiging possibility that we could have the full Blofeld arc from OHMSS and YOLT replacing Tracy with Vesper. In SP Bond can uncover SPECTRE, foil Waltz's scheme and maybe not even hear of Blofeld (we the audience would get a 2 minute cameo at the end, setting up B25), in B25 Bond can go properly toe to toe with Blofeld and discover he's the guy who runs the show and consequently is responsible for Vesper's death, in B26 for Craig's final film we can have the big showdown where Bond kills Blofeld but ends up with amnesia in Vladivostok. Then the new Bond can start off with the assassination attempt on M for B27.

    But I dont know how much planning is going into this. Certainly they just quickly thought up Quantum to replace SPECTRE as they didnt have the rights but as they turned out rather lame they ignored them for SF but then they got the SPECTRE rights. Trouble is they are now stuck with Quantum when it would tie things up much more perfectly if they could just brainwash everyone and make us all think SPECTRE were in CR and QOS all along (although would that make the title SPECTRE of Solace?).

    I certainly think that whatever they are going to do with SPECTRE now that they are back, it will be longer than one, or indeed, two films. They havent fought Mclory for so long just to wrap it all up in one film. If this is the case then they need to carefully plan how SPECTRE and Ernst will pan out over the forthcoming films not just B25 and make sure they take into account the two key events of the next 2 or 3 films: 1. The death of Blofeld & 2. Craig's retirement.

    It would be very nice to wrap everything up with Craig killing Blofeld in his final film to put a definitive full stop to his tenure. The trouble with that is it means you are starting from ground zero with a new Bond and SPECTRE dead and buried. It would be like taking over from Fergie after he has won the league and the CL - who wants to be the Moyes of Bond? It would need a very good script for anyone of any calibre to want to take on the role.

    An excellent post indeed, Wiz. You encapsulate all of the issues so well and make many great points. Great to see you back on the boards again! :)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited December 2014 Posts: 8,341
    Well with White still out there, he might just be that link of Bond's past. Or something that Vesper left him. Wasn't Austria the last place we saw White as well? Not getting up whilst the whole Quantum crew got up? I think, as he behaved far more intelligently, that he indeed is/was liason to SPECTRE for Quantum.

    If Blofeld is in the film, I certainly hoe he is that superior criminal mind.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Well with White still out there, he might just be that link of Bond's past. Or something that Vesper left him. Wasn't Austria the last place we saw White as well? Not getting up whilst the whole Quantum crew got up? I think, as he behaved far more intelligently, that he indeed is/was liason to SPECTRE for Quantum.

    I think the link from Bond's past will be Oberhauser, probably his father taught Bond to ski in his youth as written by Fleming in Octopussy. I see the story developing from there.
  • If we HAVE to see Blofeld, I'm hoping EON will get Steven Hawking...in his chair, with his mechanical voice...to play the role. Hawking was recently quoted as saying he wants to be a Bond villain, so........bring on the stainless steel delicatessen! 8-}
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,838
    I'm just hoping to see some gratuitous sex & violence...
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    I'm just hoping to see some gratuitous sex & violence...

    As are we all, my friend...

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,838
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Yet you got all prissy when I said that Bond should always screw the Bond Girl!
    Me prissy? Never.
    :P
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