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Thanks Steve. Being a musician and composer has allowed me to have a deeper understanding of a lot of little nuances in the Bond soundtracks. AVTAK is indeed a joy to listen to, but then I feel that way about all of Barry's work in general. He's the Mozart of our time and I still haven't heard a modern composer who is better, although Hungarian Miklos Rosza, a 3 time Academy winner who scored a lot of the 50's/60's biblical classics is right there with him. The modern composers of today, yes I know a lot of people may disagree, just aren't at the level of Barry and Rosza.
Thanks Royale65 as well, we are glad you have appreciated our efforts.
Anyway the stroke happened on my right side and, naturally as you can imagine, my sensations is about 75% of what it once was. While watching A View To A Kill, a couple of weeks back, “Wine With Stacey” came on the soundtrack. I was surprised to discover I had goose-bumps on all of my body, including the right side. I always loved that particular piece of music, is so emotional I find. I love it even more now.
This made me smile. Brilliant.
Newman doing the same for Let The Sky Fall could be quite something. Oh, I wish.
I'm still reading all the reviewers thoughts and I'm loving it. Please continue all.
And @royale65, thanks for sharing your experiences with us :-)
Except for the beginning few seconds, this is basically a shorter version of "Wine With Stacey". It occurs when Bond first meets her at Zorin's party.
I can't say Newman will see it better fitting to use the title song for action or romance. If he uses it at all.
@ Nic- Barry's magnificent music has always been a big part of my Bond experience from day one. It adds so much to what is happening on screen. My Dad was also a musician and I was surrounded with Bond and all kinds of various music my entire life. My mother's father was a musician and my younger brother still plays nearly every weekend back in my home county. Music is a way of life with us.
Sir Henry, and the rest, of course, what did you think about the sea-change that came with the release of DAF, the overt humour and camp aspects, I mean? The Bond's were dry and wry and self-spoofing when it came to humour, but with DAF it very nearly turned into parody. What you think, having lived through the sixties, and seeing the Bond's change, so? Was it the natural thing to be more humorous, or did it feel uncomfortable?
Personally, if I want camp and spy spoofs, I have Matt Helm, Austin Powers, etc to watch. I don't want that in Bond films. I grew up with Connery's dry one liners, and am not comfortable with winking pigeons. An occasional sight gag (I'll throw in Dalton's look when the marlin crashes through the chair as an example) is OK, but in general a Bond film should concentrate humor on honest situations and interpersonal relationships rather than try to generate scenes specifically to get cheap laughs. This was something that may have worked for some folks during the Moore era, but it never worked for me. I prefer the films 1962-1969 and the Dalton and Craig eras because the humor is never the focus, and it isn't forced upon you.
This thread isn't for me - I am a little too young, but just wanted to say thanks for that story.
When I was ten I was a very serious child, I disliked the humour which was prevalent between 71-87. Even then I thought it was infantile! :-)
With time, though, I've mellowed out somewhat, although I still draw the line at overt/sight gags/cheap humour.
Anyway this magnificent thread is about the original fans, so...
:)>-
Kudos to Barry. He lives up to his usual high standards.
Bond 4 Roger is his usual charming and fun loving tongue in cheek approach. Many would complain about his age and he himself was scandalized to learn that he was older than his leading ladies Mother! Anyway, I have no complaints. But having to do some of the stunts how much longer can audiences accept a man in his late 50's doing these things?
Women 3 Tanya Roberts is the main Bond girl and though she is great to look at (what a bod and those legs!) but her acting is subpar and her screaming is like fingernails on a charkboard. Grace Jones has an unusual appearance and is just not attractive for a Bond girl. The gal in the sub in the PTS is hot and so is Fiona Fullerton who plays a Russian spy who gets banged by Bond at the hot tub place. The score should be higher but Roberts acting and Jones appearance drags the score down.
Villains 5 This has a great gallery of rogues and possibly the best since LALD. Walken is fantastic as Zorin, his main henchwoman Jones is good and fun to watch. Beauchau as Scarpin and Dr. Mortner as well as Jenny Flex and that Asian chick are a great mismatch of bad asses. Bob Conley is a fun character I enjoyed as well.
Humor 4 Like the previous film the humor is there and may seem juvenile but I accepted it in stride. The big set piece of the chase by the SFPD in a stolen fire engine is full of sight gags but it had me going. I liked the way Bond was dangling from the ladder and kicked those cowboys' hats off. The look on their faces! The keystone kops SFPD was what we had come to expect during the Moore era.
Action 4 the movie is not short on action and they managed to get the most out of their set pieces.
Sadism 4 The scene in the PTS when Bond finds the body and sees the lockett with pictures of the late agent's wife and infant is touching. The most brutal scene is when Zorin and Scarpine shoot the workers in cold blood. This bloodbath is horrifying and disturbing. When Zorin has the KGB agent thrown into the blade....lots of blood and a horrific death.
Music 4 this is the best Barry score in a long time. The theme song, Wine with Stacey, He's dangerous and the climatic fight on the Golden gate are great stuff.
Locations 4 I give it a high mark. the scenes at the chateau, San Francisco has great scenes of Fisherman's Wharf and I had the feeling of "being there."
Gadgets 4 Not many but the ones they use do move the narrative along. Not a problem here.
Supporting Cast 4 Robert Brown is great as M, Lois Maxwell in her last appearance is great as is Patrick McNee as the sacrificial lamb Tippett.
Overall score= 40 or 4.0
AVTAK would be Roger Moore's swan song as Bond. His portrayal is hotly debated among Bond fans but to quote a writer smarter than I, "Roger Moore was as much james Bond to younger fans as much as Sean was to oldsters". Unlike Connery has last film is not marred by a tired and bored looking performance as we are treated to Moore at his true professionalism. He seemed to have had fun during his tenue and is the only former Bond actor who seems to look back on his 'Bondage' days with good humor.
Personally I liked the movie and never understood the hate that it gets on many threads and posts. AVTAK has its flaws but it was not the worst Bond picture, not by a long shot. I rank it third among Moore's films (behind OP and FYEO)
After twelve years and 7 films Roger Moore made the character his own. It took him to the third outing to find himself but once he did he seemed to enjoy the hell out of himself.
My hat is off to Sir Roger.
Jason, we have members here who saw the films even in their original releases. I was 7 in 1968 when my father took me to see Thunderball. I've seen every one on the big screen before they aired on TV or were released on home mediums. You'll find the right people you seek right here, no need to create another thread.
One thing I will tell you...although I completely understand why one would be a Connery purist, you'll find that every one of us will never throw in the cinema towel as you call it. It's a way of life for me since I was little and I know my fellow originals would agree. To me, the truest of Bond fans goes to every new release and doesn't pick and choose because they may not like the current Bond of the time. We leave that to the "Craig Not Bond " crew because we know they're not the real deal- but we know he is. You mention DAF and later Moore. My question is how do you say DAF or that abortion NSNA are worth watching but not Moore, Dalton, Brosnan, or Craig who have all produced series classics? Sir Sean was awful in his last two films, a shell of what he once was in every way. He didn't do those films because he respected Cubby and Harry and the series, quite the opposite. And I wouldn't expect me to praise a half baked remake of TB written by a man whose goal in life was the very destruction of my beloved franchise.
No matter who Bond may be- BOND UNTIL DEATH.
I guess you don't realize the story with McGlory as I like to call him, so I'll try to sum that up before I get to your "Moore goes Bollywood" statement. Yes, Fleming did wrong and started it all off by not giving McGlory and Jack Whittingham their proper credit for their involvement in co-writing Thunderball and thus the characters. They went to court, McGlory won and got his judgement and that should have been the end of it. Now, for years afterward until 1971 they used the Blofeld character and he said nothing. Then in 1976 he hears they want to resurrect him and SPECTRE for Spy and he files an injunction. Why? Did his TB earnings run dry along with the rest of any creativity he had? Probably. In 1981 they gave us an unnamed bald guy with a Nehru jacket and white cat, of course it was Blofeld but they can't use his name. Now we get into 1982-1983. He sells essentially the Thunderball plot and the characters to Columbia (Basinger is called by her original last name of Petacchi which EON changed to Derval to match Auger's French background, and Fatima Blush replaces Fiona Volpe) with some minor alterations he claimed were what he originally wanted and didn't get, and then conspires with them to get Connery back and conveniently run the film against Moore and Octopussy that summer. You don't do that if you just want to make money, you run it at another time when you're more likely to get everyone. You do that however to call attention to yourselves and try to keep people from going to see Moore and a brand new adventure. Even up to his death McGlory was pushing yet ANOTHER TB remake he called "Warhead 2000" and get this, was trying to get Dalton to return as Bond. I'm sure he would have pushed that against whatever Brosnan film was coming out if he could have, thankfully by the time CR came out he was dead or close to that date. In summation, if McGlory was quite the talent he liked to think he was, he would have had other successful projects past trying to ride on EON's coattails.
Now, I have to wonder if you feel any movie who films in India is Bollywood drivel? Just because Octopussy filmed in India, a brand new location for a Bond film, doesn't mean it was a Bollywood film. Yes, they unfortunately revisit MR-like sound and sight gags here, but unlike MR there is actually a plausible plot with much better women and villains. And FYEO to me is far from a lame 1970's effort and if you've seen the film you should know that. It was a Cold War thriller that could have easily been a great Connery 1960's film. No, Moore isn't my favorite, I hold Connery, Dalton, and Craig in higher esteem but Sir Roger did have some very good films like FYEO and LALD (and some would add Spy to that) and to be quite frank here, he saved the series in 1973 with a popular debut and again in 1983 from McGlory, Connery, and Columbia. As a fan, I owe him my profound thanks because if people didn't like him, we probably don't have Bond or if we do we have a bunch far more half-assed than BB and MGW running the show.
The old adage 'If it ain't broke don't mend it' certainly springs to mind with AVTAK, where director John Glen, writers Michael Wilson and Richard Maibaum, producer Cubby Broccoli and star Roger Moore carefully re-tread old ground in an attempt to surprise no one and deliver a good old Bond by numbers.
Borrowing a short story title from Ian Fleming (well almost) and building a plotline around San Francisco's silicon valley, AVTAK sounds, on paper, to be quite the forward thinking Bond movie. The fact that it isn't anything of the kind is one of the series' major disappointments.
The plot, involving horse doping, Nazi experimentation and a plan to flood Silicon Valley is mildly diverting, and gives Bond plenty of chance to do some real spy work (its very late in the day before he finally uncovers exactly what is going on).
BOND:
It’s hard to look much beyond Roger Moore’s aging as James Bond. Any attempt at analysis simply flounders. Moore’s performance is never less than decent in the film, but belief has to be suspended from somewhere towards the top of the Eiffel Tower in order to accept that this aging, slightly portly gentleman with terrible eye makeup is the same person who sprints magnificently across the drawbridge to Zorin’s fortress or chases MayDay through Paris. 3/5
WOMEN:
Stacey Sutton, the beautiful blonde with a vendetta against the villain (don’t they all have) played by sweet, vulnerable Tanya Roberts (say, what?…), Zorin’s assistant Jenny Flex, Russian spy Pola Ivanova who is an old squeeze of Bond’s. She didn’t think Bond knew she was KGB(‘Why do you think I bought you a dozen RED roses?’ enquires Bond). And May Day the butch sidekick to Zorin who can lift grown men off the ground.
It isn’t exactly a classic line up of gorgeous girls. Sutton is a little too brash, May day a little too androgynous. Pola who serves as an entertaining diversion from the main plot comes across quite well, but overall it’s a fairly pedestrian collection of girls 3/5
VILLAINS:
Max Zorin is the bonkers villain who turns out to be an experiment that went somewhat wrong. His great idea to flood Silicon Valley in San Francisco is a plan somewhat reminiscent of Goldfinger’s (he even disposes of one of his backers in a fashion similar to Goldfinger).
Dr Mortner the Nazi professor who ‘created’ him.
May Day mentioned above is his accomplice, and the single most memorable shot of the entire film goes to her as, near the end of the movie, she triumphantly stares at Zorin, her revenge complete, and her fate sealed. It's a smart and nicely directed moment, even if the actual explosion which follows is a bit under- cooked.
And Scarpine who is Zorin’s trusty right hand man.
Again, the film ticks boxes, but Christopher Walken adds much needed charisma to the proceedings and his performance as the insane Zorin was quite inspired back in1985. After the big talking villainy of previous outings, Zorin’s quiet reflecting and disturbing giggle was quite refreshing. 4/5
HUMOUR:
Those blessed site gags (Bond crashes through a riverboat into the middle of a wedding ceremony, the fight involving a priceless vase, the fire engine chase) are present and correct, plus Moore is at his most smarmy and downright annoying during Zorin’s garden party.
We watch the film lurch from one gorgeously photographed location to another - witness the pre-credit sequence where the viewer almost suffers snow blindness such is the sharpness and clarity of the photography.
We endure a bunch of fair to middling action sequences.
We count the wrinkles on Roger's face
And finally we get what we really want. A lively, funny, interesting scene. Bond and Fiona Fullerton have great fun in their few minutes together, as the plot takes a break to allow Bond a happy bit of cavorting in a Jacuzzi with an old squeeze. It's a cat and mouse game that doesn't last long, but its a little gem that would probably look more at home in Octopussy. 2/5
ACTION:
Some terrific stunt work around the Eiffel Tower and in the pre title sequence. The climax in the mine is powerful and quite shocking (Moore has said it was these scenes that made him decide to end his 007 days), and the final scenes on the Golden gate Bridge are very good.
Somewhere in there though there are some fight sequences that are probably the worst in the series. Moore and Tibbett fighting and somehow beating two of Zorin’s goons defies belief and one can only watch it and wish for the days of Bond v Grant on the Orient Express.
Then at Stacey’s home where we have the comedy fight with another bunch of second rate heavies.
And talking of comedy scenes, the horse race reminds me of Harpo Marx’s scenes at the end of A Day At The Races. Worse still the fire engine pursuit which is the same as Abbott & Costello’s similar scenes in one of their 40s comedies with Roger Moore replacing Lou Costello, swinging from a loose ladder with cries of ‘D’OOOOOOH’.
Seriously for all the good stuff on view these idle, badly conceived and executed ‘action’ scenes simply dampen the whole experience.
Further damage done by the lazy and poor use of stunt doubles for Moore.
2/5
SADISM:
Yum, Zorin simply doesn’t let us down. From feeding a man into the rotating blades of a massive fan, to his poker faced execution of the mineworkers Zorin’s sadism is one of the film’s best features 4/5
MUSIC:
Well I was never a fan of Duran Duran and was actually disappointed with their theme song, despite the fact it was a shrewd move on the part of Eon to capitalise on one of the bands of the decade. However I do enjoy the use of the theme during the film as romantic mood music. Otherwise nothing about the score jumps out at me. 3/5
LOCATIONS :
Siberia, Ascot, Paris, San Francisco. Plenty of fine locations used and used well. SF gets the full treatment and no tourist spot goes un ticked. The Eiffel Tower gets the full treatment as well. Nicely and lovingly photographed 4/5
GADGETS:
Bond has a camera in his ring and a submarine that looks like an iceberg. Q however seems to have plenty of fun with his robot. Meh 2/5
SUPPORTING CAST:
M, Q , Moneypenny, Gogol, Minister of Defence. Tick tick tick tick tick.
But we also have Aubergine, a French detective who reminds me of a stupid Hercule Poirot, CIA agent Lee and Sir Godfrey Tibbett who assists Bond in his mission. All three are bumped off by Zorin and his team as are other minor characters. Tibbett (Avengers star Patrick Macnee) is entertaining even though his doesn’t appear to be much older than Bond. 3/5
OVERALL SCORE AND RECOLLECTIONS 30/50
It all seemed a little flat to me when I saw it at the cinema. The last film had been exciting and entertaining, but AVTAK flopped along like a big tasteless pancake, the action was never thrilling enough, and the rest of the film never having enough style or colour to come to life.
Slightly better than TMWTGG and MR for different reasons but the worst bits of AVTAK were probably a little too reminiscent of those films for comfort.
However Christopher Walken was terrific, the locations were splendid and the action set pieces that did work were perfectly acceptable.
Both theaters at the cinema where I saw OP, while Dad and my brother (his shadow) went to see NSNA, were packed. Keep in mind that OP won the battle of the box office by $27.5 million dollars, so it's obvious which film was better received in the long run.
In what ways do you find the OP plot to be confusing? No one else has ever complained about that. It's got a little bit of deception to it but should be very understandable by the conclusion if you're paying attention. We'll be happy to enlighten you.
I've read and own the entire Fleming Bond collection and mention both of these stories in my preview, which you might want to read. POAL is still a possibility as a title, but over the years we've seen that very few of Fleming's works have been faithfully adapted. This is Hollywood and novels are commonly altered to some degree, YOLT and Spy are virtually unrecognizable film versus novel. Giant octopuses just aren't any more compelling than Dr. No drowning in bat s**t. Can you imagine that in place of dissolving in his own nuclear reactor? I sure can't.
Hey guys! Do we need a referee to seperate you two? Jason welcome aboard.
We're doing AVTAK so I suggest you watch it and then we'd love to read your comments.
For both of you to set the record straight: "At the hands of a giant octopus" huh? what ? Really???
THERE WAS NO GIANT OCTOPUS IN THE STORY. The embezzler simply stuck his hand in the fish tank and let the tiny octopus give him a fatal bite. Just saying...
The novel DN has a giant squid in it however...
By the way, it should go without saying that Jason is welcomed. On my part, just having a friendly debate.
1. Goldfinger- 4.23
2. From Russia With Love- 4.20
3. Thunderball- 4.10
4. The Spy Who Loved Me- 4.05
5. On Her Majesty's Secret Service (5/6 reviews)- 3.96
6. You Only Live Twice- 3.92
7. For Your Eyes Only- 3.90
8. Live And Let Die- 3.83
9. Octopussy (5/6 reviews)- 3.82
10. Dr. No- 3.62
11. The Man With The Golden Gun- 3.13
12. Diamonds Are Forever (5/6 reviews)- 3.02
13. Moonraker- 2.97
If you look at the prior rankings, you'll noticed things have changed quite a bit. I finally received a note from DB5, who felt that the Moore era was not to his liking and thus he has elected to no longer participate in reviews. As I've mentioned ad nauseum, I need a consistent amount of steady reviewers, so we are now down to 6. His scores were removed and the ratings recalculated, and this is what the "serious six" have come up with as a collective poll to date. Naturally Nic's coming reviews for OHMSS and DAF can and likely will affect their current places. Always remember that your personal ratings are what they are. Once we've completed all 22 films (we'll do Skyfall in time of course), we can discuss the results versus our personal ratings and have fun comparing them.
As usual, below is a list of who hasn't reviewed a particular film, so you know which ones you have done and which you haven't. Also, please try to review your prior scores for different categories for the sake of consistency. If anyone is going away or has decided to drop out, kindly let me know. If a 7th original reading this is interested in doing all the films, please let myself or Nic know. You don't have to go into great detail if time is your concern, just give a score by category and a brief explanation if that is all you can do.
OHMSS, DAF- Nic is working on those.
OCTOPUSSY- No votes from 4EverBonded.
A VIEW TO A KILL- No votes from Lancaster, Kerim, or 4EverBonded.
We've only had 3 out of 6 votes on AVTAK but I'm sure they are coming over the next few days, so next time out we'll see where it stacks up. So far it's between Dr.No and TMWTGG, in case anyone was curious.
Tomorrow I will review and release the fifteenth entry, the first of two films from the Dalton era, "The Living Daylights". It's no secret to anyone that I am a huge fan of these two films, and I'm really looking forward to hearing if your thoughts match my own. Thanks again to everyone who's hung in there and contributed, as always I truly appreciate your participation and look forward to lots of great reading! Have a great Bond Day and weekend!
A View To A Kill
BOND- 3. And most of that goes to Roger's stunt doubles who seem to be quite visible throughout the film. A case of two films too many, he just about got away with it in Octopussy but really pushing it here, and I blame Cubby for that. He really should have seen it was time for a new actor. Best bits here are Sir Roger and Patrick Macnee sparking off each other, otherwise a tired Moore taking another pay cheque.
WOMEN- 3. Apart from the gorgeous Stacey (who is rather annoying with her screaming 'James' and just being mostly useless - great body and lovely legs though, so easy on the eye), a mixed bag of women, nothing special, and I don't consider MayDay a Bond girl, just a villain. And we could have done without MayDay 'taking care' of Bond. shudder.
VILLAINS- 4. Chris Walken is the saving grace for this film, always one of my favourite actors he is perfect as the genius psychopath. MayDay makes a good female henchman, mainly because she is so scary in real life!
HUMOR- 2. Some okay humour, best of which again is the exchanges between Bond and Tibbett.
ACTION- 3. Plenty of action, but just not very well executed, how many times do you find yourself saying 'that's a double' while watching this film? The best of the action is the mine shaft flooding at the end.
SADISM- 3. Zorin happily machine gunning his workforce, killing the mayor and setting fire to city hall, and trapping Stacy so she can scream her head off is pretty sadistic! One of the best bits, "Anyone else like to drop out?" though is a direct take from Goldfinger's 'pressing engagement'.
MUSIC- 4. Another Barry classic (though better was to come with a change of Bond), which has some nice cues and of course a very popular theme tune (not really a fan of Durran Durran) which gave the boys a big hit and the chance for Simon to say "the name's Bon, Simon le Bon" in the music video.
LOCATIONS- 3. Actually fairly ordinary locations, Paris is used to good effect with MayDay's jump, and a great PTS, spoilt by the use of California Girls - up to then it had some tension and thrills, yes we all laughed in the cinema, but it just showed that things just were being taken seriously.
GADGETS- 2. Fairly mundane and forgettable handful of gadgets, worst being the snooper which in the end of the film makes Q out to be a bit of perve, felt really uncomfortable and embarrassed watching this.
SUPPORTING CAST- 3. MayDay makes a good villainess, and Sir Godfrey Tibbett is a good foil for Bond, their scenes are among the best. Most people would agree that Sir Roger is way past it, and so is Lois Maxwell, thankfully her last. Time for a change. The rest of the support just so-so, even Q is below par in this very poor effort.
OVERALL SCORE AND RECOLLECTIONS- 30 or 3.0 When I saw this in the cinema, I went with my friend who originally got me into Bond, his GF and a female friend from school. And I came out feeling embarrassed by the whole thing. Would our hero ever be taken seriously again? Would we ever have a film along the lines of FRWL? At least this had Chris Walken in it, but very little else to recommend it. We even had a return to Hamilton's crazy car chase cops who wreck every car they have. Oh so tired. On the plus side, if you watch the Inside A View To A Kill on the DVD/Blu-ray my home town of Salcombe gets a mention, that was pretty awesome!
From A View To A Kill is a great little story from which they only used part of the title, not only were the producers running out of Fleming titles it looked like they were running out of ideas, what next for Bond?