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SirHenryLeeChaChing's For Original Fans - Favorite Moments In NTTD (spoilers)

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  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    The media fuss that we have now when a Bond song is due has come about simply because John Barry inadvertently set the bar so very high back in the 60s and 70s. He wrote timeless classics like Goldfinger, We have All The Time In The World and You Only Live Twice. And even when Barry didn't do it, Eon brought in song writers at the peak of their powers (Hamlisch, McCartney), and the legend continued to build.

    By the 80s it was becoming quite a big thing to be asked to contribute a Bond song, and often we have seen capable artists freeze in the head lights (Madonna is the best example), almost as if the responsibility stripped them of their abilities.

    Now we have situations where Eon are approaching artists who are singers and or rock stars first and song writers second. And while Adele and Sam Smith are good singers and capable song writers they are being given the impossible task of matching the great output of John Barry. It's prestigious for them of course, and a sure fire hit song, but the recent dumming down of the music industry thanks in no small part to the X Factor culture of instant celebrity means we are happy to accept good Bond songs at the expense of great ones. Because todays young generation have not lived through the times when great songs were being churned out every day of every year.

    Sam Smith has written a lovely, melodic song which will probably infiltrate the soundtrack of Spectre really nicely, and many will think it a great addition to the Bond song cannon. Yet, in reality it is merely adequate and no more. Simply because John Barry polished off a string of great Bond songs, probably whilst wearing his pyjamas and before his first cup of Earl Grey.
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Just every so often I wish this site had a like button if it had I would of used it on that last post of yours @NicNac .
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Well, as Ive been one of the longest standing waiters in this thread, as non-original allowed to vent my thoughts, I was thinking of what @SirHenry may have thougt.
    He was a musician, who'd recognise quality even if he didn't really care for the music himself. I think he'd have thought the orchestration interesting, recognising quality. But also a lack of power (which he loved, IRC). Sam can indeed sing. The question is: do you appreciate his voice?
    Now that's something only @SirHenry could've answered.

    For me this song isn't really doing anything. I like the intro, but it peters out to nothingness. I'm not very fond of Sam's singing nor his songs. He's popular I understand, he is a good singer (No Jack White), but where Adele had the dramatic power all blasted through the speakers in Skyfall, Sam's song seems to doodle away. I listened to it twice, noticing the second time that it just couldn't keep my attention.
    It probably works well in elevators.

    Anyway, I'll just keep it as a fact that the song is here and hope it will work with the title sequence. The DC films have been good at that. I loved CR's titles and YKMN as a song, same goes for Skyfall. And I dispised both the 'Shouting and Screaming is not Enoug' or whatever the 'song' is called and the desolate,nightmarish titles of QoS. I may have disliked the last, they did fit well together.....

    bumping this to the new page ... :)

    @CommanderRoss, I agree with you. I also miss SirHenry's input as a seasoned musician. I do think the song "dwindles away" as you say. But in the theater it should be okay, at least not so obviously mediocre because it will not be on its own. It will have all the fab opening titles happening along with it, and I do hope Newman adds some more orchestration (that is now my recurring hope) for this song in the actual film.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited September 2015 Posts: 12,480
    NicNac wrote: »
    The media fuss that we have now when a Bond song is due has come about simply because John Barry inadvertently set the bar so very high back in the 60s and 70s. He wrote timeless classics like Goldfinger, We have All The Time In The World and You Only Live Twice. And even when Barry didn't do it, Eon brought in song writers at the peak of their powers (Hamlisch, McCartney), and the legend continued to build.

    By the 80s it was becoming quite a big thing to be asked to contribute a Bond song, and often we have seen capable artists freeze in the head lights (Madonna is the best example), almost as if the responsibility stripped them of their abilities.

    Now we have situations where Eon are approaching artists who are singers and or rock stars first and song writers second. And while Adele and Sam Smith are good singers and capable song writers they are being given the impossible task of matching the great output of John Barry. It's prestigious for them of course, and a sure fire hit song, but the recent dumming down of the music industry thanks in no small part to the X Factor culture of instant celebrity means we are happy to accept good Bond songs at the expense of great ones. Because todays young generation have not lived through the times when great songs were being churned out every day of every year.

    Sam Smith has written a lovely, melodic song which will probably infiltrate the soundtrack of Spectre really nicely, and many will think it a great addition to the Bond song cannon. Yet, in reality it is merely adequate and no more. Simply because John Barry polished off a string of great Bond songs, probably whilst wearing his pyjamas and before his first cup of Earl Grey.

    @Mrcoggins, I too want a 'like' button at times. :) So here is NicNac's comment bumped to this page, too.

    Nic, you made some very good points. Especially your opening statement that "The media fuss that we have now when a Bond song is due has come about simply because John Barry inadvertently set the bar so very high back in the 60s and 70s."
    Truer words were never spoken. Spot on. :-bd

    Yet I am really open to different kinds of songs. Just give me some good music, with enough appropriate Bondian influence.

    Sam's song is not so horrendous that it deserves the extreme criticisms I am reading. It is not as awful as DAD or AWTD. It is simply disappointing. It could have been wonderful and special; it is not.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,248
    Well I'm afraid it's always full good or awfully bad these days. Nothing in between is ever heard, and it isn't fashionable to weigh the pro's and con's and be mildly positive or negative. That's why I'm also looking foreward to the Original's views. They tend to be more balanced.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Indeed. The only members I listen to are the originals. Because they have - what's the word I'm looking for? - yes, common sense! They've been around don't you know.... ;-)
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Well it certainly has caused a lot of discussion - here and in other threads. Have to say I don't like Sam Smith, and had a feeling of disappointment when he was announced. but I thought that maybe by some good fortune he could give us a decent Bond theme. Ah, but my first thoughts have been proved right (for me) and we have a very weak tune that I find myself tuning out from. Really would have liked an instrumental a la OHMSS and this dross over the closing titles as we all leave the theatre!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Thanks, @Lancaster007, @royale65, and @CommanderRoss. We are pretty much in agreement, in general, on the title song. I do respect eveyrone's opinion as their own personal taste. @RC7, for example, genuinely likes the song very much from what I've read on the title song thread. Music is such a personal taste, like any art - you either enjoy something or you don't. I'd like to still hear from a few more Originals, even for a brief comment, if they can make the time to stop by here ... @Birdleson, @delfloria, @CrabKey, @OHMSS69, @Kerim, @BeatlesSansEarmuffs, @chrisisall, and all other Originals who have not yet weighed in here regarding the SPECTRE title song, Writings On The Wall. Again, we also welcome nonOriginals' thoughts here.

    I also want to turn my thoughts now to the opening titles sequence. Any thoughts about this?

    I am sure it will be interesting and vivid, imaginative. I have a good feeling about that because Kleinman is awesome. I trust him. I'm hoping it will not be as dark as Skyfall's (though Skyfall's was totally appropriate for the film) ... and it will undoubtedly have danger in it ... indeed possibly the 'spectre' of Blofeld. ;) No, I do not know if the character named Blofeld will actually be in this film. And I don't want to know - I want whatever the story is to unfold pretty much unspoiled for me. But this film being called SPECTRE leads to all kinds of wonderful things for the opening titles sequence. With Mexico City's colorful pageantry set, I expect that to be part of the opening titles, too.

    It is getting tough to go into any thread these days. But I'm hanging for a little while longer. ;) Please chime in with you thoughts - thanks! I'm off to work soon, but will check back later.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Well, I just listened to the full song, and I think it's great. Not quite as bouncy as YKMN, but really soulful. I heartily approve.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Thanks, @chrisisall! :) I think, no matter how mediocre I feel it is, it will be so much better sitting in the theater listening to it as everything unfolds. Thanks for joining us here. I like to have more for a better consensus, and you are an Original. Cheers! B-)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    Thanks, @chrisisall! :) I think, no matter how mediocre I feel it is,
    There are parts that sound a bit mediocre, bur I feel the song works really well because of his voice (at times he sounds so female, which is a good thing IMO), and the tiny licks of a Bondian sound... I actually like YNMN & SF a bit better (but this may grow a lot on me after seeing the movie).
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2015 Posts: 12,480
    @Birdleson, I am with you for the most part. Sam's song - for me, is generally lacking, including the lyrics. The lyrics are not great. Some people say oh it is just so meaningful because of the story. Okay then. However, I don't think a great Bond song needs great lyrics, but certainly when they are good it adds more to the whole experience.

    I also don't think the song needs to portray Bond as yearning (because of the voice it feels very like teenager in love struggle), lovesick, wrangling with his torn heart and what to do. Even when Bond's personal feelings are felt in a film - and I think Daniel Craig is a very good Bond indeed and portrays Bond's feelings very well - the song does not need to go overboard in conveying this. And it does feel quite overdone, for my tastes. I will get criticized by others who love this song for simply saying that it does not sound like James Bond - but I feel that is a valid thing for me to say. This song does not sound like the James Bond I know and have enjoyed thru all the Fleming stories and various actors who have portrayed the character. It doesn't fit Bond. Not for me.

    I do think my opinion of it will lessen only to the extent that it will be submerged in the film and I will still be able to enjoy the opening title sequence, no problem. The melody (which is not memorable when listening to just the song) will fit into the score nicely, though.

    However, your enjoyment of Die Another Day surpasses what I am capable of ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    ugh.

    However, your enjoyment of Die Another Day surpasses what I am capable of ;)
    Surprise! I REALLY like DAD! But then, I grew up with Madonna, and Crazy For You was our wedding song.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    My bottom 10 end list of Bond theme song/title songs, as it stands today:

    From Russia With Love
    Goldeneye
    Thunderball
    All Time High
    License to Kill
    The Living Daylights
    The Man With The Golden Gun
    Writings on the Wall
    Another Way to Die
    Die Another Day
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2015 Posts: 12,480
    @chrisisall, I like some of Madonna's songs just fine. She is capable of writing a much better song, even for Bond. No, I just don't like that one. But I have no problem with her voice or her being chosen to do the song.

    Usually Die Another Day and Another Way To Die fight it out to be the very bottom of my list.

    I didn't say "ugh" though .... :|

    In fact, I still love "Ray of Light" very much.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789

    From Russia With Love (crap)
    Goldeneye (loved it)
    Thunderball (crap)
    All Time High (mega-crap)
    License to Kill (passable)
    The Living Daylights (loved it)
    The Man With The Golden Gun (Really loved it)
    Writings on the Wall (okay)
    Another Way to Die (crap)
    Die Another Day (loved it)

    Musical tastes are SO subjective, eh?

    ;)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2015 Posts: 12,480
    They are subjective of course. And lists are just lists for personal speculation. My list is fine for me. I'd like to see your bottom 10 or bottom 5, @chrisisall. We can do a list without making this an acrimonious thing. Just out of interest to see where people (who are involved with this thread; especially Originals) are at in terms of their personal enjoyment of Bond title songs ... in this case, their personal displeasure. ;)

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2015 Posts: 12,480
    So there it is - a minor distraction, folks - just give us your bottom 5 (or 10) Bond theme/title songs. (Think I'll stick with calling it a theme song.) This is not meant to cause arguments or trying to win people over to seeing things your way. Music is so personal - and that is fine.

    It would simply be interesting to see which Bond songs are at the bottom for people's enjoyment.

    All are welcome to participate nicely on this, if you'd like.

    The Bond Theme Songs you like the least (5 to 10)
    :)>-
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    They are subjective of course. And lists are just lists for personal speculation. My list is fine for me. I'd like to see your bottom 10 or bottom 5, @chrisisall. We can do a list without making this an acrimonious thing. Just out of interest to see where people (who are involved with this thread; especially Originals) are at in terms of their personal enjoyment of Bond title songs ... in this case, their personal displeasure. ;)

    My bad in order of release:
    FRWL
    TB
    FYEO
    ATH
    AWTD
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2015 Posts: 12,480
    'in order of release' - meaning not one of these is truly listed as your worst ...? Just one big lump of disappointment, some more than others at times? I can understand that; just want to make sure I understand your list correctly, @chrisisall. :)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    @chrisisall, I think "Thunderball" is a cheesefest - not great, it's low on my list, but it works. ;) Very much of its time. Tom's voice is so strong. Still is, bless him. I did not see it in the theater during its first run, but I bet it went over great with the audience at that time.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited October 2015 Posts: 17,789
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    'in order of release' - meaning not one of these is truly listed as your worst ...?
    In order of bad to worse it would be:
    AWTD
    TB
    FRWL
    FYEO
    ATH
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited October 2015 Posts: 17,789
    Birdleson wrote: »

    This is really bad. Really really bad:

    24. NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN

    I like the song a lot better than the film.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2015 Posts: 12,480
    @chrisisall, I don't remember the song for NSNA. Probably thankful for that.

    @Birdleson, you gave so many categories! And nicely descriptive ones. I like the "exists without offending me" and "Dull Crap"

    My list was just ... meh to pretty awful to crap. ;)

    @Birdleson, "Thunderball" to me is classic early Bond, but still to me rather ... silly. :)
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    edited October 2015 Posts: 1,874
    Thunderball maybe a bit of 'silly' song, but it's the way it's sung. Awesome. Should have brought back Sir Tom for SPECTRE.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2015 Posts: 12,480
    Oh "Thunderball" is classic early Bond all the way, @Lancaster007. The lyrics are a bit silly, sure. The best thing about it is Tom's voice. The man has still got it, too!

    I do think Sam's song will be perfectly passable for the film ... and really might lend itself well to be throughout the score a bit. On its own, just middle of the road rather not memorable. But I don't hate it and it shouldn't be a negative for the whole opening experience. The opening bit is Bondian, sure. But almost like they threw us a bone ...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    But almost like they threw us a bone ...
    Yeah, I get that too...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2015 Posts: 12,480
    Not to say I don't like the intro! I do. :) So it shall progress okay, I think. A few more of those touches would help. I have not listened to covers of Sam's song yet but I just read a young woman did a fine one.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Sofia Karlberg ...


    So I guess I won't be popping into the title song thread anymore .. sigh. I did not read any spoilers but just saw on recent page someone saying that other people were posting spoilers. So I am not risking that any further! Mainly this thread and waiting to read 2nd part of @Kerim's interview - so looking forward to that. :-bd
  • CrabKeyCrabKey
    Posts: 1,974
    As an original who was completely taken in by DN, I was absolutely set back on my heels by the blaring, pounding intro of FRWL. GF and TB went even bigger. In the RN era, LALD captures that feel, and of course CR. I don't dislike the new song, but it feels like an extension of SF. Dreary, moody. Please, please, please. Please let there be some powerful music inside SPECTRE. Christ, I miss the old days.
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