SirHenryLeeChaChing's For Original Fans - Favorite Moments In NTTD (spoilers)

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  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Thanks, @CrabKey - I appreciate you stopping by here to give us your thoughts. You are an appreciated Original here. I understand what you mean. I don't hate Sam's song either. Just rather bland & I would prefer it sung differently. The refrain may well fit into the score in a good way; I'm hopeful for that. So I do get what you mean. And your last sentence sounds exactly like it comes from a Fleming novel (and, come to think of it, was given such perfect nuance, with slightly different wording, by Judi D's M).

    The heady and exciting world of James Bond, one that has built up over these many years, is still palpable and real for those of us who have journeyed with Bond for several decades. We know times are different now, but we remember ... and how lucky we were, we Originals.

    I think that all of those earlier films that set the template, exploded Bond globally, and stamped Bond into our culture in so many ways - let's say Dr. No through Moore's era - carry a certain weight for Original fans that simply cannot be exactly replicated for anyone who did not grow up in the sixties or early seventies. We experienced the Bond phenomena as it first happened ... so fresh, different, huge, exciting, and glamorous! Indeed some of us remember more vividly the sixties when Bondmania was at its height. I caught fire with Diamonds Are Forever and never looked back. But others here definitely started before me.

    To go see a Bond film and hear the theme song for the first time during that first viewing of the film, in a huge darkened theater, is a sublime experience. I clearly remember the hairs on my neck practically standing on end, literally, over Shirley Bassey singing "Diamonds Are Forever" amidst the glorious opening titles ... how that song built and swirled and the final words just soared! Glorious song, sung seductively then powerfully by the perfect singer, and also a great score by John Barry. =D>

    In today's world, it is truly just about impossible to NOT hear the theme song before you see the film in the theater. Because it is everywhere ... more than Quantum or SPECTRE could hope make it so. So that also means that now we do not hear the song for the first time in its fullest, best audio experience (not in the theater; just on radio or computer, etc.) :-< I accept that is the way it is. But I do remember what it felt like in years past ... good memories; a more visceral and fascinating experience that was. Those were the days, indeed.

    As I've stated before, I don't mind hearing the theme song first before a released Bond film now because it helps me be excited for the film, builds the mood, and can be fun. I don't mind because it is inevitable and I choose to make it be enjoyable: hearing the song before the film. But if I had a choice, I would go back to not hearing the song at all until that moment when the film starts. And also to not know major plot points or even every location shot, let alone more info. But I accept that is not to be (though I have, miraculously, remained mostly spoiler-free).

    It is a different world now, Commander Bond. Believe me, I still love the adventure, the thrill, the intrigue and the elegance. You are still a unique character, and by now you feel like part of my DNA. I'm more than happy to go along for whatever ride you give us, dear James. Because you are one I have loved - in novels, stories, and film - for more than 40 years now. You don't disappoint. Perhaps a theme song, or particular aspects of certain films, may let me down a bit at times. But at the core, you never do.

    Roll on, SPECTRE ~ B-)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2015 Posts: 12,480
    Oh, what the heck, here you go :)>-

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Additionally, just to say I did enjoy Sofia's version of Sam's song (above) better than his version. (Though I know it is supposed to be Bond saying the words and the singer should, therefore, be a man.)
  • Posts: 4,611
    New to this thread (51 so should be OK), the old Bonds were like Christmas day, all your presents opening at the same time. There is no doubt in my mind that the drip feed of info produced by the PR machine does have a negative impact regarding watching the movie for the first time. The trend will never be reversed so that just makes the early movies even more special.
  • My apologies for not having contributed to the discussion of the new theme song yet. With the crush of other obligations, I wasn’t even aware that it had been released until late Sunday afternoon! Then I tried -- in vain -- to find Sam Smith’s version of the song being played on the radio. Surprise! I can’t! Nor is it available (so far as I can tell) anywhere online without subscribing to a service that I simply don’t care to utilize. YouTube has dozens of cover versions available for viewing already…but not Sam Smith’s original version. If anybody can provide me with a link to Smith's version of this song other than one that leads me to Spotify…or better yet, name me a radio station anywhere in the San Francisco Bay area that has the song on its play list, I’ll be happy to give it a listen…but failing that, I’ll just wait until the film opens and I can experience it along with the rest of the movie…and maybe that’s actually for the best in an artistic sense.

    So I have not yet heard “The Writing‘s on the Wall” …but hey, this is the internet, which means I have every right to express my opinion even if I have absolutely no idea what I’m talking about! ;)) And the opinion I’ve formed is this: if part of the point of hiring a Name singer to produce a Bond theme song is to promote the film in question by piquing the audience’s interest in that film when they hear the theme song a month or so in advance of the movie’s release…then as far as I’m concerned, “TWotW” has failed, big time. If I don’t hear the song on the radio in my car on the way to work, how am I going to get excited about seeing the upcoming movie it’s supposed to be promoting? Regardless of whether or not the lyrics express a point of view that we fans feel accurately represents the character of James Bond…regardless of whether or not the singer’s voice fits our opinion of what a Bond theme should sound like, regardless of whether or not the composition sounds like something John Barry would have offered us were he still around and conducting… if marketing decisions narrow the availability of this song to those who are willing to seek it out and pay for the privilege of hearing it in advance of the release of the film itself…then as far as I’m concerned, speaking as someone whose first awareness of the very name of “Goldfinger” came from Shirley Bassey’s voice issuing forth from someone else’s transistor radio as we passed on the street, trumpets blaring and golden words pouring in your ear… we are losing something remarkable, something precious, something that made the Bond phenomenon very special indeed. And what are we left with? The writing’s on the wall…
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2015 Posts: 12,480
    Welcome, @patb! I think you've been on this forum for a couple of years now; it's nice of you to join us. Please feel free to comment on any of our topics. Yes, I agree with you about the PR machine now. and about how in many years past the Bond films felt like Christmas when they arrived. A new Bond film was very special. All the more highly anticipated because it was so fresh - we did not know much about it at all until we paid our ticket and sat down in that theater seat to watch it for the first time. A new Bond film is still exciting and highly anticipated, of course ... but that special powerful zest of excitement, the unique anticipation of having the film unfolding in the theater first, that special thrill ... has left us. As lifelong Bond fans we are still along for the ride; we just have memories of some things that were even more enjoyable or splendid, part of Bond film history.

    We do welcome comments from nonOriginals of course, as well as Originals. And it's great to have older fans here as part of our core group. Definitely. :)

    I think you are well aware of SirHenry, patb - but let me take a moment to just clarify our thread for other people who may be newer to the forum. With SPECTRE looming (so many punny ways to phrase things these days thanks to the title!), we will be getting many more brand new members, too. Please bear with me as I again explain this thread's origin and purpose:

    This thread is named SirHenryLeeChaChing'sForOriginalFans because it was started by one of the best Bond fans ever, and a really great guy, SirHenry (the sorely missed Greg Ferrell, who passed away in Jan 2013). He wanted this thread to be a special place for older "originals" to hang out, chat, and give their thoughts on Bond. He did the rankings for all films using only Originals' scores, so it did give us a way to look at one group of Bond fans (the oldest ones) to see where our thoughts agreed or disagreed, our opinions on anything about Bond. He wanted this to be a special place for older fans, but also welcomed input from all members as long as their comments were relevant, respectful, did NOT contain spoilers, and were thoughtful. So no bashing, no spam, etc. :)>-

    Meaty discussions ensued, friendships forged, and the thread became a very valuable source of information on Bond. I think that is a true statement, not just my opinion. For me personally, during SirHenry's time, this thread became golden. A wonderful resource - also filled with humor and real camaraderie. If you look back from the beginning and well before page 100, you will find tons of factual information that SirHenry culled and gave us on each Bond film, plus a huge variety of topics discussed. :>

    An Original Fan, by SirHenry's definition, is someone who saw their first Bond film in a theater during its initial run and that Bond in that film was played by Sean Connery. So that right there gives a specific boundary on who would be an official Original. But let me hasten to add, that criteria is there only because when we do rankings on anything, any type of scoring, only the Originals' ranking or score would count. So there could be a consensus of that particular age group. All along the way, however, we definitely want other members to join us in discussion. Anything we discuss, all members are welcome here to join us as long as they realize their scores would not count towards the total. And, also important, as long as they brought some relevant and respectful comments here. Humor a definite plus, too.

    More thoughts now on the title song, score, and of course the upcoming trailer (due in about 6 more hours I think) ... anything SPECTRE! Just no spoilers at all, please - not even in spoiler tags. I'll ask a mod to remove them if that happens. But let's do talk - there is plenty to think over and discuss here. And this film will soon be here before we know it! Almost in the blink of a white cat's green eyes ... ;)

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2015 Posts: 12,480
    @BeatlesSansEarmuffs - hi, welcome home. :) I know you've been incredibly busy. Hope all your endeavors went very well. And I hope you had some fun, too.

    What you say about the song is interesting. I've just listened to the link playing Sam's song, sung by him, about 14 times now. There may be different versions (someone kindly mentioned an instrumental version, which I would probably like more). I gave us a link here to one cover and it is nicer. BUT I was assuming the song was also being played on the radio. I am in Asia, away from all other countries radio stations. :-\"
    So I have no idea. I'd love someone to tell us. Like as soon as possible, please.

    I found that link, to hear Sam singing his song, on the thread with Writings On The Wall in its title. But I do not want to go in there again ... so I'm asking for assistance to get the correct link here, please. Then @Beatles and other folks here may listen to it, if they choose to click on that link. Can someone please post Sam's version here on this thread for me? Without giving any spoilers or background info or anything, just post it, please? I'd genuinely appreciate that.

    Since I am avoiding nearly all threads and cannot really even tiptoe into the thread on this particular song anymore (because people very recently are commenting on there about others deliberately spoiling things for them, in that thread!) ... I need assistance to find out when the song will be released in full, regular radio play. Someone on this forum knows that - I don't. There is a date for the release of the score, too; but I do not remember that either.

    So I have to throw this open now - Can somebody answer us, please:

    1) When is Writings on the Wall going to be played on the radio, regular air play? In the U.S. and U.K. especially.

    and

    2) When is the score available to purchase?


    And if someone could post Sam's version, here, thanks very much for your help with that, too.

    Thanks to all. Cheers! :-bd
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,248
    Additionally, just to say I did enjoy Sofia's version of Sam's song (above) better than his version. (Though I know it is supposed to be Bond saying the words and the singer should, therefore, be a man.)

    I fully agree that her version is better, and disagree on the 'it's a man's thought so it should be sung by a man'. We don't expect a narrator of a film, i.e. to be the same sex as the main character either do we. Sam Smith, as a man, is hardly James Bond material, in so many ways I can't begin to count. That isn't bad, it just means he neither is 'Bond'while he sings the lyrics. Which means it doesn't really matter who sings it in the first place.

    I've been pondering the 'worst' Bond-song list for quite some time and I feel rather falling short, as I have a couple I like less, but can't really put in order. Basically there's only one 'song'I find so appaling it sure as hell takes the nr. one spot, and that is AWTD. It's so terrible even the pope must have sweared when he first heard it.

    there are more I'm not very keen on, All Time High, Moonraker, TMGG. But they still work in their respective ways. Even Madonna's song works for the title sequence (but what Freud has to do with it I can't fathom).

    So I'm afraid I can only count to one...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    @CommanderRoss - it's fine you only have one you consider crap! The only ones I dislike intently are DAD and AWTD. Others vary in "meh"ness. :) But I appreciate you giving us your thoughts on the theme songs.

    And folks, here is the final SPECTRE trailer, for on our thread, too:




    I frickin' LOVE this!!!!!!! So excited about this film! Please feel free to discuss your first impresions and thoughts of the trailer here.

    (unfortunately I am tied up with work all day, special event at my school, so I will be offline for about another 10 hours probably). Enjoy! :-bd
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Also would love it if someone could answer our questions about when Sam's song will be on radio play in U.S. and U.K. Thanks! :)>-
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited October 2015 Posts: 4,423
    It's been on the radio for about a week here in the UK. Here's a youtube thingy -




    Edit - the new trailer. Lots of new footage for us to get our teeth stuck into. Although I guess some wags will complain about the apparent use of CGI - the bit where the wall collapsed etc. Still, looking forward to Spectre, even if the final trailer did not treat us to John Barry and his theme from Majesty's. The month of Spectre is upon us. The countdown now starts in earnest.

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,248
    Birdleson wrote: »
    After immersing myself pre-SKYFALL, I really thought I could resist watching the trailers with this one. Of course I watched each one over 40 times as soon as they were available. I do think it will lead to lessened first experience i n the theatre. Next time, I guess.

    I was wondering about that too. I'm very excited for what I see, but at the same time I wonder if they haven't shown too much of th film allready, with such different trailers. Still, that helicopter stunt is one I really look foreward to. Didn't quite know the Bo105 could do a barrel roll. Should've known, they've been extensively used as military recce aircraft, but still it looks phenomenal.
  • Posts: 1,859
    Have not been over here in a while. Yes, it was a whole different experience growing up with the 60's Bond films when they truly defined the world's pop culture. Excellent post 4ever about the early Bond's and now. Different time, different expectations. I also think that the new theme would have been served better in the hands of a woman's voice, as heard in several cover versions now. BTW it could be from Swan's POV, after all she does know her way around guns and may also "never shoot to miss". Being an early Bond fan what always bothers me is the huge teaser sequences, starting with TWINE that always throw the films out of balance and rob the climax of a bit of their potential power.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2015 Posts: 12,480
    @royale65, thanks very much for the info on radio play in the UK & the link. :) Hopefully, @BeatlesSansEarmuffs will give a listen soon. It's #1 on a couple of charts now (I don't rate music charts as counting so much these days; not like they really used to count, for people buying records - there's a good topic for discussion!). Like it or not, it is good publicity for the film. :)>-

    And thanks very much for your thoughts, @delfloria. I know you started even before me with Bond in the theaters - you experienced the full on Bondmania of the sixties. It was such a different experience in so many ways. The world was just not instantly globally connected then, nor was access to info on films so overwhelming. But Bond's influence on culture was huge.

    Trailers - I am with you, @delfloria, @CommanderRoss, and @Birdleson regarding teaser trailers showing too much. I do think the final trailer is exciting, yes, @royale65. I did not mind the CGI there and if the film is good (and done mostly with real stunts, which is what I've read!) people should not pick that scene apart. For most films trailers can contain too many spoilers; that is true - for many years now. As a lifelong Bond fan, I want to see the trailer ... yet every time, I am a bit anxious before I press "play" because I don't want huge climatic scenes shown. I have not been strong enough to avoid the trailers, though. For SPECTRE trailers, it has not spoiled much for me. And I was okay with Skyfall's too. But they are not perfect in that regard, no. If I wanted to stay far more unaware I would have been off the forum last Dec. after the title was revealed and certainly after the Sony leaked script. But I am rolling along, doing the best I can. I only watch the trailers 2 or 3 times each, no more. That probably helps me stay fresher for the film when I do finally see it. Good there was not any specific music in this trailer and no huge spoilers (note: if I did not pick up on something, please do NOT tell me!) ;)

    @delfloria, your thoughts on that it could be sung by a woman from Madeline's point of view are interesting. I have listened to only one cover (Sofia's, which I posted) and I definitely preferred the song as sung by her. But it's been stated (by Sam S., too) that it is from Bond's perspective. And @CommanderRoss, I note you also think it could be sung by a woman without that being problematic. I wish ... but:

    Anyway, there is no turning back now! And SPECTRE will be in your theaters soon (alas, not mine).

    Other Originals and all other members, too, please give us your thoughts (with no spoilers) about the trailer, Sam's song, your least favorite Bond theme songs (any or all), and any thoughts you'd like to discuss about SPECTRE. We are near the crest of the rollercoaster now, folks! :D
  • Posts: 1,859
    Personally, I thought that there was nothing wrong with any of the CGI in the trailer. Of course there will be shots that we know have been done with CG because our experience and brains tell us that there are shots that could not be accomplished any other way. I think it is unfair for people to complain about these kind of shots as being overly CGI when CGI IS the only way they can be achieved. If a shot is at fault it is usually the director or producers at fault for going over the top as opposed to the CGI itself.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes, I agree, @delfloria. I have no problem at all with judicious use of good CGI. If the storytelling is great, and it is well done, it should fit pretty seamlessly and not take away from the moment.
  • Posts: 1,859
    Birdleson wrote: »
    CGI used as cosmetic touch-up does not bother me. What does bothers me is when it is used in lieu of the great sets and thrilling stunts that are such a hallmark and point of pride of this storied franchise (ala DIE ANOTHER DAY). I also don't like when it betrays itself by going places that cameras cannot actually go, such as when Bond and Mitchell fall through the glass roof of the atrium or whatever it is. That looks ridiculous.

    As far as a female singing WRITING'S ON THE WALL, I don't think it would be appropriate. This is one of only two Bond Title Songs (along with YOU KNOW MY NAME ) that represent Bond's "voice".

    Then I really have a problem with Sam's version.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    As do more than a few of us, @delfloria. I don't out and out hate it, but it is quite disappointing as a theme song. Sam's take on it, his voice, was actually a bit ... jarring; though I was getting over that feeling by the 12th time I listened to it. I've stated often enough my thoughts on it and that I hope the score makes up for it.

    Still happy to hear from others, too. :)
  • Posts: 1,859
    I find it interesting that still after all these years once the trailers start getting released the adrenalin gets pumping and the anticipation for the new Bond film sets in. I'm amazed that there is still that Pavlovian response. In my minds eye I can see myself sitting down for the first time in the theater and waiting for MY next Bond film to unfold and hoping for the best. Now, though some fans feel it is not important anymore, I have found that without the gun barrel and theme at the beginning the latest films take a while to get into, because just like Never Say Never Again, my hard wired brain keeps telling me it's not a REAL Bond film without it. One of the downsides of growing up in the 60's.
  • Posts: 1,859
    Is it my imagination or do a lot of Bond fans today treat the other spy films and series as competitors to Bond and shun them? In the 60's and 70's all my friends who were fans of Bond treated each new spy film and series with open arms and enjoyed them for what they were right along with Bond. Solo, Flint, Helm, Kuryakin, Drake, Smart, Eurospies, West, Gordon, Sinclair, Wilde, Rule, Palmer, Scott, Robinson, Peel, Steed and many others were welcome additions to the genre and embraced. Now there seems to be a different kind of attitude about spy films. Am I imagining this?
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Hmmm, good question. I grew up in the 90's. I treat other spy films from that era as competition to my beloved Bond series. I tried the Mission Impossible films - at least the first two anyway - but I found them deathly boring. I quite enjoyed the first Bourne movie, but the other two just seem to be repeating the same trick. My two friends loved the Triple X films when it came out, saying that they were much better than the Bond films, as I quote "they were old and stuffy" and "not hip and cool and badass". So perhaps that explains my recalcitrance to experience other spy films.

    I love the Avengers T.V series tho!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2015 Posts: 12,480
    Yes, @delfloria, I think there are plenty of people who look at other spy films as competition to Bond these days. It seems to be discussed as such. I never did - simply because to me none can compare. So I enjoy other ones, too, but Bond is always in a different, higher league for me. A league of one, so to speak. ;) I prefer the gun barrel at the beginning because it is a classic start to a Bond film; just perfect. Yet it does not bother me greatly any more. Still hope it happens, though.

    Just saw the new music video - and that is an improvement! Thankfully, the song is less grating with the film footage added. Very nice scenes indeed - there seems to be great chemistry between Bond and his women; and the cinematography is a dream com true! Very, very happy with what I have seen of the cinematography. So Sam's song won't be so annoying to me, wrapped up in the film opening titles sequence or as used in the score a bit. Everything else surrounding it will be the stronger factor and that is a huge help. I still feel it definitely should have been sung in a lower key - and I would probably still prefer it sung by a woman (meaning lyrics changed) - but at least it was not so annoying or obviously weak. It is a rather bland song, listened to on its own. I think the refrain will help; it is the only good part of the song for me and can easily feature in the score. I get they wanted a romantic song; I only wish it were a stronger melody throughout and sung differently. But it is good news indeed that the song is far better with the cinematography added. What a relief!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Here is Sam's song, Writing's on the Wall, new music video:

    It does contain brief scenes from the film - so if you do NOT want to see any footage from SPECTRE, then please do not watch this.

    I did not feel it contained enough spoilers to really spoil anything, that is why I am putting it here. But it does show parts of scenes.

  • Posts: 1,859
    I love that last shot of Bond. Very intense.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2015 Posts: 12,480
    I like all the shots in the video, @delfloria - they are rather perfectly framed, great shading, tone, etc. The final shot is great because it is intense, yes. I like seeing both the women's reactions to Bond. I am so glad Lea and Monica were cast in this! The cinematography looks to be outstanding, doesn't it? I was thrilled with Roger Deakins' work in Skyfall, and I am now confident I will be also totally enamored with Hoyte van Hoytema's work. I doubt the song will ever to get the point for me to say I really like it a lot. It is not great, but it will be serviceable thanks to everything else.

    Just watched it again and finally watched Sam more at the end ... and he does appear to have some tears on his cheeks as he finishes.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2015 Posts: 12,480
    putting the new video for "Writing's on the Wall" here, too ~
    (Again, I do not think it contains real spoilers, but it does show scenes from the film - so if you do not want to see any scenes from SPECTRE, please do not watch this)

  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    patb wrote: »
    New to this thread (51 so should be OK), the old Bonds were like Christmas day, all your presents opening at the same time. There is no doubt in my mind that the drip feed of info produced by the PR machine does have a negative impact regarding watching the movie for the first time. The trend will never be reversed so that just makes the early movies even more special.

    Agree. It was really great going to see the film without much prior knowledge. Most of it gleaned of the fantastic posters (another negative these days) outside. And then after the film checking the poster again picking out details from the film - this was especially true of DAF, LALD and TMWTGG, not great films (although I thought so then!) but great posters.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    The posters really were fantastic! I love Live & Let Die, @Birdleson. And the song rocks, too. That was quite a departure wasn't, that song? Brave choice and it really paid off.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,248
    I have a feeling the song in themusic video is more extensively orchestrated then the version we heard at first. Or is that just me?

    I was hoewever dissapointed there were so many scens from the film in it (I saw it before I got here), now wondering if I haven't seen too much allready. I won't watch it again nor any trailers. It opens the 29th here, so that should be doable.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    No, it is not just you - I think the orchestration comes in stronger later in the song than it did in the first version we heard. I thought that, too, @CommanderRoss. And that does help.

    Seeing scenes beforehand is such a personal reaction, of course. I don't feel it has been spoiled for me. I think they were a bit restrained, actually and could have really blown it. But I won't be seeing the film until Dec. 6th and I won't be watching the trailers many times before then. I hope you feel it is fresh enough when you see it in the theater.
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