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But let's be a little patient with each other. This is subjective, no way around that. We are using our own perception of what we feel is a "classic" film. There is no set black and white criteria available for us to rely on. So my idea of a classic Bond film can differ from my friends' list. That doesn't bother me. I was assuming many would include OHMSS; I could not. But that's okay. It is interesting to see if there is a core of Bond films we do agree on that are classic, but I did not think our lists would match exactly.
Exactly. We can consider that every film that was nominated is a classic -- or we can draw the line somewhere. But one way or another, there's really nothing substantial gained or lost to anyone by inclusion in our little list of Classic Bond films. My arbitrary choice of 3 nominations to warrant inclusion on the list was only intended to spur discussion, as this thread had been dormant for about a week. Mission accomplished! If @birdleson and @chrisisall feel strongly that YOLT belongs on the classics list, well, it occurs to me that SirHenry himself was a big fan of this film and we can surely consider that a 3rd vote -- so YOLT could qualify in that fashion. Maybe we want every film nominated to be considered classic. Or maybe we want to note that there have been 14 films nominated and 24 Bond films released in total at this point. Do we really think more than half of the Bond films currently in existence deserve to be considered classics?
For my own opinion, awhile back I listed several reasons both for and against YOLT receiving classic status. The tie-breaker for me is that this is the first film in the series to diverge seriously from the Fleming canon -- and as a Fleming fan, I have a hard time ignoring that. Part of the reason that I personally voted for FYEO's inclusion as a classic is because I really appreciate the skillful manner in which portions of 3 different Fleming stories are blended together to make one seamless tale. But your mileage may vary, and that's perfectly okay. The one thing I think important to consider is that age is no guarantee of classic status. I think very few of us would argue that Casino Royale is not a classic, even though it was released in this brave new century!
Enjoy this in its entirety for tons of facts, SirHenry's keen eye for all the elements in a Bond film. :) I remembered his love of the music & Mie Hama, in particular. ;)
This review is found on page 6 of this thread. Go back to those early pages, skip around, enjoy the reviews. They are well worth reading.
Scoring was 1 to 5 (5 being highest) And the bolding at the end is mine, not SirHenry's
SirHenryLeeChaChing
July 2012 edited September 2012 Posts:
YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE (1967)
"Welcome to Japan, Mr. Bond"
The year is 1966. After the phenomenal success of the prior two films, Cubby Broccoli and Harry Saltzman plan to film "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" as the next in the series, until problems with a warm Swiss winter and the resulting inadequate snow cover did not leave Saltzman and Broccoli enough time to find the locations they felt they needed to film. Instead, they elect to produce the 11th book in the series, entitled "You Only Live Twice". Released in 1964, shortly before the death of Ian Fleming, the original story is based on Bond's revenge for the murder of his wife, Tracy, at the end of the his prior novel, 1963's "On Her Majesty's Secret Service". Welsh screenwriter Roald Dahl is hired to do the screen treatment and calling the book a "plotless travelogue", basically discards Fleming's sequel and commences to write a different story. Dahl makes some use of the novel's characters but in the film version, Bond fakes his high profile murder in Hong Kong and is secretly dispatched to Japan by M after American and Soviet manned spacecraft are mysteriously made to disappear in orbit by an unknown craft, which the British suspect is landing in or near Japan. With both the Americans and Soviets threatening to go to nuclear war with the other, Bond works with with the Japanese secret service and their "M", Tiger Tanaka, in order to find the perpetrators and comes to suspect that SPECTRE is once again involved. SPECTRE is working on behalf of and at the same time extorting the government of a powerful unspecified Asian power, implied to be Red China, in order to provoke war between the superpowers. While racing to stop this diabolical plot and save the world from nuclear holocaust, Bond finally comes face to face with the enigmatic head of SPECTRE, Ernst Stavro Blofeld, inside his spectacular hideout within a dormant Japanese volcano.
In addition to the massive rewrite, filming was also plagued by unrelenting press coverage, plus the stunning announcement by the disgruntled Sean Connery that he intended to retire from the role. After the producers were able to come to terms with his issues and get him on board for the movie, principal filming began in Japan in July 1966 under the direction of Lewis Gilbert. Other locations used more briefly were Hong Kong and Norway, while back in England production designer Ken Adam was overseeing the construction of Blofeld's volcano hideout, a set that cost the entire budget of Dr. No. Filming wrapped in March 1967 and the movie was released on June 13th 1967, the first Bond film to have a summer premiere. The movie would be the first not to exceed the previous gross of the prior release, but it still went on to earn $111 million worldwide and was generally lauded by fans and critics alike at the time as a solid and successful entry in the series.
THE CAST-
Sean Connery as James Bond
Akiko Wakabayashi as Aki
Mie Hama as Kissy Suzuki
Donald Pleasence as Ernst Stavro Blofeld
Tetsurō Tamba as Tiger Tanaka.
Teru Shimada as Mr. Osato
Karin Dor as Helga Brandt
Charles Gray as Dikko Henderson
Bernard Lee as M
Lois Maxwell as Miss Moneypenny
Desmond Llewelyn as Q
Ronald Rich as Hans
Tsai Chin as Ling
BOND- People critical of Connery's performance in this one state that he looks "bored". Perhaps the fact that he was leaving the role had something to do with this sentiment. But when I compare him here to his final official appearance in 1971, I have to mildly disagree. To me, if anything he goes back towards his superspy Goldfinger persona, more unflappable and seemingly more in control. I think it IS obvious though that the Dahl material isn't nearly as good compared to what he had to work with before, and it does show- 3.5/5
WOMEN- Two Japanese, one Chinese, a first for Bond. Main Bond girl Aki is played by Akiko Wakabayashi. She's a competent agent and does a nice job with her English and portrayal. The girl Bond winds up with, Kissy Suzuki, is played by the more renowned Mie Hama, who was known as the "Brigitte Bardot" of Japan for her effect on Japanese men. The Kissy role unfortunately has a lot less meat on the bone and as Hama's English was poor, it's probably just as well. Still, to this day I don't think I've ever seen a woman (short of my daughter of course) as beautiful as Hama in my life and she remains my choice for best looking woman in the series. Rounding things out is Tsai Chin as Bond's Hong Kong contact Ling, who gives him "very best duck" amongst other things, and finally a gaggle of assorted women in non-speaking roles who are supposed to be Japanese and obviously are badly not. Not bad overall, but not the strongest contingent by any means- 3/5
VILLAINS- After much teasing the head of SPECTRE, Ernst Stavro Blofeld, is finally revealed in the flesh and played by English actor Donald Pleasance. I've never been sure whether I should be amused or not by the choice, but Austin Powers sure has gotten a lot of mileage out of the bald head, physical deformity, and Nehru jacket. I like Pleasance a lot in the "Halloween" movies and other things, but his Blofeld is a bit underwhelming and not very convincing. It's obvious that little thought was put into this casting. Japanese actor Teru Shimada is cast as Mr. Osato, an industrial manufacturer of chemicals who supplies and ships rocket fuel for the joint Red China/SPECTRE venture. Let's just say that he's a bit of a bungler. Then we have his "confidential secretary" Helga Brandt, also SPECTRE #11 and his on-site liaison, portrayed by German actress Karin Dor. She's obviously a bit more efficient than Osato, but blows her best chance to kill Bond in favor of having sex with him. Both pay the price for it, as SPECTRE never tolerates failure. Finishing out the villains is Ronald Rich as Blofeld's silent henchman Hans, and Burt Kwouk and Michael Chow as Red Chinese agents. Considering the buildup of several years to when we would actually see Blofeld, very disappointing- 2/5
HUMOR- One of the areas where the movie stands out. So many great one liners that are not just limited to Connery, Q, and Moneypenny, the Japanese cast also gets off some good ones. I've used some of them in real life and they work just as well outside of the movie, especially since my "tree" is not bare. On the downside, attempting to pass off Connery as Japanese is laughable and not in a good way, and tends to temper my score for this category- 3.5/5
ACTION- Here we have another area where the movie stands out. Fantastic sequences include great battles such as Bond's autogiro versus 4 SPECTRE helicopters, the final battle inside Blofeld's volcano lair, and a very underrated fight between Bond and a Osato assassin inside his offices. The assassin is played by Peter Fanene Maivia, a famous wrestler in his day who also happens to be the grandfather of wrestler turned movie star Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson- 4/5
SADISM- More good stuff here which helps the movie. Blofeld feeding people alive to a steaming pool full of piranhas is quite sadistic, especially if you realize how nasty a single piranha bite actually is. Brandt's plastic surgeon tools are fairly nasty as well but never get used, but the threat of using them gets across. Not at the levels of the prior three films, but effective enough- 3/5
MUSIC- Coming off the somewhat disappointing Thunderball and the magnificent tear jerking Oscar winning score of Born Free, it was interesting for me as a child to see what Barry would come up with, and the effort was closer to the latter. A timelessly beautiful and memorable title song and other pieces such as "Mountains and Sunsets" and "The Wedding" just seem to perfectly embody the scenes and scenery. Barry's use of Japanese instruments adds to the overall ambience without being too cliche, I love this soundtrack and give it top marks- 5/5
LOCATIONS- Described as "lush splendor" on the back of the VHS release, the Japanese locations are certainly all that. And Ken Adam's set pieces are all that and more. Gorgeous places that make me want to be there in person- 5/5
GADGETS- What can be said about Little Nelly and all the Japanese weapons such as the "rocket cigarette", a helicopter equipped with a powerful magnet, Aki's car with direct contact to headquarters, and the Chinese designed spacecraft that swallowed the American and Soviet space capsules? Nothing bad for sure. It's all used to great effect and that's what I expect, gadgets that are going to be used and not Q's experimental models that are there for laughs- 5/5
SUPPORTING CAST- I don't find M, Q, or Moneypenny to be particularly great in this category, just average compared to their prior performances. However, Bond does get a solid Kerim Bey type ally that really works. Japanese actor Tetsuro Tamba portrays Tiger Tanaka, the head of the Japanese Secret Service. He is like most Japanese, highly efficient but also with a great sense of humor. He and Bond establish both a solid working partnership that firmly aids Bond, and a personal friendship that treats Bond to much laughter and more. English actor Charles Gray plays Bond's MI6 contact in Japan, Dikko Henderson, who has assimilated well to the culture after many years but still retains his English identity. I would have liked to have seen more of him compared to what I saw 4 years later- 4/5
OVERALL SCORE AND RECOLLECTIONS- As stated in my prior review, I fell asleep at the theater but certainly not from boredom with the PTS, and didn't get to see this one until later in 1969. Many things about the movie registered well with me and still do to the day. I had my very first crush in Mie Hama, a woman I find to be a living goddess and my personal "cherry pie" fantasy. The gadgets, music, humor, and action are mostly first rate, somewhat innovative, and memorable. Although it appears my ratings say I like this one more than Dr. No, as an overall effort that isn't quite the case as I tend to favor the strength of the Bond performance, villains, and storyline of Dr. No to slam bang action and humor. Maybe I'm weird in this respect, but I am one of those who definitely enjoys this movie and all the good things it does bring. It scores 38 out of 50 points for me, or an average of 3.8
2012 SirHenryLeeChaChing:
Everyone agrees that the Barry soundtrack is the highlight of the film, but so far it's a mixed bag as far as the overall view. I don't agree with the thought that the movie is the worst of the Connery's nor even a bottom feeder. I like the film and always enjoy a watch. Personally, I think somewhere between 11-16 out of now 23 is about right, definitely not a top 10 but it has some very enjoyable moments.
Well, I think you are right, @Beatles - he most likely would consider YOLT a "classic" Bond film, though not the strongest. He would perhaps have put it on his "classic" list. I think maybe because of all the elements that YOLT gives us. Speculation, but still ... just so nice to read his very well written words again about this Bond film.
Correct if im wrong.
1 Bond films which were highly successful in the classic era of films that means only the Connery and Moore films qualify here.
2 Bond films which go with the formula: gun barrel at the beginning, Pre Tittles sequence, Bond gets his mission, gets his gadgets from Q sleeps with some girls fights the Viilain and love scene at the end.
3 The Bond films which will be the most remembered in many years to come and often appear in the best Bond films lists. That means those are essential for anyone who wants to get into Bond which I would shorten the list to 6 that means the most emblematic film for each actor.
Sean Connery- Dr No
George Lazenby- On her majesty's secret service
Roger Moore- The Spy who loved me
Timothy Dalton-The living daylights
Pierce Brosnan- Goldenye
Daniel Craig- Casino Royale
HM to Goldfinger, Skyfall and From Russia with love but I reduced the list to just one film per actor.
4 The films we consider the best or Bond the films we like the most this definition is the most subjective and personal as much as we try it's almost a mission impossible to separate best from favorites.
I guess a classic does need universal appraisal: the most iconic film. So I did a quick search:
Time Out places it 4th (!)
https://www.timeout.com/newyork/film/the-best-and-worst-james-bond-movies-a-ranked-list#tab_panel_3
At the toptens it reaches 14
http://www.thetoptens.com/top-ten-james-bond-movies/
IMDB has it on the 11th spot:
http://www.imdb.com/list/ls000007221/
rottentomatos put it on 12
https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/james-bond-movies/3/
All in all, it mainly falls just behind the top 10. The best way would be to go interview people in the street I guess to see if it's iconic (enough).
It's hard to disagree with your point #4, @szonana: our personal "favorites" are generally the "best" as far as most of us are concerned! I wouldn't use your point #2 as a true definition of "classic" though -- by that definition, nearly ALL the Bond films (outside of Craig's) are classics. I could live with a list of "classics" which included your list in #3 plus the other three you mention there. A list of "classic" Bond films that didn't include FRWL or GF just wouldn't fill the bill for me!
Thanks for taking the time to read such a long post and im glad you agreed with mots of my definitions and yes my third one i knew I almost had to include the three i left for HM but i asked my self if someone wanted my recommendations for the most obligatory films to watch a first time Bond watcher and asked me to choose one for each these 6 I thought were the most important for each actor.
With Sean and Craig i did struggle.
Goldfinger had the girl in Gold, Oddjob and the lesser scene, From Russia with love its his most grouneded film with very famous fight scene in the Train and Rosa Klebb's shoe but at the end i felt that first Bond James Bond From Sean Connery was legendary so that's why i picked Dr No.
With Daniel Craig i had such a hard time between Casino Royale and Skyfall.
Skyfall had the better Villain, was the one which made Billion Dollar Mark and the comeback to the full Mi6 team but at the end i went for Casino Royale introduced Craig in a great way and its the First Novel writen by Fleming and for that included the very first Bond girl.
This film also has very classic moments like its pre tittles seqeuence on how Bond got his 00 status, The train meeting with Vesper and its the most glamourous from the Craig era.
Anyway I agree with you and @Beatles, with the connotation thait I personally am not much of a fan of Goldfinger. But I can't deny it the classic status. It's probably the first Bond-film people mention. It has too many iconic scenes and it's based on a Fleming story. Even better: it was the first true blockbuster succes for Bond. So there's no way not mentioning GF, even though I find the story not too strong and at times poorly executed.
Establishing the formula:
DN
FRWL
GF
Executing that formula:
YOLT
TSWLM
GE
Diverging from the fomula:
OHMSS
LTK
CR
For me it's a classic in the sense that it was the first time since 69 they left the GF template for what it was and went for something original instead.
He does have a large team behind him to help fill in when he is absent, plus he can leave that tape recorder going while he nips out to do his other job.
And you're totally welcome to. There's plenty I enjoy about it too. I just don't think it's on the same level as FRWL or CR.
I’m using an amalgamation of @Goldenballs definitions of “classic” here. In which case, here are my humble suggestions for the “classic” Bond film.
Firstly, Dr. No, From Russia With Love and Goldfinger classify as “classic” Bond films. They were trendsetters, and, as someone pointed out in a previous post, those first three films were innocent; unburdened by what is was to be a Bond movie.
Which brings me on, quite neatly, to Thunderball and You Only Live Twice. By this time the producers were keenly aware of the formula, leading to the bloated films that they are. But they have the ineffable 60’s magic, to them. So, in a sense, one could argue that they are indeed “classic”.
Two points I find to be weighing against those two films entering the “classic” stable, are, the fact that, other than Bond fans, Thunderball is rarely mentioned by the general public - a rather flimsy excuse, yes I grant you, but a film should be able to branch out of its own genre- or if they do remember it, it is only as “the underwater one”. Little iconography then, despite outstanding contributions by Connery, Luciana Paluzzi, Barry, Maibaum, Adam et al.
You Only Live Twice on the other hand is too well remembered, with Austin Powers laying rip into it. Certainly it is iconic, perhaps second only to Goldfinger. Yet it is too outlandish for it’s own good, despite my affections for You Only Live Twice.
Rounding out the 60’s films is the marvellous – sorry @4EverBonded! - On Her Majesty’s Secret Service. Does it deserve the “classic” tag, bestowed upon it? Well if one looks at @Thunderfinger’s definitions above, then yes. Indubitably yes.
I could see Live and Let Die’s inclusion in the “classic” films - Moore; the (overlong) boat chase; a plethora of neat villains; the unusual blend of voodoo. And surely the theme song is a classic. But the overt humour really hurts this film, like most of the 70’s efforts.
But not The Spy Who Loved Me! Yes, it’s quite out-there. But the formula has so rarely been executed with this level of panache! And it was the first Bond film of the 70's to be comfortable as a Bond film – the trio of Hamilton directed Bond movies, seemed to shy away from being a Bond movie, instead latching on to whatever thing was in at that particular moment. A “classic” Bond film and a “formula” Bond film in one.
Despite having the same crew as Spy, Moonraker, like You Only Live Twice before it, flounders in its own excesses.
I have a soft spot for the Glen era, but I struggle to make the case for his films to be “classic”. For Your Eyes Only and The Living Daylights come closest to the definition, but they lack a certain swagger and style. But they do come up trumps with the Fleming material, which makes a big difference to us Bond fans. And both For Your Eyes Only and The Living Daylights play to the formula to a tee.
Many of the users of this site regard GoldenEye as a standard “classic” fare, and most evidently people of my generation. But GoldenEye always has left me cold. Not helped by the score, which is another thing I’ve been remiss in leaving out of this discussions. Yet GoldenEye did reinvigorate the series. But maybe it is too “formula” for the strict guidelines of this little experiment.
Ok, thank you for reading this gibberish by the way, onto our last candidate – Casino Royale. It’s already a classic both in “something of the highest class” and the “something that has stood the test of time” definitions. Casino Royale subverts the typical Bond formula, and is all the better for it.
Royale’s “Classic” Bond Films are presented thusly -
Dr. No
From Russia With Love
Goldfinger
On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
The Spy Who Loved Me
Casino Royale
Thank you and Goodnight.
Dr No(1962)
From Russia with Love(1963)
Goldfinger (1964)
On Her Majesty's Secret Service(1969)
Casino Royale (2006)
Well actually i did love Goldfinger, my only issue is Pussy Galore as the main Bond girl love interest. She is way too sexy for the main Bond girl, i wished the other Masterson would have been the Main Bond girl.
Its a little strange seeing such a strong and commanding bond girl in the Connery era when we compare her to the angel faces of Claudine Auger and Ursulla Andres.
Usually with Bond the sexy Bond Girl is the Villain while the more dolll face is the main Bond Girl.
Great thoughts @Birdleson. Those are great picks I think. All the golden age Bond films speak for themselves, and the last five you listed all feel like classic Bond films to me as well that will be some of the best-remembered as the series goes on.
But is YOLT remembered by the general public or is it Austin Powers? As for Thunderball, only today I was listening to a non-movie podcast, where they ended up discussing the Thunderball jet pack scene. That's a pretty iconic moment right there.
Good discussion with everyone here. Keep in mind, we will not agree on all the films we consider "classic" and that is fine. B-)
Dr.No
From Russia With Love
Goldfinger
Thunderball
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
The Spy Who Loved Me
The Living Daylights
Goldeneye
Casino Royale
Skyfall
That's 10 classics out of 24 possible candidates. Sorry, all you partisans for YOLT or LALD...but I've deleted my own lesser favorite, FYEO. This is a list I can defend another day... or at least until Halle Berry comes slinking out of the water with that look in her eye...