SirHenryLeeChaChing's For Original Fans - Favorite Moments In NTTD (spoilers)

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  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    I agree with your review. On rewatching Brosnan's films last year, I feel they get worse and worse. So upsetting to have such a downward trend.
  • I agree with you about this more in regard to TWINE and DAD. GE and TND are fairly and mostly equal for me in the enjoyment factor even if GE rates 2 points higher in my reviews. From the comments I have read in different places, I think TND is going to do pretty well amongst our review panel in a head to head comparison.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Sorry I Forgot to Knock!
    GoldenEye

    BOND- 3. After a six year gap, Bond's back, but unfortunately the magnificent Timothy Dalton has declined to appear in the new film as Bond, so finally PB gets his chance at the character he's been after for so long. I'm neither a Pierce Basher or a Brosnan Lover, I find his playing of the role a mix of Connery and Moore with a dash of Dalton, he never seemed to me to be his own Bond. And in this film he looks a little like a playboy rather than a secret agent (whatever they are meant to look like!).

    WOMEN- 4. Natalya Simonova is cute and sexy and a great addition to the Bond girl canon, the girl sent to assess James at the beginning of the film is a push-over and seems to have come from another time and film altogether. The high score for the women is all for Natalya who has great chemistry with Bond and proves herself a great ally.

    VILLAINS- 4. A great cast of villains, especially the sexually excitable (while killing) Xenia who even has some one-liners to deliver. Sean Bean's duplicitous 006 is a good villain for Pierce to spark off, and his weariness at Bond's refusal to give up and die is great. General Ourumov and Boris round out the great cast of villains.

    HUMOR- 3. With Pierce's lightness of touch there was an increase in the humour stakes, but the more I view this film the less I like the humour, finding some of it slightly juvenile, although I'm sure that I found it quite good on initial viewing.

    ACTION-5. From the PTS to the final showdown, there is plenty of action, some of it too much like other action films, plenty of bullets flying around, something Brosnan's film suffer from. Martin Campbell and his second unit handle the action well, and the fight at the end is well done.

    SADISM- 3. Not really as sadistic film, too light of touch for that, and most of it comes from one character, Xenia who seems to get off on killing even to the extent of delivering some winch inducing one-liners!

    MUSIC- 1. Oh dear. I understand there are some out there that actually like this score, but to me there are some really jarring moments, the awful music that comes with the car chase really belongs to a whole different film. And as for the song at the end…jeez. I have to confess as well that I'm not a fan of the title song, U2 and TT, how could it go wrong, but there just seems to be something not quite right.

    LOCATIONS- 4. Great use of locations, and none of them feel as if they are just there for

    GADGETS- 3. A fairly routine set of gadgets, nothing really stands out plus you get a tricked up BMW on which we don't see any gadgets just James asking Wade not to touch any buttons.

    SUPPORTING CAST- 4. Probably the strongest aspect of the film, a new M in Judi Dench, Michael Kitchen as Tanner, and Jack Wade a Felix replacement (why they didn't just have Felix I don't know) who, along with Robbie Coltrane as Valentin Zukovsky provide most of the humour. And with a new Bond we have a new Moneypenny, Samatha Bond makes a welcome return to a secretary who's not a cliche, but I don't like the interplay with her and Bond and this seems to get worse as the series progresses, Lois' flirting with Connery was great and a masterclass in how these two should be…but times change.

    OVERALL SCORE AND RECOLLECTIONS- 34. The first Bond that I didn't catch in the cinema since I started watching Bond, due to work as far as I can remember. So I had to wait to catch this on panned and scanned VHS. Although I was happy that Bond was back after 6 years away, I was annoyed that Dalton wasn't back as Bond. Although I enjoyed this on initial viewing, as time passes I don't find it as good as I originally thought it was. On the whole not a bad Bond film, it has two top Bond girls in it (okay so one's a villain), some great action set pieces and a good fight at the end. The over the top PTS features a great stunt, bungee jump over the damn, but begs the question if Bond had to bungee to get into the facility how does 006 get in? and of course the much maligned freefall into plane pushes the boundaries of believability - but then it is just an escapist entertainment. A solid outing for Pierce but I much prefer his next.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Yet another excellent review from Lancaster that as usual, I find myself agreeing a lot with. Some of the best points-

    1. Another reason I find Brosnan to be a lot more like Moore is the playboy aspect of his portrayal. Connery could do this better than anyone yet there was always a measure of cold hearted "love them and leave them" philosophy behind it that especially didn't work for me in this era. It was more of a typical paint by numbers effort that plagued this era, like "this is what Bond does so we'll do it", and lacked the spark and fun of Connery, Moore, even Lazenby. As I've mentioned and agreed with, this was not Dalton's forte either but I see Craig is getting very close to Connery and Moore because I really enjoy his interactions with women much like I did 1962-1985.

    2, You're so right to call Caroline a pushover. She was like a lovestruck teenager about to get her first kiss. I didn't mind girls who were easy to a degree, but this character was a big eye rolling joke that looked to have the aim of getting Pierce over as a ladies man, and that he didn't need because the female viewers like my wife already knew and liked him.

    3. The flying bullets between the archives and Bond running up the satellite dish were exactly what kept the action score down. Trevalyan of all people should not have missed Bond entirely.

    4. I still don't like Samantha Bond as Moneypenny no matter how much I've tried to convince myself otherwise. But then again, you have to do the script you're given. Wish her real life persona had the gravitas of her character, I found it rather demeaning and it did not make her look good. Did we really need to hear the "as far as I know, you've never had me" line as Bond enters the war room to meet with M? Lois would have dropped that line from the script faster than a hot potato. I think we already knew as much, and that was too "in your face" for me after her amusing "I trust you'll stay "onatopp" of things" line, which is something Lois would have said.

    5. After 3 reviews for GE (one more and I can do a partial rating next week), it's gratifying to see that we recognize this soundtrack for the stinking dog that it is. I do appreciate the Bond theme on timpani drum, but I've always felt the cinematography and storyline gave the movie it's Cold War feel way more than the music ever did.

    Finally, I never considered how Trevalyan got in without also bungeeing down to the back door. That's a good point. I guess I always figured that since we would see later that he had a deal going with Ourumov, that's how it happened. The bigger thought I had once inside Arkangel is how he managed to supposedly shoot Trevalyan in the head and not kill him.

    I also managed to overlook Trevalyan's classic villain physical deformity due to the chemical explosion, but this bunch got a top 5 out of 5 mark for me so I guess for me it didn't matter much that this was also a good if not cliched part of the character.










  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    I decided to step in on your discussion to say how much I enjoy reading this thread. Now that you stepped into the Brosnan era I feel a lot closer to you originals, as the first Bond I watched in theaters was GE. Keep on the good work, I'm looking forward to read the rest of the reviews.
  • Again, a slightly short collection of thoughts as I'm not a true original.

    So, after a much better than expected debut (both performance and movie) with GE I was really looking forward to TND. After the film was over I felt a vague sense of dissatisfaction; it was the first time that I had felt let down or disappointed by a Bond film in a theatre. So I was hopeful that TWINE would be better.

    After watching TWINE on opening night I had that same feeling of being let down, but there was also something that I had never felt before - and never expected to feel - when watching a Bond film. Embarrassment. I was quite literally cringing when the infamous "confronting Elektra" scene occurred. I quite liked Brosnan, but that was the point when I realized just how limited he was and, like Roger Moore before him, he could never truly be Bond for me.

    The thing I most remember from watching TWINE that first time is that something would happen that I really liked or thought was really good, then it was followed by something surprisingly bad. The good elements were quite good - I very much liked Marceau's character and her performance, I liked the lush title song, Brosnan was at his most nattily attired, and there were some great moments. But then there was Brosnan's trying-too-hard performance, the most lacklustre actions scenes of any Bond film (how hard could it possibly be to make the fight between Renard and Bond exciting and tense? The same with the parahawk scene?), and embarrassing single-entendre humour. So many elements that could have been fantastic were squandered either through lack of talent or not being thought through well .

    When TWINE was over I rated it *slightly* above TND because I thought "well, at least they TRIED to make a better film". But my thoughts have changed; I now appreciate TND for the slight, action-y Bond that it is and rate TWINE as a failure, in fact a near disaster (it also seems much more dreary than a Bond film should be - instead of beautiful locations we get sweeping shots of OIL FIELDS!).

    But the biggest thing I take away from TWINE is that it's a perfect response to those who think that Brosnan was under-served by the writing in his era, or those who think he would have been the greatest Bond ever "if only he got a decent script". He got more emotional meat and character work than any of the previous actors and look where that got us.
  • Posts: 2,341
    I'm back. Sorry I'm late. Got carried away by the holidays and Football playoffs. GO NINERS.

    GOLDENEYE 1995

    BOND 2.5 I never got the public's love affair with Pierce Brosnan. As Bond this first time out the gate and after that long hiatus after LTK I was disappointed in Brosnan first appearance. Slipping into a toilet while some Ruskie is taking a shit? Please. The producers were not taking him seriously and neither could I. His scenes with old Q and his leading lady seemed forced and just did not do a thing for me. His high point was the fight with 006 on the satellite tower.

    WOMEN 4.O Natalya is good, Xenia is fun and Famke Janssen is sexy and fun, the others not so much. She makes up for the weak Moneypenny, the woman who was grading him as well. The ladies are attractive but aside from Natalya a real disappointment.

    VILLIANS 4.5 This was the high point of the movie for me. Janus' gallery of rogues are quite good. From Sean Bean's Alec Trevelynn to General Ouronov, and that pesky Boris. I place the femme fatale Xenia in and she score high marks as well.

    HUMOR 3.0 I was never a fan and despite Dalton's gritty films the producers still seem obscessed with harking back to the tongue in cheek of the Moore days. Why? I don't know.

    ACTION 4.0 The film is full of action sequences and lots of guns and shooting. The tank chase thru St. Petersburg never did anything for me but the excitement on Trevelynn's train and the climax on the tower is top notch.

    SADISM 3.0 Not too much as they were still influenced by the Moore films. Xenia's kill on the admiral and her death as well as Trevelynn's is violent and brutal.

    MUSIC 2.0 Nothing to write home about. John Barry is missed.

    LOCATIONS 3.0 The scenes in Russia are quite good and well utilized. Expecially the monument graveyard when Bond meets "Janus" face to face.

    GADGETS 3.0 They were credible and added to the narrative.

    SUPPORTING 3.0 Judi Dench is at the top of her game. the new Moneypenny I did not care for. I wish they had kept the girl from the Dalton films. Joe Don Baker who played Jack Wade is very good and so is the actor who played Vallentine. I was so disappointed in old Desmond. He was in his eighties at the time and could hardly remember his lines. the scene with Brosnan in Q branch was clumsy and it was so ovbious he was reading from cue cards. this was a mistake. Why didn't hey just replace him? They got a new M and Moneypenny why subject a beloved character to this insult?

    OVERALL SCORE 32 or 3.2 I was not happy with choice of Bond actor and the over reliance on the Moore era. that being said, the film is fairly good and it was a good start for Pierce Brosnan. I think that with a stronger Bond actor ( perhaps Dalton or Sean Bean) this film would have rivaled LTK.


  • Posts: 2,341
    TOMORROW NEVER DIES 1997

    BOND 2.7 Though he looked better, more polished and more at ease with a nicer hairdo, I still find Brosnan flat and weak as a Bond. His scene with Kaufman is the high water mark of Brosnan's portrayal.

    WOMEN 2.0 The leading lady, Wei is very good. Singapore born Michelle Yeow was a star in Asian action films and it shows here. Her sexiness and seff assurance says a lot about the character and she is every bit Bond's equal. Actually she shows him up on several instances. The "other" girl: Terri Hatcher....she plays an old flame and is portrayed by the "it" girl at the time. Hatcher is pretty awful...her acting, her lousy dialogue and she just does not come off as very sympathethic. (I can't spell for shit) Pathethic is more like it. This was the first time that the producers stooped to "stunt casting" (Hatcher got the part because of her popularity at the time) This decision to cast popular actresses not taking into consideration their acting or chemistry with Pierce would haunt the Brosnan films from this point forward.

    VILLAINS 2.0 weak, very very weak. With the exception of the killer Dr. Kaufman, the villains are very 3rd rate. Carver has no menace and Stamper is just another big blond guy for Bond to fight.

    HUMOR 4.0 The humor is not as "over the top" as we saw during the 70's but a nice blend.

    ACTION 3.0 Okay but not too memorable.

    SADISM 3.0 The way the bad guys are disposed of (Stamper, Carver)

    MUSIC 1.0 another low point for the Brosnan films.

    LOCATIONS 3.0 For the most part they served the purpose and have a feeling of "being there."

    GADGETS 3.0

    SUPPORTING CAST 2.0 Was not happy with any of the casting in this film. Aside from Dench and Michelle Yeoh the cast was nothing to remember.

    OVERALL SCORE 25.7 or 2.5 round to 2.6
    The producers really tried to play if safe this time. "Bond by the numbers". The movie is overly formulaic with very little to make me want to remember it by. At least GE had great characters and some good action scenes but this one falls real flat.


  • Posts: 2,341
    I'm on a roll now.
    THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH 1999

    BOND 2.7 Once again we are treated to Pierce Brosnan. A good looking guy strutting around in a tux and acting like he thinks Bond would act. Good luck.

    WOMEN 1.3 Denise Richards as a nuclear physicist. If this is not shark jumping then I don't know what it is. Richards was very popular at the time and every teen-aged boy's wet dream (not to mention us old timers as well) she is very decorative but she could not act her way out of a barrel and has zero chemistry with Brosnan. I just wish EON would have paid more attention to the casting director.

    VILLAINS 3.0 I give high marks to main villainess, Elektra King. She is a real high point and was the most memorable character in the film. Sexy cool. Renaud...now that is another story. When I heard that Bond would meet a villain that could not feel pain, I thought, "wow, I have to see that." He is under utilized and though he looks fairly menacing he is rather flat.

    HUMOR 2.0 I thought the jokes fell very flat and the one liners sucked anally. "I thought Christmas only comes once a year". that is the worst line since "Take me around the world James" (MR)

    ACTION 3.0 I was not impressed. I just had a feeling of "been there, done that" during the helicopter with the saw and the ski scenes. the boat chase on the River Thames was the most exciting part of the film and why I gave this category a 3. Even the fight with Renaud on the sub was ho hum.

    SADISM 3.0 Bond is cold with his killing of the security guy as well as Elektra.

    MUSIC 2.0 From the opening title song to the rest. Just uninspired.

    LOCATIONS 2.0 BORING.

    GADGETS 3.0 The balloon thing that he and Elektra used in the ski scene was cool The boat during the chase with Cigar girl but we never see it again after the PTS.

    SUPPORTING CAST 3.0

    OVERALL SCORE 25 or 2.5 The movie just flat lined after the PTS. It just did not feel right. Renaud's oblivious to pain is wasted and the premise of Bond v. Elektra is not utilized to the fullest. For some reason, EON is just overly cautious with Brosnan and the films and I just don't know why.
  • OHMSS69 wrote:


    OVERALL SCORE 25 or 2.5 The movie just flat lined after the PTS. It just did not feel right. Renaud's oblivious to pain is wasted and the premise of Bond v. Elektra is not utilized to the fullest. For some reason, EON is just overly cautious with Brosnan and the films and I just don't know why.

    I think a big part of it was after the LTK debacle they wanted to "give the audience what they wanted". After LTK and then the money problems it looked like the series was finished, so EON was being overly cautious at that point. Luckily now Bond is so well cemented in popularity again - SF has surpassed TB to become the highest grossing Bond film ever (accounting for inflation) - that they can take more chances to try for a higher level of quality. But the 90s were an era of making sure that the SERIES was successful, not just one film. So it was cementing the "brand" of Bond by, as I said, giving the audience what they wanted.



  • edited January 2013 Posts: 3,494
    OHMSS69 wrote:


    OVERALL SCORE 25 or 2.5 The movie just flat lined after the PTS. It just did not feel right. Renaud's oblivious to pain is wasted and the premise of Bond v. Elektra is not utilized to the fullest. For some reason, EON is just overly cautious with Brosnan and the films and I just don't know why.

    I think a big part of it was after the LTK debacle they wanted to "give the audience what they wanted". After LTK and then the money problems it looked like the series was finished, so EON was being overly cautious at that point. Luckily now Bond is so well cemented in popularity again - SF has surpassed TB to become the highest grossing Bond film ever (accounting for inflation) - that they can take more chances to try for a higher level of quality. But the 90s were an era of making sure that the SERIES was successful, not just one film. So it was cementing the "brand" of Bond by, as I said, giving the audience what they wanted.

    This makes a lot of sense to me, well said. Unfortunately, the "paint by numbers" approach seemed to really take hold starting with TND. That one I could excuse and embrace a lot more because I actually enjoyed it, plus it was Brosnan's best performance as Bond, the leading lady was believably kick ass, and the music was a big time tribute to the Barry sound that had been sorely lacking two years earlier.

    Still not sure how OHMSS or anyone else can score a soundtrack featuring "Surrender" and "Paris' Theme" lower than a weak TWINE and that god awful, eardrum melting GE :-&
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Surrender was a TOP SHELF Bond song. Awesome.
  • Posts: 2,341
    a comment about the Bond by the numbers and playing it "safe"
    I never got it. In hindsight, maybe Babs and MGW still felt they were in Cubby's shadow and were trying to live up to their late father's legacy. It seems that since the Craig films the two have decided to "cut loose" and have forged their own legacy and direction of the series.
    All of Brosnan's films have a funny feel to them like they were trying to live up to something. Maybe its just me but face it. Even the titles are interchangable (except for GE) The generic opening titles, the title songs, the light hearted humor...
    CR changed all that. MGW had proved himself a capable screenwriter (FYEO, LTK) and his willingness to turn the chores over to the likes of Purvis and Wade....I'm ranting now.
  • I think the producers are all about marketing. Brosnan was the David Beckham of his day, looked good, iconic, didn't deliver on his promise. Craig is the Wayne Rooney, bullish, ugly but also doesn't deliver as an international player. That is, Craig's Bond often basically screws up his assignment (Quantum get the money, the gal dies, M gets killed, etc). Both are great commercially. But Craig gets the kudos for being tougher and meaner and a better actor than his predessessor, just as Brozzer at the time got kudos for not being as camp or silly as Moore, or dour as Dalton.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Ratings from the originals after 17 films, as of 6PM U.S EST as I watch the snow coming down from the heavens-


    1. Goldfinger- 4.23
    2. From Russia With Love- 4.20
    3. The Living Daylights- 4.12
    4. Thunderball- 4.10
    5. Licence To Kill- 4.06
    6. The Spy Who Loved Me- 4.05
    7. On Her Majesty's Secret Service- 4.00
    8. You Only Live Twice- 3.92
    9. For Your Eyes Only- 3.90
    10. Live And Let Die- 3.83
    11. Octopussy- 3.73
    12. Dr. No- 3.62
    13. GoldenEye (4/6 reviews)- 3.58
    13. A View To A Kill- 3.28
    14. The Man With The Golden Gun- 3.13
    15. Diamonds Are Forever- 3.02
    16. Moonraker- 2.97


    Now that we've got 4 of out 6 votes in that allowed me to post a partial score for GoldenEye, here's the list of the last 3 films I've posted and who still owes a review. OHMSS69 like myself is currently exempt as he has posted his current three reviews-


    GOLDENEYE- No votes from 4Ever Bonded and Kerim
    TOMORROW NEVER DIES- No votes from Nic, Lancaster, 4Ever Bonded, and Kerim
    THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH- No votes from Nic, Lancaster, 4Ever Bonded, and Kerim

    I know some of our lives have been crazy, so hopefully the weekend will bring more reviews and we'll soon be able to wrap up GoldenEye and have enough reviews for me to post preliminary scores for the other two next Friday. I know both 4Ever and Kerim like GoldenEye a lot so I expect that score to rise up perhaps into the top 10. For the moment, I will delay any further reviews until we get reasonably caught up as I don't want to overburden anyone. I'll give notice when Die Another Day is forthcoming, until then I look forward to more reviews and thoughts from originals and newer fans alike!
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    They'll Print Anything These Days

    BOND- 3.5. For me Brosnan's best performance as Bond, there are two scenes where I do believe I am looking at Bond. In the confrontation with Dr Kaufman, perhaps Pierce's most Bondian moment and in the little scene in the hotel room, gun and drink on table, tie untied waiting to see who Carver sends, reminiscent of the hotel room scene shot in LTK but unused. Looking less like a playboy in this one and delivering some great one-liners, but still not his own Bond.

    WOMEN- 4. Bond's ex Paris Carver is played by the gorgeous Teri Hatcher, who unfortunately seems to have had a bad experience making this film, but she does look hot. And now we have Bond teaming up with the very capable Wai Lin. And for once this feels like a proper teaming up and not forced just for the story. There is great chemistry with Pierce and Michelle.

    VILLAINS- 3. Carver is a modern villain, in that he is not out for global dominance…well actually his is, but via his media and will even provide a war to boost sales! He has a typically Aryan henchman in Mr Stamper a hulking brute, albeit a well-dressed one, who can withstand quite a bit of pain and has quite an unusual role-model in Dr Kaufman. The Dr provides some of the best moments in the film which culminates in Pierce's most Bondian moment.

    HUMOR- 3.5. Nice humour with Wade and Bond, 'He didn't even say goodbye', quite a few one-liners, some work, some are groan worthy and again the humour with Moneypenny for me is forced.

    ACTION-4. Most of the criticism aimed at this particular Bond is that it is too action heavy in the latter half. And that maybe so, but when that action involves the brilliant Michelle Yeoh then I'll not complain. The PTS sequence is well done and has some tension to it and really works well with the pay off. As Sir Henry mentioned, how come he didn't lose his head? I like to think that the Russian pilot in realising his fate panicked and let go the garrotte. Plus I really like the motorcycle chase which is great fun and has some nice touches between to the two main players.

    SADISM- 3.Of course sinking an ship and gunning the surviours is sadistic, and most of the rest is implied as to Dr Kaufman's particular talents.

    MUSIC-4. David Arnold is given the gig after the appalling score that Serra did for GE (only NSNA is worse!) and he does a fine job giving us a score that sound like it belongs in a Bond film. And the film ends with Surrender by kd lang, an excellent tune and the best ending song since TLD.

    LOCATIONS-4. From the PTS to the finale, great locations used well and not too many, I didn't feel like the story moved from location to the next just because the director wanted to film in a certain place (Hamilton!).

    GADGETS- 4.Nice range of gadgets, from the BMW - not really a Bond car - to the very useful mobile phone with its remote for the car, fingerprint scanner and shocking security system. And Wai Lin's office is stocked full too! Of course Carver has the biggest gadget in the stealth ship, I really liked the idea of this.

    SUPPORTING CAST- 5.Giving Samantha Bond's Moneypenny the benefit of doubt, this is a great supporting cast, Judi Dench is a given, but we also get quality from Joe Don Baker reprising his role as Wade (love the look Bond gives him when they meet up, not impressed with his clothes), Q has a nice scene with Bond, Colin Salmon is great as Robinson and Geoffrey Palmer (who used to star in a sit com with Judi Dench) is pure class as Admiral Roebuck and even Julian 'Downton Abbey' Fellows pops up!

    OVERALL SCORE AND RECOLLECTIONS- 38. A surprisingly high score for a Bond by numbers film. But maybe that's why, all bases seem to be covered.
    After missing out in seeing GE in the cinema I made no such mistake this time and made sure a trip on opening day was in order. I find this the Brosnan Bond I can watch the most (I think that is mainly due to the excellent Michelle Yeoh and the chemistry between the leads), I know it gets too action heavy toward the end but I can still enjoy it. Bits that don't work for me are some of the one-liners, Moneypenny and Bond's relationship, and Bond in a BMW? I'm sorry but Bond should only be in an Aston or a Lotus, the Beemer's a nice executive car, but for Bond. No.
  • Another excellent review by Lancaster. Glad to see TND getting a little love I feel is more deserved than not.

    1. Agreed, Pierce's best Bond and most Bondian performance. I do not feel that way about DAD, although I think that he was better there than in TWINE in which his skill set was overmatched by the script.

    2. Also agreed about Yeoh, everything Berry could never be. A real shame she didn't return in DAD, that would have been perfect for a reunion with Bond and would have improved the movie many times over. I'd still go with Sophie as my favorite of the era because she's Sophie, but Yeoh and Scorupco aren't far behind.

    3. Arnold's effort here speaks volumes for it's excellence if you are a devotee of Barry, how anyone would prefer GE is beyond my comprehension. I'll take this effort all day, every day. Nice to hear Serra realized his departure was too far off course.

    Can't wait for your thoughts on TWINE, it ought to be very interesting ;)







  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Seriously now, I only have Supporting Cast to do for TND and it will be posted.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 3,494
    NicNac wrote:
    Seriously now, I only have Supporting Cast to do for TND and it will be posted.

    That will be great, as I can post a partial ranking for TND this Friday with the next review. I know 4Ever is trying to get something in. I wonder where that Kerim got to, he was so looking forward as he put it, to making sure the bottom feeders got some company.

  • Posts: 2,341


    :
    NicNac wrote:
    Seriously now, I only have Supporting Cast to do for TND and it will be posted.

    That will be great, as I can post a partial ranking for TND this Friday with the next review. I know 4Ever is trying to get something in. I wonder where that Kerim got to, he was so looking forward as he put it, to making sure the bottom feeders got some company.

    Hurry up, I'm sharpening my knives for DAD ... ... ...
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,247
    OHMSS69 wrote:

    :
    NicNac wrote:
    Seriously now, I only have Supporting Cast to do for TND and it will be posted.

    That will be great, as I can post a partial ranking for TND this Friday with the next review. I know 4Ever is trying to get something in. I wonder where that Kerim got to, he was so looking forward as he put it, to making sure the bottom feeders got some company.

    Hurry up, I'm sharpening my knives for DAD ... ... ...

    Operation mincemeat?
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    TOMORROW NEVER DIES (1997)

    Bond
    Kills quite indiscriminately which is a little alarming. Also fails to consider the safety of the general public at certain times ( such as when he crashes a car through the car rental window). But James is having fun so that's alright then.
    Bond enjoys frolicking with a Danish lecturer as well as the villains wife,  hitting the vodka as well as the vodka martini and generally acting about as Gung Ho as he has ever acted before. 
    There are moments when the director should maybe have reigned Brosnan in a little ( Did he really need to keep eyeing Q's coat up and down at the airport for comic effect?  We got the joke the first time) but overall Pierce is in fine form and the bubbly, fast paced TND suited him down to the ground.
    4/5

    Women
    Wai Lin the Chinese agent is a true kick ass Bond girl. She is quite believable as the best China has to offer, just as Agent XXX was unbelievable as the best Russia had to offer in TSWLM (Anya's karate chop stance amid the pyramids is still the best unintentional laugh out loud moment of all the Bond films).
    We also have Carver's wife Paris played by the beautiful Terri Hatcher. I have no issues with her or her casting. She offers a suitably world weary and bored wife to a media mogul, jumping at the chance for one last fling with her lost love Bond. Maybe she knew it was her death sentence, but hey ho. Their major scene in the hotel room is enjoyable. Brosnan looks as handsome as he ever could, the mood is suitably mute and the whole thing works on a level we simply weren't used to in the modern Bond era.
    The Danish Professor gets in to a nice clinch with Bond, yet another acceptable nod to the past glories of Bond.
    4/5


    VILLAINS
    Eliot Carver the media mogul who manipulates the news for his own benefit. How long he has done this is unclear, but the scale of the devastation he causes would surely have lead to him being brought to justice long before he caused chaos in the South China Seas.
     His side kick is Stamper, yet another Red Grant wannabe. He kills almost for pleasure but never gets the chance to show off his torture implements to Bond..which is a shame.
    Dr Kaufman appears briefly as Stamper's 'father figure'. Kaufman kills Paris Carver but makes the mistake of trying to kill Bond. Had Stamper in fact not interrupted him I'm not too sure exactly how Bond intended to get out of his predicament. 
    Gupta the techno terrorist seems an interesting character initially but goes off the boil as his usefulness ( to the film, let alone Eliot) reduces.
    Kaufman is the pick of the bunch and he lasts all of 5 minutes.
    3/5

    ACTION
    Plenty of this. The PTS is fairly outstanding and has the added benefit of the rocket heading for the bazarre which means we are immediately on tenter hooks. 
    The action in the first half is nicely paced, and in the second half it's overflowing. Some great stunts which deserve recognition simply disappear, swamped by the sheer amount of stunts on offer. The bike stunts are tremendous (pre dating the similar SF by 15 years), i love the stunt with the banner which is a throw back to the silent film antics of Douglas Fairbanks Snr, and the HALO jump is fun. 
    What there is though is more or less faultless even though it all gets very noisy towards the end. 5/5

    HUMOUR
    I do have issues with the humour, as well as a lot of the other dialogue. The one liners Bond has are on the whole poorly written which by definition are poorly delivered (only Sean Connery and Tommy Cooper can make bad lines sound funny).
    Q is more amusing with his 'Its surprisingly difficult' line when he introduces the remote control car. 
    Carver also only manages to raise a smile with his flippant throw aways, not the sort of admirable chuckles we have had in the past courtesy of Goldfinger, Dr No and Drax. The lines Carver has are ok, but they lack a spark to raise them to the levels of past glories.
    Full of sexual innuendo (although just wait for Die Another Day), sneery put downs and preachy rhetoric, TND fails in this category quite dramatically 1.5/5

    Sadism 
    The rather alarming murder of the British sailors is up there with the murder of the miners in AVTAK
    and I don't mean that in a good way. Kaufman's torture implements  as not demonstrated by Stamper. The sea drill which does for Carver. More is probably implied rather than shown because there feels like there is a undercurrent of sadism in the film even though it's hard to show any real evidence.
    3/5

    Music
    David Arnold must have been so torn between Sheryl Crow's title song and k.d.lang's Surrender that both songs found their way on to the film, acting as bookends to the action. I'm ok with both of them to be fair. The incidental music works throughout, so I'm a happy enough bunny. 4/5

    Locations
    Oxford, Hamburg, Vietnam. Bond has been all over the world and sometimes it's about the way these places are captured. In TND we get a feel for the locations and it is especially nice to return to Phuket (doubling for Vietnam) last seen in TMWTGG. 4/5

    Gadgets
    Bond's mobile phone, his well stocked BMW and Wai Lins hideout which is bursting at the seems with amusing gadgets.  TND delivers on the gadget front and the film revels in it all, making no apologies for its 70s throwback feel.4/5

    Supporting Cast
    Apart from the usual M, Q and Moneypenny we have a new character in the form of Charles Robinson. Taller than even Bond himself Robinson manages to infiltrate the film with a blandness that is quite staggering. Elsewhere we have the return of Jack Wade, a character I admit to having a soft spot for, and the truly wonderful Geoffrey Palmer as the truly incompetent Admiral Roebuck. Roebuck lives in a man's world where a female head of the secret service is simply a bad show.
    It's a decent if slightly functional cast of characters, but as long as Judi Dench is there she lends a quality often missing in the 80s
    3.5/5

    Overall score and recollection36/50

    TND felt at the time like it was really trying to capture the feel of the golden days of the 60s and 70s. Director Roger Spottiswoode, despite the problems he had with a reduced shooting schedule and an incomplete script still captured certain flavours that were more Bondian in feel than any film for several years. The opening hour had sex, romance, action, glamour and even intrigue. It did famously lose it's way in the second act, but there is a lightness of touch, a feel for glamour that drives this pacey slice of hokum along.

    I felt quite upbeat at the time. Despite my love of TLD I had felt that the Bonds were failing to take their own legacy seriously. These films had been big hitters and now when the competition was getting intense the Bonds were being almost apologetic for their existence . Yet this was James Bond for goodness sake.

    And did it improve ? Did Eon turn round a fight back? Did they heck as like. It would be another nine years and the next reinvention of the franchise before Bond became a serious competitor once again.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Ratings from the originals after 18 films, as of 6PM U.S EST -


    1. Goldfinger- 4.23
    2. From Russia With Love- 4.20
    3. The Living Daylights- 4.12
    4. Thunderball- 4.10
    5. Licence To Kill- 4.06
    6. The Spy Who Loved Me- 4.05
    7. On Her Majesty's Secret Service- 4.00
    8. You Only Live Twice- 3.92
    9. For Your Eyes Only- 3.90
    10. Live And Let Die- 3.83
    11. Octopussy- 3.73
    12. Dr. No- 3.62
    13. GoldenEye (4/6 reviews)- 3.58
    14. Tomorrow Never Dies- (4/6 reviews)- 3.43
    15. A View To A Kill- 3.28
    16. The Man With The Golden Gun- 3.13
    17. Diamonds Are Forever- 3.02
    18. Moonraker- 2.97


    With 4 of out 6 votes in I could now post a partial score for Tomorrow Never Dies. To follow is the weekly list of the last 3 films I've posted and who still owes a review. OHMSS69 like myself is still exempt as he sharpens his butcher knives-


    GOLDENEYE- No votes from 4Ever Bonded and Kerim
    TOMORROW NEVER DIES- No votes from 4Ever Bonded and Kerim
    THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH- No votes from Nic, Lancaster, 4Ever Bonded, and Kerim


    Since we took a break last week and have TND up on the board, tomorrow I will release my review for the 20th film, the ill fated 40th anniversary edition entitled "Die Another Day". Thanks to my fellow originals for your diligence and to all who have added to the discussion. Have a great weekend!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited February 2013 Posts: 12,480
    Finally, at long last, I limp in with my complete review of Goldeneye ...

    Goldeneye

    For England, James?
    No, for me.

    BOND- 4.5 out of 5 I am a fan of Brosnan's Bond, and of Brosnan in other roles, too. But I didn't know him before Goldeneye. Brosnan had the looks, attitude, and charisma to be Bond - and after watching this film many times, I can say that he grew stronger as it went on, finishing as a believable Bond, one I was eager to see more of. (And he came into this role at the right time, in my opinion. A younger Brosnan would not have been as believable or multi-layered. Brosnan matured well.) For his first Bond movie, Brosnan's James Bond is not just a winsome playboy - although that part of the character was in play at the outset and Pierce's charm is evident. But if Bond were just one dimensional, or played by someone who really couldn't act, this film would have gone under like quicksand and the series jeopardized. He had the looks, all right, but a good Bond actor must have a LOT more than that for sure. And I liked Pierce's Bond, right from this first one. For many reasons: His self confidence in doing his job (driving his car or a tank, bungee-jumping to work, standing up to villains, etc. ), his ease with the ladies (reminiscent of Roger Moore, yet not a copy), his lovely give-and-take with Q, his going toe-to-toe with M, his gutsy fighting, his determination to save Natalya and to make sure that Goldeneye was destroyed for good, his loyalty to England, and his devastation at learning of 006's betrayal - all were nicely played by Pierce, building as this movie went along. Other than perhaps a too softly played intro of the "Bond, James Bond" line, I cannot fault him and I think he finishes as a very good Bond indeed, competent compelling, and strong. I couldn't wait for his next Bond film.


    WOMEN- 4.5 out of 5 Kudos go to Izabella Scorupco, who portrays one of the best Bond girls this series has ever had. I absolutely loved her character - Natalya is lovely, charming, feisty, and intelligent. Izabella gave a lot of fire and wit to Natalya. Definitely a strong, competent, and determined person, this was a woman who was a good match for Bond. To give just one example of what I mean by competent: Natalya escaped being sadistically murdered along with her colleagues, climbed out of the burning twisted metal that was her workplace, and made her way through that frozen and isolated part of Russia (enlisting the sled dogs to help, we assume) to wheedle her way into a computer store to send a message, knowing her life was now constantly in danger. Not to mention commandeering a helicopter by gunpoint to assist Bond at the end of the film. I cheered her on throughout this movie. She also had some good lines. I like, "Boys with toys" and her way of saying back to Pierce, "By the way, I'm fine, thank you very much." Bond and Natalya really complemented each other - I felt the chemistry between Pierce and Izabella sizzled. They sparked off each other quite well. Not a whiff of bimbo, no sleepwalking through this role - Izabella rocked. Her character was a key figure in this story, too. (Unlike let's say, the upcoming warm body called Christmas Jones in TWINE, Natalya was a thoroughly believable professional.) So yes, Natalya was a memorable Bond girl indeed. Which is terribly important, because they only other woman in this category would be the insipid Caroline, sent to evaluate Bond at the beginning of the film. Sigh ... I know her character was put there to be funny, and I felt like OK, here is another easy notch on Bond's belt, but I was happy when her scenes with Brosnan finally ended and the story moved on.

    VILLAINS- 5 out of 5 Without such a stellar cast of villains, this would not have been such a great Bond movie, but this movie shines in this category. Such fine actors here: Alan Cumming's slimy yet annoyingly funny Boris; deliciously sadistic sensual mayhem-loving murderess Xenia Onatopp played confidently by Famke Janssen; Gottfried John's General Ourumov, who really looks thoroughly untrustworthy and a bit of a nutcase (how did he get so far promoted, one wonders) - and of course, a great star turn by one of my favorite actors, Sean Bean as the main villain, Alec Trevalyan. Trevalyan is not a typical "I want to destroy the world and have all the wealth" megalomaniac kind of villain. Not really. It is more than that. He is rather interesting, just biding his time to avenge his parents and get his kicks destroying the England he had falsely pleaded loyalty to for so many years. Sean is menacing, quietly simmering at times and barely controlled at other times, coldhearted, and definitely a strong enough villain to challenge Bond. The whole interplay between them throughout the movie is quite good and has real tension, especially during the memorable fight scene on the satellite dish at the end. Trevalyan believes that he has always been better than Bond. A fatal mistake, as it turns out. Absolutely great cast of villains.

    HUMOR- 4.5 out of 5 Plenty of well played, nice, lighthearted humor. Definitely a return to a lighter Bond and thankfully without being over the top or too stupid (e.g., the awful Bondola or winking fish ...). Some one liners delivered better than others, but overall quite good in the humor department. The characters themselves, especially Valentin, lent some humor just by being themselves, not the one liners/cracks. Q, Irina, Natalya's quips with Bond, etc. Very well balanced, I felt.

    ACTION- 5 out of 5 Plenty of action, well shot, and well executed. The tank scene is rather famous, but that was not my favorite section. I liked the escape from the train and the final battle at the satellite dish of course. Great final confrontation! Brosnan handled himself quite capably and all the action served the story.


    SADISM- 3 out of 5 Mainly just Xenia. She did so enjoy it, though. ;) Not much actual blood shown, even though bodies are strewn about the Russian building Natalya escapes from.


    MUSIC- 1.5 out of 5 Just not a fan of this music. Where is the Bond feeling? Just not there. The title song is just okay for me, but at least it does sound a bit like a Bond song. I didn't care for the use of music in scenes. And that is a shame because Goldeneye could have been an even more outstanding movie if it had a great score. A shame; this was the film's only glaring fault.


    LOCATIONS- 4 out of 5 Lovely locations, nicely filmed, gave a feeling of being there - whether it was the frozen upper reaches of Russia, the streets of St. Petersburg (that was great!), Cuba, or a romantic beach hideaway. Very nice and thoroughly enjoyable.


    GADGETS- 4 out of 5 Plenty of good gadgets here, whether bungee jumping to get to the job, lasering through metal to save oneself, or just popping open some chilled champagne while driving. Especially memorable is the detonating pen that Boris kept clicking off and on, to his eventually downfall.


    SUPPORTING CAST- 5 out of 5 This Bond film had a great supporting cast who really contributed a lot to the overall satisfaction and enjoyment of this movie.
    First of all, Judi Dench: for my money, the best M, a superb and clever choice - her M is introduced here with a meaty enough role to show the character with some depth. Her dialog with Brosnan shines. Goldeneye is well written, and I think her character was especially well thought out. She is tough, professional, intelligent, unhesitating to go head to head with Bond, yet not all cold calculation. One of the highlights of the movie (and series) for me is Judi Dench's M. Add to that the wonderful array of supporting players: Samantha Bond's thoroughly modern Moneypenny, Desmond's in sparkling form as Q, Robbie Coltrane's very amusing Valentin, the wacky and funny brief part by an off-key Minnie Driver as Irina, the boisterous "so American" presence of Joe Don Baker as Jack Wade, and the brief but satisfying appearance of Tcheky Karyo as the Russian defense minister. This whole movie is extremely well cast. I'd like to elaborate a bit on a few of these characters:
    Moneypenny - I was a little surprised to read that several members did not enjoy Samantha's portrayal. Yes, this was a different Moneypenny; it was a different time/era/culture, and it was time for a change. Some seem to think she was too forward, that it was too big a change. But not for me. Samantha shouldn't have tried to be just like Lois's Moneypenny, and thankfully she was not following along the lines of Caroline Bliss's Moneypenny (a genuinely lovely girl, but her lines and behavior made me cringe). I liked a strong Moneypenny, who flirted with confidence and was much bolder with Bond. I enjoyed her throughout the Brosnan era.
    Q - Desmond has always been a favorite of mine (and many others, I know) and I really liked his chemistry with Brosnan. ("Don't eat that! .... It's my lunch.") I thought he gave a rich performance as Q in every film with Pierce and in Goldeneye he is relaxed, seeming to enjoy himself - fine in every way.
    Valentin - How I wish he could have survived later in the series, because his was one of my favorite supporting characters ever! Robbie Coltrane played Valentin so perfectly, like a fine tuned violin ... or the very best Russian caviar. Perfect timing, amusing, hilarious, restrained at times yet bursting with character. A wonderful performance.


    OVERALL SCORE AND RECOLLECTIONS- A golden outing for a new James Bond. Circa 1995, yet elements from each Bond era permeated this film like a favorite scent.
    Goldeneye was written, it seems to me, to include all the "favorite things" that past Bond movies have had. Coming off a six year hiatus in the series, I felt that the producers were trying to have a little bit of everything. And that in itself could have made the movie fail for sure. But the casting was superb, the writing often sparkles, the plot moves along, and it is an overall very enjoyable, exciting, refreshing at times, reaffirming at times, Bond film. Pierce was fortunate for his first Bond film. Goldeneye was well written, well cast, and the public seemed to be eager for something lighter after License to Kill. I would have personally been very happy to see Dalton again, and that is putting it mildly (would have loved at least 4 from him!). I, unlike so many other Americans, did not ever watch Remington Steele or knew much about Pierce Brosnan at all, before Goldeneye.
    I was a happy Bond fan indeed leaving the theater. Goldeneye was exciting and fun, lighter than the last Bond film we were given yet adventurous, and Pierce erased any doubts for me that he could be Bond. I thought Pierce only got better in TND, and I enjoyed his Bond very much. I so wish he had done a fifth Bond film. Ending on DAD is sadly disappointing as his first two were very good indeed. Goldeneye is one Bond film I enjoy watching again and again.
  • Just wanted to say the last two reviews were both excellent and thought provoking. First things first, time to get this week's review posted.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 3,494
    DIE ANOTHER DAY (2002)-


    The year is 2001. Due to the 40th anniversary of the film series occuring the following year, Wilson and Broccoli decide to delay the usual 2 year cycle they had re-established in order to capitalize on the hype they can get from the event. Neal Purvis and Robert Wade are brought back as writers, and action director Lee Tamahori is hired. The plot opens with Bond and two colleagues surfing into North Korea at dawn seemingly to assassinate Colonel Tan-Sun Moon, who they suspect of trading weapons for African conflict diamonds. After being captured and tortured by the North Koreans for over a year, Bond is exchanged for Moon's right hand man, Zao. Convinced that a British traitor with inside knowledge compromised his mission, but not able to convince M of the same, Bond escapes from custody and goes rogue to prove his theory and regain the trust of MI6 before the villain uses his new superweapon to reunite Korea under control of the North, and bring mass destruction to all who oppose him.


    Production on the 20th adventure began in December 2001 with the PTS being filmed off the north shore of the Hawaiian island of Maui, long known as a surfing haven. Principal shooting starts on January 11, 2002. Much of the movie is filmed in England and Iceland, with Spain doubling for Cuba. The film debuts on November 18, 2002 in London. Budgeted for $142 million, the movie would gross a new high of approximately $432 million worldwide. Critical reviews were almost universally negative in rightly identifying an over reliance on CGI imagery and gadgets over storyline, with many fans to this day calling this film "the worst in the series". Even Sir Roger Moore, normally a positive defender of all things Bond, would state "I thought it just went too far- and that's from me, the first Bond in space! Invisible cars and dodgy CGI footage? Please!"



    THE CAST-


    - Pierce Brosnan as James Bond
    - Halle Berry as Giacinta 'Jinx' Johnson
    - Toby Stephens as Gustav Graves
    - Rick Yune as Zao
    - Rosamund Pike as Miranda Frost
    - Will Yun Lee as Colonel Moon
    - Kenneth Tsang as General Moon
    - Judi Dench as M
    - John Cleese as Q
    - Colin Salmon as Charles Robinson
    - Samantha Bond as Miss Moneypenny
    - Emilio Echevarría as Raoul
    - Ho Yi as Mr. Chang
    - Rachel Grant as Peaceful Fountains of Desire
    - Michael Gorevoy as Vladimir Popov
    - Lawrence Makoare as Mr. Kil
    - Michael Madsen as Damian Falco
    - Madonna as Verity
    - Deborah Moore as the Stewardess



    BOND- In his 4th and final effort, I've noticed that Brosnan devotees have mentioned this performance as one of his better ones. I'm not so sure about that, but then it wouldn't take much to improve on his failure at melodrama in TWINE. What happens here is surely beyond his control as while the first half of the film is easily better than the second act, for every two things done right there are some very questionable things written in starting on the hospital boat. Brosnan's acting is poor here, and the whole fake heart attack followed by his strolling into a fine hotel in hospital garb, dripping wet and still looking like a caveman is antithetical to the class and style of Bond we know. Surely there was some place or contact in the vast city of Hong Kong that he could have gone first to get cleaned up? His Cuba scenes not involving Jinx are the highlight here, but then the movie goes to Iceland and descends into levels of stupidity not seen since 1979, and the remainder of Brosnan's tenure goes right along with it. Since the script sabotaged him once again, it would only be fair to grade him here a little better than TWINE- 3/5


    WOMEN- Oh no, not again. You'd think that by hiring Academy Award winning actress Halle Berry as NSA agent Jacinta "Jinx" Johnson, we would get an improvement on Denise Richards, right? No, just the opposite. I can understand why some folks hate writers Purvis and Wade, the dialogue that includes such literary gems as "Yo Mama", "I think I got the thrust of it" and "I'll always be a jinx to you" are beyond the definition of the "drizzling shits" and absolutely sinks the character no matter whatever her good points may be. The exact opposite of Wai Lin in every possible way including the obvious stunt doubling, Berry's performance is as lackluster as Richards and inexcusable for an Oscar winner. And the fact that Barbara and Michael seriously discussed a spinoff made me severely question what they were thinking and their overall direction of the series. However, the performance of English actress Rosamund Pike as Miranda Frost, a Olympic gold medal winning fencer and deep cover MI6 agent keeping an eye on both the villain and Bond on behalf of M, keeps the category from being a disaster like most of the film. The script doesn't let her down and unlike Elektra King, the surprise element of her character is well written and thus much more effective when revealed, provided of course you hadn't either dozed off or left the theater by then as I had noticed was happening around me. It's a shame Rachel Grant's character can't be really considered in this category, as Bond was definitely planning to make up for some lost time before realizing he was about to be in a moment similar to Istanbul in 1963. Just not enough of this minor character, Pike, or other women to make up too much for the "Berry bad" Jinx character, yet the strengths of Pike and Grant somehow keep this bunch from being worse than the cast of Moonraker and A View To A Kill, even if not by very much- 2/5


    VILLAINS- Another area of the film that Rosamund Pike and her Frost character manages to help. Korean American actor Will Yun Lee is also decent enough for his few opening minutes as the warmongering Colonel Moon, his arrogance and superiority complex comes across well for the short time we see it. Lee's father is a grand master of Tae Kwon Do and makes his living as the owner of a school in California, and it's obvious to someone who can tell that Lee is an accomplished martial artist in his own right. After that, it's a slippery slope down to the compost pile. English stage actor Toby Stephens takes up the Moon role from there as Moon's now genetically altered alter ego Gustav Graves, an overnight millionaire who's made a fortune allegedly from diamond mining in Iceland. Bond soon discovers the diamonds are identical to the same African conflict diamonds Moon was trading weapons for, and becomes suspicious. More horrible dialogue and Stephens' portrayal of the arrogant and smarmy to the extreme Moon/Graves makes him a character you can really hate. For that, Stephens hits the mark and is not as bad as the likes of Lonsdale's portrayal of Hugo Drax, so again Purvis and Wade must share the blame for writing one of the worst villains ever. Another Korean American in Rick Yune portrays Zao, Moon/Graves' sidekick who is also undergoing genetic altering after one of his terror attacks turns the normally friendly Chinese against him. Bond's PTS antics have left him with a diamond studded face that makes him unique, but otherwise the writing does little to establish him as more than the average henchman. Do I need to mention the brilliantly named "Mr.Kill"? Later perhaps, for now I think I've sufficently described this crappy collection- 2/5


    HUMOR- As I've alluded to, the abominable and sophomoric dialogue of Purvis and Wade completely doom this like almost everything else. Other than Moon's line to his now unconscious associate, I genuinely cannot think of a moment where I laughed short of Bond using and abusing an South African bully to get on the Cuban island and at Zao. And making fun of someone in a wheelchair really isn't funny. Jinx is obviously the worst offender, but the script makes almost everyone including Brosnan look terrible- 1/5


    ACTION- In 4 words, CGI killed the action. But let's start with the positives. The sword fight between Bond and Graves is the standout moment, reminiscent of the great swashbuckling efforts from Hollywood's classic age and later films that would follow the formula, as anything not nailed down becomes part of the action. The hovercraft chase is different and has a few good moments, but the silver wetsuits makes the surfing scene look very strange. Most of the remaining action in Cuba is very average and then we get to Iceland with the ridiculous CGI starting with the ice car banging against the cliff, parasailing a tsunami, and the destruction of the ice palace. Bad enough? Nope, because then we get a revamped version of Blofeld's DAF diamond laser given the name of "Icarus" (boring to say the least), a plane flying through it that doesn't explode, more bad dialogue, and finally Bond and Jinx's helicopter escape from the plane that lacks the drama and punch of a similar scene in TLD. Lots of it, yes, but mostly very forgettable- 2/5


    SADISM- Well when the North Koreans are involved, it's pretty much guaranteed they will not be portrayed as warm, kind human beings unless it's a propaganda piece of theirs. This is the same government who told their people during their most recent famine that it was good for them to eat grass and dirt and even more amazing, those poor brainwashed dummies believed them. It starts with Moon's cavalier beating of his anger management therapist who dared to "lecture" him, and is followed by prolonged torture of Bond with scorpion venom, ice baths, and regular beatings plus whatever else they may have been doing that left Bond a physical wreck. Some good deaths, especially those of Graves/Moon and Zao add a bit to this and overall this factor was one of the better parts of the film- 3.5/5


    MUSIC- While not a great leap forward musically, I can say that this compilation was definitely an improvement on TWINE although you'd never guess that based on the title theme, performed by club music icon Madonna and co-written by her and French electronica composer Mirwais. This dud even by Madonna standards (which for me are mostly trite and low to begin with) heads into GoldenEye territory almost immediately and is absolutely the very worst title song in Bond history. Arnold never uses it once and while it lends to a lack of musical identity, it's just as well he left this putrid piece of pop out. The only Bond title song I cannot sit through to date, and one worth hitting the mute button for while enjoying the credit sequence, which is brilliantly unique in the fact that it moves the film's plot along. It still makes me wish that Arnold's planned "I Will Return" was used, but it was unfinished and then shelved when the above abortion was chosen. Are there good things to say about the soundtrack? Yes, more than you'd think since most don't revisit the film often enough to hear them. In the opener "On The Beach" , I really liked the 007 theme on the keyboard where Bond looks at the diamonds while setting the C4 bomb. "Some Kind Of Hero?" also uses similar sounds yet still carries a very Barryesque and Bondian feel to it that reminds me a lot of the master. As good as this one is, the standout track though for me has to be "Welcome To Cuba" with it's salsa beat complete with brass, piano, and percussion. You can really believe you're dancing in Cuba and I'm sure fans of this style of music not familiar with Bond would enjoy this very much. I also liked the Gregorian style choir in both "Icarus" and "Whiteout", although the latter brings up electronica there's some nice Thunderball brass in this one to like. The long piece "Antonov" is actually very good for me, I like the piano bit although this was recycled from TWINE. In the romance department, a little improvement from TWINE but nothing compared to what would come in the next film."A Touch Of Frost" used in his love scene with Miranda has a nice piano arrangement but the better stuff is in the finale "Going Down Together", and all too brief. Also used to my enjoyment is the Clash's "London Calling" which I feel fits Bond's return to England very nicely in this instance. In summation, there's things both very good and really bad about the soundtrack, so it winds up as sort of average overall yet firmly the middle of Arnold's three Brosnan-era efforts- 3/5


    LOCATIONS- I truly loved the Spanish locations and sets that doubled for Cuba, this was really very good stuff. The cigar factory scenes, complete with a lector reading the newspaper, was dead on for what you'd see in real life and added to the realism. The Cuban revolution artwork on Isla de Los Organos added even more and the outdoor restaurant/bar was classic Caribbean as well. The ice palace in Iceland is also fairly impressive. England is just England in this case and doesn't particularly show off the country in the same manner of efforts such as TWINE and Skyfall, although I did like the way station for spies out in the cold. Nothing to complain about here, and actually the best part of the film- 4/5


    GADGETS- New Q John Cleese (I think I liked "R" better) provides Bond with some new toys, although it's a personal taste thing as far as liking them. First up is a UHF ring that shatters all types of glass, American supplied Switchblade one person planes, and two tricked out cars. Bond's Aston Martin Vanquish is invisible on a press of a button and fully loaded, although we see later it has a few bugs. Some folks can embrace this whole idea but for me it goes too far like most of the film. Zao's green Jaguar is also full of weapons. And then there's the too heavy handed tribute to the anniversary and Desmond Llewellyn where we see lots of now old and classic gadgets like the Thunderball jet pack and Octopussy alligator sub, one of which in the TB underwater breather Bond makes use of in Iceland. Graves has his 100,000 volt zapper. I think Skyfall did a better job in paying tribute with less- 3/5


    SUPPORTING CAST- A mixed bag ranging from excellent to cringeworthy. On the good side, Chinese actor Kenneth Tsang is very solid as General Moon and I enjoyed his take on a moderate North Korean looking to be a sensible human being, as opposed to a robot like most of his colleagues. Another Chinese actor, Ho Yi, plays Mr. Chang, a ranking Chinese agent whose cover is managing a Hong Kong hotel. He strikes a deal with Bond to get even with Zao and of course his role is enhanced by the lovely Ms. Grant as "Peaceful Fountains Of Desire", another Chinese agent working for him as a hotel masseuse. I'm sorry, but I have to laugh a little at her name and get a bit crusty, as I certainly from personal experience am unfamiliar with "fountains of desire" that are "peaceful". The standout here is Mexican actor Emilio Echevarría as Raoul, a Havana cigar factory manager who is a "sleeper", meaning that he is willing to help a British agent as long as he doesn't have to betray his government to do so. Once he realizes why Bond is there, he is invaluable and his scenes with Brosnan are the best in the film. Mixed reviews go to Judi Dench as M, John Cleese as "Q", Colin Salmon as Charles Robinson, and Russian actor Michael Gorevoy as Vladimir Popov, Gustav Graves' personal scientist. All just average. Also nice to see Sir Roger's only daughter Deborah Moore as Bond's stewardess on the flight back to London. Then we get the bad, and I do mean bad. Michael Madsen as NSA boss Damian Falco is a guy you'd like to see killed, and he's a horrible hack actor. Even more of a hack is Madonna as fencing instructor Verity. Giving her the title song was offensive enough, but anyone in their right mind knows she's a terrible actress perhaps equal to Denise Richards in monotone and general annoyance that just makes a bad movie even worse. Lawrence Makaore as "Mr.Kill" is just the icing on the cake, if ever a character was aptly named it's him because he kills the movie even more. And the cherry on top of the cake? Yep, it's Samantha Bond in her final appearance as Miss Moneypenny. All along I've seen the wonderful legacy of Lois Maxwell slowly reduced to smutty, ill fitting, and mostly potty mouthed dialogue that made me care less and less about the character. But when her final scene shows her on top of a desk, fantasizing about Bond via a virtual training device properly used earlier, the character descends into someone more recognizable from a bad porn film. This is no longer my Moneypenny, it's an insult to Lois and all her class and years of hard work entertaining us. For the record I'd like to say that I have never blamed Samantha herself for any of this, it was a prominent and paying job and she may have had objections over the years to what was done to the character. I maintain that she had good chemistry with Pierce and was fine in this regard. But shame on Purvis and Wade for writing this garbage and shame on the producers for allowing this, because I honestly have to say that when the first virtual training scene showed a dead Moneypenny with a bullet to the head, I actually didn't mind and that's something I never wanted say, let alone see happen to a beloved character I've always enjoyed- 2.5/5


    OVERALL SCORE AND RECOLLECTIONS- Despite impending inner feelings of doom based on a single listen to the title song, this was the 40th anniversary of Bond and with an extra year to prepare I had no reason not to expect EON to produce a very solid if not excellent movie. An Oscar winning actress had been cast. And Bond movies that followed a subpar effort had never failed to improve upon that. So admittedly, after securing my mother for babysitting duties on opening weekend, my wife and brother and I headed out into the snow and to the theater with high expectations. And what followed was 2 hours and 7 minutes of mostly agonizing embarrassment that made me want to be as invisible as Bond's car, and almost wish I had stayed home and broke my still intact streak since 1969 of not missing a Bond film in the theater before it went to VCR/DVD or free TV. It was, something I never thought I'd say, even worse than Moonraker and truly the ultimate nadir of the series to this date. Some folks like to use the acronym of "DUD" rather than "DAD" which I can appreciate, but personally I prefer "DOE" as in "dying of embarassment" for what was perpetrated on true Bond fans, not to mention the money I wasted that evening. It is truly astounding and mind boggling that this film made the kind of money it did, obviously there were a lot of casual moviegoers who appreciated this mostly steaming heaping of cinematic monkey poop while fitting the lowest common denominator at the same time. The one positive? Broccoli and Wilson are obviously forced in the wake of 9/11 and the terrible reviews to reconsider the now too over the top direction of the series, which would lead to wholesale and positive changes that would end the tenure of Brosnan, Cleese, and Samantha Bond, and put the Q and Moneypenny characters on the shelf for the next 10 years. This most miserable entry of all to date bottoms out with a total of 26 points, for an average of 2.6
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    So, Sir Henry, did you like DAD or not?
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2013 Posts: 13,355
    Rip it to shreds guys. Really, nothing but the bottom place will do for this film.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 3,494
    So, Sir Henry, did you like DAD or not?

    I LOVED it- writing the review I mean ;)
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Rip it to shreds guys. Really, nothing but the bottom place will do for this film.

    I don't think any of that will be a problem, I can't think of a single one of us who's expressed anything short of contempt and loathing. I wasn't completely sure if MR was worse but after viewing the film again and writing my review, I'm now positive DAD is.
  • My unofficial collection of thoughts...

    So I loved GE when I first saw it and was pleasantly surprised by Brosnan - he was not the wimpy, punning second coming of Roger Moore that I had feared. When TND came out I had a vague feeling of disappointment, something I had never felt after a Bond film before. Then with TWINE, something new entirely - embarrassment. I actually cringed at how bad Brosnan's performance was.

    So with DAD there was nowhere to go but up. There was a lot of excitement before DAD's release, and it was amazing to see how popular Bond was again (imagine my shock at SF!). I went opening night with a friend who was a big fan, and the audience was literally buzzing with excitement. It was a very young crowd (we lived close to the university) and it was mostly 18 to 25 year olds. There were several guys in tuxes and several women in evening gowns! I had not seen an audience this excited for a film in years.

    So then when DAD started it started out well, but got sillier and sillier. But here's the thing - I really enjoyed it! I'm the guy who despised Moore as the "anti-Bond" when I was a kid and found his films too silly and juvenile even when I was 13. So what happened?

    Quite simply, I got caught up in the excitement of the crowd. With every bad joke the audience groaned and laughed - but with the film, not at it. I felt like I finally "got" the appeal of Moore - it wasn't a betrayal of what Bond is, just a more fun and silly interpretation that allowed people to have a good time. I had never experienced a crowd loving a Bond film this much, and to be surrounded by hundreds of people enjoying the film so much - applause at several points in the film - it was intoxicating.

    So when the film came out on DVD I watched it again on my own and was shocked at how I didn't enjoy it at all and how everything fell so flat. That was the last time I saw it until a few weeks ago, and it was so much worse than I remembered it. I'll give more details later, but I felt like a cult member suddenly becoming deprogrammed! The funny thing is, that is still the most engaged I've ever seen an audience at a Bond film...
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