SirHenryLeeChaChing's For Original Fans - Favorite Moments In NTTD (spoilers)

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  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Naturally! And also watched out for octopus and barracuda at that point, eh?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,790
    Naturally! And also watched out for octopus and barracuda at that point, eh?

    No, just moray eels...
  • Posts: 1,917
    A thought struck me last night when I was leafing through my well-worn copy of John Brosnan's updated version of James Bond in the Cinema and of all things the copyright of 1981. When it comes to looking back on Bond fandom in the 1980s, we see '83 for the Battle of the Bonds and '87 for the 25th anniversary and a new Bond taking over as the significant times. No question they were. But I want to give 1981 some love as it was also a pretty big Bond year, especially for me as this was still early in my Bond fandom.

    Spring of '81 started it all with the release of John Gardener's License Renewed, the first new original Bond novel in 13 years. There were articles on the comeback in several leading U.S. magazines. It would lead to a new original Bond novel for about every year for the next 20 or so years.

    Foremost in '81 was the release of FYEO and a return to a more down-to-earth Bond adventure after MR took the series to its outrageous limits and was well received by critics and fans at the box office amid strong competition from films like Raiders of the Lost Ark and Superman II. So we had new Bond in the book stores and new Bond in theaters.

    Although there wasn't a ton of merchandising as there had been with MR, FYEO saw the first significant return to Bond in comics form, at least in the U.S., with the Marvel Comics FYEO adaptation. We got both a magazine-size, a paperback version and later a 2-issue regular comics version. Two years later, OP got a magazine adaptation.

    Also that year, the U.S. James Bond Fan Club put out the first collected Bond comic strip collection with 3 stories.

    That fall, after many years, we got the first significant book on the making of the Bond series, Steven Jay Rubin's The James Bond Films. I spent hours with that book and eventually read the cover off it.

    Later still, the above mentioned Brosnan book updated through MR came out and it and the Rubin books complemented each other. Now we have countless books on the Bond series, too many probably, but these were the only real outlet outside of fanzines to get this type of information. This was before VCRs were common and you could really only catch a Bond film when the ABC network showed one made the Brosnan book valuable in recapping the films' narrative while peppering in his comments.

    What was also significant was these books also sometimes criticized the films, especially Brosnan. It opened my young eyes in that I thought the films were mostly just accepted as great because they were popular.

    I even started my own Bond project that year, a scrapbook, back when that meant collecting clippings from magazines and newspapers. I cut every newspaper ad for FYEO or reviews, some with the original thong version and others in the hot pants version. I kept up with the scrapbook throughout most of the decade and eventually just compiled everything into a clipping archive, a couple of bins worth now residing in a storage unit.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited August 2021 Posts: 17,790
    Great anecdotes, @BT3366 !
  • Seconded. I don't think FYEO gets enough love in these circles. It's one of my favorite Moore entries.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,790
    Seconded. I don't think FYEO gets enough love in these circles. It's one of my favorite Moore entries.

    If it had a proper Barry score it would be my solid favourite. As it is it's one of his best.
  • Posts: 1,859
    Birdleson wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Seconded. I don't think FYEO gets enough love in these circles. It's one of my favorite Moore entries.

    If it had a proper Barry score it would be my solid favourite. As it is it's one of his best.

    It still wouldn't be my favorite, but that would be probably enough to push it into my Top Ten (at the expense of YOLT and GE).

    A Barry score would have helped but there is no getting around the utterly lackluster ending once inside the monastery. That said, FYEO was such a breath of fresh air after suffering though Moonraker.
  • delfloria wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Seconded. I don't think FYEO gets enough love in these circles. It's one of my favorite Moore entries.

    If it had a proper Barry score it would be my solid favourite. As it is it's one of his best.

    It still wouldn't be my favorite, but that would be probably enough to push it into my Top Ten (at the expense of YOLT and GE).

    A Barry score would have helped but there is no getting around the utterly lackluster ending once inside the monastery. That said, FYEO was such a breath of fresh air after suffering though Moonraker.

    Which brings up an interesting question: do we score some films differently than we really ought to, just because of the circumstances behind them? Plenty of us have a sentimental attachment to the first Bond film we ever saw, and that's understandable -- but does it go even father than that? Do some folks give higher marks to GE than it really deserves, just because they had waited so long after LTK that any new Bond film was just a godsend? Do others unfairly downgrade QoS simply because it wasn't up to the standard set by CR? Certainly, there are legitimate reasons to prefer any one film over another -- but which of these judgments are justifiable and which are just capricious? @delfloria critiques the "lackluster ending" of FYEO, while I was completely amused by 007's summation, "that's detante, comrade." I'd say both opinions are justifiable.
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Seconded. I don't think FYEO gets enough love in these circles. It's one of my favorite Moore entries.

    If it had a proper Barry score it would be my solid favourite. As it is it's one of his best.

    It still wouldn't be my favorite, but that would be probably enough to push it into my Top Ten (at the expense of YOLT and GE).

    My own Top Ten has 3 Connerys, 2 Moores (and yes, FYEO is one of them) 1 each from Lazzer, Dalton, and Brosnan...and 2 from Craig. No telling what I'll do if NTTD is great enough to impinge on that established ranking...
  • Posts: 1,859
    delfloria wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Seconded. I don't think FYEO gets enough love in these circles. It's one of my favorite Moore entries.

    If it had a proper Barry score it would be my solid favourite. As it is it's one of his best.

    It still wouldn't be my favorite, but that would be probably enough to push it into my Top Ten (at the expense of YOLT and GE).

    A Barry score would have helped but there is no getting around the utterly lackluster ending once inside the monastery. That said, FYEO was such a breath of fresh air after suffering though Moonraker.

    Which brings up an interesting question: do we score some films differently than we really ought to, just because of the circumstances behind them? Plenty of us have a sentimental attachment to the first Bond film we ever saw, and that's understandable -- but does it go even father than that? Do some folks give higher marks to GE than it really deserves, just because they had waited so long after LTK that any new Bond film was just a godsend? Do others unfairly downgrade QoS simply because it wasn't up to the standard set by CR? Certainly, there are legitimate reasons to prefer any one film over another -- but which of these judgments are justifiable and which are just capricious? @delfloria critiques the "lackluster ending" of FYEO, while I was completely amused by 007's summation, "that's detante, comrade." I'd say both opinions are justifiable.

    I love the showdown with Gogol but it's the action between that and Bond's arrival at the monastery buildings that leaves me cold. Yes, there is something to be said about the circumstance around the arrival of particular Bond films. Years and content matter. I found QoS an interesting entry because it almost felt like what the film series would have been like had Golfinger had never existed and set a new tone for the series.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited August 2021 Posts: 17,790
    Which brings up an interesting question: do we score some films differently than we really ought to, just because of the circumstances behind them? Plenty of us have a sentimental attachment to the first Bond film we ever saw, and that's understandable --
    My first Bond was DAF, and for years that was my standard (outrageous & dark humour)- after I read the novels TLD took its place.
    but does it go even father than that? Do some folks give higher marks to GE than it really deserves, just because they had waited so long after LTK that any new Bond film was just a godsend?
    For us longtime fans, yes, I think. And because it was something of a reboot, it had to introduce a whole new generation to Bond, as evidenced by some of Bond's more cringe-worthy expository lines concerning himself.
    Do others unfairly downgrade QoS simply because it wasn't up to the standard set by CR?
    Again, yes. CR was a very big movie, and QOS was a small, tight coda to it, almost like a short story. I enjoy it immensely as such.
    Certainly, there are legitimate reasons to prefer any one film over another -- but which of these judgments are justifiable and which are just capricious?
    Capricious? That'd be when anyone says either MR or SF are top Bonds. ;)
    @delfloria critiques the "lackluster ending" of FYEO, while I was completely amused by 007's summation, "that's detante, comrade." I'd say both opinions are justifiable.
    True, but I side with those that don't need a king-sized explosion to be the conclusion of a Bond movies' confrontation. Though I do enjoy a good ball of fire as much as the next fellow....

  • Posts: 1,859
    I don't need a good ball of fire but I am partial to a really good mano a mano fight to cap off a Bond adventure. FYEO had room for one and waisted the opportunity. This is one of my favorite peeves about Skyfall as well. Having Bond stab the villain in the back when a final dust up between two physically match adversaries could have easily been included brought the film down a notch for me. It would be like Bond immediately stabbing Grant in FRWL before the fight even started. As said, this all goes back to the Bonds we were first introduced to and how they set our expectations.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,790
    delfloria wrote: »
    I don't need a good ball of fire but I am partial to a really good mano a mano fight to cap off a Bond adventure. FYEO had room for one and waisted the opportunity. This is one of my favorite peeves about Skyfall as well. Having Bond stab the villain in the back when a final dust up between two physically match adversaries could have easily been included brought the film down a notch for me. It would be like Bond immediately stabbing Grant in FRWL before the fight even started. As said, this all goes back to the Bonds we were first introduced to and how they set our expectations.
    Yes, I see your point and I agree for the most part. But then, as mentioned above somewhere, having Trevelyan alive after such a fall just so he could grimace at 10 tons of steel crashing down on him was more than a little over the top. So between that & FYEO I choose FYEO. My inner 11 year old does not agree, btw. ;)
  • Posts: 1,917
    delfloria wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Seconded. I don't think FYEO gets enough love in these circles. It's one of my favorite Moore entries.

    If it had a proper Barry score it would be my solid favourite. As it is it's one of his best.

    It still wouldn't be my favorite, but that would be probably enough to push it into my Top Ten (at the expense of YOLT and GE).

    A Barry score would have helped but there is no getting around the utterly lackluster ending once inside the monastery. That said, FYEO was such a breath of fresh air after suffering though Moonraker.

    Which brings up an interesting question: do we score some films differently than we really ought to, just because of the circumstances behind them? Plenty of us have a sentimental attachment to the first Bond film we ever saw, and that's understandable -- but does it go even father than that? Do some folks give higher marks to GE than it really deserves, just because they had waited so long after LTK that any new Bond film was just a godsend? Do others unfairly downgrade QoS simply because it wasn't up to the standard set by CR? Certainly, there are legitimate reasons to prefer any one film over another -- but which of these judgments are justifiable and which are just capricious? @delfloria critiques the "lackluster ending" of FYEO, while I was completely amused by 007's summation, "that's detante, comrade." I'd say both opinions are justifiable.
    That's a great question. I immediately think of the current popular one in fan circles that damn DAF for not being "the proper sequel to OHMSS it deserved." I can't recall anybody taking YOLT down for not being like the novel.

    GE was highly-lauded just because it was what a lot of people, at least at the time, considered a proper Bond film and Brosnan was more of a hybrid Bond reflecting what they were used to as opposed to Dalton's take. I didn't agree in '95 and still don't. Okay film but overrated. QoS a lot of the same. I liked it from first viewing and only have slight reservations of not living up to CR, but the friend who went with us was disappointed it didn't hit those heights.

    Another view along these lines: There are a couple of films that are among the most popular in the series with fans, critics and the general public, GF and SF, that I don't think as highly of as the majority. There's another poster here who often makes the claim on such that that view comes just from wanting to dislike what is popular, which I strongly disagree with. Both are excellent films with their obvious strong points, but as a whole they just don't do it for me and I will counter with what I think are valid points as to why I don't value them as highly.


  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,790
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Another view along these lines: There are a couple of films that are among the most popular in the series with fans, critics and the general public, GF and SF, that I don't think as highly of as the majority. There's another poster here who often makes the claim on such that that view comes just from wanting to dislike what is popular, which I strongly disagree with. Both are excellent films with their obvious strong points, but as a whole they just don't do it for me and I will counter with what I think are valid points as to why I don't value them as highly.

    Hey pal, say what you want to about Skyfall, but it was better than Moonraker.
    ;)
  • Posts: 1,917
    chrisisall wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Another view along these lines: There are a couple of films that are among the most popular in the series with fans, critics and the general public, GF and SF, that I don't think as highly of as the majority. There's another poster here who often makes the claim on such that that view comes just from wanting to dislike what is popular, which I strongly disagree with. Both are excellent films with their obvious strong points, but as a whole they just don't do it for me and I will counter with what I think are valid points as to why I don't value them as highly.

    Hey pal, say what you want to about Skyfall, but it was better than Moonraker.
    ;)

    Maybe I should move this over to controversial opinions: I have a lot more fun watching MR than SF. SF is the better film, no question, but not a better time watching it. Give me the double-taking pigeons and drunks over Tennyson readings with overly dramatic music.

    I will now duck for cover.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,790
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I will now duck for cover.
    No need sir, I was just messing about. FWIW they are the two Bond movies I never watch anymore.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,790
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Anything is okay on this thread except for being a jerk, a trouble maker or for being aggressively confrontational.
    I've been known for transgressing on all three counts from time to time. Hopefully my gentle poking with humour will not be confused with any of that these days. ;)
  • BT3366 wrote: »

    Another view along these lines: There are a couple of films that are among the most popular in the series with fans, critics and the general public, GF and SF, that I don't think as highly of as the majority.


    You're totally entitled to your opinion. Both of those are in my Top Ten but I can certainly recognize that each has some flaws. I also recognize that MR can be loads of fun to watch if you just hit the *PAUSE* button on your brain...
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I will now duck for cover.
    No need sir, I was just messing about. FWIW they are the two Bond movies I never watch anymore.

    Didn't Sir Sean teach you to never say never watch anymore?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,790
    chrisisall wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I will now duck for cover.
    No need sir, I was just messing about. FWIW they are the two Bond movies I never watch anymore.

    Didn't Sir Sean teach you to never say never watch anymore?

    Actually, I never watch that one anymore either...
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I will now duck for cover.
    No need sir, I was just messing about. FWIW they are the two Bond movies I never watch anymore.

    Didn't Sir Sean teach you to never say never watch anymore?

    Actually, I never watch that one anymore either...

    On that one in particular, I can't say that I blame you!
  • Posts: 1,859
    Satisfied or not with GF is a prime example of when you were introduced to Bond. I know the short comings of GF very well but it will always remain, to me, THE CLASSIC BOND FILM because I saw it first run and experienced the '60s spy craze that followed. It changed the world and its effects can be seen up until today with the inclusion of the DB-5 in NTTD.
  • GF is indeed THE classic Bond film... and the '60s spy craze was an entertainment phenomenon unlike any other. The closest modern equivalent is --perhaps-- the superhero sagas being explored in current television and movie offerings. And interestingly enough, the most successful of today's super-sagas, the Marvel universe, also has its roots in the '60s. Additionally, as one could probably guess from my handle on this forum, I'm also pretty fond of the music of the '60s. Is it just my imagination -- or was the pop culture of the '60s pretty darned awesome?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,790
    Is it just my imagination -- or was the pop culture of the '60s pretty darned awesome?
    The 60's also gave us Star Trek & The Prisoner. Good times (for entertainment, not so much for real life...).
  • Posts: 1,859
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Is it just my imagination -- or was the pop culture of the '60s pretty darned awesome?
    The 60's also gave us Star Trek & The Prisoner. Good times (for entertainment, not so much for real life...).

    And obviously I'll add "The Man from U.N.C.L.E."........................ Which Ian Fleming contributed to.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,790
    delfloria wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Is it just my imagination -- or was the pop culture of the '60s pretty darned awesome?
    The 60's also gave us Star Trek & The Prisoner. Good times (for entertainment, not so much for real life...).

    And obviously I'll add "The Man from U.N.C.L.E."........................ Which Ian Fleming contributed to.

    Yes! But I kinda liked The Girl From U.N.C.L.E. more... *CRUSH* (Not to be confused with THRUSH).
  • edited August 2021 Posts: 3,566
    chrisisall wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Is it just my imagination -- or was the pop culture of the '60s pretty darned awesome?
    The 60's also gave us Star Trek & The Prisoner. Good times (for entertainment, not so much for real life...).

    And obviously I'll add "The Man from U.N.C.L.E."........................ Which Ian Fleming contributed to.

    Yes! But I kinda liked The Girl From U.N.C.L.E. more... *CRUSH* (Not to be confused with THRUSH).

    Oh, beyond question: U.N.C.L.E. was one of the high water marks of the '60s spy craze, and I too was quite enamored of Stephanie Powers as April Dancer... but far less interested in Noel Harrison's character (whose name, quite frankly, I had completely forgotten until just now. Thank you for the reminder, Wikipedia.) Truth be told, I begrudged the series every moment Mark Slate (a forgettable name if ever there was one) was onscreen without Miss Dancer. (Maybe his first name should have been "Blank.")
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,787
    Slate was a dead end. Not disagreeing.

  • Posts: 1,859
    chrisisall wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Is it just my imagination -- or was the pop culture of the '60s pretty darned awesome?
    The 60's also gave us Star Trek & The Prisoner. Good times (for entertainment, not so much for real life...).

    And obviously I'll add "The Man from U.N.C.L.E."........................ Which Ian Fleming contributed to.

    Yes! But I kinda liked The Girl From U.N.C.L.E. more... *CRUSH* (Not to be confused with THRUSH).

    I understand the crush on Steph but the series itself was......................TERRIBLE.
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