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Even if Blofeld then realized after talking to actual Saxby, that he had been played, there was still reason to assassinate Whyte, so off goes Burt. Blofeld being Blofeld probably didn't care if Burt survived his mission either.
This question is reminiscent of where was Oddjob hiding, before he knocked out Bond and killed Jill. We are not actually told, but we can speculate. Same with how did Tiffany know to follow Blofeld-in-drag.
Guy Hamilton didn't sweat these details it seems. We are left to fill in the blanks, but they are fillable.
That would have been a lot of fun, although from my limited experience with hanging around film sets, things do move at a laborious pace. But if one was a Bond-fan already, circa 1971, then that would have been very exciting I think.
As for Plenty winding up dead. The deleted scenes do flesh it out in more detail, but even without them, Bond fills in the blank, when he says "Poor Plenty must have stumbled in looking for you" Presumably Wint and Kidd killed her, when they came to kill Tiffany.
They would have known the difference between the two girls, as they did know what Tiffany looked like, but these guys are killers. It's consistent with their nature, that they would kill Plenty too, if only for her being a material witness to their presence at the house.
Again Hamilton leaves us to fill in the blanks, but the blanks are always fillable.
You figure the Plenty scenes were chopped partially to keep the movie a manageable length. As it was, the film comes in just over two hours.
===DAF is clearly intended as the follow-up to OHMSS. It's not a coincidence that the film opens with Bond on the warpath, tracking Blofeld, finding him and welcoming him to hell.
I love the opening to DAF, in fact its my favourite pts, but I love the film period. The whole dark-campy vibe really does it for me. Hamilton is my favourite Bond director. Anyway I digress....
The DAF opening, obviously isn't satisfying to many who were looking for something else coming off OHMSS, but its pretty obvious what was going on. The filmmakers were looking to quickly tie that OHMSS loose-end up, and move on with their new film, which was clearly an attempt at re-capturing the brassier, more fanciful Goldfinger tone.
OHMSS did decent box-office but was not a big success by Bond standards, so as we all know, there was an attempt to shake things up with the new film.
Connery, in that TV intv posted on the home page, even allows that OHMSS "poor" performance gave him the leverage he needed to get (extort) the deal he wanted from the producers.
Maybe I'm just easy but as for the first 7 films, I have no quibbles with any of them. They all work brilliantly IMO. I enjoy each and every one of them as stand-alones, which is pretty much what they are. The continuity from film to film is pretty loose.
Now that mention it, the killers would probably kill Plenty but why not wait for Tiffany to show up and dispatch her? Maybe they had another pressing engagement...
I guess the writer, Mankiewicz felt she had to die to touch all the bases of the formula (sacrificial lamb) anyway, the editing just really messed it up. They could have deleted the scene of her body in the pool altogether. The movies have been sticking to their formula and touching all the bases but it would not have hurt to not have a sacrificial lamb in DAF altogether...
Another plot hole: When Bond is given the diamonds after the cremation of Franks...if the diamonds were fake, then why did they not burn up with Frank's body? Let me guess, Slumber took them out before they burned the body. Of course. Whatever....
If Bond is put in the coffin by Wint and Kidd as part of the secret shutting down of the pipeline then how did slumber and Shady know he was in there? After all Shady was Wint and Kidds next target.
Personally, I'm delighted to hear the explanations to these perceived plot glitches.
I recently rewatched the film and it really is sloppy, which takes away alot of the fun. And Blofeld in drags just doesn't work. But on the whole, especially because of the good music, I do somehow like that film. Oh wait, it's a Bond-film. that does it of course ;-)
In fact at first blush, most I think would believe that the diamonds were salvaged from the ashes. I know that I did. That seems to be what's going on, but it does make more sense that Slumber retrieved them ahead of time.
We also have to assume that Slumber and Shady were both in on the scheme to kill Franks/Bond after the diamonds had been retrieved. Shady apparently didn't realize that he might be the next target.
In fact this is re-inforced later as he's quite cordial with Wint and Kidd, when they visit him at the casino. That is until Wint puts a bullet in his brainpan, a scene which is included only in the deleted-scenes extras. I much appreciated finally seeing this killing of Shady in the dvd extras, years later.
In the original print Shady's death was rather glossed over. The deleted scene finally gives insight as to just what went down with Shady. I figure it must have got axed for time constraints, much like the Plenty scenes.
@OMSS69 wrote: "I guess the writer, Mankiewicz felt she had to die to touch all the bases of the formula (sacrificial lamb) anyway, the editing just really messed it up. They could have deleted the scene of her body in the pool altogether. The movies have been sticking to their formula and touching all the bases but it would not have hurt to not have a sacrificial lamb in DAF altogether..."
I also found the Plenty death scene rather jarring. I think you are right with the bases-touching. Girls do die in the Hamilton films especially. I think the film could have done quite well without Plenty being killed, but the scene is there for schock value, and as a nod to the Bond trope that the world of 007 can be a dangerous place for pretty girls.
I think this is key point. Dramatic shifts in the film's tone are signalled by Barry's very pervasive scoring and are key to ramping the tension back-up, in what is maybe a campier, but still very dangerous 007 adventure.
The film transitions from lighter to ominous and back several times, utilizing Barry's scoring for maximum dramatic effect. Plenty's death I think was used to facilitate another transition, back to the grimmer reality of what was at stake, after the less intense goings-on at the Circus Circus.
Not only Tiffany, but we the viewer get slapped back to the dangerous reality of the drama unfolding, with the sight of Plenty's body floating in the pool.
I think that is one of the charms of Bond; the series ability to combine camp and escapist scenarios, but in a palpably dangerous setting as well.
Compare with TV Batman which was pure camp, as were the Bond imitators such as Helm and Flint.
Blofeld's rocket base in YOLT for example, does not work unless both Pleasance and Connery play the whole scenario with requisite gravitas, for maxiumum tension and suspense, which they do. Any wink-wink though, and we are suddenly watching the latest adventure of Derek Flint.
DAF and the Hamilton films are among my favourite Bonds, because of the brazen attempt to push the fantasy/danger equation.
Hamilton ups the ante somewhat from the Young films, which is not everyone's cup of tea obviously.
The Young films are arguably better, being closer to the Fleming tone, but I do like the way the Hamilton films attempted to push the envelope on the Bond formula.
I think Hamilton went all-in with DAF, because he had Sean to ground the whole thing. Connery's malevolent presence helps keep things real.
The Hamilton formula didn't work quite as well with Rog I don't think, as Rog couldn't deliver the danger the same way Sean could, but it does appear that Hamilton took pains to keep Rog grounded. ie "Rog we're having fun here. This is escapist fantasy, but it's also the world of 007, which is also a very dangerous world."
That's what I've always liked about Bond - the mix of fantasy and palpable danger.
It goes right back to DN's lair.
Both the TV Avengers and the better Uncle seasons, IMO also caught this vibe, but not with the same punch as big-screen Bond.
Bond is the original.
This take is shown on the extras.
So if they got it right once, why couldn't they have done it again, but this time without the crowds ruining the shot?
To do the shot again on short notice they had to get a driving team in from a different country, France I believe, who happened to drive on the other side of the car. They could not get the original team back as they didn't realise the take was unusable until late in the day. I think this is all on the extras too somewhere.
The worst thing about the insert, is that it's not even terribly clear what its supposed to be showing, so the car still looks like it came out on the wrong side.
The moonbuggy wheel scene is hard to spot, but it is there.
Closer to now, the most grevious continuity error in SF I think is M's disappearing purse, during her visit with Mallory, but even that isn't terribly noticeable, until it's pointed out.
"Named after your father no doubt." Bond to Plenty
"Keep tooting on that honker you're gonna get a shot in the mouth" Tiffany to Dr. Metz
"Go blow up your pants" Tiffany to the obnoxious brat
Did a check: Gary Dubin is his name. He's 54 . He does have quite a long list of film credits on IMDB. He was even a well experienced child-actor prior to landing the role of "boy" on DAF.
The experience doesn't surprise. He did deliver his line with much gusto and self assurance. His performance no doubt prompted St. John's inspired delivery of the, "Blow up your pants" retort.
Good actors have a way of lifting each other's performances. ;)
Dubin btw went on to feature regularly in the Partridge Family and played in Jaws 2.
Most recently he can be seen in Jizzmaster 2.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0239295/
That's my research tidbit. Maybe @delfloria has more actual on-location nuggets.
You were paying closer attention than me. But I'm so in thrall with the film, that such stuff goes right past me. I honestly never noticed the car emerging on the wrong wheels either until I read about it. Great movies do that. They just pull you along. :)
Cute; you called Jill a good actor. =))
This is easily the best Bond site on the entire internet, no question. I wouldn't be anywhere else, everything I could want as a fan is right here. And I'd like to think that this thread is one of the very best continuous ones on this site. We just went over 1000 posts recently and I admit that when I created it, I never dreamed it would go this long and get so many compliments. Now I find myself trying to come up with ideas to keep it going, as there are only so many movies to review.
@Timmer makes a point regarding the tie-in to OHMSS that I've long thought myself. The PTS does show a revenge driven Bond out to kill Blofeld and when he thinks he has, it's then business as usual. That I feel should be acknowledged. The problem with all of it that I have is that unlike the events of QOS, Tracy's death is glossed over and as a result, entirely unsatisfying and somewhat insulting. That's what makes QOS a better film for me. And there's more. Irma Bunt, the person who actually pulls the trigger, is never mentioned. I really wanted to see her killed. Tracy's name never comes up again until we see her gravestone in FYEO. And when Bond sees Blofeld alive in the flesh, none of it is brought up. It makes no sense as a man who loved his wife as much as Bond did, and to me it hurts the film nearly as much as all the campiness and nearly continuous plot holes. I think good old "Wanky Mitz" did an excellent job with LALD's script and I like the TMWTGG script a bit better that the DAF script as well. But then, we'll never know what he would have written as there is no doubt he was told by EON at the very least to ignore OHMSS as much as possible. Some other thoughts-
1. The glaring issue of the car stunt is well explained in the UDVD features and despite the unintentional gaffes, it's an amazing piece of stunt work that I loved as a kid and still appreciate. These things happen.
2. I also assumed that Slumber was in on all of it and also felt that he recovered the diamonds from Franks' remains. I didn't have trouble with that and felt it was fairly explanatory, even as a kid. What I did find a bit off is that if everyone involved in the plot short of necessary personnel like Metz, Wint, and Kidd were to die, why was Slumber as part of the "chain of death" not part of the killing spree?
Finally, with @Beatles away and no SF reviews from @OHMSS69 and @NicNac on the board, there is no rating update coming this week.
This is very true and I've been on literally all of the main four sites but none of them can compare to MI6 Community.
I really want to OHMSS69's and NicNac's reviews. And I look forward to comparing my own personal rankings with our group's overall rankings. It will not match but maybe be close in places.
I inserted "read" in your 2nd paragraph Ms. Teacher. I do that all the time and almost always have to go back and make an edit.
As much as I love this site, it is a little bit disheartening when one of the mods here appears to hate Craig as passionately as the DCINB folks. I'm not naming names here and will handle my displeasure in private with the appropriate parties, but to me this kind of hate for a part of a franchise one claims to love is, well, it just doesn't fit my view of fandom. It's one thing to dislike a particular film, I think we all do that at one time or another. But to hate, or even worse be in total denial of a legitimate actor like a spoiled and petulant child such as those on the DCINB site, refusing to see or accept another's point of view, well the term "child" certainly fits, does it not?
I am so mature, I could not resist saying that, Mr. Editor. ;)
I need to finalize my personal rankings because it does change easily for me in some places. Skyfall is in my top 10 for sure, though.
(yeah because I type fast, I nearly always have to go back and change something ...)
My question is how am I able to recall one of my least favorites and one fo the worst films in the Bond fleet?
As a proud owner of the 50th Anniversary Blue Ray set (like many of my fellow original fans here) I have no intention of ever watching DAF again.
Along with : MR, TSWLM, Brosnan's films.
I would love, however, to read your Skyfall review, kind sir - even if brief, no matter what it is. I really want to read it, pretty please. :D
DAF I appreciate in even greater measure, though admittedly not by much. Connery is my hero and even in his bloated DAF state I still prefer him there to Moore in MR and Brosnan in general. The DAF music to this day is my favorite of John Barry's entire catalog including his non-Bond work. He manages to just perfectly capture the feel of every scene for me, no easy task to so thoroughly please a discriminating musician like myself who understands musical nuances and a composer's strengths and weaknesses in technical terms. Which, of course, is why I recoil in horror when Serra's GE soundtrack is mentioned, particularly because he is better than that. I love the Franks elevator fight, so intense like the Grant fight. The stunt work is superb, a little Keystone Cops at times but then Hamilton took almost glaring delight in making the local police look that way in most of his entries save GF, and there is a wicked sense of humor that I can appreciate.
In the long run for me though, DAF resembles MR and Helm/Flint movies more than a standard Bond film than I would like. Yes Sean is in it and it's a legit Fleming Bond story, but he doesn't take it any more seriously than Martin or Coburn, and it shows in his comments and motivations, not to mention his appearance.
Poor @Beatles. When he does get around to DAF, we'll be done griping about it :))
I second that. Surprised he hasn't done it by now.
I'd substitute Wint, Kidd, and Plenty for Connery here, but that's just me. I know some think the gay hit men should be more serious like the book version and can appreciate the sentiment in a book vs movie discussion, but I thought they were played to perfection by Glover and Smith according to the script they were given. I've said it before, I love their sense of humor about killing people in cold blood. They are genuinely nuts.
Connery's quip about Plenty's father is still hysterical even now. What red blooded man wouldn't like Plenty and the way her assets were filmed? Surely not me :)
I appreicate your kind words and requests but I have decided to content myself with reading your SkyFall reviews rather than do my own.
I enjoyed SF and think it is Craig at his whomp ass best, but I will pass on doing an in depth review.
Now back to my not watching DAF (among others)
MR had that great PTS which I think is the best of any film and I liked the subteledge scene (one of the few times that Roger looks scared and in actual danger) but I won't sit down for this film ever again. Despite the PTS, I still rank it as the worst of the films.
TSWLM I just did not care for. It also brings up bad memories (where were you in the summer of 1977 ? ) memories I just as soon leave buried in the back of my mind.
All of Brosnan except for GE...I may relent and re watch DAD like SirHenry said, if for no other reason than to show how low Bond sunk (and stank) during the Nineties.
And Plenty. Well, indeed. She's got two very good reasons for me to start gambling ;-)
No, I've never even visited that site, let alone been a member. I was referring to the four main sites - CBn, AJB, BaB and of course the unique MI6 Community - the best Bond site of them all.