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Lots to read - oh, and hey I hear it's your birthday.
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0SO8z7KG3hSfG0ADRVXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0cDAxNDRiBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDI5M18x/SIG=1hctisd2q/EXP=1383631946/**http%3a//video.search.yahoo.com/video/play%3fp=Birthday%2bby%2bThe%2bBeatles%26tnr=21%26vid=F18982E03575E3084C2AF18982E03575E3084C2A%26l=162%26turl=http%253A%252F%252Fts1.mm.bing.net%252Fth%253Fid%253DU.5025838790805764%2526pid%253D15.1%26rurl=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.youtube.com%252Fwatch%253Fv%253DQ8gHGRBVi%26sigr=118ldmulv%26tt=b%26tit=The%2bBeatles%2b-%2bBirthday%26sigt=10mse17ov%26back=http%253A%252F%252Fsearch.yahoo.com%252Fsearch%253Fei%253DUTF-8%2526p%253DBirthday%252Bby%252BThe%252BBeatles%2526fr%253Dush-mail%26sigb=12delhv6u
Happy Birthday to a great member of MI6. That's you, SirHenry. ;)
I didn't know that the 007 theme was used in this film.
Many happy returns to you. Hope you have a great birthday <:-P
I'm just glad they didn't have Madonna do the "Bond, James Bond," line. That would be worse than the gunbarrel at the end. Be thankful for small favors.
It's just funnier. Like Bond and a villain arguing like kindergartners.
Yes, I have now read all the tributes that were in DAD and it is just far too much. So who do I blame most for this film? It's a tough decision, but I think I will blame the script far more than anything else. Then the director, especially for allowing Halle to portray Jinx the way she did.
Really looking forward to the next film, where the positives shine so brightly and DAD is left in the dust.
If you're a true fan of the series and not just a particular actor or a certain style of movies, you don't want to slam any of the films. Considering there's only two films out of 23 in the past 51 years that for me take things too far and deserve some slamming, I have little to complain about and am currently very pleased with the Craig era :)
Thesis questions coming up!
1. While the vast majority of discerning fans realize that no Bond actor could have done much with the script and how it was directed, there are a segment of fans who feel Pierce Brosnan gave a better and more relaxed performance here than he did in The World Is Not Enough, one closer to the performance he gave in GoldenEye and Tommorow Never Dies. Do you agree, or disagree with the sentiment?
2. A two part question. First, the majority of Brosnan fans often indicate they would have liked to seen him do a 5th film, mostly because they would have liked to have seen him go out on a higher note. Obviously Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson felt differently. Do you agree with their decision to go in another direction with a different actor, or should they have postponed that for one more Brosnan film, and if you said yes, then for what reason? And second, should that 5th film been the film Brosnan really wanted and felt he deserved, the remake of Casino Royale, or a different film altogether that was better suited for the acting style and skill set he had previously displayed?
3. Another big problem and harsh criticism many fans have with the film is the excessive use of CGI by director Lee Tamahori, starting with the gun barrel and ending with kite surfing glaciers and disintegrating planes. Do you agree with the sentiments expressed that included those of Sir Roger Moore that echo this school of thought? Or was Tamahori justified in using as much as he did, in lieu of good old fashioned stunt work, due to what the script was calling for?
4. The title song written by Madonna and her cameo appearance are another big point of criticism among the fan base. Looking at how her title song performed on the charts and how she performed in her small cameo, was she worth the excess of 1 million dollars they paid for her contributions when examining the resulting revenues (please review the music notes in the trivia section for how the song performed), or would the producers have done better to limit her contributions to what was forced on them (her title song) rather than compounding the issues those had with the song by hiring her to make said cameo?
5. True multiple choice question #1. Name the best acting performance-
(a)- Pierce Brosnan as James Bond
(b)- Rosamund Pike as Miranda Frost
(c)- Emilio Echavarria as Raoul, the Cuban sleeper agent
(d)- Will Yun Lee as Colonel Moon
(e)- Kenneth Tsang as General Moon
(f)- Ho Yi as Chinese agent/hotelier Mr. Chang
(g)- Rachel Grant as Peaceful Fountains Of Desire
6. True multiple choice question #2. Name the worst acting performance-
(a)- Halle Berry as Jinx
(b)- Toby Stephens as Gustav Graves
(c)- Rick Yune as Zao
(d)- Michael Madsen as Damien Falco
(e)- Madonna as Verity
(f)- Samantha Bond as Miss Moneypenny
(g)- John Cleese as Q (or it is R, I'm confused)
Questions 5 and 6 BONUS- If you like, for each question you can give 7 points for the best/worst, 6 for the next, etcetera. The high point total will be the best/worst winner!
2. This is a tough one. Brosnan definitely deserved a fifth film. To use the popular formulation, he had his Moonraker, but never had his For Your Eyes Only. It would have gone a long way in helping his reputation among harcore Bond fans, and would have been much better in general. Of course, the flipside is that, had the fifth film been any good (as it almost certainly would have, Bond has a way of bouncing back), they might not have felt the need to make the radical changes that they did in Casino Royale. As it stands now, Casino Royale is nearly perfect (only From Russia With Love and Goldfinger are superior, and those have the advantage of being series and genre-defining), and I would not change a thing about it. The trade-off is harsh, but I'll be an optimist and say the changes to CR would have been minor enough that it would all be for the best. Obviously, I do not support Brosnan doing Casino Royale. It would have been interesting, but it would not be the same as Craig's.
3. Uh..I guess? If you put it like that, it's really the fault of the script for including stupid crap like iceberg parasailing and mega-plane crashes and invisible cars and cars that are sticking out the ground in one piece despite falling out of an airplane (Am I the only one that noticed this? They're there, and it's stupid.)
4. Madonna's performance in the cameo wasn't all that bad. It sort of gets folded in with all the other awfulness in Die Another Day, which isn't completely fair. I think the very idea of giving the artist a cameo is dumb but granting that, it could have been worse. I agree that the song was bad and that it's a blessing they didn't have her give the "Bond, James Bond," line. Seriously, what were they thinking? At least that terrible idea got axed.
5. Brosnan, I guess. Good job getting almost all the highlights in one spot. Only missing Judi Dench as M, I guess.
6. Halle Berry, and it's not even close. Nobody else on there is nearly as bad as she is. In particular, I don't think Toby Stephens is quite as bad as people say he is. The character (much like the movie) is irreparable, but he does what he can. He actually does a decent job making the character a psychopathic communist's insufferable imitation of Bond. As a foil, he's no Trevelyan or Silva, but he does what he can.
2. I don't believe the producers owed Brosnan anything. He was well paid for the 4 films and playing Bond took him from a C list to A list movie star overnight and I can completely understand why the producers wanted to go in another direction following the criticism DAD took but they could have handled the situation much better than they did. Brosnan deserved a face to face meeting at the very least. If however, Brosnan did get a fifth film, I could not see CR working with an actor already established in the role. CR could only have worked as a debut Bond.
3. Tamahori deserved every ounce of criticism he received. And then some! The golden rule of Bond is it should be done 'for real'. Quite simply, if Tamahori couldn't do the set pieces he wanted without resorting to CGI, then they shouldn't have been done at all.
4. Whilst hiring Madonna to do the theme song may have sounded like a good idea, whoever had the idea to let her have a cameo in the film should have never been allowed near Bond ever again. Whilst the song was pretty bad, it was successful so I'm sure from MGM's point of view, they made the correct business decision (ever if 'art' was to suffer).
5.
(c)- Emilio Echavarria as Raoul, the Cuban sleeper agent - 7pts
(e)- Kenneth Tsang as General Moon - 6pts
(a)- Pierce Brosnan as James Bond - 5pts
(d)- Will Yun Lee as Colonel Moon - 4pts
(b)- Rosamund Pike as Miranda Frost - 3pts
(f)- Ho Yi as Chinese agent/hotelier Mr. Chang - 2pts
(g)- Rachel Grant as Peaceful Fountains Of Desire - 1pt
6.
(a)- Halle Berry as Jinx - 7pts
(d)- Michael Madsen as Damien Falco - 6pts
(e)- Madonna as Verity - 5pts
(b)- Toby Stephens as Gustav Graves - 4pts
(c)- Rick Yune as Zao - 3pts
(g)- John Cleese as Q (or it is R, I'm confused) - 2pts
(f)- Samantha Bond as Miss Moneypenny - 1pt
I'd just like to add that I think Lawrence Makoare (Mr Kil) should have been on the above list. (He would have scored second).
I am slightly confused as to 2 of your answers. First, to part B of the second question- are you saying Brosnan deserved CR as the reboot it was, or not? For question 4, I will assume your answer here in that her hire for the song was worth it But what I'm getting at for the sake of clarification for everyone, is that it was EON's decision and not something forced on them by MGM regarding the cameo and the extra money she received for it that added to her total earnings. According to MGW as stated in the Jon Burlingame "Music Of James Bond" book, "She was a little reluctant (to take the role), but we had a part that we thought would be fun for her to play, and I think it works well". Do you agree with the decision, or not?
@WillyGalore- First, thank you for doing the bonus for questions 5 and 6. I can't make anyone do it who doesn't want to, but I would love to see everyone do it. And regarding Mr. Kil not being included, I came to the conclusion that he would be the landslide winner according to even the people who like the film! I felt it was better to spread the love around to some other folks who put in some lousy performances, especially those who weren't paid a trifling sum like Makaore was. His was a case of "you get what you pay for", which in his case was nothing. Unlike Madonna, who got significantly more and had even less scenes.
Your response to two questions is confusing. For question 1, I was only asking to compare Brosnan's actual performance in DAD to his in TWINE. You have to look at the material that was written for each and how he performed relative to the material, at not at which film you liked better. For question 3, it's clear that Tamahori used too much CGI- the question is, did he have no choice but to given the script, or could he have made the film more realistic and thus better by using actual stuntmen in certain situations? Many times, in my opinion, CGI is used to save time and money paid to a stunt person or a camera crew, to me that's wrong unless there is too much risk of personal injury for a stunt person to do what's being called for.
2. At the time I was very angry they didn't let him do a 5th, after I saw CR I completely changed my mind. They needed to break with the trend they were following. One thing for sure, CR would never have worked with Brosnan!
3. Oh, if it was just the CGI :-< You have no idea how many jokes I heard at the time about the "gene therapy" from my uni colleagues. Anyway, going back to the question, yes it was too much and also it didn't serve any purpose. Sir Roger was right.
4. The song performed well because a) it was Madonna and b) that kind of slub-sound had success at the time. However it is not at all a Bond-worthy song. I remember at the time reading some news that Elton John had heard the song and thought it unworthy and I wondered why. Then I heard it... Her small cameo would have been OK if she wasn't so bad in it :( Come undone indeed!
5. Name the best acting performance-
(a)- Pierce Brosnan as James Bond 3
(b)- Rosamund Pike as Miranda Frost 6 (what a waste)
(c)- Emilio Echavarria as Raoul, the Cuban sleeper agent 7 (great!)
(d)- Will Yun Lee as Colonel Moon 4
(e)- Kenneth Tsang as General Moon 5 (notably good in a difficult character)
(f)- Ho Yi as Chinese agent/hotelier Mr. Chang 2
(g)- Rachel Grant as Peaceful Fountains Of Desire 1
6. Name the worst acting performance-
(a)- Halle Berry as Jinx 6
(b)- Toby Stephens as Gustav Graves 1 (I don't think he was bad in it, he played it as the script asked for. I actually like Toby)
(c)- Rick Yune as Zao 3
(d)- Michael Madsen as Damien Falco 5
(e)- Madonna as Verity 7
(f)- Samantha Bond as Miss Moneypenny 2 (the script is to blame... mostly)
(g)- John Cleese as Q (or it is R, I'm confused) 4
For question #3, I assume you are saying that Tamahori was not justified in all the use of CGI, including the times it was obvious the script was so fantastical that he had no choice.
:))
As to question #3 let me put it this way, Tamahori was not justified in using so much CGI and the sequences for which the CGI was justified were unjustifiable /:)
2. Yes, I think he had at least one more in him (as evidenced in After The Sunset- he was still prime Bond material), and to the second part, no, CR was Craig's, a film for an older Bond would have been in order, something much more like SF.
3. There is NO excuse for all that cartoon nonsense. ANY other way to achieve those effects would have been better.
4. Madonna's cameo does not bother me in the least. My Wife didn't even know it was her until I pointed it out!
5.
(a)- Pierce Brosnan as James Bond 7
(b)- Rosamund Pike as Miranda Frost 6
(c)- Emilio Echavarria as Raoul, the Cuban sleeper agent 3
(d)- Will Yun Lee as Colonel Moon 5
(e)- Kenneth Tsang as General Moon 4
(f)- Ho Yi as Chinese agent/hotelier Mr. Chang 2
(g)- Rachel Grant as Peaceful Fountains Of Desire 1
6.
(a)- Halle Berry as Jinx 7
(b)- Toby Stephens as Gustav Graves 3
(c)- Rick Yune as Zao 5
(d)- Michael Madsen as Damien Falco 2
(e)- Madonna as Verity 4
(f)- Samantha Bond as Miss Moneypenny 6
(g)- John Cleese as Q (or it is R, I'm confused) 1
So, are you saying then she was worth the million both for how the song did with the public and the additional money they paid for her cameo?
A mill? Okay, I guess not. That was a waste of money, I'm just saying her song & cameo didn't bug me at all.
Hope that clears things up.
The updated poll shows Echavarria barely hanging on over Brosnan for best performance, and Halle Berry outpacing Madonna for worst. We've only had 4 responses thus far, so I hope we can equal the 9 we had last week and that everyone who participated will return and make this poll and thesis questions even more interesting.
2. I think Babs and Wilson were right in changing course. Brosnan was getting too old anyway, and though I'd have loved him to get a (far) better final film, it should've been his fourth.
3.Bond is about impressive stunts. Green screen stunts are not impressive. They're not even stunts.
4. Madonna should stay away from camera's (and microphones!!!) as much as possible.
5.
(a)- Pierce Brosnan as James Bond 6
(b)- Rosamund Pike as Miranda Frost 7
(c)- Emilio Echavarria as Raoul, the Cuban sleeper agent 4
(d)- Will Yun Lee as Colonel Moon 5
(e)- Kenneth Tsang as General Moon 3
(f)- Ho Yi as Chinese agent/hotelier Mr. Chang 2
(g)- Rachel Grant as Peaceful Fountains Of Desire 1
6.
(a)- Halle Berry as Jinx 7
(b)- Toby Stephens as Gustav Graves 3
(c)- Rick Yune as Zao 4
(d)- Michael Madsen as Damien Falco 2
(e)- Madonna as Verity 6
(f)- Samantha Bond as Miss Moneypenny 5
(g)- John Cleese as Q (or it is R, I'm confused) 1 (and we wouldn't want that, would we?)
sorry to be a bit short on words today, I'm too tired.
2) A complex question. Yes, I’d have liked to see a fifth and much better Brosnan Bond film. Did they “owe” him one? No, nobody is owed that sort of opportunity; you make the best of whatever opportunities come your way and Brosnan should have insisted on a better script for his fourth film if he was going to insist on anything at all. Given that Casino Royale was now, suddenly, available to them I think Eon made the correct decision to go with a different actor. CR needed to be somebody’s debut as Bond. Craig took the opportunity and made the most of it.
3) This depends substantially on aspects of the decision-making process that we, the fans, are simply not privy to. Are stunts “created” in the script-writing process? Or does the director, working with the stunt artists and an overall awareness of the general storyline, determine what can feasibly be filmed and what cannot, and then instruct the writers on the nature of the stunts they should include? I suspect the verdict is the latter, and that Tamahori had decided early on to depend on CGI to a much greater degree than had ever before been the case for a Bond film. I believe he then instructed Purvis & Wade to go wild, and the rest is history. Bottom line: Tamahori takes the flak this time, Purvis & Wade get plenty of blame for plenty of other things.
4) As I noted in my review of TND, some performers simply carry too much baggage onstage or onscreen with them. They can only be cast at the greater production's peril. Madonna is definitely one of these performers. If her "theme song" (and I use the term guardedly) achieved its promotional goal, then she was worth the price paid for that...but she ought to have stayed in the recording studio and kept her curvaceous self out of the film itself. I can't watch her one brief scene without thinking of the then-current show, "Pop-Up Videos" -- and in my mind, every moment with her onscreen also holds little pop-up captions. "Hey Kids, It's Madonna!" "Yeah, I gotcher Madonna right here!" "Awright awready, enough with the blinkin' Madonna, yaknowhatImean?"
5) (a)- Pierce Brosnan as James Bond 5
(b)- Rosamund Pike as Miranda Frost 3
(c)- Emilio Echavarria as Raoul, the Cuban sleeper agent 6
(d)- Will Yun Lee as Colonel Moon 2
(e)- Kenneth Tsang as General Moon 7 (A stand-out performance in a thankless role.)
(f)- Ho Yi as Chinese agent/hotelier Mr. Chang 4
(g)- Rachel Grant as Peaceful Fountains Of Desire 1 (As much as I'd like to have seen more of Miss Grant, she really didn't do much ACTING as Peaceful Fountains...)
6) (a)- Halle Berry as Jinx 7
(b)- Toby Stephens as Gustav Graves 4
(c)- Rick Yune as Zao 3
(d)- Michael Madsen as Damien Falco 6
(e)- Madonna as Verity 5
(f)- Samantha Bond as Miss Moneypenny 1
(g)- John Cleese as Q (or it is R, I'm confused) 2