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I am sure we are all very grateful to SirHenry for all the amazing work that he did with this thread (and others), and did it so brilliantly. He gave us a real treasure with this thread (not to mention, all the other fine gifts he gave us of friendship and camaraderie on other threads and personal messages, etc.). I do feel certain he would want us to continue on with this one - and to enjoy it and have productive, interesting, fun, and thoughtful discussions.
Therefore, this is what I would like to do in the next week or so:
1) I will read all Greg's notes to me to find his comments about ideas for continuing this thread. That should not be hard to do.
2) I do know that he wanted to do the group rating next, as has already been mentioned. The one where we put all the Originals' ratings together to make one core rating, that sums up that particular group of reviewers. Discuss that. Compare that to our own individual ratings.
I think that is great - and I am personally really excited to be at this point in time for that to happen (albeit always with that bit of sadness, because SirHenry is not here to continue this journey with us). And all of that - viewing the Originals compiled ratings, comparing that set with our own, and discussing these - will take a nice amount of time for us. Therefore, moving forward, that is I believe the right next step. Do you all agree with that?
So I will go back and look at, and log, the "Originals" ratings for each of the films. That will take me some time, so please allow me to finish that next weekend. I will try to finish that by then.
3) Also, by next Monday, I can write up SirHenry's ideas for us all to discuss, including of course whatever ideas he mentioned to you that I don't know about.
I am fine with leading this thread, but I would like a co-chair to assist me. That will enable things to continue more smoothly and on time. Believe me, I know truly that no one can replace SirHenry, or even come close to doing as fine a job, but I would like to do my best to help us carry on. Please let me know your thoughts on what I have written here. Thank you, each and every one of you who love this thread.
One final personal note: Thank you also for all of your heartfelt tributes to SirHenryLeeChaChing, an incomparable member who will always be at the heart of our forum; he will never be forgotten.
1. Casino Royale- 4.36
2. Goldfinger- 4.30
3. From Russia With Love- 4.26
4. Skyfall- 4.20
5. The Living Daylights- 4.11
6. Thunderball- 4.09
7. The Spy Who Loved Me- 4.06
8. Licence To Kill- 4.03
9. On Her Majesty's Secret Service- 3.99
10. For Your Eyes Only- 3.91
11. You Only Live Twice- 3.90
12. Live And Let Die- 3.81
13. GoldenEye- 3.80
14. Octopussy- 3.73
15. Tomorrow Never Dies- 3.71
16. Dr. No- 3.57
17. Quantum Of Solace- 3.43
18. A View To A Kill- 3.31
19. The World Is Not Enough- 3.20
20. The Man With The Golden Gun- 3.09
21. Diamonds Are Forever- 2.99
22. Moonraker- 2.96
23. Die Another Day- 2.70
4.1+4.3+4.0+4.3+4.4+4.0+4.3=29.4/7=4.2.
I know, it's shocking as it was the template for all that followed. Still, members have "paid their deposit" and that's democracy, I guess.
It's one of the films I've seen most in the series. It's a great entry and very underappreciated. What's not to like? As you say, the template for Bond is there right from the start - it's amazing how Young, Connery, Adam and Barry just produced this fully formed package, right from the start.
As you say, it is indeed amazing.
All in all I took some time to tally up the results of SirHenry's thesis. Of course his opinion is missing so I will only give an as neutral as I can tallying. So here goes, in memory of Greg:
1. The reintroduction of the Moneypenny character seemed to have followed a trend of "empowerment" by adding field duties to her resume. Comments from Sam Mendes and others seem to indicate that her return to strictly desk type duties that the end of Skyfall alluded to may not be written in stone. The thesis question here is, should Moneypenny again physically participate in car chases and other action sequences, or she largely be desk bound and be kept as a non-combatant?
A huge majority prefers Moneypenny to stay deskbound in future, perhaps with the odd exemption gere and there when it suits the plot like Llwellyn's Q did now and then.
2. While our new Q is less the buffoon of the Cleese era, I felt that his credibility took a hit when Silva outwitted him. More disturbing to me is this era of "political correctness" and the temptation to have the character reflect Ben Whishaw's real life status as a gay man to promote diversity. Having seen in prior entries that Q certainly appreciates the ladies in a heterosexual sense, the question is both how would you feel if the "gay Q" scenario happened, and does this level of PC belong in a film series that has thrived just fine without it?
Well, most of you feel nothing, when it comes down to Q's sexuality, as most of you consider it something for Q, and not for a Bond movie. Q should be a-sexual.
3. The eternal question I will always have- did you agree with the decision to kill off Severine? Please explain your answer and specifically what you would have done if your answer is "no".
Again most understand Severine's early death, and still most do regret it. Yes, it served a purpose, but some nagging feeling that hers should hve been a larger role remains.
4. Silva's escape plot I think we all can agree was implausible. Now you be the writer. What would you have done?
Most agree here that Silva should've had some more help from the outside. He as able to get so much help anyway, why not use those goons to help him escape?
5. A two part question. On a scale of 1 to 5, with 5 being the highest, how would you rate Newman's score? Please feel free to detail as to what you liked and if you didn't like it, what was missing for you? Second, do you want Newman back or would you prefer a return to David Arnold or another composer entirely?
What's the score's Gearoge Dawe's? well, when we round up 4Ever's score to a 3,5 we get five three's, two three's and a half and a two, making it a round three. On Newman's return not too many await. David Arnold's still fave with 4 and a half votes, Newman only gets two and a half and others end up with two. not that convincing. I 's really would've loved to know what SirHenry 's thoughts were.
6. Much has been made about Mendes' acknowledgement that the film reflects his admiration for the recent "Batman" films. And yet Bond films have always survived just fine on their own special formula. So with Skyfall appearing to have brought Bond full circle from CR/QOS and with that in mind, name any three "formula elements" lacking in the current films you would like to see return. For example, they brought back Moneypenny and Q, so what else should return and how would the next adventure look to you?
Well, this is just a best-off:
highest on the list is the gunbarrel at the start. Closely followed by a Girl in Bond's arms instead of dead. Then the numbers are not rounded anymore, but the gest is that most want a classic adventure. No focus on Bond's emotions, but a Thunderball like story.
I hope I did some justice to SirHenry's thesis questions.
Wow! I am impressed, @Samuel001! Thank you so much for posting our rankings.
I figured it would take me a whole week, to check every review/rating of the core Originals (6 of us) whose reviews counted. Had you been keep track all along? I had not separately done that.
There is a group consensus we can arrive at, but SirHenry wanted the 6 Originals' ratings to be ranked as a separate group; did you do that?
You did the finest job here, @CommanderRoss, of putting together the summaries of our comments to the thesis questions - thank you very much!
We can continue to all discuss what topics to talk about, naturally. But I live in a different time zone, and I could not have come up with all the total rankings easily and quickly (we still need two sets of ratings, but we can work that out later).
I am an Original (saw my first Bond film, one that starred Sean Connery, in a theatre during its original release) ... but my co-chair does not have to be an original, I do not think.
Please think it through and send me a PM. Thank you!
I believe it is a ranking of all reviews that were given a numerical rating, but I could easily be wrong. Please clarify that for me when you come back on the forum, Samuel. Thanks!
Greg wanted us to first look at the ratings of all the Bond films from the 6 Original members. He felt that would be really interesting, to see the viewpoints of a core set of members who started with Sean Connery through Daniel Craig. He wanted us to look at that and discuss it. But other reviewers, all readers, were welcome to share their ratings of the films under discussion; their numerical ranking would not count in this core group consensus.
So I am unsure what we are looking at on this page - the 6 Originals' scores, or a set of total scores by everyone would used a numerical ranking? I am happy to have two sets of scores, but I want the Originals' ones separate because that is what Greg was looking to do, what he set this thread up for originally. It was his experiment to see what a group of Originals would come up with in their rankings of all the Bond films. But he did want everyone else to join in and give their opinions, too.
I'm glad we can start discussing the ratings, though, because they will surely differ from our personal rankings. So even while we wait for Samuel to get back with us, let's continue discussing this particular set of ratings. For me, I am surprised Dr. No ranked that low.
He certainly did. And yes, the thread should be renamed in SirHenry's honour.
Very glad to hear that, @4EverBonded. A lasting tribute to Sir Henry there. His own virtual park bench, if you will.
So if you look at our Originals rankings, just the top ten - it is a nice mixture of the different eras of Bond. I have Goldeneye in my top ten, though. Hard to fault the amazing CR, I think.
YOLT - I have it lower, too. But I do love Barry's score, the incredible theme song, and the cinematography. But due to story and some things I find fault with, I have it a bit lower in my ranking, yes.