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A) you lose the minute you deliberately decide to parody the Bonds with another Bond (DAD parodied Bond unknowingly ;-))
B) you hire many directors (6 altogether?) for separate segments and fail to edit the whole thing in a more or less consistent way, thus creating an incoherent mess. It might have been better had they actually set out to make an anthology film.
But Bacharach indeed gave us a lovely score, The Look Of Love being no less a triumph than some of Barry's songs.
Here is the bottom half of my personal rankings:
Note: the bottom 5 do change around at times.
13. The World is Not Enough
14. Quantum of Solace
15. Thunderball
16. You Only Live Twice
17. License to Kill
18. Diamonds Are Forever
19. The Man With a Golden Gun
20. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
21. Die Another Day
22. A View To A Kill
23. Moonraker
The Look of Love is probably my favourite song, ever! The most perfect pop song ever written, the most sophisticated, the most amazing Bond song never written for a Bond film ;)
;)
Yep, my review is on page 16. I had to rate the film higher due to the categories the Originals had to go by (sadism: 5 out of 5). But I don't enjoy the film much at all. I wish I could have had Carey and Timothy in another Bond film, a different one.
It's not too far off. I'd replace OP and MR (even though they're still bottom half for me) with TMWTGG and DAF.
TMWTGG is SO much better than MR it's not even funny.
Well, yeah, a little bit. :D
Moonraker = <:-P
The Man With The Golden Gun = ~X(
This.
Seconded, though there are a few cringy moments in Moonraker too...but not as many.
Goodheads cry of "Jaaammes" when she's reunited with him in Drax's base. Urgh!
Which brings me to the following: The rating the Originals used had some elements which made them rank films higher or lower then what they'd normally score them. For me, and I guess for the Originals as well there are elements that eliviate the film perhaps further then one would expect. i.e. I love AVTAK because of the genius of Christopher Walken who makes an unbelievable story believable, the fantastic music helping a lot. And suddenly I just forget about Roger's age and the screaming damsel.
oh, and tickling Chaikovsky always makes me laugh.
Anyway, TB becomes champion through the simmering hot Paluzzi, the most intregueing Adolfo Celi and of course Sean at his best. Oh, and Barry's score of course. It makes me forget the long underwater battles.
I understand @Chrisisisall would just rate LTK high because of Dalton and Davi. And allthough I like both, for me Pam is a hugh letdown (yes, really!) and Dalton's just a tad too emotional for Bond who is, after all, more of a 'emotions one keeps for himself'kind of guy (which is why I love Craig so much!)
however, somehow DAF's fine soundtrack for me just doesn't cover a lazy, fat Sean in a Vegas where cars roll around in alleyways. And those moonbuggy tires that wander through the desert don't help either. They ruin the magic which makes that film drop to increadable lows for me.
So, perhaps for later discussion: what makes or breaks a film and why do the highs cover, or not cover the low's.
p.s.
forgive me for the few and far inbetween posts, things are right now not going the way they ought to go.
Today is Monday morning, as I type this I am just getting up. My plan was to set out a general set of suggestions for what we should do next on this thread. Therefore, CommanderRoss, your suggestions are made at just the right time - thanks!
I have looked at all my past emails and PMs from SirHenry/Greg - and he didn't spell out a definite set of discussions points for after we finished comparing the Originals rankings with our own. He wanted us to find things of mutual interest to discuss until the next Bond (which then of course would provide tons of new things to talk about).
Here is something SirHenry said to me:
As far as our thread, I'm thinking we'll start talking next about personal vs group rankings and then it will probably be "topic du jour". Maybe a book discussion? If you've got some ideas, I'm up for any suggestion.
He was of course thrilled that we made it through reviewing all the Bond films, and had the final rankings as a set comparison. I think we have done a thorough enough job discussing Skyfall, and the thesis questions SirHenry gave us; and since then we have enjoyed looking at the Originals rankings compared to our own. So now is a good time to move on.
So - to everyone who enjoys this thread - let's decide what to do next.
Here are my suggestions. Please comment on these, and also tell us if you have a different suggestion about what you'd like to do next on this thread:
1) Discuss your very favorites; maybe your top 2 or 3 Bond films and why they are your favorites. As CommanderRoss suggested: cover the high points of a film. I'd like to cover the high points of my top 2 or 3 favorite Bond films, what really makes them shine for me, why they are my favorites. (NOTE: I think we can do this, share what we really love about them, and have discussion about the films without deteriorating into a pro or bash any particular Bond. This thread has always had good discussion and does not get easily derailed. I hope that continues!) Maybe do the highs first, then we could tackle the low points of a few films. Top 2 films? Top 5? What would be best to tackle?
2) Discuss an era (by Bond)- Sean's films, for example. What we like and don't like about his particular Bond films. I do want to do this at some point. It would take some time, but I'd enjoy that. How about you?
3) Discuss briefly what you were doing in your life during the time period of your favorite Bond film. Just a nostalgic look back; that might be fun to share.
4) Discuss the films by director. Tamahori and Forster alone would give us plenty to slam talk about.
5) Discuss the theme songs - all of them; what you liked or did not like about them.
6) Discuss the films compared to the novels. But not everyone has read them, so I hesitate to do that next.
I am completely open to other suggestions, but I'd like for us to really decide, hopefully by this Friday, what to do next. This thread exists still because of all of you- Thanks for being a part of this and for helping carry it forward into 2014, 2015, Bond 24, and beyond.
:)>-
I'll count yours as #1 as well; if not, just let me know.
And once we get started, feel free to copy and paste from another thread if you have already gone on in detail about what we are discussing, adding bits and pieces to that if you'd like. I know I probably will, from my past reviews, at least a bit.
Cheers!
allthough I'd also be quite interested in what the original's views are when it comes to .6
:-B
First we need to get a collective vote, on which to do first. We won't start actually posting about these things until I give us the green light. So please don't post early. But I will get this moving forward as soon as we get a few more votes in. If I can get a consensus of 10 members, I'd be happy. But either way, I'd like to start by Thursday at the very latest (I don't want to wait that long, either) ... today is only Tuesday (for me), but I am happy to let us begin very soon, if we get a few more votes in.
I definitely think that it would be best to tackle the above suggestions one at a time - each would take maybe a week, or a little longer. I would rather not combine them because each category can be discussed more fully separately.
For example, of course I am going to mention some things about Sean as Bond when I talk about one of my favorite films, From Russia With Love. But I would also like to discuss the entire Sean era as a separate topic.
One reason why this thread worked well in the past was because we had a definite topic to discuss (again, some things will overlap). And that topic was explored, then we moved on. It was obvious when the topic was a specific film. Then SirHenry gave us thesis questions as we revisited the films, which was an excellent way to keep us involved yet still on point.
Looking at the list I came up with, I feel that the only two that can be combined in one topic point to discuss would be #1 and #3. Although #3 can for sure be discussed separately by all of us as its own point of interest. Each of the suggestions can be explored separately. Please just pick your favorite of those - but if you have a different suggestion, please tell me; all suggestions are welcome and if we don't do it right away, we will later on.
All clear now? Please tell me which suggestion we should do next (keeping in mind we will do the others and some topics will overlap a little, but all can be explored fully as a separate weekly topic). Please do not start posting your thoughts on any of these topics until I give us the "official" start of the selected topic. Which hopefully will be quite soon! :)
Thanks very much for participating! If we get a few more votes, I think we can start discussing something fun, maybe even tomorrow. Please be a tad more patient with me. I will be checking the thread throughout my work day and will update as needed.
@Birdleson, when we talk about the films by Bond era (as a chosen topic), then you can talk about Sean's films in any way you'd like: comparing film to film, his progression in the role, his impact, what made him special, what you liked and did not like about him as Bond or about aspects of his films; your take on his entire tenure as Bond, how you feel his era endures today. But not just yet ...
Cheers! :)>-
Yes, exactly, @Thunderfinger (that is a fun username, isn't it?). :D
I want each suggestion done, just one at a time. And I say, later on, we shall do a list of our fav Bond actors, but later on a bit. For now, get me a few more votes, people! I'd like to start our "topic of the week" tomorrow if possible. >:D<
As promised, I have prepared a comparison of my Bond film rankings, compiled prior to my involvement in the “Originals” reviews system, juxtaposed with the rating they received from me in accordance with the system devised by our good friend SirHenry. The number shown on the far left is my initial ranking, then the title, and on the right the total points amassed by my review and the ranking those points would indicate under the SirHenry system. As you can see, I am at least consistent regarding the top three films. After that, things get a little dicey:
1) GOLDFINGER (47 = # 1 )
2) FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE (46 = # 2 )
3) CASINO ROYALE (45 = # 3 )
4) GOLDENEYE (41 = # 6)
5) SKYFALL (43 = # 4 )
6) THUNDERBALL (40 = # 9)
7) DR. NO (33 = # 19)
8) THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS (41 = # 7)
9) ON HER MAJESTY’S SECRET SERVICE (39 = # 11)
10) LICENSE TO KILL (39 = # 12)
11) YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE (38 = # 13)
12) TOMORROW NEVER DIES (42 = # 5)
13) THE SPY WHO LOVED ME (41 = # 8)
14) FOR YOUR EYES ONLY (40 = # 10)
15) THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH (34 = # 18)
16) A VIEW TO A KILL (35 = # 16)
17) LIVE AND LET DIE (37 = # 14)
18) OCTOPUSSY (37 = # 15)
19) DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER (28 = #21)
20) THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN (28 = #22)
21) QUANTUM OF SOLACE (35 = #17)
22) DIE ANOTHER DAY (27 = #23)
23) MOONRAKER (29 = # 20)
The first conclusion we can reach from these numbers: DR. NO just can’t catch a break under the Originals’ system! I initially gave it a 7th place finish, but under this system it tumbles to # 19! Most films are within 2 or 3 notches of their initial placement when calculated under the Originals’ system -- but THE SPY WHO LOVED ME moves up substantially under the Originals’ system, as does FOR YOUR EYES ONLY. QUANTUM OF SOLACE also improves markedly under this system…but TOMORROW NEVER DIES is probably the biggest winner here, jumping all the way from an initial placement of #12 to an Originals’ placement of #5! What goes on here?
I think there are a couple of different factors at play. First of all, my opinion is no more immutable than anyone else's -- I do reserve the right to change my mind from time to time! While I have come to appreciate some of Sir Roger Moore's entries in the Bond canon more than was originally the case, thanks in no small part to my involvement in this project, I also find that my opinion on the subject of Pierce Brosnan's tenure as 007 vacillates far more now than it did originally. I do have a solid fondness for GOLDENEYE, ranking it either # 4 or #6 depending on which scale is being used…and when TND is compared with GE element for element, they are very similar -- with TND slightly edging out GE for me in some ways! I really do appreciate the relative believability of Carver’s media mogul, and the assemblage of his villainous crew, including Dr. Kaufman, Henry Gupta, and Stamper, are very nicely delineated. But when a wider comparison is envisioned, with all 23 movies taken into view, GE still holds a greater charm than most for me, while TND tends to pale in the comparison. Some fans accuse the Brosnan Bond films of simply “checking off the boxes” -- and perhaps there is some validity to that criticism. For me, at least, it seems that TND was able to thrive under a category-by-category evaluation more easily than was the case for the likes of DR. NO. Well, let me state for the record: I appreciate DR. NO in a fashion that TOMORROW NEVER DIES will never be able to approach! I hope that my fellow Bond fans find this comparative evaluation of some interest. Comments, anyone?
For TND, it is one of my favorite Bond films and I enjoy it pretty much the same or even more than Goldeneye. I rank TND as #6, with Goldeneye as #4 on my list. I feel that TND is Brosnan's personal best portrayal of Bond - he really came into his own in the role in that film; charming, confident, great fights, smooth, and gritty at the right times. Pierce is the reason why I rank that one so highly, though I enjoy Michele Yeoh's Wai Lin a lot, too. Paris was neglible, while Goldeneye had the wonderul Natalya. Both are in my top ten, yes.
For Dr. No, I definitely appreciate it more than the group Originals' rankings showed. I have it in my top ten (#9 actually on my current list). Like you, I do change my personal rankings from time to time. I agree with you that, "DR. NO just can’t catch a break under the Originals’ system." It didn't. But we know better, right? ;)
And my other examples are OHMSS and LTK: Both low are my personal list, yet I ranked them higher in my review than I cared to, thanks to the constraints of those categories.
I look forward to reading others' comments about your list and the points you made, Beatles. And I will happily put you down for suggestion #1 as we vote on what to discuss next.
Cheers!
:))
Also, if anyone wants the title changed to be more pertinent? Just let me know. Obviously we keep Sir Henrey's name, but after that it can be altered slightly if you like @4EverBonded.