SirHenryLeeChaChing's For Original Fans - Favorite Moments In NTTD (spoilers)

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  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I do think of CR67 as a bit of fluff, with the entire crew and producers and everybody just indulging a little too much in the 60's heady brew ... probably chemically, too. ;) It is a rather psychedelic mess.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    The problem is twofold:
    A) you lose the minute you deliberately decide to parody the Bonds with another Bond (DAD parodied Bond unknowingly ;-))
    B) you hire many directors (6 altogether?) for separate segments and fail to edit the whole thing in a more or less consistent way, thus creating an incoherent mess. It might have been better had they actually set out to make an anthology film.

    But Bacharach indeed gave us a lovely score, The Look Of Love being no less a triumph than some of Barry's songs.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited February 2014 Posts: 12,480
    I think that song is the best thing about the whole movie. Plus Ursula looks stunning. But I cringed for Deborah Kerr and others. (When I think of growing up in the 60's, I remember Ursula, Twiggy, Jean Shrimpton, Elke Sommer, Patti Boyd, and Audrey Hepburn the most. VERY 60's. I wanted to look like Ursula, but ended up looking closest like Patti; not a bad thing.)

    Here is the bottom half of my personal rankings:
    Note: the bottom 5 do change around at times.

    13. The World is Not Enough
    14. Quantum of Solace
    15. Thunderball
    16. You Only Live Twice
    17. License to Kill
    18. Diamonds Are Forever
    19. The Man With a Golden Gun
    20. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
    21. Die Another Day
    22. A View To A Kill
    23. Moonraker


  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    DarthDimi wrote:
    The problem is twofold:
    A) you lose the minute you deliberately decide to parody the Bonds with another Bond (DAD parodied Bond unknowingly ;-))
    B) you hire many directors (6 altogether?) for separate segments and fail to edit the whole thing in a more or less consistent way, thus creating an incoherent mess. It might have been better had they actually set out to make an anthology film.

    But Bacharach indeed gave us a lovely score, The Look Of Love being no less a triumph than some of Barry's songs.

    The Look of Love is probably my favourite song, ever! The most perfect pop song ever written, the most sophisticated, the most amazing Bond song never written for a Bond film ;)

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Thanks for posting this, @Sandy!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    17. License to Kill
    17? You make me cry. :((

    ;)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited February 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Ah, but I really do not enjoy the film. Davi is a very good actor, as is Dalton, but this film was too violent, sadistic, and unoriginal for me (a drug cartel don? In the late 80's during the Miami Vice era?... please! Bond could have had a more original and interesting story). I disliked much of it. I liked Carey as Pam very much. So parts of the film were great but overall it is a real downer for me, distasteful even, and I do not enjoy watching it. You can read my full review, of course, if you'd like. It's on page #16. I did not knock the acting but the story, sadism, and script. Well, okay Taliso cannot act, but that was not a big deal.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    You can read my full review, of course, if you'd like.
    I remember it. You were very nice to the movie. I was just in the mood for a mini-tantrum. I like Dalton too much, I think. :P
  • Posts: 6,396
    Whilst not in the same order, you have the same top five as me @Birdleson :-bd
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited February 2014 Posts: 12,480
    chrisisall wrote:
    You can read my full review, of course, if you'd like.
    I remember it. You were very nice to the movie. I was just in the mood for a mini-tantrum. I like Dalton too much, I think. :P

    Yep, my review is on page 16. I had to rate the film higher due to the categories the Originals had to go by (sadism: 5 out of 5). But I don't enjoy the film much at all. I wish I could have had Carey and Timothy in another Bond film, a different one.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 6,396
    Birdleson wrote:
    Whilst not in the same order, you have the same top five as me @Birdleson :-bd

    Excellent. And our bottom five?

    It's not too far off. I'd replace OP and MR (even though they're still bottom half for me) with TMWTGG and DAF.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    [
    It's not too far off. I'd replace OP and MR (even though they're still bottom half for me) with TMWTGG and DAF.

    TMWTGG is SO much better than MR it's not even funny.
    Well, yeah, a little bit. :D
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited February 2014 Posts: 16,351
    My thoughts.
    Moonraker = <:-P

    The Man With The Golden Gun = ~X(
  • Posts: 6,396
    Murdock wrote:
    My thoughts.
    Moonraker = <:-P

    The Man With The Golden Gun = ~X(

    This.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Murdock wrote:
    My thoughts.
    Moonraker = <:-P

    The Man With The Golden Gun = ~X(

    This.

    Seconded, though there are a few cringy moments in Moonraker too...but not as many.

    Goodheads cry of "Jaaammes" when she's reunited with him in Drax's base. Urgh!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,249
    Thanks for the shout out @$Ever but I'm afraid I'm not very good at the ranking, always getting confused about which one should be aboe which one. My rating would go more or less in circles. Tha basis however is that TB always comes out Onatopp, and AVTAK ranks higher then with most. DAD however will probably forever carry the red lantern. QoS I rate high as well.

    Which brings me to the following: The rating the Originals used had some elements which made them rank films higher or lower then what they'd normally score them. For me, and I guess for the Originals as well there are elements that eliviate the film perhaps further then one would expect. i.e. I love AVTAK because of the genius of Christopher Walken who makes an unbelievable story believable, the fantastic music helping a lot. And suddenly I just forget about Roger's age and the screaming damsel.
    oh, and tickling Chaikovsky always makes me laugh.

    Anyway, TB becomes champion through the simmering hot Paluzzi, the most intregueing Adolfo Celi and of course Sean at his best. Oh, and Barry's score of course. It makes me forget the long underwater battles.

    I understand @Chrisisisall would just rate LTK high because of Dalton and Davi. And allthough I like both, for me Pam is a hugh letdown (yes, really!) and Dalton's just a tad too emotional for Bond who is, after all, more of a 'emotions one keeps for himself'kind of guy (which is why I love Craig so much!)

    however, somehow DAF's fine soundtrack for me just doesn't cover a lazy, fat Sean in a Vegas where cars roll around in alleyways. And those moonbuggy tires that wander through the desert don't help either. They ruin the magic which makes that film drop to increadable lows for me.

    So, perhaps for later discussion: what makes or breaks a film and why do the highs cover, or not cover the low's.

    p.s.
    forgive me for the few and far inbetween posts, things are right now not going the way they ought to go.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited February 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Thanks for your post, @CommanderRoss! Even though you did not give us a set ranking, you were kind enough to give us some details about what you like and don't like. That still keeps us in discussion, which is great. :-bd

    Today is Monday morning, as I type this I am just getting up. My plan was to set out a general set of suggestions for what we should do next on this thread. Therefore, CommanderRoss, your suggestions are made at just the right time - thanks!

    I have looked at all my past emails and PMs from SirHenry/Greg - and he didn't spell out a definite set of discussions points for after we finished comparing the Originals rankings with our own. He wanted us to find things of mutual interest to discuss until the next Bond (which then of course would provide tons of new things to talk about).
    Here is something SirHenry said to me:

    As far as our thread, I'm thinking we'll start talking next about personal vs group rankings and then it will probably be "topic du jour". Maybe a book discussion? If you've got some ideas, I'm up for any suggestion.

    He was of course thrilled that we made it through reviewing all the Bond films, and had the final rankings as a set comparison. I think we have done a thorough enough job discussing Skyfall, and the thesis questions SirHenry gave us; and since then we have enjoyed looking at the Originals rankings compared to our own. So now is a good time to move on.

    So - to everyone who enjoys this thread - let's decide what to do next.
    Here are my suggestions. Please comment on these, and also tell us if you have a different suggestion about what you'd like to do next on this thread:

    1) Discuss your very favorites; maybe your top 2 or 3 Bond films and why they are your favorites. As CommanderRoss suggested: cover the high points of a film. I'd like to cover the high points of my top 2 or 3 favorite Bond films, what really makes them shine for me, why they are my favorites. (NOTE: I think we can do this, share what we really love about them, and have discussion about the films without deteriorating into a pro or bash any particular Bond. This thread has always had good discussion and does not get easily derailed. I hope that continues!) Maybe do the highs first, then we could tackle the low points of a few films. Top 2 films? Top 5? What would be best to tackle?

    2) Discuss an era (by Bond)- Sean's films, for example. What we like and don't like about his particular Bond films. I do want to do this at some point. It would take some time, but I'd enjoy that. How about you?

    3) Discuss briefly what you were doing in your life during the time period of your favorite Bond film. Just a nostalgic look back; that might be fun to share.

    4) Discuss the films by director. Tamahori and Forster alone would give us plenty to slam talk about.

    5) Discuss the theme songs - all of them; what you liked or did not like about them.

    6) Discuss the films compared to the novels. But not everyone has read them, so I hesitate to do that next.

    I am completely open to other suggestions, but I'd like for us to really decide, hopefully by this Friday, what to do next. This thread exists still because of all of you- Thanks for being a part of this and for helping carry it forward into 2014, 2015, Bond 24, and beyond.
    :)>-
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Thanks, @Birdleson! I hope we can choose one of these by Friday. We can do others later of course. So my vote is for suggestion #1 at this time.
    I'll count yours as #1 as well; if not, just let me know.

    And once we get started, feel free to copy and paste from another thread if you have already gone on in detail about what we are discussing, adding bits and pieces to that if you'd like. I know I probably will, from my past reviews, at least a bit.

    Cheers!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,249
    Well, my vote goes to nr. 1 of course.. ;-)

    allthough I'd also be quite interested in what the original's views are when it comes to .6
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    I'd say a combo of 1-3.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Do them all, one at the time. Would be interesting to see the originals rate the six Bond actors as well.
  • Theme songs would be fun. The recaps also started midway through the series (around TMWTGG or TSWLM, if memory serves), so covering the Connery era would be good, especially considering that this thread is for people who started in those days.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited February 2014 Posts: 12,480
    OK, I am waking up now. Since I am rather helming this thread now, I want us to have a definite topic to discuss; that has worked well in the past. Here is what I think:
    :-B

    First we need to get a collective vote, on which to do first. We won't start actually posting about these things until I give us the green light. So please don't post early. But I will get this moving forward as soon as we get a few more votes in. If I can get a consensus of 10 members, I'd be happy. But either way, I'd like to start by Thursday at the very latest (I don't want to wait that long, either) ... today is only Tuesday (for me), but I am happy to let us begin very soon, if we get a few more votes in.

    I definitely think that it would be best to tackle the above suggestions one at a time - each would take maybe a week, or a little longer. I would rather not combine them because each category can be discussed more fully separately.

    For example, of course I am going to mention some things about Sean as Bond when I talk about one of my favorite films, From Russia With Love. But I would also like to discuss the entire Sean era as a separate topic.

    One reason why this thread worked well in the past was because we had a definite topic to discuss (again, some things will overlap). And that topic was explored, then we moved on. It was obvious when the topic was a specific film. Then SirHenry gave us thesis questions as we revisited the films, which was an excellent way to keep us involved yet still on point.

    Looking at the list I came up with, I feel that the only two that can be combined in one topic point to discuss would be #1 and #3. Although #3 can for sure be discussed separately by all of us as its own point of interest. Each of the suggestions can be explored separately. Please just pick your favorite of those - but if you have a different suggestion, please tell me; all suggestions are welcome and if we don't do it right away, we will later on.

    All clear now? Please tell me which suggestion we should do next (keeping in mind we will do the others and some topics will overlap a little, but all can be explored fully as a separate weekly topic). Please do not start posting your thoughts on any of these topics until I give us the "official" start of the selected topic. Which hopefully will be quite soon! :)

    Thanks very much for participating! If we get a few more votes, I think we can start discussing something fun, maybe even tomorrow. Please be a tad more patient with me. I will be checking the thread throughout my work day and will update as needed.

    @Birdleson, when we talk about the films by Bond era (as a chosen topic), then you can talk about Sean's films in any way you'd like: comparing film to film, his progression in the role, his impact, what made him special, what you liked and did not like about him as Bond or about aspects of his films; your take on his entire tenure as Bond, how you feel his era endures today. But not just yet ...

    Cheers! :)>-
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Do them all, one at the time. Would be interesting to see the originals rate the six Bond actors as well.

    Yes, exactly, @Thunderfinger (that is a fun username, isn't it?). :D
    I want each suggestion done, just one at a time. And I say, later on, we shall do a list of our fav Bond actors, but later on a bit. For now, get me a few more votes, people! I'd like to start our "topic of the week" tomorrow if possible. >:D<
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 3,566
    I'll be happy to consider the themes suggested -- I'd be willing to jump straight into #2, but probably #1 is the best place to start. Until we are ready to commence with them, however, I have one last bit of "ranking" business to reveal:

    As promised, I have prepared a comparison of my Bond film rankings, compiled prior to my involvement in the “Originals” reviews system, juxtaposed with the rating they received from me in accordance with the system devised by our good friend SirHenry. The number shown on the far left is my initial ranking, then the title, and on the right the total points amassed by my review and the ranking those points would indicate under the SirHenry system. As you can see, I am at least consistent regarding the top three films. After that, things get a little dicey:

    1) GOLDFINGER (47 = # 1 )
    2) FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE (46 = # 2 )
    3) CASINO ROYALE (45 = # 3 )
    4) GOLDENEYE (41 = # 6)
    5) SKYFALL (43 = # 4 )
    6) THUNDERBALL (40 = # 9)
    7) DR. NO (33 = # 19)
    8) THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS (41 = # 7)
    9) ON HER MAJESTY’S SECRET SERVICE (39 = # 11)
    10) LICENSE TO KILL (39 = # 12)
    11) YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE (38 = # 13)
    12) TOMORROW NEVER DIES (42 = # 5)
    13) THE SPY WHO LOVED ME (41 = # 8)
    14) FOR YOUR EYES ONLY (40 = # 10)
    15) THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH (34 = # 18)
    16) A VIEW TO A KILL (35 = # 16)
    17) LIVE AND LET DIE (37 = # 14)
    18) OCTOPUSSY (37 = # 15)
    19) DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER (28 = #21)
    20) THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN (28 = #22)
    21) QUANTUM OF SOLACE (35 = #17)
    22) DIE ANOTHER DAY (27 = #23)
    23) MOONRAKER (29 = # 20)

    The first conclusion we can reach from these numbers: DR. NO just can’t catch a break under the Originals’ system! I initially gave it a 7th place finish, but under this system it tumbles to # 19! Most films are within 2 or 3 notches of their initial placement when calculated under the Originals’ system -- but THE SPY WHO LOVED ME moves up substantially under the Originals’ system, as does FOR YOUR EYES ONLY. QUANTUM OF SOLACE also improves markedly under this system…but TOMORROW NEVER DIES is probably the biggest winner here, jumping all the way from an initial placement of #12 to an Originals’ placement of #5! What goes on here?

    I think there are a couple of different factors at play. First of all, my opinion is no more immutable than anyone else's -- I do reserve the right to change my mind from time to time! While I have come to appreciate some of Sir Roger Moore's entries in the Bond canon more than was originally the case, thanks in no small part to my involvement in this project, I also find that my opinion on the subject of Pierce Brosnan's tenure as 007 vacillates far more now than it did originally. I do have a solid fondness for GOLDENEYE, ranking it either # 4 or #6 depending on which scale is being used…and when TND is compared with GE element for element, they are very similar -- with TND slightly edging out GE for me in some ways! I really do appreciate the relative believability of Carver’s media mogul, and the assemblage of his villainous crew, including Dr. Kaufman, Henry Gupta, and Stamper, are very nicely delineated. But when a wider comparison is envisioned, with all 23 movies taken into view, GE still holds a greater charm than most for me, while TND tends to pale in the comparison. Some fans accuse the Brosnan Bond films of simply “checking off the boxes” -- and perhaps there is some validity to that criticism. For me, at least, it seems that TND was able to thrive under a category-by-category evaluation more easily than was the case for the likes of DR. NO. Well, let me state for the record: I appreciate DR. NO in a fashion that TOMORROW NEVER DIES will never be able to approach! I hope that my fellow Bond fans find this comparative evaluation of some interest. Comments, anyone?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Well, let me state for the record: I appreciate DR. NO in a fashion that TOMORROW NEVER DIES will never be able to approach! I hope that my fellow Bond fans find this comparative evaluation of some interest. Comments, anyone?
    While I like TND better than DN for many (possibly dopey) personal reasons, DN is clearly the superior film. It is the only Bond movie that does not depend on a prior knowledge of Bond movies, and probably a big reason that it's my Son's favourite. In trying to be as objective as possible for me, I'd say the three most awesome milestones in the Bond Franchise have been DN, TLD & CR.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited February 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Thanks very much, @BeatlesSansEarmuffs, for your outstanding comparison of your personal rankings with the Originals' rankings! It is quite interesting, and you are correct - the categories we had to use definitely changed things around from our personal rankings at times, or even most of the time. You really put some thought into this; thanks for sharing with us.

    For TND, it is one of my favorite Bond films and I enjoy it pretty much the same or even more than Goldeneye. I rank TND as #6, with Goldeneye as #4 on my list. I feel that TND is Brosnan's personal best portrayal of Bond - he really came into his own in the role in that film; charming, confident, great fights, smooth, and gritty at the right times. Pierce is the reason why I rank that one so highly, though I enjoy Michele Yeoh's Wai Lin a lot, too. Paris was neglible, while Goldeneye had the wonderul Natalya. Both are in my top ten, yes.

    For Dr. No, I definitely appreciate it more than the group Originals' rankings showed. I have it in my top ten (#9 actually on my current list). Like you, I do change my personal rankings from time to time. I agree with you that, "DR. NO just can’t catch a break under the Originals’ system." It didn't. But we know better, right? ;)

    And my other examples are OHMSS and LTK: Both low are my personal list, yet I ranked them higher in my review than I cared to, thanks to the constraints of those categories.

    I look forward to reading others' comments about your list and the points you made, Beatles. And I will happily put you down for suggestion #1 as we vote on what to discuss next.

    Cheers!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Just bumping Beatles' excellent posting to this page:
    I'll be happy to consider the themes suggested -- I'd be willing to jump straight into #2, but probably #1 is the best place to start. Until we are ready to commence with them, however, I have one last bit of "ranking" business to reveal:

    As promised, I have prepared a comparison of my Bond film rankings, compiled prior to my involvement in the “Originals” reviews system, juxtaposed with the rating they received from me in accordance with the system devised by our good friend SirHenry. The number shown on the far left is my initial ranking, then the title, and on the right the total points amassed by my review and the ranking those points would indicate under the SirHenry system. As you can see, I am at least consistent regarding the top three films. After that, things get a little dicey:

    1) GOLDFINGER (47 = # 1 )
    2) FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE (46 = # 2 )
    3) CASINO ROYALE (45 = # 3 )
    4) GOLDENEYE (41 = # 6)
    5) SKYFALL (43 = # 4 )
    6) THUNDERBALL (40 = # 9)
    7) DR. NO (33 = # 19)
    8) THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS (41 = # 7)
    9) ON HER MAJESTY’S SECRET SERVICE (39 = # 11)
    10) LICENSE TO KILL (39 = # 12)
    11) YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE (38 = # 13)
    12) TOMORROW NEVER DIES (42 = # 5)
    13) THE SPY WHO LOVED ME (41 = # 8)
    14) FOR YOUR EYES ONLY (40 = # 10)
    15) THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH (34 = # 18)
    16) A VIEW TO A KILL (35 = # 16)
    17) LIVE AND LET DIE (37 = # 14)
    18) OCTOPUSSY (37 = # 15)
    19) DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER (28 = #21)
    20) THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN (28 = #22)
    21) QUANTUM OF SOLACE (35 = #17)
    22) DIE ANOTHER DAY (27 = #23)
    23) MOONRAKER (29 = # 20)

    The first conclusion we can reach from these numbers: DR. NO just can’t catch a break under the Originals’ system! I initially gave it a 7th place finish, but under this system it tumbles to # 19! Most films are within 2 or 3 notches of their initial placement when calculated under the Originals’ system -- but THE SPY WHO LOVED ME moves up substantially under the Originals’ system, as does FOR YOUR EYES ONLY. QUANTUM OF SOLACE also improves markedly under this system…but TOMORROW NEVER DIES is probably the biggest winner here, jumping all the way from an initial placement of #12 to an Originals’ placement of #5! What goes on here?

    I think there are a couple of different factors at play. First of all, my opinion is no more immutable than anyone else's -- I do reserve the right to change my mind from time to time! While I have come to appreciate some of Sir Roger Moore's entries in the Bond canon more than was originally the case, thanks in no small part to my involvement in this project, I also find that my opinion on the subject of Pierce Brosnan's tenure as 007 vacillates far more now than it did originally. I do have a solid fondness for GOLDENEYE, ranking it either # 4 or #6 depending on which scale is being used…and when TND is compared with GE element for element, they are very similar -- with TND slightly edging out GE for me in some ways! I really do appreciate the relative believability of Carver’s media mogul, and the assemblage of his villainous crew, including Dr. Kaufman, Henry Gupta, and Stamper, are very nicely delineated. But when a wider comparison is envisioned, with all 23 movies taken into view, GE still holds a greater charm than most for me, while TND tends to pale in the comparison. Some fans accuse the Brosnan Bond films of simply “checking off the boxes” -- and perhaps there is some validity to that criticism. For me, at least, it seems that TND was able to thrive under a category-by-category evaluation more easily than was the case for the likes of DR. NO. Well, let me state for the record: I appreciate DR. NO in a fashion that TOMORROW NEVER DIES will never be able to approach! I hope that my fellow Bond fans find this comparative evaluation of some interest. Comments, anyone?

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Birdleson wrote:
    Despite a solid first half, the movie is ruined by an hour long mindless action noise fest.
    You're obviously not a fan of Die Hard or Aliens...
    :))
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Well, to chip in, I suppose Number 1 is the best place to start. I quite like the idea of discussing eras, and directors, but discussing favourite films is probably the best place.

    Also, if anyone wants the title changed to be more pertinent? Just let me know. Obviously we keep Sir Henrey's name, but after that it can be altered slightly if you like @4EverBonded.
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