SirHenryLeeChaChing's For Original Fans - Favorite Moments In NTTD (spoilers)

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  • Posts: 11,425
    Birdleson wrote:
    I feel that he carried the weight of the character in several scenes. The aftermath of Paris's death, the killing of Elektra and the, apparent, firing squad post-PTS in DAD. I think he handled those moments with a restrained intensity that fit the character.

    I have to say I feel those scenes were attrociously acted. I'm not saying it just to have dig at Pierce. I just think they're dreadful.
  • Posts: 908
    Getafix wrote:
    I personally doubt the producers lost faith in Dalton himself as Bond. The ligitations dragged out too long. Media do stir up trouble when there is none (just as Mr. Carver, right?). As for popular polls saying people wanted Pierce, yes that happened but I don't put much stock in that either. That will always continue, especially now with the internet. And I do not think LTK did so very poorly at the box office, although it was hurt by the summer blockbusters at that same time.

    I think you've done an exemplary job of piecing together the behind-the-scenes manuevering here, @4Ever. Well done! Given the complimentary things Dalton has always had to say about the Broccolis over the years, I think it's pretty obvious that he had Eon's full support through his entire tenure as Bond. I don't think MGM comes off well at all in this regard, though...if there was indeed behind-the-scenes pressure being brought to bear on Pierce's behalf, this is where I'd look. All of that being as it may, we must admire Dalton's sense of professionalism. Given the pressures he must have been feeling, TD made his exit from the role of Bond with exceptional grace, leaving Brosnan a clear field to pick up the role and make it his own. How well Pierce succeeded is the very next topic on our plates...so dig in with enthusiasm, everybody, our next course is about to be served!

    Sorry to throw this into the midsts of the Brosnan era, but I found a Dalton interview the other day where Tim states that far from being enocuraged to leave, EON wanted him to commit to more than one more film. He claims this was part of the reason he left. He was up for one more but didn't want to commit to more than that. This kind of makes sense, and could have led to EON agreeing it was time for him to leave. They were trying to re-establish the series after a long break and needed the actor to commit to more than one film, otherwise they'd face the prospect of starting the rebuilding all over again with the next movie.

    I think he is really,really kidding himself here. The moderate success of his movies,as well as his age at the time of GE would suggest otherwise.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 11,425
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    I personally doubt the producers lost faith in Dalton himself as Bond. The ligitations dragged out too long. Media do stir up trouble when there is none (just as Mr. Carver, right?). As for popular polls saying people wanted Pierce, yes that happened but I don't put much stock in that either. That will always continue, especially now with the internet. And I do not think LTK did so very poorly at the box office, although it was hurt by the summer blockbusters at that same time.

    I think you've done an exemplary job of piecing together the behind-the-scenes manuevering here, @4Ever. Well done! Given the complimentary things Dalton has always had to say about the Broccolis over the years, I think it's pretty obvious that he had Eon's full support through his entire tenure as Bond. I don't think MGM comes off well at all in this regard, though...if there was indeed behind-the-scenes pressure being brought to bear on Pierce's behalf, this is where I'd look. All of that being as it may, we must admire Dalton's sense of professionalism. Given the pressures he must have been feeling, TD made his exit from the role of Bond with exceptional grace, leaving Brosnan a clear field to pick up the role and make it his own. How well Pierce succeeded is the very next topic on our plates...so dig in with enthusiasm, everybody, our next course is about to be served!

    Sorry to throw this into the midsts of the Brosnan era, but I found a Dalton interview the other day where Tim states that far from being enocuraged to leave, EON wanted him to commit to more than one more film. He claims this was part of the reason he left. He was up for one more but didn't want to commit to more than that. This kind of makes sense, and could have led to EON agreeing it was time for him to leave. They were trying to re-establish the series after a long break and needed the actor to commit to more than one film, otherwise they'd face the prospect of starting the rebuilding all over again with the next movie.

    I think he is really,really kidding himself here. The moderate success of his movies,as well as his age at the time of GE would suggest otherwise.

    I share some of your scepticism. Although it seems odd that he should outright lie about it.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Weakest of the lot? I think that's taking things just a bit too far.

    I realise that some may not like GE but I genuinely don't understand how some people can think a film like GE is weaker than the unfunny, sluggish, lazy, drab, boring film that is MWTGG...Christopher Lee or not.

    I...just don't get it.

    Ditto DAF, whose fat, bloated leading man is a shadow of his former self and hardly Bond-like at all.

    GE did, at the very least, try to re-establish the series after a long gap and I think it succeeded. If DAF or MWTGG tried to do the same I feel they would have failed spectacularly.

    Even if people didn't like Brosnan in the role surely the stronger cast of actors around him elevates it above the dated, uninspired rubbish that is those two films.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Ah Brosnan, the greatest hits Bond Mk I. That said, Tomorrow Never Dies was the first Bond that I saw on the big screen, has remained one of my favourite Bond films and is one that I will continue to defend, action heavy 2nd half or not.

    1. Tomorrow Never Dies
    2. Goldeneye
    3. The World Is Not Enough
    4. Die Another Day


    And as for Moneypenny, I couldn't stand Samantha Bond's version. Yes, I get it, it's the 1990's, they didn't have to shove modern Moneypenny, down my throught. I would rather watch Pamela Salem's Monneypenny over Bond's anyway. So it is a 'No' from me.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Getafix wrote:
    Birdleson wrote:
    I feel that he carried the weight of the character in several scenes. The aftermath of Paris's death, the killing of Elektra and the, apparent, firing squad post-PTS in DAD. I think he handled those moments with a restrained intensity that fit the character.

    I have to say I feel those scenes were attrociously acted. I'm not saying it just to have dig at Pierce. I just think they're dreadful.
    Sorry Alfalfa, I'm not a member of "The He-Man Brosnan Haters Club."
    :))
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 2,341
    In regard to @4EverBonded question regarding Samantha Bond as Moneypenny: I dislike her immensly. I never understood why they replaced Caroline Bliss from the two Dalton films. She was pretty, had a down home "Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm" look. The kind of nice "girl next door". Maybe she was not avaliable when the casting of GE was going down. Thus we got stuck with Samantha. I agree with the late great SirHenry: She's smutty looking.

    @4EverBonded yes, my comments about the weak and lousy Bond women applies to Hatcher, Richards and Berry. I liked Sophie and always felt she was the best thing about TWINE.
    A big problem with Jinx is the trap that writers fall into with African-American actresses: they feel they have to make her sassy which is bullshyt in my book. African-English actresses like Naomi Harris in SF is not hindered by writers who feel thay have to add "soul" to the character's dialogue thus playing into racial stereotypes (WTF?) and end up with really bad cliched dialogue. Along with Halle's crappy performance the dialogue reeks of road kill skunk.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Your Momma.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Some people can't stand Samantha, I can't stand Caroline. Horrid actress, horrid Moneypenny. She was just a stereotypical 80s secretary and the way she looks lovingly at Bond and sighs dramatically? Please...I don't buy it for a moment. Miss Smallbone had EXACTLY the same type of deep over-the-top sigh in her OP scene.

    "I'll file that with some of the other secret information around here"

    What an inspired line reading. Grrrr!!!!

    Bliss is the worst Moneypenny without question.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 2,341
    chrisisall wrote:
    Your Momma.

    Thats what I'm talking about! lol

    Back to Brosnan, he just never brought anything new or broke any new ground with the role. Roger many have been tongue-in-cheek at times but it was him and he made it his own. He took the role by the horns, and ran with it. He played to his strengths (like the other actors before and after him).
    Brosnan was "just there". He hung around for four films, he was in shape to do a 5th film but luckily EON decided to move on.

    And of course, we all know that Brosnan is the only Bond actor who was actually fired. From an actor who the public cheered and begged for, to the inglorious class of being the only Bond "let go" before he was ready to relinquish the part. I find that interesting.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Bliss is the worst Moneypenny without question.
    I disagree. She was so beautiful....
  • Posts: 11,189
    She was pretty but nothing special. As I said, an 80s "geeky secretary" caricature.
  • Posts: 11,425
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    In regard to @4EverBonded question regarding Samantha Bond as Moneypenny: I dislike her immensly. I never understood why they replaced Caroline Bliss from the two Dalton films. She was pretty, had a down home "Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm" look. The kind of nice "girl next door". Maybe she was not avaliable when the casting of GE was going down. Thus we got stuck with Samantha. I agree with the late great SirHenry: She's smutty looking.

    @4EverBonded yes, my comments about the weak and lousy Bond women applies to Hatcher, Richards and Berry. I liked Sophie and always felt she was the best thing about TWINE.
    A big problem with Jinx is the trap that writers fall into with African-American actresses: they feel they have to make her sassy which is bullshyt in my book. African-English actresses like Naomi Harris in SF is not hindered by writers who feel thay have to add "soul" to the character's dialogue thus playing into racial stereotypes (WTF?) and end up with really bad cliched dialogue. Along with Halle's crappy performance the dialogue reeks of road kill skunk.

    Interesting observations.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    BAIN123 wrote:
    She was pretty but nothing special.
    I thought she was especially pretty.
  • Posts: 11,189
    chrisisall wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    She was pretty but nothing special.
    I thought she was especially pretty.

    She's nice, but I never really fancied her myself.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    She was pretty but nothing special.
    I thought she was especially pretty.

    She's nice, but I never really fancied her myself.

    Yeah, I dated her and she was no great shakes. ;)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    She was pretty but nothing special.
    I thought she was especially pretty.

    She's nice, but I never really fancied her myself.

    Yeah, I dated her and she was no great shakes. ;)

    Post of the Day folks! =))
  • Posts: 7,653
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    She was pretty but nothing special.
    I thought she was especially pretty.

    She's nice, but I never really fancied her myself.

    Yeah, I dated her and she was no great shakes. ;)

    No stiring either? :!!

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited March 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Waking up and now I want a Bloody Mary for breakfast. A spicy one, with large Spanish olives thrown in, please. Thanks! Why? Because I want a grown up drink now after reading your comments, and I (sadly) don't enjoy vodka. A nice gin martini will do, also. To go with my Eggs Mathis (chunks of smoked cheese, wrapped in prosciutto and topped with hot scrambled eggs, on a lightly toasted English muffin). And where is that big fat Cuban cigar? Ok, just kidding about that one; I don't smoke. Maybe I'll just toss it in the trash can, a la Pierce.

    You guys crack me up. I see 26 new messages for this thread and think, Wow people are really arguing discussing Pierce, and this could be interesting, thoughtful ... or ugly.

    I forgot how cute you all can be with your humor. :O) "Your momma?" I say, "Yeah, baby!" Oh, I think we all agree about Halle's contribution participation in DAD. Caroline Bliss - pretty or not pretty? I say tomato and you say tomahto. She was quite lovely, but the darn script had her be a pitiful, annoyingly cliched caricature.

    OK, I will tally up the Monpenny votes shortly. Carry on, all! B-)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Birdleson wrote:
    I feel that he carried the weight of the character in several scenes. The aftermath of Paris's death, the killing of Elektra and the, apparent, firing squad post-PTS in DAD. I think he handled those moments with a restrained intensity that fit the character.

    I quite agree with you about these scenes, @Birdleson. Pierce had some fine moments, which is easy for many to forget in hindsight (rather similar to how quickly or easily one can forget Roger's well played serious moments). There are many problems with DAD, but I don't fault Pierce's performance in that one.


  • edited March 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Here's the scene when he's traded for Zao:



    I think he sells that scene quite well on the whole. He's less successful in the following scene on the ship.

  • Posts: 11,425
    God, he's awful. The groan as the needle goes in his arm is classic Brosnan - everything's always overdone. He really was bad.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Yeah he overacts a bit when the needle goes in, but I didn't think it was that bad. To be honest I never noticed it until people on here pointed it out.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited March 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Thanks for that, @BAIN123. I appreciate it. Brosnan is quite good in DAD and in this scene, Getafix; you and I see things very, very differently is all. We all understand you do not enjoy his Bond.

    I appreciated the videos of Moore a few pages back, too; but let me just say this:

    That just reminded me: I would appreciate if no one posted any of the many stills that abound showing the infamous, "pain face." Not on this thread, please.
    Leave that for other threads, of which there are plenty. Why? Because I wouldn't post photos of Connery with his silly face at the guards or any other Bond caught in a still that makes them look silly or bad.
    That has never happened on this thread before (I don't think the shots of Connery as Zoroz or whatever the character was in that nonBond film ever graced these threads, either), and I want it to stay that way. I don't want that to be what this thread turns into. Got it? Thanks, everybody.

    We did turn Beam into a walrus a while back, but that was not catching a Bond actor in a still that makes him or her look bad.

    Discussion works well. Other clips and photos are fine. That goes for all the Bonds.
    Argue with me on that point as you will, but I am not changing that. This thread has not deteriorated since SirHenry started it and it would be a genuine shame if it turned into just a thread like so many others.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I think this was one of his best scenes as Bond:

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited March 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Well, I agree. I also like his scenes with Judi when he was still in the prison.
    Overall, DAD is a messy piece of unenjoyable action with tons of bad dialog and an atrocious Bond girl in Jinx - but I do feel that Pierce gave a good performance throughout it, which is easy to get overlooked because so much of that film was just ... wrong.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 11,425
    Haven't you already just posted that!?

    I'm trying to think of a scene where I think he did a good job. I struggle, but there were some enjoyable moments during his tenure - literally moments. I think the sequence in Bilbao at the start of TWINE is good. It's not demanding acting exactly, but he convinces there. I also thought the PTS in TND was pretty effective, until the infamous PF kicks in.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Getafix wrote:
    God, he's awful. The groan as the needle goes in his arm is classic Brosnan - everything's always overdone. He really was bad.

    Well we all can't be very chipper if we spent 14 months being tortured in North Korea. Though Pierce was lucky he wasn't captured today, he'd be forced to get a Kim Jong Un haircut. :))
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 11,189
    The clip was meant to be the Dr Kaulfman scene. Have just edited it.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Murdock wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    God, he's awful. The groan as the needle goes in his arm is classic Brosnan - everything's always overdone. He really was bad.

    Well we all can't be very chipper if we spent 14 months being tortured in North Korea. Though Pierce was lucky he wasn't captured today, he'd be forced to get a Kim Jong Un haircut. :))

    He doesn't really convey any sense that he's been a prisoner for 14 months. As usual with Brozzer, something else other than himself - i.e. the costume and haircut - have to do the heavy-lifting in terms of conveying what's going on. That hair really was dreadful. Reminds me of how he looked at his first press conference as Bond. Might actually have been better if they'd given him a proper short crop.
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