SirHenryLeeChaChing's For Original Fans - Favorite Moments In NTTD (spoilers)

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  • Posts: 2,341
    I understand that the origin plan was to have the first three Craig films to be a trilogy. Whatever but in the end they decided to toss this idea aside and tie up loose ends with Qos and introduce a new villain and scheme for SF.

    I read where Wilson was pretty raw after QoS and needed a break between films, thus the four year wait between QoS and SF instead of the two years we had in the past.

    Maybe we will see more of Quantum in the next film. Notice how in DN, Dr No mentions that he is a member of SPECTRE. (in the novel, he is a freelance crook) In FRWL we see more emphasis on SPECTRE. Then in GF we are given a break from this organization.
    After two films of battling Quantum, we got a hiatus in SF. Will the next film deal more with Quantum?
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 2,341
    Birdleson wrote:
    This was the word EON put out in 2010:

    http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=65332

    Thanks for posting this. And again we ask ourselves: Why on earth did Salzman choose not to sell his interest to Cubby back in 1974? The franchise would have been better served had Cubby owned everything instead of being tied to the headaches of the studio as his partner.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Birdleson wrote:
    DR. NO was a big hit. QOS, is considered a, relative, failure. I don't see EON looking back. Critically and financially, whether you agree with the reasoning or not, I'm pretty sure that they don't want to put the word Quantum in front of audiences again. They are looking to build on the success of SKYFALL. I seriously doubt we'll see it again, though I wouldn't mind. And if we do, you won't see it mentioned in any of the trailers or other publicity vehicles.

    Well said!
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    When it was announced that Pierce Brosnan was not coming back I was disappointed to say the least. I thought that he had one last mission in him. And so did he, if media reports were to believed. After DAD Brosnan deserved one final mission. Kind of FYEO after MR.

    But it wasn't to be. When I first heard Craig was cast, I felt uneasy. Craig didn't have the classic look of Bond. But I held off from judging him. Craig was understandably nervous in the first press conference. (You know the one, where he arrived in Royal Navy boats, in which he was unfairly lambasted for wearing a life-jacket.) I was cautiously impressed, even more so when he mentioned Fleming. Craig was not paying Fleming lip service it seemed.

    I followed the pre-production of CR more closely than before or since. It was my first début actor, and it had been four years since DAD. I was even more impressed by Craig during the shooting of CR, what with his dedication to the role, and his gruelling fitness regime.

    When the teaser trailer came out, I was blown away. It had all the classic hallmarks of the Bond films, but it was so different. More brutal and visceral.

    Come première night. My local cinema laid out roulette tables and blackjack tables in the forecourt. So many people were in fancy dress or tuxedos. Probably the best night in the cinema for me. Craig sold me after the PTS. "Yes, considerably" then the embryonic gun-barrel, then the rip-roaring YKMN. Bloody brilliant. The films sense of purpose, elegance, the mature humour, which is in contrast to the Brosnan era humour, was a revelation. Add in the fact that it was a smart updating of one Fleming's best novels, the cast, the cinematography, the music etc. one has one of the greatest Bond films, probably the best since the sixties. The atmosphere of the audience was positively electric.

    However, the only thing I can reproach this film with, is the scene where Bond breaks into M's apartment. Fleming's 007 would never have been so disrespectful, and as Bond is a military man, he wouldn't have lasted long in the military. I can almost overlook the scene, I suppose that Bond is allowing M to follow him, through her laptop, but it's a tenuous link at that.

    Which brings me on to Craig. We got to see him evolve from a proto/rough Bond into the Bond we know and love. He was brutal, visceral, great in the action scenes, and breathed new life into the character, being dark, damaged and dangerous.

    When QoS came out I was left feeling deflated. I knew that it was almost impossible to top CR, but something was missing. I thought to myself "was that it?" I thought Craig-Bond had finished his evolution. But in QoS he seemed to have regressed. I was puzzled. QoS is so bleak. Usually a Bond picture feels me with a warm feeling inside. But not so with QoS.

    One day, after an unsuccessful job interview, I was in town, and had some time to kill. So I decided to see QoS again in the cinema, and I paid particular attention to Craig's performance and Forster's direction. Despite some wayward editing choices, I was surprised how much I enjoyed QoS. I used to think that Craig's performance was a regression of his Casino Royale performance; in fact I have been know to describe his performance in QoS, as monotone and robotic. Craig's performance was quiet, as is befitting for a man who's love died in such tragic circumstances. Which brings me onto the scene when Craig and Camille are sat in a car, at the end of the film. They both have a deep understanding, both have lost someone (I thought Bond gives up on vengeance in that moment, seeing how Camille felt after killing Medrano, how empty she seemed). Then Bond kisses Camille – that the only way that he's able to connect with a beautiful woman – and I found that heartbreaking, and I did not want to Bond, in that moment; Fleming's creation laid bare. My perception of Craig's performance in QoS has changed over the years – now I find it subtly nuanced, and is a highlight of the film.

    After another four years we get to Skyfall. The audience in the cinema, when I saw the film for the first time, were not excitable as was the case on CR. Well not until the last scene, anyway. Now that is how to end a Bond film!

    Skyfall is sitting pretty in my top ten, and I was very much entertained by it. The casting (especially Silva, who is, quite simply fantastic. Camp, unerring and quite, quite mad), cinematography, the direction - Mendes' does an excellent job of directing SF, despite it's running time, I was engrossed throughout. Indeed, Mendes got just the balance just right, between action, romance, violence, sophistication, style, humour, tension and intrigue. Pace is good throughout, and he lets the characters breath, and to the editing, Baird does a very good job; quick and efficient. In fact Baird and Mendes reminded me of the dynamic that Terence Young and Peter Hunt used to have.

    Moreover, the action is top notch, as was the script, in parts anyway - some of Eve's lines came out a little flat; it as if Harris was trying too hard, and some of her and Bond's flirting was a little "clunky". I could see what they were trying to do, back to the sixties in terms of the characters dialogue, but it didn't have the same class and wryness. It reminded me of the exchanges in the Brosnan era.

    The plot were Silva gets "captured" was a bit weak, though (the holding cell wasn't very secure was it, leading down into the tube...) I detected the whiff of Purvis and Wade in that sequence, but all in all I felt it all hung together rather nicely. 

    Although Skyfall is slightly superficial. Well, that isn't fair. Maybe I was slightly disappointed that I saw everything on the first time; on the second time I was expecting to go deeper in the Bond psyche. Like QoS; I discover something new each time I see it, whilst with Skyfall it doesn't happen. 

    Bits that I didn't enjoy - well, other than the plot inconsistency of Silva's plan in London, there wasn't too much; I felt that Bond didn't have to fall down a waterfall in the PTS, (that seemed like overkill to me); the bit where the CGI helicopters show up in Silva's island was a bit too much Austin Powers for me, especially with the music playing on top of it, and finally the punning, in the second half, really dilutes the earnest interpretation that Craig has given us. Still these are musings of a Bond aficionado, and do not really detract from the film. 

    Anyway, the reason I enjoy Skyfall so much, was the fact that Ian Fleming's spirit haunts the film, which is surprising, as they have no Fleming material left to work from. Consider, the opening speech by Silva, like the backstory to Fleming's villains; Bond not on his best form, i.e. FRWL, TB, YOLT, TMWTGG; Bond's apathy; the Komodo Dragons; Skyfall Lodge seems to be something Fleming imagined. In fact didn't Fleming grow up in a house, similar to Skyall? Also the combination of Adele's Skyfall, and Daniel Kleinman's fantastic title design, makes it quite possibly my favourite one-two of the series, only rivalled by CR, Spy, YOLT and OHMSS in the quality stakes.

    We really could have done with an extra Bond film in 2010, to see Craig-Bond at the height of his powers. Still, I more than fine with Craig's journey in Skyfall. The PTS is Bond at his best, until M loses her nerve. "Take the bloody shot!" indeed. From there we have apathetic Bond, drunk Bond and patriotic Bond. From here we get to see Bond pick himself up, despite Mallory's misgivings, back to his very best. (you know other than him letting M die of course...)

    From Casino Royale to Skyfall, I'm pleased with Craig's evolution of Bond; all we need from Craig's Bond is a little more joie de vivre, and gentlemanly conduct and I'll be golden. Although Craig doesn't have the charm of his illustrious predecessors. Which is strange. I suppose Craig is darkly charismatic, but he lacks charm, imo. If he had continued from his performance in CR, i.e. more charm and elegance, I would have been even more enamoured with Craig, because at the end of CR I thought Craig's Bond was the Bond of old. Craig set his target up to high. Still the Craig era has two more films to go, and with his Bond growing all the time, I could be about to eat some humble pie.

    Thank you for bearing with me in my rather rambling take on the Craig era!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    The Craig era.
    For me, this era began with a short thought going through my mind while watching Tombraider: 'hey, that guy could be Bond. Nah, Brosnan is good and here to stay'. When I heard Craig was to be Bond, and this might be because of his performance in Layer Cake, I took the opportunity to watch it, and was convinced. Yes, this guy could play Bond. i never understood all the vitriol, but i did like Craig's reaction, when he said it meant he'd do his utter most to silence the critics.

    As I was about to go on a trip that would send me around the world, I thought it very Bondian to make a challenge and see who on the KTBEU forums could see this film in the most countries. I was a little dissapointed nobody would take on the challange. very odd.

    Anyway, into the film. I already knew it would start in black and white, but I was still wondering, will it last long? The pTS was hard, gritty, and very, very exciting. Then the titles, as classy as they could be, and then that rundown of Molakka. Bond most definately was back! no CGI, real cranes, real Pacific Ocean in the background, and real adrenaline pumping through my vains! I've been talking about Bondian moments for quite some time now. CR has plenty! The cranes, his arrival in the Bahama's (love the floatplane), his flirting with the receptionist (oh so lovely...), his flirting with Solange to get info, chasing... well, anyway, you get the point. CR was a hit in a way I couldn't have imagined. And i got to see it on four continents!

    QoS I went to see with my girlfriend and a friend who'd just come over from Singapore. He tried to stay awake, but failed. The carchase was quite unfollowable. Especially in the first viewing. The film was too short, and often a bit too hectic. Still, what a film! again, enough Bondian moments to rank it high, as that's what counts for me. Tosca, the horserace in Sienna, And in second, third, etc. viewing i could appreciate the car chase, which is amazing! I love this film, I only hate the titles and title 'song'. Thankfully, I can skip that every viewing on dvd.

    Running out of time. I'll do Skyfall tomorrow.
  • Posts: 2,341
    I took @Birdleson recommendation and watched CR and after about 20 minutes, watched QoS. Did my opinion of the film change any? I dunno. I did doze off near the climax at that crazy resort in the desert. I awoke to see the fight between Bond and Greene. I am surprised that this battle never stayed with me. How could one forget a fight between Bond and the main villain?

    Anyway I still find Camille annoying and one of my least favorite Bond girls. I did notice that her quest for revenge runs parallel to Bond's quest for revenge and after seeing her empty feeling at the end this touched Bond. He no longer feels the desire to kill Vesper's slimy boyfriend.

    In this trilogy of Craig films we are treated to a real arc for our hero. He is not a one dimensional hero or bland dummy to act as a catalyst to get the ball rolling and manipulate the gadgets. We see the brutal government hit man from CR slowly evolving into the character that Fleming wrote about sixty years ago, the character we caught glimpses of during Dalton's run.

    I have to say this but since GF, the producers on many occasions ignored the character of Bond as the gadgets took over as the real stars of the franchise. Sure, we got some films that had "heart" but throughout the seventies and especially the nineties, we were treated to this diluted Bond, one dimensional.

    Now with Craig, I am glad to see EON paying more attention to the complexities of our gentleman spy. CR, SF and even QoS have proven that they can turn out a quality product that covers other aspects of Fleming's world.

    Having a good and dedicated thespian like Daniel Craig also does wonders. After three films, like the time following GF, what direction will the series go now? I think we will see more of the gentlemanly side of Craig's Bond as his arch is complete.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    It seems i had the full story of the Craig era in my head yesterday, but i can't for the life of me remember what I wanted to say about Skyfall. I do remember being very much pleased with the film, feeling it had that sixties vibe to it. The record breaking was fun and, for me at least, a smack in the face of those who still complained about Craig. The more subtle humour and sometimes more complicated plots apparently being lost on too many. Still, perhaps because of my personal situation, I didn't go and see it more often and I still don't own it on dvd or blu-ray. Which i find odd, somehow. I should go and buy it and see it again, as with the new house and the new girlfriend the TV has re-entered my life. We'll see.

    Anyway, for me, Craig's era is the new golden age. Perhaps i should see SF as Craig's GF (the one Conners did that doesn't hold my attention the way it should) and the next one will be his Thunderball. If so, Conners may no longer be my favorite Bond.. Let's just hope they'll let him do 2 more in the coming 4 years. That should be enough. The one following him will have the same huge shoes to fill as Lazenby had, and then Roger Moore.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Birdleson wrote:
    I have already detailed how disconnected I felt during the Brosnan years. I enjoyed some of those films, and parts of others, but I never felt that those movies were being made with traditional hardcore fans like myself in mind, or that they it was my Bond.

    This is how I feel about the current era of the series. They're successful, but they don't look or feel like Bond to me. The Brosnan films might not all be amongst the best in the series, but they still had that Bond feel.

    Back when Craig was announced, and swiftly crucified in the press, I was supportive of his casting. All the talk of getting back to Fleming, lured me in. But now, each film pushes me further away.
  • Sorry I don't have the time to be here as often as I'd like, @Birdleson. Hope this satisfies your desire for one Originals' perspective:

    As far as I’m concerned, right now is a great time to be a Bond fan. Although I’d hesitate to make any definitive pronouncements while his tenure is still under way, I think that Daniel Craig may well prove to be the best James Bond since Sean Connery left the role. Out of the three 007 films Craig has produced so far, two of them are Top Ten entries in my evaluation, and the third was …an interesting experiment, flawed by an inappropriate director and an unfinished script.

    I’d hate to repeat anything already posted in my earlier reviews of Craig’s 3 Bond films so far…so I’ll just say this: some people accused Pierce Brosnan of being a “check all the boxes” Bond. For the record, I do not agree, although I do understand where they’re coming from. Nowadays, there are some who would claim that Daniel Craig’s Bond does not conform to their pre-determined ideas of the character. He does not meet their expectations in one fashion or another. I suspect that some naysayers belong to both camps: they will happily fault Brosnan for checking all the boxes, and at the same time will fault Craig for not checking enough of those same boxes. I submit to you: these people are not thinking matters through very consistently.

    I was satisfied with the Bond Brosnan presented while he had the role…but I am even more pleased with the character as currently portrayed by Daniel Craig and his various collaborators. I look forward eagerly to at least two more films with DC as James Bond, especially now that he has his own supporting cast fully assembled. It’s a great time to be a Bond fan, now more than at any time since the mid-60s…as far as I’m concerned, I hope James Bond will ALWAYS return, and when finally the come times for DC to discard the tuxedo and shoulder holster, then I hope his successor is up to the standard Craig is setting right now.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited April 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Hullo, fellow and sister agents! I'm back ... although only temporarily. B-)
    I will be able to read and post a bit tomorrow afternoon at work. However, my home computer is being changed out and I may not be able to spend time on the forum at home until late Sunday or Monday. I am unsure. I hope so! I am actually logging off my computer pretty soon and will not have internet access at home. :( (Time to bring out all the favorite books and dvds!)

    I have really enjoyed reading your comments, especially what you thought of Craig before CR and after viewing it, plus your take on his other films. Thanks very much to @Birdleson, @OHMSS69, @royale65, @CommanderRoss, @BeatlesSandEarMuffs, @Getafix and @MajorDSmythe.

    I feel sure that many of us appreciate QOS more after repeated viewings at home. But it remains quite a step down, in my opinion. I am glad that many people enjoyed Skyfall because I like it tremendously. Casino Royale is surely one of the best Bond films ever. Any further comments about the three films, altogether or separately, are very welcome.

    Before I sign off for tonight, I want to ask one question for you all to answer, if you would be so kind: :-bd

    1) In a few words, or a couple of paragraphs, what elements do you really want to have in Bond 24? I know there is a thread on that - but I am asking this now on this thread because we have just been giving detailed thought to Craig's three current films. Logically, we are primed to have some idea of what we want in Bond 24. And we are talking about Craig's era, so what is next?
    And I'm asking our regular posters here, especially the Originals since this is our thread in particular, but other members feel free to post, also.
    When you think of Craig's 3 films so far, what do you truly want to see in the next one? What elements, tone, aspects of it are things you'd really love to have or that you feel are important? Bullet points are fine. Here are mine:

    What I want in Bond 24, the key elements~

    1) Good balance with humor, action, serious tone - I think Skyfall had a pretty good balance, so I want something similar (especially tricky with humor ...)
    2) A compelling story that has suspense and excitement; in other words a great script
    3) A strong villain (we just had one, and I don't want them to go over the top or really underplay it with the next one)
    4) I want a lightness and healthy joie de vivre to this Bond - when not dealing with the serious, gritty fights or suspenseful action (I want those, too). I want Bond to have more fun and enjoyment - bring back the sparkle, have him more comfortable in a tux (for example), let him end up with the main Bond girl (oh, I really want that!) ... but still have a decent, and serious enough story happening. Balance is such a key word!
    5) A great Bond girl - no bimbo, not merely eye candy, with the script giving her decent lines and a good role.
    6) More outstanding cinematography
    7) A great Bond theme song and a better (than Skyfall) score

    Ok, that's enough for now. Thanks so much for participating. I'll return soon - and I look forward to reading your new posts at work tomorrow a.m.

    Cheers!

    :)>-
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Cannot find a single fault in your wishes. I can sign that.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    @4Ever indeed, as @Thunders has said, a very complete list. I'd add that I'd want the Bond girl, let's say more 'rounded', better 'in shape'.

    I'd also prefer the plot to be a normal mission, like Thunderball, DAF or FRWL, where Bond gets his orders from M in his office. Nothing aimed at MI6 and no more moles.

    And more of Daniel's dry humour, which fits a British spy perfectly, imo.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 2,341
    I agree with @4Ever list and I would like to toss in my 3 cents for what its worth.
    A Classic Gunbarrel at the beginning Lately EON likes putting it at the end of the film. Like most purists, I prefer it at the beginning. And use the classic gunbarrel that was invented by old Maury Bender. I miss that look.

    Lets return to the old ways in regard to Mi6 personnel notably Q, M, and Moneypenny. I want to see Naomi, Fiennes, and the new Q but just keep them grounded at Mi6. No field work for Q or M. M gives Bond his assignment, Moneypenny has her playful banter, Q arms Bond. Period.

    Eliojfor as the Main Villian we have all heard the scuttlebutt and we hope EON can land this fine actor. I'm sure he has the chops and can deliver like our favorite baddies, Auric Goldfinger, Julius No, Francisco Scaramanga, Alec Trevelyn....

  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    A Classic Gunbarrel at the beginning
    Count me in for this one as well. The funny thing to me is that I don't think that there are many people who actually prefer it at the end of the film. It seems to me that most fans either want it at the beginning or don't care if it is there at all. So who is EON really catering to by slipping it in at the end like that? It just seems like they don't want to use it anymore but they "compromise" as to not anger the fans too much. To that I say put it at the beginning where it belongs or don't use it at all.


    4) I want a lightness and healthy joie de vivre to this Bond - when not dealing with the serious, gritty fights or suspenseful action (I want those, too). I want Bond to have more fun and enjoyment - bring back the sparkle, have him more comfortable in a tux (for example), let him end up with the main Bond girl (oh, I really want that!) ... but still have a decent, and serious enough story happening. Balance is such a key word!
    I couldn't agree with you more. I really have enjoyed the Craig era thus far but I'm a little burnt out now with the focus on Bond's psyche or having Bond battle his inner demons etc... Let's get back to a good old adventure where the focus is on the mission. This doesn't mean that you have to lose the serious tone or make things way over the top. I would also like to see some more romance and/or some lighthearted sexual escapades. As you also mentioned, a great Bond girl is a must.


    7) A great Bond theme song and a better (than Skyfall) score
    Agreed but I'd prefer if Adele doesn't return. At least not for the next one. Mix it up a little! If they want to bring her back later on then I'm okay with that.


    OHMSS69 wrote:
    Lets return to the old ways in regard to Mi6 personnel notably Q, M, and Moneypenny. I want to see Naomi, Fiennes, and the new Q but just keep them grounded at Mi6. No field work for Q or M. M gives Bond his assignment, Moneypenny has her playful banter, Q arms Bond. Period.
    Amen to that. I don't think that we will get our wish though.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Birdleson wrote:
    I have already detailed how disconnected I felt during the Brosnan years. I enjoyed some of those films, and parts of others, but I never felt that those movies were being made with traditional hardcore fans like myself in mind, or that they it was my Bond.

    This is how I feel about the current era of the series. They're successful, but they don't look or feel like Bond to me. The Brosnan films might not all be amongst the best in the series, but they still had that Bond feel.

    Back when Craig was announced, and swiftly crucified in the press, I was supportive of his casting. All the talk of getting back to Fleming, lured me in. But now, each film pushes me further away.

    So as long as the films have cliches and subtley like a Sledgehammer they seem more like Bond films?

    The Brosnan era was just cookie cutter lack of imagination production line yet you favour it to the Craig era, I find that strange coming from such a big Dalton advocate.

    The Bond feel you say is just a sheen to make bunch of generic action fodder look like a Bond film, at least the Craig era is trying to strike out it's own and doesn't need tick the box moments to persuade you that you are watching a James Bond film, by that opinion you are all in favour of elements rather than the actual substance of the product.
  • Posts: 11,189
    To be honest I think what it comes down to is that Smythe just doesn't like Craig in the lead role. No offence Major but I suspect if Dalts was the lead in the otherwise same films you would be much kinder.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited April 2014 Posts: 4,043
    That is what I suspect as well but saying you think the Brosnan era is more Bond like than Craig's set you up to being someone who will be persuaded they are watching because all the cliches are thrown at the screen.

    To be honest quite few Dalton fans just have sour grapes because Craig succeeded where Dalton didn't by getting worldwide acclaim and success.

    As much as I rate Dalton it's his Bond that I really like, even his 2 films have issues, uneven tones or just adhering too much to the formula for his take to have truly worked.

    I think Dalton fans would have loved the tone of the Craig films with Dalton in but feel he was dealt a raw deal and that Craig has been given the keys to the castle whereas Dalton just got it on loan and that hurts.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 3,566
    As ever, @4Ever, you are totally on-the-mark. I think most of us can sign off on your list of desired elements for Bond 24. Two points stand out for me: the first being the need for a great script. As much as I enjoyed Skyfall, there are a few points where I think the script could have been improved, notably with Severine's early demise and then with Silva's too-easy escape from his cell at MI6 hq -- I wouldn't have thought this WWII era facility would have been quite as computer-accessible! Still, Skyfall did have a great villain and a nice balance of humor-to-serious action...but point 4 is the one I feel needs to be heard most clearly by the good folks at Eon Productions. It's time for Bond to have a little fun while saving the world! They can put the gunbarrel sequence wherever they want, as far as I'm concerned -- as long as Bond ends the film in a loving embrace with his female co-star this time around!
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Shardlake wrote:
    So as long as the films have cliches and subtley like a Sledgehammer they seem more like Bond films?

    The Brosnan era was just cookie cutter lack of imagination production line yet you favour it to the Craig era, I find that strange coming from such a big Dalton advocate.

    The Bond feel you say is just a sheen to make bunch of generic action fodder look like a Bond film, at least the Craig era is trying to strike out it's own and doesn't need tick the box moments to persuade you that you are watching a James Bond film, by that opinion you are all in favour of elements rather than the actual substance of the product.

    Yes, I would favour the cookie cutter style of the Brosnan films. I watch Bond films for the elements that helped make the series what it is, as well as for Bond himself. Is it really a bad thing that I want the elements that are were the cornerstone of the series for 40 years, and made the films stand out from every other action/adventure/thriller series since?

    Also, I don't understand what being a Dalton fan has to do with Brosnan v Craig. Unlike his successor, Dalton took the role in a different direction to his predecessors, yet, the Bond elements stayed (just in different quantities; toned down humour).
    BAIN123 wrote:
    To be honest I think what it comes down to is that Smythe just doesn't like Craig in the lead role. No offence Major but I suspect if Dalts was the lead in the otherwise same films you would be much kinder.

    None taken, and you are right, I don't like Craig's Bond. The way Bond has been written (not only played), doesn't appeal to me at all. If Dalton were in them, I probably would be kinder to the last 3 films, but only as far as the lead performance was concerned. Replacing Craig with Dalton wouldn't necessarily change Poker for Baccarat in Casino Royale, fix the editing of Quantum Of Solace, or have Bond take back-up with him for the climax of Skyfall.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited April 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Good morning, all! (or afternoon/evening for you ...) B-)

    Just to say I'm happy with the way our thread is continuing. I'd like to carry on for maybe one or two more days discussing Craig and his films, including what we feel would be great for Bond 24.

    For me, I'm glad Craig had Skyfall as his third film because it tipped the balance away from instability/uncertainty, the mixed feelings I had with QOS. Now his era feels more solid and the next one is important for sure, as to how we will judge his entire era. If Skyfall had been bad, though, it would have really put a dent in Craig's era. Casino Royale was brilliant, but QOS was in my opinion a step down and hit-or-miss in quality. Now, though, it feels like Craig is again on solid ground again as Bond. I'm thrilled we get at least four from Dan, and it seems five is likely.
    One very strong reason why I wanted another film for Dalton was to round it out at least, give us a more balanced film next time out ... because looking at Timothy's two films are almost like day and night, so different from each other. Besides which, I wanted more of Dalton's Bond anyway.

    So with Craig heading with confidence into Bond 24 (how could he not, after Skyfall's success and the completed story arc of M) - here is a fun question I just asked myself this morning: What does Daniel Craig want in Bond 24? Hahahhaha. Like I have a clue. I don't really. :-? Just guessing of course. But I bravely will suggest some.

    A few points I think may be true about Daniel Craig:
    ~ I think he does not want to completely repeat himself.
    ~ I think he is aware of the danger of over the top humor, or ill placed humor - and humor is not his strong suit. Although he does fine with a dry delivery at times.
    ~ I think he is keenly aware that the next film has a tough act to follow, people's expectations and anticipation are high, and it is not likely that Bond 24 will be quite as successful, even if it is a good Bond film (I mean really, that is just being practical, looking at the numbers Skyfall raked in). Yet, I think he likes the challenge.
    ~ I think he likes working with Mendes and feels confident that they can come up with something fresh and worthwhile.
    ~ I think - especially after the making of QOS - he is very aware of the importance of a good script.

    So let's continue discussing Craig's Bond and his films, your thoughts about what should be part of Bond 24, etc. :)

    I am heading into a busy day with a lot of teaching (yes, even on Sunday), so I will check back much later. Enjoy your discussions, everyone.

    Cheers!
    :-bd





  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    After DAD I went through a difficult period when I questioned why I was a fan of James Bond. For a while I was incapable of watching Bond films and I only recovered from the shock slowly (I'm not joking). But if DAD served for something was for me to go back to the roots, following Cubby's advice I too went back to Fleming. When Daniel Craig was cast I wasn't even aware a decision had been made, I must confess I was apart from the fandom. Yes, I still remember the day. I was at the library studying or researching something and one of my best friends (my namesake in fact) and partner in crime when it came to the movies was searching for me to break the news: a new Bond had been cast and he was terrible. She wanted to find me before I found out, I really appreciated and went to find a computer I could use to search the guy. I remember I saw the uggliest photo of Craig in existence in some website, I found that photo many times in those days. It's just like the press had conspire to find the worst photo so that everyone would immediately hate him. I wasn't happy, the produces had completely messed up the last film and now they cast a guy to looked nothing like Bond. I thought to myself, at least if nothing else Brosnan looked the part. Next time I talked to my mother I shared my disgust and said I had no interest in watching the next Bond film and she couldn't believe what she was hearing. Ah, my good old mother! She told me right there how stupid I was (not that I gave her any credit at the time) and uttered the now immortal words in defense of Craig “Moore had blond hair and nobody seemed to mind. Besides, I like him”. Oh yes, if I wanted to stay home I could but she fullly intended to watch and enjoy this new Bond. As I said I was staying away from the production but one day I opened a Premiere magazine and who do I see? Daniel Craig in a set photo with Eva Greene and Caterina Murino. He was dressed for the Parkour scene, nothing Bondian, however there was something in the way he looked straight at the camera, there was such intensity in his eyes that something changed in me. Fleming's words came to my mind as they would some many times again during Craig's tenure, cold eyes and a cruel mouth indeed. Perhaps this hadn't been such a bad choice! Then I watched the wonderful Munich and I had to admit he was an amazing actor and he was coolness personified on screen. Still I was not convinced, he still had to win me, but I was willing to give him a try. I have no idea how I managed it but I didn't even watch trailers for CR (perhaps I was too busy at the time, can't honestly remember). I went with my parents to watch the film, my mother excited because of the initial reviews and I was at least giving it the benefit of the doubt. In a few minutes I was sold, I was a Craig believer! He had me at “ I know where you keep your gun” and sent me to the moon with “Yes, considerably”! I went on to watch CR twice at the theater, once with my parents and again with my mother and grandfather, the Bondian trio. I have said many times that CR is not one of my top Bond films, there are so many cringe worthy moments in it but still the impact it had in me was incredible, it reinstated by love of Bond. Don't get me wrong, I still thing it's a great Bond film (top 10 probably!) but it's my least favourite of the Craig ones. Craig himself, however, was great, simply amazing as always. The soundtrack is, in my opinion, one of the top entries of the series, great title song, great acting by everyone (amazing Gianini and Greene), great locations and by far the best PTS ever. QoS is a weird one, I left the theater room without knowing what to thing but I did like it. I enjoy it so much and I think it's really underrated. It's unique and precious because of that, we meet the darker side of Bond, so seldom seen, that fascinated me so much when I read the books. The film may be short, there may be things lacking, but depth is not one of those things. I first registered in the old forum around the time QoS came out specifically to defend the film. I have to confess I quickly grew tired of the discussion and didn't have much time for it anyway. I doubt anyone remembers me from back then (I believe my username was Ruby in case anyone is wondering). Fast forward to 2013 and we finally have another film. I followed the production of SF like I never did before for a Bond film, the rumours, the casting process, the filming, the spoilers ;) Like Piaf, je ne regrette rien. Everyone knows my love for this latest installment and it's a lot due to Craig. In three films he hasn't slipped one bit, he's always incredible and in SF he surpassed Connery as my favourite Bond. That's saying a lot because I thought that was simply impossible. I'll never forget something Albert Finney says about Craig in an interview, that he's a very precise actor. Indeed he is, there is a lot of work and a lot of thought put into every gesture, into the intonation of every word. Still, he makes it look easy, cool, natural. Long gone are the days when I doubted him, long live the Craig Bond!

    What do I want for Bond24? My needs are simple :-B

    - A great soundtrack and title song;

    - An amazing cast

    - A good script with an interesting back story.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited April 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Thanks, my sister in Bond, @Sandy! @};-
    Well said! Thanks for sharing your journey of discovering Craig as Bond (after your fall off a cliff so to speak from DAD - glad you survived!) and your impressions of his films.

    Basically, I completely agree with you about Craig's portrayal. Although I find several faults with QOS, his Bond was not one of them. I really like Finney's saying that Craig is a "very precise actor." Yes, considerably. It was his complete immersion into Bond, his confidence, so quietly solid, in the PTS of Casino Royale that sold me, too. And he has lived up to that moment so very well. I also love Skyfall, and I can watch it many times and still find it moving, with depth, and also some sparkle. I am hoping for a lighter feeling, and more enjoyment for Craig's Bond in life in Bond 24.

    Your simple needs would fit the bill, Sandy! We already have a decent director lined up. I am still thinking it may well be Adele for the next theme song, too. I am fine if she does it or does not do it (I think the producers and Craig do want her) - but a great theme song and wonderful soundtrack is important, for sure.

    P.S. You have a cool mom!

  • Posts: 2,341
    As far at the theme song goes, it is easy to use Adele following her success with the SF song, like it was so easy to stick with Shirley Bassey after they made such a splash with "Goldfinger".
    Bassey did record, "Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" for TB but they decided to use the version recorded by Dionne Warwick before settling on Tom Jones' "Thunderball". (Personally I liked Dionne Warwick's version it was far superior to Bassey's)

    That being said, they can do whatever they want with performer for Bond 24 but I think they should switch it up and use another performer besides Adele. Just my opinion.

    It would be nice to see Bond 24 end with a tender scene with Bond and the leading lady. Most of the films end like this but Craig's do not.

    I started a post a while back about how all the women who DC beds end up dying in the film. Perhaps it is time to end this staple of the Craig era.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes, I agree, @OHMSS69 that the trend of all or most of the women in Craig's films end up dying has got to be over. Perhaps it fit those particular stories (I am still irked by Fields' death, though), but enough is enough of that. I want the main Bond girl to live and end up with Bond. I'd like another minor Bond girl and 2 villains - the main strong villain and a good henchman or henchwoman.

    I also would be happier if a new artist got to do the theme song because it is nice to hear different singers, it just is; and it gives us something fresh. I like Adele, and I think they (the powers that be) do want her back. I would not be upset if she returned. No matter who does it, I hope it's a great song and is incorporated more than once, in variations, in the score during the film. Don't you think the songwriter, whoever it is, needs to know the song's title before composing? Or at least that must be a great help. The title or premise at the very least. When did Adele start writing Skyfall? Shouldn't that be happening pretty soon, whoever will be writing it? So maybe we should get news this summer about the song. What do you think? :-?

    Does anyone remember what kind of news breaks first? There is a strong rumor about the villain now. But I think some of you have the timeline of when we got news about past Bond films in mind; I don't remember. I hope we get some confirmed news this May, June at the latest. News other than so and so is not returning (Oh, Roger Deakins, I am still hurting ...). :(( That reminds me, I'd love to know the cinematographer next.

    I guess I am waking up full of more questions than answers. But I am getting really excited about Bond 24 because it is time for the real build up, with real news, and I do love it. Yes, considerably. B-)

    Starting off my Monday morning now. I hope everyone's Sunday evening (or whatever the time/day may be for you) is going as smoothly as a well made martini.

    Cheers!
    >:D<
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    Ordinarily I think it's the cast they present first, but I'm not sure. @Sandy, with a username like Ruby I have no doubt @St. George was one of the first to welcome you ;-)

    I bought SF before the weekend and I'm not sure, but somehow it just doesn't work for me like it did in the cinema. Still, I've got good hopes, because I am a fan of QoS and CR.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited April 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Thanks, @CommanderRoss. :) Personally, I still enjoy Skyfall the same as I did when I first saw it. I do need to buy it soon. And I'm going to check with Samuel001; I think he has an idea of the regular timing of news that we get before a new Bond film.

    For today, please do give us your comments on Daniel Craig's era, but we are now also moving on. It's time for our next topic! We are now wrapping up our Topic #2 (discussing each Bond actor's era). So let's take a look at the next topic to discuss on this thread.

    When I first suggested some topics, many of you suggested we just go through them in order. I'm fine with that. Therefore, here is the third one from that list:
    Discuss briefly what you were doing in your life during the time period of your favorite Bond film. Now I think I want to tweak that topic to say: Let's talk about any personal memory connected with James Bond, films or novels. Any anecdotes or moments in your life you'd like to share. Not just what was happening in your life during the time of your favorite Bond film; but you can talk about that, too, of course.

    I realize that many of you have already shared some of your personal experiences, such as what you thought when you heard Craig was going to be the next James Bond or your first experience seeing a Bond film in a theatre, etc. That's great to read; thanks! But I don't want to skip this topic just because it has been included a bit already. I think this is something all of us are interested in, even those who do not post here but do read our thread - and besides, it's fun. :D

    So let's spend just a couple of days looking back at personal memories that include in some way James Bond. I'll call this Topic #3) Personal Memories with Bond

    Let me start by sharing a 'novel' experience for me. ;)

    When I was just starting high school, age 14, I read Live and Let Die. I picked it up from the local library. I was finished with Nancy Drew and looking for more interesting and exciting, stories to read. I had heard of James Bond because it was definitely part of our culture (1970) but I had not yet seen a Bond film. Well, I took it home and felt completely immersed in this world with this very intriguing, strong, and compelling character called James Bond. And - like a strange twist of fate - parts of it featured my own hometown, St. Petersburg, Florida! I was stunned by that. Sleepy old city, known as a retirement haven for old folks. And there it was, on the page, discussed by Fleming ... including the shuffleboard games elderly people played in droves and our downtown pier. Rather felt like I was in a Twilight Zone episode reading that bit. Nobody, I mean nobody, felt that our city was worth a mention in a book. And here it was in this new cool and exciting story about a British spy! Fate, I tell you, that I picked that one up first.
    By the time I got to From Russia With Love, I was telling my friends about these great books. I also remember lending From Russia With Love to a good friend, a guy. And he read it and said to me something like, "Man! That was exciting and fun. And I gotta tell you Bond meeting Tania was a real turn-on!" I remember laughing at that. (I was turned on, too; but I was picturing myself as Tania, of course). So there I was, the shortest, blondest, quietest Tomboy in school, also crazy about reading, spreading the word about James Bond even before I had seen a film. The next film at the threatres was Diamonds are Forever, and that sent me into the Bond stratosphere permanently. 8->

    I have other memories, too, connected Bond films. But that's my contribution for today. Please feel free to share any personal anecdotes or memories or any kind that has a connection to James Bond. Anything goes; funny, sad, highs, lows, romantic, exciting, anything personal you'd care to share (memories connected to Bond films, Bond music, Bond novels...). Including visiting Bond locations! I know @Saunders has done that a bit. I'd love to read about your visiting Bond locations, too, those of you who have been able to do so.

    Looking forward to reading your posts, fellow agents! B-)

    Cheers!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited April 2014 Posts: 45,489
    That was very amusing, @4EverBonded. Looking forward to what the other "elders" have to say, and hey I read Nancy Drew as a kid, too. Here she is called Ms. Detective.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Thanks, @Thunderfinger. :)
    Ahem - *cough!* We are "seasoned agents" or "Originals" ... I am edging there, but prefer not to have the "e" word yet! ;)

    Ms. Detective? Did she at least have a name in the stories, like Nancy? But the series was called Ms. Detective? That's cute.

    And don't be shy, Thunderfinger. Give us a personal memory of you with Bond in some way, please.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    She had a name-Nancy Drew, but the covers and titles read "Ms Detective". I also read the Hardy Boys as a kid, sure you read those, too? And you know that I am not shy.

    Not really sure what my favourite Bond film is, but my first was FYEO, and still think it was the best Moore film at least. Have hardly ever been so nervous in the cinema as I was during that rock climbing scene. A schoolmate told me that Indiana Jones was way cooler than Bond, but I did not believe him after watching FYEO.

    My next two films are also still among my favorites, OHMSS and oh my devil, GF. Those were a revelation and taught me at the age of 14 that Moore was not the be all and end all of Bond.

    DN and FRWL I watched at the age of 20, and found them utterly boring, but as I have grown older and infinitely wiser, I found them to be among the very best, the esthetics and coolness of the early 60s was something else! Bravo, Terence Young!

    And my other favourites- CR and SF. For the first time Bond is the same age as me(my boss at the time of CR s release called me James Bond as he thought I looked like Craig, but cannot for the life of me see the resemblance myself) , and we are finally getting some true to Fleming films again.
    Hope Craig can manage two more as he is contracted to do, but age is a bitch. (Not referring to you originals. :D )
  • Posts: 11,189
    To be honest I've never found any of the films "boring". Some of the films I liked when I was younger but have liked less over time (AVTAK, DAD, TND, TWINE) others ive never really been fond of (DAF, LALD, TMWTGG).

    With the 60s films I've always liked them - but I've enjoyed them even more as I've got older.
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