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I wish we could post some positive news here again.
I'm okay with this as long as it means a new solo Superman film.
Superman and Batman both have (and really need to start using) never-before-seen villains in their movies. No more trodding out the Joker for the umpteenth time please. Give the Eggheads of the world their day.
It’s actually more infuriating with Superman because there’s a large rogues gallery that’s basically been untouched compared to Batman. We’ve had a cinematic Superman since 1978, and in all those 44 years since we’ve yet to get even a hint of Brainiac. HOW???
In the next Batman film I want to see him take on any of the following z-listers:
Clock King
The Spinner
The Getaway Genius
Atomic Man
Kite Man
Professor Milo
The Eraser
Killer Moth
Calendar Man
Maxie Zeus
Crazy Quilt
The Ten-Eyed Man
Zodiac Master
The Terrible Trio
Mr. Nice
Mirror-Man
Catman
Dr. No-Face
Dr. Double X
Professor Radium
Jojo the Flinker
So much for #RestoreTheSnyderVerse.
Aside from maybe WONDER WOMAN 3 and AQUAMAN 2, I imagine Discovery is looking at all of this and thinking “to hell with it, wipe the slate clean”.
I would like to see Bat's go up against Bookworm, though I doubt anyone could better Roddy McDowall.
interestingly enough Calander Man became a much different character thanks to the Long Halloween and Arkham City
definitly a much more creepy character.. could he warrant his own film no but could he be a secondary villain yes
Catman also isnt outside the realm of possibility he is essentially Kraven the hunter
Maxie Zeus is a riot and could easily be used as well.
I was hoping for Ventriliquist and Man-Bat to be honest
Yes, and I hear Polka-Dot Man, another classic Z-Lister, has been used and revamped in the second Suicide Squad film, which I haven't yet seen.
Those would be very good choices for the next Bat-film but I didn't include them since they're A or B rather than Z-List. I think there's something great in turning an embarrassingly corny old villain into a great character, just as Batman: The Animated Series turned Mr. Freeze from a minor gimmick villain to a tragic antihero.
Some villains would work best as a side villain(s). ManBat and the Ventriloquist arguably would fit this, from a cinematic point of view, I feel. Toyman would be the same for Superman, cinematically.
https://comicbookmovie.com/marvel_studios/marvel-studios-president-kevin-feige-seriously-considered-jumping-ship-to-dc-during-mcus-phase-2-a194135
https://comicbookmovie.com/batman/joker/joker-director-todd-phillips-is-said-to-be-getting-pretty-close-on-planned-sequel-a194129
https://comicbookmovie.com/marvel_studios/marvel-studios-president-kevin-feige-seriously-considered-jumping-ship-to-dc-during-mcus-phase-2-a194135
https://comicbookmovie.com/superman/superman-dc-insider-says-key-to-warner-bros-success-is-focusing-on-henry-cavills-man-of-steel-a194137
https://comicbookmovie.com/batman/joker/warner-bros-makes-major-changes-to-dc-films-division-joker-director-asked-to-oversee-dceu-moving-forward-a194101
Make of this what you will.
"Appointing someone with limited comic book knowledge to potentially oversee future movies just because they delivered a box office hit sounds like a very Warner Bros.-type thing to do..."
That was my immediate thought upon reading the headline. Joker was not remotely a typical DC film. It's also not the kind of film that builds you a Marvel-style comic book movie universe, even one with a darker or more realistic approach. In many respects Joker was an anti-comic book movie.
Talk about an alternate timeline!
DC has two delayed movies for Aquaman and Flash right now, one featuring Amber Heard and the other starring Ezra Miller. They just had a big success with Batman, but that was unfortunately a film outside their DCEU. Dwayne Johnson's Black Adam could still be a big success for their film universe this fall though.
Other than that, they have Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman and Henry Cavill's Superman, both of whom have been well received. For some reason there's been no movement on either a Wonder Woman 3 or Man of Steel 2. This is very good news if a new Cavill Superman is coming, but DC really needs to get it together.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
This is the exact mentality they had in 2008 when TDK became a hit: "That was so successful, you know what that means? The Superman reboot must be dark and gritty with Nolan as the producer!"
I always forget that Nolan was a producer on Man of Steel, and I don't think I even realized until now that he continued to be a producer on Batman vs. Superman and Justice League. You have a point that Superman traditionally has not been a "dark and gritty" character like Batman and therefore Nolan might not have been the best fit on paper. However, the difference is that Nolan's Dark Knight films were still very much traditional comic book movies (just ones that were very well done and unusually realistic), and I personally think Man of Steel was a successful Nolanizing of Superman.
In fact, looking back, DC had a rather strong start going: Man of Steel, Batman vs. Superman [extended edition], Wonder Woman, Justice League (had Snyder been able to complete his original vision initially), Aquaman...
They really only went off the rails with Suicide Squad (thanks to studio interference and butchering in the editing room), Justice League (on account of tragic unforeseeable circumstances and the misguided hiring of Joss Whedon), and Birds of Prey and Wonder Woman 1984 (both apparently doomed from script stage). The lack of a Ben Affleck solo Batman film further derailed things for them.
I actually like that the DCEU was differentiated from the MCU by its visually and tonally darker and grittier approach. They just need to figure out a way to move forward with some of the road bumps they're experiencing (currently troubled leads, losing Batfleck, declining quality in scripts) so they can get their groove back. It sounds like Michael Keaton might be their answer to losing Affleck, and I'd say it's a great answer too.
I also agree with that one article that Cavill's Superman is the real key to how they can successfully move forward and would add Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman there too. Hopefully Black Adam is also a rousing success and a bit of back-on-track for them.
It really is an improvement in my opinion because some things are better explained, and, indeed, there's more gore as you put it. I dig that stuff. I recall from two theatrical viewings that it felt like scenes were missing. Then I saw the extended cut and I noticed more "connective tissue", more plot logic as it were. I recognise that the film is long; I also appreciate the length of the film. I can fill an entire night with this movie--and yes, to me, that's a good thing since I enjoy the visual style. The two negatives: the Martha thing (though it's not that big a deal in the end) and weird Luthor (though I overall like Eisenberg's take on the character.)
As he is in BVS, he reminds me more of Toyman.
I’m really surprised that they haven’t used Toyman as a villain, particularly during the CR films. I was also thinking Jim Carrey’s Riddler for the first time I saw it.
You mean Batman giving criminals veritable death sentences? Not my favorite part of the film, but I think that was done to show Batman taking his vigilantism to an extreme and having his own moral ambiguity in contrast to the fallout from Superman's actions. He's also shown resorting to guns against parademons in a future/alternate reality/dream scenario, and that's arguably still not even as extreme as Batman straight up killing criminals in Burton's films. It's just taking the concept of instilling fear a step further and showing how fine a line Batman sometimes walks.
Anyways, I don't see Batman vs. Superman as necessarily the perfect film. I neither loved it nor despised it upon release. But the extended version did clear up some things that were confusing and made it a stronger, more coherent film as a whole. As @DarthDimi said, it added back in the connective tissue it needed. There were some things in BvS that didn't work and some things that really did work. I found the "Martha" scene unintentionally hysterical upon first watch, and it's still silly but I can roll with it for the sake of the good stuff. Ben Affleck as Bruce and Jeremy Irons as Alfred are great in this. It's a visually great looking film too as @DarthDimi says, and the ending is just a fantastic cliffhanger in my opinion. A definite case of the good outweighing the bad.
Ultimately, it was a strong enough middle film in the Snyder trilogy, which really was a Superman trilogy.
“BRUCE, I NEED TO TALK TO YOU!” *push*
It’s almost as funny as Matt Murdock pleading Frank Castle not to take lives when he’s basically destroying quality of life.
“FRANK DON’T DO IT!!!!”
I thought that Civil War did a great job with the characters actually disagreeing in a way which felt believable, but the audience have to be entertained so that meant that they had to come to blows, which made them all seem a bit stupid really.
BVS trying to juggle elements of TDKR and the Death of Superman just feels waaayyy too soon.
Rhetorical of course. I’m still astounded that pretentious film made over a billion dollars.
I'm astounded too. But not because it’s a pretentious film because I don't think it is. I really love Joker. I just never would have expected that little arthouse movie to haul in so much money.