Indiana Jones

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Comments

  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,619
    Matt007 wrote: »


    Just rewatched this. It’s a masterclass. We have the Macguffin, the plot, the history, the context, the consequence, foreshadowing, the scepticism of the audience through the two agents which changes to fear and belief etc etc in one perfectly written acted and filmed scene.

    Filmmaking of this quality is rare. Very rare. It’s one of the reasons I like the severine scene in skyfall is so powerful. It naturally and authentically sets up the remainder of the movie so that when we meet Silva, we actually feel a threat.

    It’s proof that just talking scenes can be better than a action scene at times.
  • Posts: 669
    It's true that the scene with the two government agents at the beginning of Raiders is absolutely brilliant. It might be the best pure "exposition" scene ever filmed.

    I'm not sure I can quite agree with the comments that the film itself is completely perfect, however. I've always felt that, as much as I love the epic ending with the ark being opened, it's a little weird that the hero closes his eyes and does absolutely nothing during the climax. From a thematic point of view, it's perfect, since the movie is, at its heart, about an atheist who gains faith. But from a cinematic point of view, I don't know if it quite works.

    I also think that the middle sags just a bit. The scenes with Marion and Belloq are fun but they don't do anything to advance the story. We spend a good ten minutes with Marion trying to outsmart him and escape but she never does. So why couldn't we just take those ten minutes out?

    Sorry, guys. I'm just nitpicking. It's a brilliant film, one of my favorites of all time. I've seen it a hundred times and will watch it a hundred more. I just don't think it's as perfect as some people think.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I've always loved John Williams' Ark Theme in this scene. So ominous in a beautiful way.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 2022 Posts: 16,369
    I love Last Crusade and I also don’t hate Crystal Skull, but I do wish they hadn’t felt the need to try and “recapture” Raiders quite so much. Skull in particular would have been much stronger imo if it stayed in the United States and played out like an Invasion of the Bodysnatchers esque plot with G-Men and stuff. The atomic stuff and fake suburbia were legitimately great ideas to place Indy in, but the film starts to go sour when we go to the jungle and we get dopey versions of Raiders greatest hits instead of keeping with the thematic track of Indy being out of place and time in his own native soil.

    Yeah I always think it's a shame that they have the plot of Indy being a suspected Commie spy, but then just drop it. That part of the film has a bit of a feeling of the danger and drama of the first three which then just dissipates into nothing.
    Having Indy in the middle of two factions, the Russian and a group of FBI men or something, could have added a nice dynamic.

    I also think there's a chance for a father/son moral rather lost at the end- there could have been a parallel with the aliens having nurtured the human race but not trusting them to look after themselves or something like that which Indy could have learned from and given him a connection moment with Mutt, but really the ending doesn't mean very much.
    I'm not sure I can quite agree with the comments that the film itself is completely perfect, however. I've always felt that, as much as I love the epic ending with the ark being opened, it's a little weird that the hero closes his eyes and does absolutely nothing during the climax. From a thematic point of view, it's perfect, since the movie is, at its heart, about an atheist who gains faith. But from a cinematic point of view, I don't know if it quite works.

    I don't mind that at all, but I do think the one single flaw with the construction of the film is that Indy's knowledge about closing their eyes isn't seeded anywhere. It needed a scene where he read that or was told it, and maybe even scoffed at it - but by the ending he has realised the Ark's power and heeds it.
    I also think that the middle sags just a bit. The scenes with Marion and Belloq are fun but they don't do anything to advance the story. We spend a good ten minutes with Marion trying to outsmart him and escape but she never does. So why couldn't we just take those ten minutes out?

    Oh no, I wouldn't lose that at all; it's all perfect character stuff. I would say Raiders never sags at all.
  • Posts: 669
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I've always loved John Williams' Ark Theme in this scene. So ominous in a beautiful way.

    Agreed! I also love how it's used very similarly at the end when the ark is opened - it starts out beautiful and then morphs into something terrifying. It's just a wonderful example of how music can be used to play on the audience's emotions.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,369
    I don't know if I'd say it starts out beautiful: the whole tune is evoking awe in a slightly scary, powerful, mysterious way. We're supposed to be unsure of it.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I've always loved John Williams' Ark Theme in this scene. So ominous in a beautiful way.

    Agreed! I also love how it's used very similarly at the end when the ark is opened - it starts out beautiful and then morphs into something terrifying. It's just a wonderful example of how music can be used to play on the audience's emotions.

    Yeah, very true. I love its use in the end as well and when Jones is in archeologist mode in the Arab clothing, closing in on the Ark's location.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't know if I'd say it starts out beautiful: the whole tune is evoking awe in a slightly scary, powerful, mysterious way. We're supposed to be unsure of it.

    Yeah, I know what you mean. That's true. But I just feel it's also a tune that's very cool to listen to, even if it has a celestial feel to it.
  • Posts: 669
    mtm wrote: »
    I love Last Crusade and I also don’t hate Crystal Skull, but I do wish they hadn’t felt the need to try and “recapture” Raiders quite so much. Skull in particular would have been much stronger imo if it stayed in the United States and played out like an Invasion of the Bodysnatchers esque plot with G-Men and stuff. The atomic stuff and fake suburbia were legitimately great ideas to place Indy in, but the film starts to go sour when we go to the jungle and we get dopey versions of Raiders greatest hits instead of keeping with the thematic track of Indy being out of place and time in his own native soil.

    Yeah I always think it's a shame that they have the plot of Indy being a suspected Commie spy, but then just drop it. That part of the film has a bit of a feeling of the danger and drama of the first three which then just dissipates into nothing.
    Having Indy in the middle of two factions, the Russian and a group of FBI men or something, could have added a nice dynamic.

    I also think there's a chance for a father/son moral rather lost at the end- there could have been a parallel with the aliens having nurtured the human race but not trusting them to look after themselves or something like that which Indy could have learned from and given him a connection moment with Mutt, but really the ending doesn't mean very much.
    I'm not sure I can quite agree with the comments that the film itself is completely perfect, however. I've always felt that, as much as I love the epic ending with the ark being opened, it's a little weird that the hero closes his eyes and does absolutely nothing during the climax. From a thematic point of view, it's perfect, since the movie is, at its heart, about an atheist who gains faith. But from a cinematic point of view, I don't know if it quite works.

    I don't mind that at all, but I do think the one single flaw with the construction of the film is that Indy's knowledge about closing their eyes isn't seeded anywhere. It needed a scene where he read that or was told it, and maybe even scoffed at it - but by the ending he has realised the Ark's power and heeds it.
    I also think that the middle sags just a bit. The scenes with Marion and Belloq are fun but they don't do anything to advance the story. We spend a good ten minutes with Marion trying to outsmart him and escape but she never does. So why couldn't we just take those ten minutes out?

    Oh no, I wouldn't lose that at all; it's all perfect character stuff. I would say Raiders never sags at all.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, although I imagine the vast majority of people would agree with you more than me. It IS lovely character stuff, but it's at a point in the movie where I'm always just wanting Spielberg and co. to get on with it. The good guys are literally raiding the ark and we're cutting back and forth to the tent shenanigans, and while it's all great, it just feels like it's holding back the momentum. But again, that's just me. I'll shut up now :)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,369
    No worries, it's cool to see things differently :)

    Apparently there's a chance we might hear some IJ5 news in a little while as there's a Disney presentation going on at CinemaCon at the moment, and they were playing the Raiders March as people were sitting down. Fingers crossed for some news.
  • Posts: 1,394
    It's true that the scene with the two government agents at the beginning of Raiders is absolutely brilliant. It might be the best pure "exposition" scene ever filmed.

    I'm not sure I can quite agree with the comments that the film itself is completely perfect, however. I've always felt that, as much as I love the epic ending with the ark being opened, it's a little weird that the hero closes his eyes and does absolutely nothing during the climax. From a thematic point of view, it's perfect, since the movie is, at its heart, about an atheist who gains faith. But from a cinematic point of view, I don't know if it quite works.

    I also think that the middle sags just a bit. The scenes with Marion and Belloq are fun but they don't do anything to advance the story. We spend a good ten minutes with Marion trying to outsmart him and escape but she never does. So why couldn't we just take those ten minutes out?

    Sorry, guys. I'm just nitpicking. It's a brilliant film, one of my favorites of all time. I've seen it a hundred times and will watch it a hundred more. I just don't think it's as perfect as some people think.

    You are not alone in thinking Raiders is less than perfect...

  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited April 2022 Posts: 4,619
    mtm wrote: »
    No worries, it's cool to see things differently :)

    Apparently there's a chance we might hear some IJ5 news in a little while as there's a Disney presentation going on at CinemaCon at the moment, and they were playing the Raiders March as people were sitting down. Fingers crossed for some news.

    Sadly, we got nothing from CinemaCon. Maybe for the Star Wars celebration in May…
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,369
    Yeah, I think it’s too far off to be honest, they didn’t talk about any films beyond Avatar and they have quite a few slated between that and Indy. I don’t think we’ll hear anything about it for quite a while yet.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah, I think it’s too far off to be honest, they didn’t talk about any films beyond Avatar and they have quite a few slated between that and Indy. I don’t think we’ll hear anything about it for quite a while yet.

    They did show that first image from Barbie, which comes out a month after this one does. It could simply be a Disney thing, though. I know John Wick 4 is about as far out as those two but I'm banking on Lionsgate showing a trailer or some footage for it at their presentation tomorrow.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,369
    Good point.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    I'm sure the film is probably FX-heavy which requires extensive post-work but I'd love if they gave us something similar to the teaser for Crystal Skull even to whet appetites.

    It's Indy so it's pretty much guaranteed to do well, so maybe they're happy to hold off as long as they can before starting any campaigns.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I almost can't believe we're getting another Indy installment after all this time and I really hope it delivers. Mangold + the cast really inspires confidence, and in a worst case scenario, there's no way it can be worse than KOTCS surely.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    And a video game! Fun times.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    mattjoes wrote: »
    And a video game! Fun times.

    I keep forgetting about that! I hope it delivers. Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb was perfection at the time and had one of the scariest levels for me when I was younger.
  • edited April 2022 Posts: 1,394
    I'm sure the film is probably FX-heavy which requires extensive post-work but I'd love if they gave us something similar to the teaser for Crystal Skull even to whet appetites.

    It's Indy so it's pretty much guaranteed to do well, so maybe they're happy to hold off as long as they can before starting any campaigns.

    I could see it flopping or at least “ underperforming “ to be honest.Young people today won’t have much affection for the character especially after the last instalment which is almost universally seen as the worst of the series.Also,Harrison Ford is nearly 80 and not the box office draw he used to be.

    People flocked to KOTCS when it came out because the classic trilogy was so popular but the stink of that film means there won’t be as much desire for a new one.Indeed ,a lot of people find the idea of a new Indy film at Fords age ridiculous.Also add in the bad rep Kathleen Kennedy and Disney have in the public right now and ( especially if it turns out the film is yet another bait and switch ) it could easily be a disaster.

  • Posts: 16,154
    Are we ever going to get a title for this film?
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Film's called Indiana Jones and the African Queen.
  • Posts: 16,154
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Film's called Indiana Jones and the African Queen.

    Haha! Indiana Jones and the Two Mrs. Carrolls.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,369
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Are we ever going to get a title for this film?

    Yes :)
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited April 2022 Posts: 8,216
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    I'm sure the film is probably FX-heavy which requires extensive post-work but I'd love if they gave us something similar to the teaser for Crystal Skull even to whet appetites.

    It's Indy so it's pretty much guaranteed to do well, so maybe they're happy to hold off as long as they can before starting any campaigns.

    I could see it flopping or at least “ underperforming “ to be honest.Young people today won’t have much affection for the character especially after the last instalment which is almost universally seen as the worst of the series.Also,Harrison Ford is nearly 80 and not the box office draw he used to be.

    People flocked to KOTCS when it came out because the classic trilogy was so popular but the stink of that film means there won’t be as much desire for a new one.Indeed ,a lot of people find the idea of a new Indy film at Fords age ridiculous.Also add in the bad rep Kathleen Kennedy and Disney have in the public right now and ( especially if it turns out the film is yet another bait and switch ) it could easily be a disaster.

    I don't think Kathleen Kennedy nor Disney have the bad rep amongst the public that your Youtube channels would have you believe. Most people don't care. They just see Indy.
  • Posts: 631
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    there's no way it can be worse than KOTCS surely.

    Multiple ways, sadly. Do not underestimate the power of modern Hollywood to destroy a legacy

  • Posts: 1,394
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    I'm sure the film is probably FX-heavy which requires extensive post-work but I'd love if they gave us something similar to the teaser for Crystal Skull even to whet appetites.

    It's Indy so it's pretty much guaranteed to do well, so maybe they're happy to hold off as long as they can before starting any campaigns.

    I could see it flopping or at least “ underperforming “ to be honest.Young people today won’t have much affection for the character especially after the last instalment which is almost universally seen as the worst of the series.Also,Harrison Ford is nearly 80 and not the box office draw he used to be.

    People flocked to KOTCS when it came out because the classic trilogy was so popular but the stink of that film means there won’t be as much desire for a new one.Indeed ,a lot of people find the idea of a new Indy film at Fords age ridiculous.Also add in the bad rep Kathleen Kennedy and Disney have in the public right now and ( especially if it turns out the film is yet another bait and switch ) it could easily be a disaster.

    I don't think Kathleen Kennedy nor Disney have the bad rep amongst the public that your Youtube channels would have you believe. Most people don't care. They just see Indy.



  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited April 2022 Posts: 8,216
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    I'm sure the film is probably FX-heavy which requires extensive post-work but I'd love if they gave us something similar to the teaser for Crystal Skull even to whet appetites.

    It's Indy so it's pretty much guaranteed to do well, so maybe they're happy to hold off as long as they can before starting any campaigns.

    I could see it flopping or at least “ underperforming “ to be honest.Young people today won’t have much affection for the character especially after the last instalment which is almost universally seen as the worst of the series.Also,Harrison Ford is nearly 80 and not the box office draw he used to be.

    People flocked to KOTCS when it came out because the classic trilogy was so popular but the stink of that film means there won’t be as much desire for a new one.Indeed ,a lot of people find the idea of a new Indy film at Fords age ridiculous.Also add in the bad rep Kathleen Kennedy and Disney have in the public right now and ( especially if it turns out the film is yet another bait and switch ) it could easily be a disaster.

    I don't think Kathleen Kennedy nor Disney have the bad rep amongst the public that your Youtube channels would have you believe. Most people don't care. They just see Indy.



    I highly doubt that any boycott is even of a slight concern to Disney; especially one being called for by a vocal minority over an opinion on a bill that I hadn't even heard of til now.

    Again, I don't think the consensus among the public aligns with what your favourite Youtube channels say. 200 million subscribers to their streaming service and an increase in profits in the last quarter says more than enough.

    Do you think they're going to make Indiana Jones gay all of a sudden?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    There are a lot of problems with Disney, and yet this is what people choose to be upset about. Ridiculous.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Could be worse, it could be Amazon...
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