Indiana Jones

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  • Posts: 3,327
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Just seen Oppenheimer.
    Saw it today also...well, the most of it. I heard it was a good movie afterwards :-)
    0R1hDR9.jpg


    You missed the best film of the year so far.

    No way. Indy and MI were both far more enjoyable to watch.
  • Posts: 1,493
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Just seen Oppenheimer.
    Saw it today also...well, the most of it. I heard it was a good movie afterwards :-)
    0R1hDR9.jpg


    You missed the best film of the year so far.

    No way. Indy and MI were both far more enjoyable to watch.

    They were both very enjoyable. But Oppenheimer is filmmaking at its very best. It's an extraordinary accomplishment.
  • edited July 2023 Posts: 3,327
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Just seen Oppenheimer.
    Saw it today also...well, the most of it. I heard it was a good movie afterwards :-)
    0R1hDR9.jpg


    You missed the best film of the year so far.

    No way. Indy and MI were both far more enjoyable to watch.

    They were both very enjoyable. But Oppenheimer is filmmaking at its very best. It's an extraordinary accomplishment.

    I'm a big fan of Nolan, but I don't think this film is. There are 2 decent scenes in the entire 3 hours. The first is the Trinity test, and the second is when Murphy delivers his speech and starts to imagine the blast.

    Nolan copped out on the most important message of the film (the devastation and aftermath of the blast), and instead chose to focus on some pointless BS for the last 45 minutes which felt absolutely meaningless in comparison, between Murphy and Downey. Totally irresponsible as a filmmaker.

    I actually think this is one of his worst movies, along with Tenet. By his track record recently, he is slowly going downhill.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Why are we comparing an adult drama with popcorn films?

    Might as well debate over whether THE GODFATHER PART II or THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN was the better film of 1974.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN.

    Whoops, sorry, I got your point @MakeshiftPython.
  • Posts: 1,493
    Barbie has crossed $200 million dollars in the US in 5 days.

    Oppenheimer, a 3 hour, very dense and deeply intelligent drama (with an amazing script, stunning filmmaking on all levels, and an "A" list cast, all working at the top of their games,) has drawn huge audiences (far above the estimates) and also a very high Rotten Tomatoes score, while making over $100 million in the US alone in 5 days. This is a good day for original and intelligent filmmaking.

    You may or may not get Oppenheimer or appreciate the filmmaking craft or the brilliant acting, or even understand Nolan's film and its themes, but audiences worldwide (possibly bored by the endless superficial stories we are being fed, while our world is in serious crisis) are showing up for the film, a film which is not an established franchise and bravely deals with very serious issues. Sorry if it's not "enjoyable " enough for some of you, but, guess what, courageous filmmaking pushes the envelope and makes us think, even if we don't want to think.

    Perhaps Oppenheimer requires a bit of hard work and some focus. Every film or story is not just about "fun" entertainment.

    Indy 5 and MI7 are, IMO, great entertainment. Oppenheimer is something else entirely.

    Nolan is a working at a very high level and he's in another league to most filmmakers.
  • Posts: 3,327
    Why are we comparing an adult drama with popcorn films?

    Might as well debate over whether THE GODFATHER PART II or THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN was the better film of 1974.

    Both are equally great films, in their own right.

    Unfortunately Oppenheimer isn't a great film as an adult drama.
  • Posts: 1,493
    Why are we comparing an adult drama with popcorn films?

    Might as well debate over whether THE GODFATHER PART II or THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN was the better film of 1974.

    Both are equally great films, in their own right.

    Unfortunately Oppenheimer isn't a great film as an adult drama.

    Well, Oppenheimer's brilliant box office (way above the estimates) and the audience and critic reactions do suggest you are on the outside. Hey, you simply just get it. That's okay.
  • Posts: 1,493
    Sorry, "don't " get it.
  • edited July 2023 Posts: 3,327
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Barbie has crossed $200 million dollars in the US in 5 days.

    Oppenheimer, a 3 hour, very dense and deeply intelligent drama (with an amazing script, stunning filmmaking on all levels, and an "A" list cast, all working at the top of their games,) has drawn huge audiences (far above the estimates) and also a very high Rotten Tomatoes score, while making over $100 million in the US alone in 5 days. This is a good day for original and intelligent filmmaking.

    You may or may not get Oppenheimer or appreciate the filmmaking craft or the brilliant acting, or even understand Nolan's film and its themes, but audiences worldwide (possibly bored by the endless superficial stories we are being fed, while our world is in serious crisis) are showing up for the film, a film which is not an established franchise and bravely deals with very serious issues. Sorry if it's not "enjoyable " enough for some of you, but, guess what, courageous filmmaking pushes the envelope and makes us think, even if we don't want to think.
    And this is where he failed. I wasn't expecting to `enjoy' Opp, but I was expecting it to inform, educate, push the envelope, shock me, disturb me, and make me think afterwards, in a similar experience to watching Schindler's List.

    Unfortunately this film delivered on none of this. Nolan ducked out of `pushing the envelope' and focused on a stupid meaningless aftermath story about whether Opp was a commie or not, instead of the horrific one which is Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In the last 45 minutes of the film, Nolan spectacularly loses his audience.

    To me, he failed as a responsible filmmaker (and when I say filmmaker, I am putting him in the same bracket as someone like Stanley Kubrick or Alan Parker, and not some popcorn director like John Woo).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Barbie has crossed $200 million dollars in the US in 5 days.

    Oppenheimer, a 3 hour, very dense and deeply intelligent drama (with an amazing script, stunning filmmaking on all levels, and an "A" list cast, all working at the top of their games,) has drawn huge audiences (far above the estimates) and also a very high Rotten Tomatoes score, while making over $100 million in the US alone in 5 days. This is a good day for original and intelligent filmmaking.

    You may or may not get Oppenheimer or appreciate the filmmaking craft or the brilliant acting, or even understand Nolan's film and its themes, but audiences worldwide (possibly bored by the endless superficial stories we are being fed, while our world is in serious crisis) are showing up for the film, a film which is not an established franchise and bravely deals with very serious issues. Sorry if it's not "enjoyable " enough for some of you, but, guess what, courageous filmmaking pushes the envelope and makes us think, even if we don't want to think.
    Nolan spectacularly loses his audience.

    Did he?
  • Posts: 1,493
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Barbie has crossed $200 million dollars in the US in 5 days.

    Oppenheimer, a 3 hour, very dense and deeply intelligent drama (with an amazing script, stunning filmmaking on all levels, and an "A" list cast, all working at the top of their games,) has drawn huge audiences (far above the estimates) and also a very high Rotten Tomatoes score, while making over $100 million in the US alone in 5 days. This is a good day for original and intelligent filmmaking.

    You may or may not get Oppenheimer or appreciate the filmmaking craft or the brilliant acting, or even understand Nolan's film and its themes, but audiences worldwide (possibly bored by the endless superficial stories we are being fed, while our world is in serious crisis) are showing up for the film, a film which is not an established franchise and bravely deals with very serious issues. Sorry if it's not "enjoyable " enough for some of you, but, guess what, courageous filmmaking pushes the envelope and makes us think, even if we don't want to think.
    And this is where he failed. I wasn't expecting to `enjoy' Opp, but I was expecting it to inform, educate, push the envelope, shock me, disturb me, and make me think afterwards, in a similar experience to watching Schindler's List.

    Unfortunately this film delivered on none of this. Nolan ducked out of `pushing the envelope' and focused on a stupid meaningless aftermath story about whether Opp was a commie or not, instead of the horrific one which is Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In the last 45 minutes of the film, Nolan spectacularly loses his audience.

    To me, he failed as a responsible filmmaker (and when I say filmmaker, I am putting him in the same bracket as someone like Stanley Kubrick or Alan Parker, and not some popcorn director like John Woo).

    You are missing the point. It's all about the aftermath. And where we are now.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,649
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Barbie has crossed $200 million dollars in the US in 5 days.

    Oppenheimer, a 3 hour, very dense and deeply intelligent drama (with an amazing script, stunning filmmaking on all levels, and an "A" list cast, all working at the top of their games,) has drawn huge audiences (far above the estimates) and also a very high Rotten Tomatoes score, while making over $100 million in the US alone in 5 days. This is a good day for original and intelligent filmmaking.

    You may or may not get Oppenheimer or appreciate the filmmaking craft or the brilliant acting, or even understand Nolan's film and its themes, but audiences worldwide (possibly bored by the endless superficial stories we are being fed, while our world is in serious crisis) are showing up for the film, a film which is not an established franchise and bravely deals with very serious issues. Sorry if it's not "enjoyable " enough for some of you, but, guess what, courageous filmmaking pushes the envelope and makes us think, even if we don't want to think.
    Nolan spectacularly loses his audience.

    Did he?

    A 9.0 metacritic user score suggests he, in fact did not. User scores typically drop with weak third act movies, as your most recent memory of the movie is a bad one if the third act is bad. So Oppenheimer must be a satisfying conclusion (I haven't seen it) or at least hold the line with the rest of the film.
  • Posts: 3,327
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Barbie has crossed $200 million dollars in the US in 5 days.

    Oppenheimer, a 3 hour, very dense and deeply intelligent drama (with an amazing script, stunning filmmaking on all levels, and an "A" list cast, all working at the top of their games,) has drawn huge audiences (far above the estimates) and also a very high Rotten Tomatoes score, while making over $100 million in the US alone in 5 days. This is a good day for original and intelligent filmmaking.

    You may or may not get Oppenheimer or appreciate the filmmaking craft or the brilliant acting, or even understand Nolan's film and its themes, but audiences worldwide (possibly bored by the endless superficial stories we are being fed, while our world is in serious crisis) are showing up for the film, a film which is not an established franchise and bravely deals with very serious issues. Sorry if it's not "enjoyable " enough for some of you, but, guess what, courageous filmmaking pushes the envelope and makes us think, even if we don't want to think.
    And this is where he failed. I wasn't expecting to `enjoy' Opp, but I was expecting it to inform, educate, push the envelope, shock me, disturb me, and make me think afterwards, in a similar experience to watching Schindler's List.

    Unfortunately this film delivered on none of this. Nolan ducked out of `pushing the envelope' and focused on a stupid meaningless aftermath story about whether Opp was a commie or not, instead of the horrific one which is Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In the last 45 minutes of the film, Nolan spectacularly loses his audience.

    To me, he failed as a responsible filmmaker (and when I say filmmaker, I am putting him in the same bracket as someone like Stanley Kubrick or Alan Parker, and not some popcorn director like John Woo).

    You are missing the point. It's all about the aftermath. And where we are now.

    I got his point. I just don't think it was a strong enough one.

    It wasn't an effective aftermath to terrify the audience, and it didn't deliver any message about where we are now either.

    This film should have had the effect of scaring the hell out of every living person who sees it (including politicians) to ensure we never hit nuclear warfare. It needed a few shocking, sickening images to strike the message home, and a few captions at the end too before the closing credits.

    Nolan has captured a global audience, and so he should have used it effectively and responsibly, instead of sending the audience to sleep for the last act of the movie, by indulging in something that only he was interested in seeing.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 16,420
    I haven't seen it, but I think it's fine to have differing opinions on films, and just because more people agree with the opinion one person may happen to hold, it doesn't make it the correct one.
  • Posts: 1,493
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Barbie has crossed $200 million dollars in the US in 5 days.

    Oppenheimer, a 3 hour, very dense and deeply intelligent drama (with an amazing script, stunning filmmaking on all levels, and an "A" list cast, all working at the top of their games,) has drawn huge audiences (far above the estimates) and also a very high Rotten Tomatoes score, while making over $100 million in the US alone in 5 days. This is a good day for original and intelligent filmmaking.

    You may or may not get Oppenheimer or appreciate the filmmaking craft or the brilliant acting, or even understand Nolan's film and its themes, but audiences worldwide (possibly bored by the endless superficial stories we are being fed, while our world is in serious crisis) are showing up for the film, a film which is not an established franchise and bravely deals with very serious issues. Sorry if it's not "enjoyable " enough for some of you, but, guess what, courageous filmmaking pushes the envelope and makes us think, even if we don't want to think.
    And this is where he failed. I wasn't expecting to `enjoy' Opp, but I was expecting it to inform, educate, push the envelope, shock me, disturb me, and make me think afterwards, in a similar experience to watching Schindler's List.

    Unfortunately this film delivered on none of this. Nolan ducked out of `pushing the envelope' and focused on a stupid meaningless aftermath story about whether Opp was a commie or not, instead of the horrific one which is Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In the last 45 minutes of the film, Nolan spectacularly loses his audience.

    To me, he failed as a responsible filmmaker (and when I say filmmaker, I am putting him in the same bracket as someone like Stanley Kubrick or Alan Parker, and not some popcorn director like John Woo).

    You are missing the point. It's all about the aftermath. And where we are now.

    I got his point. I just don't think it was a strong enough one.

    It wasn't an effective aftermath to terrify the audience, and it didn't deliver any message about where we are now either.

    This film should have had the effect of scaring the hell out of every living person who sees it (including politicians) to ensure we never hit nuclear warfare. It needed a few shocking, sickening images to strike the message home, and a few captions at the end too before the closing credits.

    Nolan has captured a global audience, and so he should have used it effectively and responsibly, instead of sending the audience to sleep for the last act of the movie, by indulging in something that only he was interested in seeing.

    Chill out. You didn't understand the film. That's not a problem. Most audiences are engaged with this story. You are not. Big deal. Live with it. And chill out.

  • Posts: 3,327
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Barbie has crossed $200 million dollars in the US in 5 days.

    Oppenheimer, a 3 hour, very dense and deeply intelligent drama (with an amazing script, stunning filmmaking on all levels, and an "A" list cast, all working at the top of their games,) has drawn huge audiences (far above the estimates) and also a very high Rotten Tomatoes score, while making over $100 million in the US alone in 5 days. This is a good day for original and intelligent filmmaking.

    You may or may not get Oppenheimer or appreciate the filmmaking craft or the brilliant acting, or even understand Nolan's film and its themes, but audiences worldwide (possibly bored by the endless superficial stories we are being fed, while our world is in serious crisis) are showing up for the film, a film which is not an established franchise and bravely deals with very serious issues. Sorry if it's not "enjoyable " enough for some of you, but, guess what, courageous filmmaking pushes the envelope and makes us think, even if we don't want to think.
    And this is where he failed. I wasn't expecting to `enjoy' Opp, but I was expecting it to inform, educate, push the envelope, shock me, disturb me, and make me think afterwards, in a similar experience to watching Schindler's List.

    Unfortunately this film delivered on none of this. Nolan ducked out of `pushing the envelope' and focused on a stupid meaningless aftermath story about whether Opp was a commie or not, instead of the horrific one which is Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In the last 45 minutes of the film, Nolan spectacularly loses his audience.

    To me, he failed as a responsible filmmaker (and when I say filmmaker, I am putting him in the same bracket as someone like Stanley Kubrick or Alan Parker, and not some popcorn director like John Woo).

    You are missing the point. It's all about the aftermath. And where we are now.

    I got his point. I just don't think it was a strong enough one.

    It wasn't an effective aftermath to terrify the audience, and it didn't deliver any message about where we are now either.

    This film should have had the effect of scaring the hell out of every living person who sees it (including politicians) to ensure we never hit nuclear warfare. It needed a few shocking, sickening images to strike the message home, and a few captions at the end too before the closing credits.

    Nolan has captured a global audience, and so he should have used it effectively and responsibly, instead of sending the audience to sleep for the last act of the movie, by indulging in something that only he was interested in seeing.

    Chill out. You didn't understand the film. That's not a problem. Most audiences are engaged with this story. You are not. Big deal. Live with it. And chill out.

    I probably sound more bothered than I really am. I guess it’s disappointment more than anything, as I had such high hopes for this film as I’m a huge Nolan fan.

    And no, I wasn’t disappointed because there wasn’t enough action or spectacular effects. With this type of subject matter I expected more from such a genius filmmaker
  • edited July 2023 Posts: 3,276
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    But Oppenheimer is filmmaking at its very best. It's an extraordinary accomplishment.
    That scene with the cheering audience and the partly muted sound? My favorite part (of the ones I actually did see). That was so well crafted.
    It wasn't an effective aftermath to terrify the audience, and it didn't deliver any message about where we are now either. This film should have had the effect of scaring the hell out of every living person who sees it (including politicians) to ensure we never hit nuclear warfare. It needed a few shocking, sickening images to strike the message home, and a few captions at the end too before the closing credits.
    This is a very valid point. We see no archive footage or photos of the aftermath of the Hiroshima or the Nagasaki bombings. Not even the blast. And like the Trinity test, I was missing the sense of scale and havoc. Yes, most adult people are in the know about all this, but if you want to send a powerful message Nolan should have gone with number one rule of filmmaking: show, don't tell.
  • edited July 2023 Posts: 1,394
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Barbie has crossed $200 million dollars in the US in 5 days.

    Oppenheimer, a 3 hour, very dense and deeply intelligent drama (with an amazing script, stunning filmmaking on all levels, and an "A" list cast, all working at the top of their games,) has drawn huge audiences (far above the estimates) and also a very high Rotten Tomatoes score, while making over $100 million in the US alone in 5 days. This is a good day for original and intelligent filmmaking.

    You may or may not get Oppenheimer or appreciate the filmmaking craft or the brilliant acting, or even understand Nolan's film and its themes, but audiences worldwide (possibly bored by the endless superficial stories we are being fed, while our world is in serious crisis) are showing up for the film, a film which is not an established franchise and bravely deals with very serious issues. Sorry if it's not "enjoyable " enough for some of you, but, guess what, courageous filmmaking pushes the envelope and makes us think, even if we don't want to think.

    Perhaps Oppenheimer requires a bit of hard work and some focus. Every film or story is not just about "fun" entertainment.

    Indy 5 and MI7 are, IMO, great entertainment. Oppenheimer is something else entirely.

    Nolan is a working at a very high level and he's in another league to most filmmakers.

    This.

    It makes the failure of Indy 5 all the more embarrassing for Disney.

  • edited July 2023 Posts: 669
    Not having seen Oppenheimer yet (I plan to this weekend), I've been sitting on the sidelines for this discussion. But it does raise some very fascinating questions about the nature of opinion vs. fact, especially when it comes to art. There are so many films that are generally considered "great" but what if someone thinks one of those is "bad"? Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but perhaps we should change it a bit to say that everyone is entitled to an informed opinion. Can saying a film like "Casablanca" or "Schindler's List" is bad actually be wrong?

    I'm just rambling but you get my gist.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,420
    I mostly agree, but I don't quite understand why you quoted me there..?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't see how Indy was the sidekick in this film.

    Not having seen Oppenheimer yet (I plan to this weekend), I've been sitting on the sidelines for this discussion. But it does raise some very fascinating questions about the nature of opinion vs. fact, especially when it comes to art. There are so many films that are generally considered "great" but what if someone thinks one of those is "bad"? Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but perhaps we should change it a bit to say that everyone is entitled to an informed opinion. Can saying a film like "Casablanca" or "Schindler's List" is bad actually be wrong?

    I'm just rambling but you get my gist.

    Or one can simply say: I understand these are greatly loved films, but it just wasn't for me.
  • Posts: 669
    mtm wrote: »
    I mostly agree, but I don't quite understand why you quoted me there..?

    Ee gahds! I'm sorry. I have absolutely no idea how I did that. I edited it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,420
    mtm wrote: »
    I mostly agree, but I don't quite understand why you quoted me there..?

    Ee gahds! I'm sorry. I have absolutely no idea how I did that. I edited it.

    Ah no problem, I thought you were responding to me. It's probably because of that bug where the forum software saves all of the drafts, even to stuff you've already posted - I'm always having to edit out stuff I quoted previously! :)
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,433
    I came looking for a DOD discussion and was thrust into a discussion about Chris Nolan and Oppenheimer. Interesting!
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    Be glad this isn't about Barbie yet :-)!
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Enough with the off-topic stuff, let's get back to Oppenheimer.
  • I wonder when we can expect Dial Of Destiny to come out on Bluray? I imagine the digital home release will be first..
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    I keep waiting for the BD, and unless they charge outrageous prices for it, I'll be among the first to buy one. There are limits, though, to what I am ready to spend. Most of my collection was well below 10 euros each, and that includes all-time classics and some of the best movies of the world. But I guess EUR 12.99 for a recenty-issued Blu-ray would be alright. I don't need special editions with a second disc for the extras (and especially not an extra DVD with the same feature - why should I wish to watch that if I have it in Full HD?).

    And I certainly won't spend extra money for a metal box ("steelbook") or that kind of nonsense. I don't care how the disc is packaged as long as it is protected, and it sits in my shelf without having anyone looking at it until taken out for a view, and so the usual plastic casing is fine.

    Another thing I'm not going to do is subscribe to a streaming service. I like physical media so far.
  • Posts: 12,474
    I’ve purposefully held off on adding any of the Indy films to my 4K collection until they do a box set with all five.
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