Indiana Jones

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  • Posts: 1,548
    In the words of Bond, "the jobs done. The bitching is dead"! Well almost.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Yikes! I just read that Mark Hamill threw out there that he'd be willing to be a villain in the next Indy film! No... I don't think it would work. Too distracting...
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Yikes! I just read that Mark Hamill threw out there that he'd be willing to be a villain in the next Indy film! No... I don't think it would work. Too distracting...

    Abner Ravenwood Jr, who has a thing for his sister.
  • Posts: 5,767
    All he´d ever get is a beat-off blister.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2018 Posts: 23,883
    bondsum wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    ...but I can't agree with your premise that I would have been only convinced by Adam West for Batman in 1967 (although I'm a big fan of his tv show by the way). I'm generally open to reimaginations and recastings and have always been that way. When it's time to go, it's time to go.
    Oh, so we do agree that Indiana Jones can be reimagined and recast then?
    Certainly. Anything can be reimagined and recast, including Indy. My point is more that it's not going to be easy to do. There has to be a solid reason and premise behind it. In this instance, it can't just be to fill a few corporate coffers. Harrison Ford has so overwhelmingly defined this character for so long, and he's done it quite iconically too. Without a literary base, there's really nothing to it apart from the films he (along with Spielberg and Lucas) have created. This, I feel, is similar to Cruise with MI, and dissimilar to Bond and Bat where there is a literary and cinematic history which exceeds the current interpretation.

    How could they do this? I think the only real way is perhaps to cast a star, as Mendelson proposes. However, even then there are no guarantees if the film isn't up to scratch, as Cruise himself learned with his ill fated Mummy remake.

    The other option of course is to give us such a fantastic film that it creates something iconic in of itself again. Difficult to do. Solo certainly didn't do that. Neither did Kingdom of the Crystal Skull to be fair, but it had Harrison and nostalgia, which was apparently enough (it ended up being the 2nd highest grossing film globally in 2008, just behind the beast that was TDK. The last time these two storied franchises went head to head was in the battle of 1989, when Indy beat the Bat to take top spot for the year).
    bondsum wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Even if Batman comic sales were declining at a point in time, those comics still existed, and so there was a history to draw from in the future, including a villain roster etc. The same applies to Bond. I don't think we can overestimate the power of the literary source, even if it's used loosely.
    You're missing the point of my comment. Had it not been for the TV show's "Batmania" the comics would have ceased to exist. It was the triumphant success of the TV show and its tie-in merchandising that dragged it back from the abyss. I know you're thinking from the present and with the hindsight of comic superheroes now being all the rage, but you can't seem to grasp a different perspective from another era before all that took place. Would the current trend of superhero movies have existed without William Dozier's successful Batman series? Would the Salkinds have shown an interest in making a Superman movie had it not been for "Batmania" of the 60's paving the way several years before that? Would comics still be only confined to spotty nerds that couldn't get a girlfriend without the success of Batman? Would the current superhero movies exist without George Lucas advancing digital-effects through his ILM? I seriously think not.

    I'm merely demonstrating how things can change and how a different actor can replace an actor that defined the role previously, that's all. It's been done before and it can be done again.
    I agree with your last point. It can certainly be done. I just don't think it's going to be easy in this case, that's all.

    Regarding the comics, I get your point about the successful films (and tv series) helping to sustain and even enliven the respective comics. That's a fair point. This is an ideal situation of course, where both mediums reinforce one another and help both succeed.

    I still think even without that (meaning even if the comics were no more), it's easier to release a film if there is some literary source behind it. This just makes sense to me. As an example, I've not read a comic in at least 15 years, but if someone told me they were releasing a new Batman film with Poison Ivy as chief villain I would still have my memories from the past to draw from and be excited for. It certainly impacted me when I heard that Bain and Ra's were going to be in Nolan's films. This doesn't exist in cases where there is no literary source.
    bondsum wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Yes, Harrison is rather old for this job. I think he has defined both characters (Solo and Indy) though, and even though he was a supporting character when the original SW film was released, he became by far its biggest star by the time the original trilogy finished its run and I think that contributed to the difficulty in replacing him for both roles.
    I don't disagree that Harrison Ford was popular in the role, but he's no longer the A-list actor of the 80's and 90's he once was. He's an old man now. The kids need to understand that no-one stays young forever.
    Definitely agree here. That's why I'm not so keen on this film.
    bondsum wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Moreover, he has defined Indy for many decades, and similarly with Solo.
    No, not really. Only for one decade if we're going to be precise. Sure, there was a belated Indiana Jones 4 that the majority seemed to dislike but went to see anyway out of nostalgic reasons, therefore making it a nice BO earner. Sadly, it didn't work for the bloated mess of Blade Runner 2049. Of course, VHS and DVD sales reached out to a much younger audience that somehow feel that they have an emotional attachment to the original series and believe that the series has been going for decades, but both only really existed within the late 70's and 80's time-capsule kept alive by over-the-counter sales. I have no affiliation with the modern-cinemagoer that pays to see a new Star Wars movie, that's for sure, so I can't understand their way of thinking. Though I think some of them are wising up to being played by the studios.
    I don't agree here. The original Indy films may have only spanned a decade in the theatre, but the character of Indy is associated only with Ford, and has been since inception. That's almost 4 decades now. Nobody else has played this role and the character lives through the prior films, which are available in different mediums which kids probably grew up with while viewing them with their parents. The same thing probably is the case with Han - meaning that kids who saw TFA in 2015 probably knew exactly who he was on account of seeing the classics (perhaps several times) on dvd, blu or via streaming. That certainly was the case with me.

    Blade Runner is quite different because it was never a big hit as far as I'm aware. Rather, it was more of a cult thing. I'm pretty certain all those hardliners will see 2049 eventually, either in the theatre or in the comfort of their own home.
    bondsum wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think something similar will apply to MI once Cruise hangs it up. Will there be demand for MI after Cruise? I'm not so sure, although it's possible if they reimagine it as an ensemble affair. Just recasting someone as Hunt and moving forward as though nothing happened wouldn't work imho.
    I have no idea. But the big selling point of MI is the stunts, so whoever replaces Cruise will have to be as much of a daredevil as pint-sized Tom if the series is going to survive without him.
    I agree, unless they choose to reimagine it without the stunts and make it more of a team espionage sort of thing rather than a team actioner. I'm not as confident as others that it can survive Cruise though.
    bondsum wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm somewhat ambivalent about this new Indy film. While I'd love to see him don the fedora and whip one more time, I see the risks, and perhaps they should just close it out now rather than continue. After all, he's really not the draw he once was.
    I'll be honest here. I really don't want to see Ford playing him anymore. I think he's far too old. This is coming from someone who paid to see the movies when they first came out.
    I can understand that. Fair enough.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,194
    I can completely relate to those who are concerned that Harrison is too old for how many of us want to see this character portrayed. But, as has been noted, he’s in great shape and if needed the magicians at ILM can, in a totally convincing manner , knock some years off.
    If Kasdan can come up with a fantastic script that captures the high adventure of the first three, and Spielberg brings his A game to a largely practical production, I’m in.
  • Posts: 4,813
    I don’t want to see him cgi’d The whole movie- I just think there’s plenty of wiggle room because Ford is so fit.
    Just because Ford is pushing 80 (by the time the movie comes out) doesn’t mean Indy has to
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,957
    I don’t want to see him cgi’d The whole movie- I just think there’s plenty of wiggle room because Ford is so fit.
    Just because Ford is pushing 80 (by the time the movie comes out) doesn’t mean Indy has to

    That's what I don't want, either: if they're going to shell out a lot more money to de-age him and make him look younger than he really is, then they should definitely recast or simply not bother. I guess we'll see how it goes, but hot damn I already thought he was too old in KOTCS, and this is going to be over one decade later.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,194
    The thing is, the “de-aging” does not have to be substantial. Believe me there is s lot of it being done under the radar on many performers. The people who do them are called digital facelift artist.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    talos7 wrote: »
    The thing is, the “de-aging” does not have to be substantial. Believe me there is s lot of it being done under the radar on many performers. The people who do them are called digital facelift artist.

    That's CHEATING!! ;)
    But in the end, CGI we don't notice is GOOD CGI.... so, whatever.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited July 2018 Posts: 25,041
    I watched this video a few days ago on digital retouching Pee Wee Herman was mentioned.



    The Blade Trinity one is bizarre.
  • Posts: 4,813
    I think for me personally, if Indy 5 gets made with Ford, great; if not- that's OK too.

    Bottom line, I want more of this:

    220px-Indiana_Jones_in_Raiders_of_the_Lost_Ark.jpg
    indy%20and%20marion.jpg
    2cda8dda11dd48ba2268238f8f00bee4.jpg

    a lot more than I want more of this:

    Steven-Spielberg-Harrison-Ford-reuniting-for-fifth-Indiana-Jones-movie-Reboot-for-2019.jpg
    shaya-labaf-ne-poyavitsya-v-filme-indiana-dzhons-5-41699.jpg
    IndyYouGotMe.jpg

    The character Indiana Jones is a LOT cooler as a younger man. I want to see him escape from a trap filled cave within an inch of his life, dirty and with pointy whiskers. Shoot dozens of people, get blood on his knuckles. Drink whiskey straight from the bottle. All that and then be able to shave, throw on a suit and go back to his College.


    So in short, I'll be ok with recasting. But if ANYONE has the potential to still pull one more off, it's Harrison Ford.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,194
    Those photos makes one realize how “young” he looked in Crystal Skull.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    talos7 wrote: »
    Those photos makes one realize how “young” he looked in Crystal Skull.

    RIGHT?
  • Posts: 16,147
    I thought he looked alright in CRYSTAL SKULL, and I don't doubt he'll look fine in the next one. I am gutted, though it's being delayed yet again.

    Has there been a new official release date announced?
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited July 2018 Posts: 10,591
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I thought he looked alright in CRYSTAL SKULL, and I don't doubt he'll look fine in the next one. I am gutted, though it's being delayed yet again.

    Has there been a new official release date announced?
    No official confirmation as of yet, I believe. Just the Variety report.
  • Posts: 16,147
    jake24 wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I thought he looked alright in CRYSTAL SKULL, and I don't doubt he'll look fine in the next one. I am gutted, though it's being delayed yet again.

    Has there been a new official release date announced?
    No official confirmation as of yet, I believe. Just the Variety report.

    Makes me wonder is the script they were working on was really so bad they had to start over.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,957
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I thought he looked alright in CRYSTAL SKULL, and I don't doubt he'll look fine in the next one. I am gutted, though it's being delayed yet again.

    Has there been a new official release date announced?
    No official confirmation as of yet, I believe. Just the Variety report.

    Makes me wonder is the script they were working on was really so bad they had to start over.

    Given it's the same guy who wrote the horrendous KOTCS script, my money's on: yes, it was that bad. Why they brought him back initially is beyond me - all it resulted in was lost money and wasted time, it would seem.

    Don't get me wrong, I love this series and I'd love another great installment, but I'm not feeling too optimistic thus far, either.
  • Posts: 16,147
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I thought he looked alright in CRYSTAL SKULL, and I don't doubt he'll look fine in the next one. I am gutted, though it's being delayed yet again.

    Has there been a new official release date announced?
    No official confirmation as of yet, I believe. Just the Variety report.

    Makes me wonder is the script they were working on was really so bad they had to start over.

    Given it's the same guy who wrote the horrendous KOTCS script, my money's on: yes, it was that bad. Why they brought him back initially is beyond me - all it resulted in was lost money and wasted time, it would seem.

    Don't get me wrong, I love this series and I'd love another great installment, but I'm not feeling too optimistic thus far, either.

    Me neither at the moment, given that the original 2019 date was pushed back a year, which seems to have been wasted on another KOTCS quality script.

    Now we'll probably have to wait, as Luke might say, "a whole 'nother year!" just to see if this new script will be an improvement.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,957
    Didn't see Solo but I can only surmise Kasdan will deliver something much better than Koepp ever would, so a rewrite is a good thing in my book.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    If Crystal Skull had been made in 2005, and by a Speilberg who was actually engaged in the project (perhaps instead of the awful War of the World's remake), then it could have been considered a classic along with the others. The idea of moving forward to the 50's breathes live into a tired concept, but I feel they made far too many bizarre choices, like they were trying to make Indie work against modern action films, and not sure how to do it.

    Its interesting that since the. The idea of an older professional coming out of retirement for one last ride has become a phenomenon in itself, popularized by Stallone and Neeson. But it was strange that the American agents were suspicious of Indiana, instead of desiring of his help in finding the lost Alien Skulls. Too me it would make more sense if he agreed to help them, perhaps intimidated by their threats to cut funding to his college if he doesn't. Then he ends up kidnaped by the Russians all the same, and we can leave out the whole Son, Wife, family angle which seemed totally out of place in an Indiana Jones adventure.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,020
    The screenwriter obviously has a big effect on the final product, but let's remember he has to satisfy the main creative parties --Spielberg, Lucas, Ford--, so they have their share of responsibility for the quality of the script if they all ask for a number of incompatible elements to be integrated into it. Koepp's work left a great deal to be desired in KotCS, but I have the impression there were bunch of things he was told to add to the script that were difficult to juggle in a satisfactory way.
  • Posts: 533
    2020? That's when the next Indiana Jones movie will be released? Which means it might possible be made in 2019. When Harrison Ford is 77 years old. Huh.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,957
    DRush76 wrote: »
    2020? That's when the next Indiana Jones movie will be released? Which means it might possible be made in 2019. When Harrison Ford is 77 years old. Huh.

    No, even worse: it was slated to release in July 2019, then pushed to July 2020 - now it looks like it's been delayed by yet another year, possibly more, so it likely won't even begin filming until Summer 2020.
  • edited July 2018 Posts: 4,813
    Some frightening perspective: if this really does get made in 2020, Ford will be the same age as Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino :-O

    Now.... Ford is in great shape for his age, and Clint (who’s also tough as nails) was arguably ‘playing older’, but Jesus.

    We should expect Indy to punch a guy, sure, and hopefully use his damn gun, but I think at the very least his whip-swinging days are over.....
  • Posts: 1,165
    Why won't Disney just reboot with a new actor featuring Indy in his prime.
    They're forgetting "the first rule if mass media!"
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,194
    Some frightening perspective: if this really does get made in 2020, Ford will be the same age as Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino :-O

    Now.... Ford is in great shape for his age, and Clint (who’s also tough as nails) was arguably ‘playing older’, but Jesus..

    Get off of my lawn, Sallah!
  • Posts: 2,107
    I, too, was thinking of Clint in Gran Torino and what Indy movie like that could be like.
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