DIE ANOTHER DAY: First 30 minutes perfect?

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  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    Posts: 3,497
    [img][/img]
    DAD is probably better than Skyfail and definitely better than Licence to kill, but that does not make it a good Bond-movie.

    Where's my Scotch? :(
  • One thing I think we can agree on is that Tamahrori undeniably missed the mark in terms of story and character. However, who else found the editting to be really off the mark? A lot has been said about QOS's choppy and haphazard editting (I believe the term 'motion-sickness' is often used to summ it up), but is DAD worse? In the car chase Wagner's editting almost detracts from the spectacle and fails to showcase the beauty of the location. It's a very strange way to put a chase together in any movie, let alone fare like xXx and the Fast and the Furious, which DAD is often compared to. However, having said this for me one of the best shots in the movie is that first frame in iceland as the camera zooms across the icebergs and then we get that glorious shot of the aston roaring down the road to Arnold's terrific overtly-Bondian score, it's all one beautiful take and is a hugely ambitious piece of filmmaking. The editting does provide a slight jolt, but overall it works it the scene's favour. I know the scene dosen't really add anything to the movie and in no way improves the film, but that moment never fails to give me goosebumps.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I just watched Moonraker and I have to say I prefer DAD over it. Except for a few moments, at no point in Moonraker did I feel captivated. At least DAD has a decent first half, and the second half keeps you awake (minus the CGI) however bad it may get.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    acoppola wrote:
    Brosnan is a good Bond, but he went along with the dumbing down. He was a Bond star and hugely popular. If he had told the producers he will quit after his third unless they work better on character, then believe me they would have listened.

    Brosnan seemed to be more concerned with ramping up the sex and even said so. I would have ramped up the character development as first priority.
    Well, that might be a tad harsh; I think Bronsan did well with the role and the material he was given, but he was playing the part when everyone seemed a lot more concerned with the style of Bond as opposed to the substance of Bond.

    I cannot let Brosnan off the hook that easily. I mean the Christmas Jones character in TWINE was the alarm bell for his era. There is no way he had no idea that the film would turn out like it did. He was game for it. You should check out his interviews for DAD where he says DAD is grounded in reality.

    The producers would never have dared attempted a DAD style film with Craig. They did with Brosnan.

    You are right. Brosnan's Bond was perfect for style but weak for substance. And the Craig era just shows how substance is king and even more interesting when married to style.



  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189
    You should check out his interviews for DAD where he says DAD is grounded in reality.

    I know the interviews you're talking about. He must look back on those and cringe.

    In theory Brosnan SHOULD be right. The premise behind DAD (Bond being captured) is harder and more "real" than what had been done in most of the films before.
  • Posts: 1,052
    The only positive thing you can really say about DAD is that it couldn't be mistaken for anything other than a Bond film, whereas something like QOS could be anything.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Each film comes from where they are at any given point in time. They had done the serious approach with TD following years of RM. they then brought PB in and his approach was lighter, but the films were making money, and money talks. His films were spectacular action films and audiences were quite happy with that. Only after the super successful DAD did Eon decide they couldn't continue down that route and needed a change.

    DC wanted a more grounded Bond, but that was what BB and MW wanted as well. It was where they were going with Bond so regardless of DCs wishes it was the route they were taking. Yes the actors have big inputs, but ultimately BB and MW are in charge and it's their necks on the line.
  • w2bond wrote:
    I just watched Moonraker and I have to say I prefer DAD over it. Except for a few moments, at no point in Moonraker did I feel captivated. At least DAD has a decent first half, and the second half keeps you awake (minus the CGI) however bad it may get.

    I feel very much the same way. Die Another Day has some interesting, entertaining moments in it -- which is not to say Moonraker doesn't, but of the two, I find Die Another Day is the more watchable film.

    John Cleese almost always makes a film better. :)

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote:
    You should check out his interviews for DAD where he says DAD is grounded in reality.

    I know the interviews you're talking about. He must look back on those and cringe.

    In theory Brosnan SHOULD be right. The premise behind DAD (Bond being captured) is harder and more "real" than what had been done in most of the films before.

    The pyjamas scene shows how seriously he took the PTS premise. It was the equivalent of Craig having sex immediately after being whipped on the bottomless chair by Le Chiffre. That was the reality Brosnan was grounded in.

    Scenes like the pyjamas were fine if you had not read the rest of the script before hand with the torture in Korea. Then I would forgive.





  • Posts: 122
    JamesCraig wrote:
    [img][/img]
    DAD is probably better than Skyfail and definitely better than Licence to kill, but that does not make it a good Bond-movie. [/quot ? oh ok glad someone thinks so lmao
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    NicNac wrote:
    Each film comes from where they are at any given point in time. They had done the serious approach with TD following years of RM. they then brought PB in and his approach was lighter, but the films were making money, and money talks. His films were spectacular action films and audiences were quite happy with that. Only after the super successful DAD did Eon decide they couldn't continue down that route and needed a change.

    DC wanted a more grounded Bond, but that was what BB and MW wanted as well. It was where they were going with Bond so regardless of DCs wishes it was the route they were taking. Yes the actors have big inputs, but ultimately BB and MW are in charge and it's their necks on the line.

    It is true that audiences certainly were not complaining before DAD. DAD was also a misfire because the producers felt that was what audiences demanded from the lighter touch Bond. I certainly was not hearing from anyone for a return to the serious tone.

  • Posts: 122
    JamesCraig wrote:
    GE is miles ahead of DAD, even though I've come to like TWINE more over time.

    I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited November 2012 Posts: 4,520
    Some people feel DAD be over promoted, for a part i agree. In The Netherlands the movie is 9 January 2003 release date movie and the movie be delayd from 5 December 2002 (1 month and 4 days later). My idea about Skyfall promotion is mixed for a part i feel the movie be a litle bit less promoted as DAD. Difrence be no or bad merchendise release and no tv documentry's this time.

    Stuard Baid be past twice. First time be with DAD, he be the uncredit 4th editor of Mission Impossible 2 and Eon whant make simalar movie. Eon Insteed there asking Chrstian Wagner from Spy Game and who be the second editor of Mission Impossible 2 who's work later on be correct by third edtor and Stuard Baid. There correct it and ask him for CR, past him again for QOS (but strange enough for Sony he edit Vantage Point in the year of QOS.) and ask him back for Skyfall.

    Martin Cambell and Philip Meheux coming back for CR and together that some people like to see a male for the title song that be a wish from a lot of CMB/Mi6 members. Martin Cambell disapointd so much with CR that i don't whant him comingback. The movie is to violence and inspecialy for introduction of new Bond actor.

    Lindy Hemming's last movie be Casino Royale. QOS proofs how happy iam she is gone and whyle this be same woman who work Ge til Twine, Harry Potter 2 and Batman movies, DAD in specialy disapointed me.

    Peter Lamont. Also his last movie be Casino Royale and iam happy with it. QOS proof there can inprove with a inspyred production designer who also take look back to Ken Adams design. The production design need inprovement since Ge/TMND. The movies after that it look like it must have from the locations and there be afraid to make a step back or think bigger with Cadiz. I don't whant blame Peter Lamont to much, because also without possible there be no budget any more after Gassner spend it on the Lotery hotel for the hotel in the desert. It be a shame the guy from Goldeneye Derk Meddings don't life any more.

    The biggest flaw of DAD be cinematopgraphy and again the only moment it realy works be the gunbarrel scene, i also don't like what he did with Tomb Raider 2. Mabey the producer thaught what we can with yellow (Twine and later also with CR) and Harry Potter/LOTR with Green we can to with icecold cinematopgraphy.

    With QOS there understand better what Bond need, whyle things stil can inprove of course.

    What some people don't like or see as big flaw of DAD i don't see that way. We must not vergot DAD get 1 or 2 re-writes in October 2001 and 2001 be the year Internet get a big boost. But i remember from messages 2001-2002 people whant more spying and with DAD there try that a bit. Die Another Day's best action scene be the swordfight.
  • Posts: 2,341
    Like fine wine, some films age gracefully. Not DAD
    I guess we need a DAD to fully appreciate the grand films that came before and after it.
    The idea of Bond being captured and tortured was good, him having to go rogue was fine, his nifty detective work that leads him to Cuba...good. then we meet Jinx then we meet John cleese and his invisible car...then we go to the ice palace...finally the wind surfing scene...the silly nods to the previous 40 years of Bond...

    No, as time goes on DAD will continue to be viewed as one of the worst films in the franchise.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    Posts: 3,497
    w2bond wrote:
    I just watched Moonraker and I have to say I prefer DAD over it. Except for a few moments, at no point in Moonraker did I feel captivated. At least DAD has a decent first half, and the second half keeps you awake (minus the CGI) however bad it may get.

    I feel very much the same way. Die Another Day has some interesting, entertaining moments in it -- which is not to say Moonraker doesn't, but of the two, I find Die Another Day is the more watchable film.

    John Cleese almost always makes a film better. :)

    Not always, he was awful in both TWINE & DAD. This new Q is how it should've been back then.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Hands up if you'd rather celebrate NightFire than DAD?
  • JamesCraig wrote:
    Not always, he was awful in both TWINE & DAD. This new Q is how it should've been back then.

    What was wrong with him in DAD? I thought he was funny and sarcy and it was nice how Brosnan didn't call him Q until he'd proven himself.

    I liked the new Q but I'm not sure I like the whole computer whizz approach. Cleese was better imo (but nobody will top Desmond).
    Hands up if you'd rather celebrate NightFire than DAD?

    :-h
  • Posts: 1,492
    [ Cleese was better
    :-h

    Cleese was Basil Fawlty as usual but in the general pileup that is DAD he isn' too noticeable.

  • actonsteve wrote:
    Cleese was Basil Fawlty as usual but in the general pileup that is DAD he isn' too noticeable.

    He was Basil Fawlty meets Desmond Llewelyn but I enjoyed that. He was really sarcy and funny.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189
    actonsteve wrote:
    [ Cleese was better
    :-h

    Cleese was Basil Fawlty as usual but in the general pileup that is DAD he isn' too noticeable.

    I love Basil Fawlty...and??? ;)

    The "wish I could make you vanish" line was a nod to the "I wish you were a mouse" moment in the Communication Problems episode of Fawlty Towers.

    0.46

  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    Just watched DAD again today for first time since about 2005. It actually has some good scenes - the DNA clinic section works quite well, every scene with Bond and M is good, the Aston Martin chase is pretty good, as is the 'Virtual Reality' section in MI6 building. But that is the main problem with the film, it has a few good scenes and a reasonably good performance from Brosnan, other than that it just has too many rubbish ideas that are poorly executed.
    Unlike popular opinion, I don't think the invisible car is the most offencive idea. That honour must go to the disgusting dragster CGI which was unforgivable. Also whoever thought John Cleese should have been Q was very wrong.
    The difference in quality inbetween DAD and CR is huge. Very much like when AVTAK went over the top and the series was then 're-booted' with Daylights.
    Maybe the series needs a s**t entry every so often to then re-evaluate things.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I always thought the invisable car was fairly mild next to Bond speeding across Iceland/surfing the wave.
  • Posts: 3,327
    DAD is gut wrenchingly awful. I would go as far as saying it is one of the worst films ever made, not just the worst Bond film.

    It is down there at the bottom of the barrel alonside Batman & Robin. No one in their right mind would celebrate such utter garbage.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I am watching it right now. When a film has things like "Yo Momma" and "I got the thrust of it" as actual dialogue, we must then draw a line somewhere. I mean, honestly...
  • Posts: 3,327
    I am watching it right now. When a film has things like "Yo Momma" and "I got the thrust of it" as actual dialogue, we must then draw a line somewhere. I mean, honestly...
    It is truly despicable. I cannot watch any of that film at all without wanting to throw something at the TV.

  • Posts: 11,189
    DAD is gut wrenchingly awful. I would go as far as saying it is one of the worst films ever made, not just the worst Bond film.

    It is down there at the bottom of the barrel alonside Batman & Robin. No one in their right mind would celebrate such utter garbage.

    Don't lose your "cool" @Jetset :))
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    I am watching it right now. When a film has things like "Yo Momma" and "I got the thrust of it" as actual dialogue, we must then draw a line somewhere. I mean, honestly...

    Tell me about it. DAD was blatant MTV Bond. This is the only film in Bond history that made me wish the franchise would stop. I cannot be sympathetic to the film when with the budget it got, there is no excuse with the result. Absolutely none.

    Unfortunately for Brosnan, he fell into the trap of complacency. He assumed that once you do three films you are safe in the role. DAD is the proof of what can happen when you get "too comfortable in the role."



  • Posts: 3,327
    acoppola wrote:
    I am watching it right now. When a film has things like "Yo Momma" and "I got the thrust of it" as actual dialogue, we must then draw a line somewhere. I mean, honestly...

    Tell me about it. DAD was blatant MTV Bond. This is the only film in Bond history that made me wish the franchise would stop. I cannot be sympathetic to the film when with the budget it got, there is no excuse with the result. Absolutely none.

    Unfortunately for Brosnan, he fell into the trap of complacency. He assumed that once you do three films you are safe in the role. DAD is the proof of what can happen when you get "too comfortable in the role."



    Let's hope the producers never go down that dark road again. The good thing is, Craig has a voice that the producers listen to, and I doubt he would ever want to appear in such garbage.

    Whereas Brozza on the other hand was more than happy to go along with the ride.....

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    acoppola wrote:
    I am watching it right now. When a film has things like "Yo Momma" and "I got the thrust of it" as actual dialogue, we must then draw a line somewhere. I mean, honestly...

    Tell me about it. DAD was blatant MTV Bond. This is the only film in Bond history that made me wish the franchise would stop. I cannot be sympathetic to the film when with the budget it got, there is no excuse with the result. Absolutely none.

    Unfortunately for Brosnan, he fell into the trap of complacency. He assumed that once you do three films you are safe in the role. DAD is the proof of what can happen when you get "too comfortable in the role."



    Let's hope the producers never go down that dark road again. The good thing is, Craig has a voice that the producers listen to, and I doubt he would ever want to appear in such garbage.

    Whereas Brozza on the other hand was more than happy to go along with the ride.....

    What comes around, goes around. One day, the serious Bond style will lose popularity at the box office and I imagine we will see a return to OTT.

    Craig could also end up in a film that is a disaster. But unlikely I would think as long as he sticks to his guns.

  • Posts: 4,409
    What is most interesting to me about DAD is that the film really retreats into the fantasy after a very promising opening act.

    Here the story throws all the elements at Bond and really forces the character to his knees. He’s given a real bashing and the initial revenge thriller seems like fresh ground. But the film begins to deter from this path and slowly begins to become more fantastical.

    right down to the grainy, desaturated cinematography and Kleinman's career-best PTS, DAD has one of the strongest opening act's in the Bond saga. One that isn't afraid to be iconoclastic, subversive and political. Remember there was some protest from the North Korean government over how their country was depicted in the film.

    The action beat with the hovercrafts is genuinely thrilling as well......

    EQQvRU_WoAEB5Ic.jpg
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