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Why Octopussy is Roger's most perfect Bond movie

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    My 12 year old son by the way agrees with those who rate OP as Moore's best. I raised him in Bond to make his own opinions and choices and never try to influence him in that regard, I want him to be his own man.
    Sadly, my 13 year old Son likes CHUCK way better than Bond.. at least it's spy-like stuff... maybe later with Bond for him!
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    Moore was starting to look his age, but in spite of this I really consider this to be Moore's Best. Forgive me affiondos but OP trumps TSWLM.
    I agree; TSWLM was great fun, but not so espionage-y.

  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    OP is definitely entertaining but I can't agree it's Moore's best. Count me in with TSWLM crowd
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    pachazo wrote:
    OP is definitely entertaining but I can't agree it's Moore's best. Count me in with TSWLM crowd
    Take the ultra-cool Lotus sub & Derek Medding's nicely financed FX out of TSWLM and what have you?
    OTOH, OP has a pretty good espionage plot backed up by solid acting & mostly serious direction not at all relying on sheer FX spectacle.

    That's my story & I'm sticking to it. :))
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    edited January 2013 Posts: 5,634
    There's already at least three ongoing threads on this very subject, it may be of some relevance

    Octopussy - A Missed Opportunity - started by @GoldenGun

    Octopussy - A reappraisal - started by @PrinceKamalKhan

    Octopussy (1983) - started by @DarthDimi

    there's about two or three others about the pages also, incidentally
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    Octopussy is a fantastic film, the few silly gags that are mentioned last a few seconds at most and can't really detract from the fact that the plot is actually really interesting, the villians are good, a decent Bond Girl, the PTS is so good, the last third is breathtaking and Rog gives maybe his best performance?
  • LotusEspritLotusEsprit
    Posts: 160
    Octopussy is a wonderful movie! I enjoyed it so much while watching the blue rays.

    It's a pity that Glen decided to drag it down with some really bad humour. I mean, with exception of the Tarzan yell, it's not really low-point humour...but still.

    The plot and the Germany scenes are fantastic (except for maybe the stereotypical German couple) and the bomb defusing scene is one of my absolute favourite and definitive Bond moments! Fantastic acting, serious, exciting and really great directing by Glen.

    The only thing that also weakens the movie is the end with the circus attacking the castle. I just can't get past how ridiculous it looks in certain scenes. And why the hell is Bond arriving with Q(!?) in a hot-air balloon?!?

    Nevermind, fantastic movie and for whatever reason, Moore looks much better in this one than in FYEO. I don't know why, but the only Moore movie in which I had issues with his age, this time around, was FYEO... probably because of the way too young Carole Bouquet...
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited January 2013 Posts: 9,117
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    He is great in Germany even while wearing clown and gorilla suit, no question. The fight on top of the plane suspends belief a tad, but not enough to ruin his last great effort. If not for the gags and some lame quips, it could have been Moore's best but for me it's this schizophrenic quality that keeps it below FYEO, LALD, and Spy. Still, it beats the holy hell out of TMWTGG, AVTAK, and MR even with the ways you can compare it to the latter, and is far more comparable to my three Moore favorites in general.

    My 12 year old son by the way agrees with those who rate OP as Moore's best. I raised him in Bond to make his own opinions and choices and never try to influence him in that regard, I want him to be his own man.

    Just 12 and he already has more discernment than his old man; rating OP the best of Rog.

    Top job LeeChaChing jnr!
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited January 2013 Posts: 12,837
    chrisisall wrote:
    pachazo wrote:
    OP is definitely entertaining but I can't agree it's Moore's best. Count me in with TSWLM crowd
    Take the ultra-cool Lotus sub & Derek Medding's nicely financed FX out of TSWLM and what have you?

    You still have the amazing PTS, Jaws, Stromberg and Strombergs death, brilliant set design, a nice subplot about what seemed like just another random henchman killed, beautiful locations and cinematography, etc.

    As much as I love OP I think the jungle chase puts it below Spy for me.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited January 2013 Posts: 11,189
    I agree with @thelivingroyale

    Personally I think Spy still edges it a BIT as Moore's best Bond film (top locations, sets and of course the epic ski jump) but OP is not far behind in second place.
  • Jones_The_BondJones_The_Bond
    Posts: 344
    I really struggle to define 'best' when discussing the Bond films of any era. It tends to be a mood thing with me. That being said, I am a great admirer of Octopussy. George Macdonald Fraser's influence seems to give it a little more adventurous ('Boy's Own') feel whilst retaining the Cold War, espionage aspect.

    Am a huge fan of Fraser's 'Flashman' (Harry Flashman being a rather different British hero to Bond, of course...) novels, so perhaps it was inevitable that I would look on Octopussy with great fondness.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    edited January 2013 Posts: 4,813
    It's definitely up there-- but I just can't call it my favorite one.... something's holding me back. TSWLM still wins for me- though it's a close race

    Moore looks his best and silences all who call him 'the funny Bond' by shooting the main villain in his noodles X_X
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    LotusEsprit wrote:
    And why the hell is Bond arriving with Q(!?) in a hot-air balloon?!?
    It's the 'kitchen sink' factor to give it a grand finale. Remember there was talk of it possibly being Moore's last go at this.
    And it really should have been IMO.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    In the Bond archives book, there's indication from all Octopussy was planned as Moore's final film. Even he thought he was done with Bond after that but it's success proved otherwise.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    As much as I love OP I think the jungle chase puts it below Spy for me.
    I may be in the minority here (in fact I'm sure I am), but when he tells that tiger to siiiT, I LOL every time! And it's not even dopey to me- it's like Bond saw that demo on the telly and just mimicked it in hurried desperation and by the gods, it WORKED!
    =))
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    chrisisall wrote:
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    As much as I love OP I think the jungle chase puts it below Spy for me.
    I may be in the minority here (in fact I'm sure I am), but when he tells that tiger to siiiT, I LOL every time! And it's not even dopey to me- it's like Bond saw that demo on the telly and just mimicked it in hurried desperation and by the gods, it WORKED!
    =))

    'Sit, Hiss off, Fill her up please, It's all in the wrist, keep you in curry for a few weeks won't it?'

    OP is packed with some classic Rog.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    'Sit, Hiss off, Fill her up please, It's all in the wrist, keep you in curry for a few weeks won't it?'
    OP is packed with some classic Rog.
    We reach, bro! :)>- :-c
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    edited January 2013 Posts: 1,497
    Octopussy IS the quintessential Roger Moore Bond film IMO. It culminates everything that was signature of Moore's Bond: the grand exotic adventure, the romantic charm, the quip, the raised eyebrow... OP stands atop as a great Bond film. Despite the tarzan yell (a minor offense in my book), OP strikes the perfect balance of danger & suspense with lighthearted escapist fantasy. FYEO, while also great in it's own right, placed one too many akward humourous moments left over from the MR dump bin, that tilted the otherwise serious film off kilter. OP is perfectly refined in story, character, suspense, and overall feel of a Bond film. The action sequences are top notch, especially in the PTS - yet Rog manages to slip in a bit of humour at just the right moment (winking at the Cuban soldier). EON no doubt was going for broke having to go up against Kevin McClory and Sean Connery the same year. John Barry also crafts the ultimate Roger Moore score: smooth, romantic strings throughout. This should have been Rog's swansong: leaving on an all-time high. No doubt it is his definitive outing.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2013 Posts: 17,827
    JBFan626 wrote:
    No doubt it is his definitive outing.
    @JBFan626 THAT is one bloody fine review of it, and one I fell short of being able to articulate my own self. Cheers!

    I can't believe back in '83 as a kid, I was actually more dazzled by NSNA, but then, in those days my favourite Bond move was DAF, so I will excuse my being DAFt. ;)
  • LotusEspritLotusEsprit
    Posts: 160
    chrisisall wrote:
    LotusEsprit wrote:
    And why the hell is Bond arriving with Q(!?) in a hot-air balloon?!?
    It's the 'kitchen sink' factor to give it a grand finale. Remember there was talk of it possibly being Moore's last go at this.
    And it really should have been IMO.
    And that may be true, but still there is no reason for Q to be there (and risking his life mind you). And I am pretty sure there would have been easier or more practical ways of Bond arrving on the scene.
    But I know, I am looking to deep into it right now ;-)
  • actonsteveactonsteve
    Posts: 1,492
    Jones_The_Bond wrote:
    I really struggle to define 'best' when discussing the Bond films of any era. It tends to be a mood thing with me. That being said, I am a great admirer of Octopussy. George Macdonald Fraser's influence seems to give it a little more adventurous ('Boy's Own') feel whilst retaining the Cold War, espionage aspect.

    Am a huge fan of Fraser's 'Flashman' (Harry Flashman being a rather different British hero to Bond, of course...) novels, so perhaps it was inevitable that I would look on Octopussy with great fondness.

    I am a big fan of the GMF Flashman books. 'Flashman and the Great Game' is a little like OP with a maharani being a central character. I think GMF did a good job on the script which is one of the most imaginative. The Yo Yo buzzsaw was his invention as were the badmashes in the skuzzy bar and much to the filmakers surprise floating palaces did exist for real in India and wern't a fictional invention.

    OP is my third favourite Bond film and the last time I watched it my belly turned over when the plane turned upside down with Bond on the roof.

    Great stuff.
  • Jones_The_BondJones_The_Bond
    Posts: 344
    George Macdonald Fraser was a deceptively superb historian as well as an imaginative author. I find the historical footnotes in his novels to be almost as entertaining as the main narrative.

    Didn't know that about the floating palaces in Octopussy. It doesn't surprise me though. GMF was painstakingly accurate when it came to even the smallest historical detail -much to the annoyance of his detractors, no doubt.

  • actonsteveactonsteve
    Posts: 1,492
    Jones_The_Bond wrote:
    .

    Didn't know that about the floating palaces in Octopussy. It doesn't surprise me though. GMF was painstakingly accurate when it came to even the smallest historical detail -much to the annoyance of his detractors, no doubt.

    I remember on the making of docu the filmakers scouted in India and the script mentioned floating palacesw. They couldn't find any in Jaipur but found everything they were looking for in Udaipur.

    Udaipur might actually get my vote for best Bond location after the Meteora and Istanbul.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    Amongst all the grandeur, my only small gripe was that the final attack looks very on-set. A real location would have made it look much better IMO.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I enjoy Octopussy; it is fun at times (I especially like Maud and Desmond in this one), but it does rank below FYEO and TSWLM for me. I agree, though, that it should have been Roger's last one - a nice send off to a great Bond.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2013 Posts: 17,827
    4EverBonded wrote:
    it does rank below FYEO and TSWLM for me.
    Is it just me? Hamlish's music for TSWLM is mostly inoffensive and even interesting at times, but Conti's score makes FYEO nearly unwatchable for me!!!
    OP has the brilliantly beautiful Barry notes...
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    chrisisall wrote:
    4EverBonded wrote:
    it does rank below FYEO and TSWLM for me.
    Is it just me? Hamlish's music for TSWLM is mostly inoffensive and even interesting at times, but Conti's score makes FYEO nearly unwatchable for me!!!
    OP has the brilliantly beautiful Barry notes...

    I agree on Spy. FYEO, I used to dislike also. But the score gets much more cinematic and classic Bond in the second half of the film. The synthesized parts in the first half I've grown to like - kind of a "so bad it's good" kind of feel, you know?
  • AnonAnon
    Posts: 246
    I like Octopussy very much but I do cringe at "I collect... memories" and the way the source short story is crow-barred into a couple of clunky lines.

    Is it the last time we have Bond obeying the old-school rapey rule 'when a woman says no, she really means yes'?

    And whoever said returning to the (very obviously a studio) India location was anticlimactic was spot on. Did they run out budget for a new set?

    But other than that...
  • jolearonjolearon
    Posts: 645
    This is one of my favorite Bond movies, perhaps top 3.

    As I'm watching I wondered if anyone has translated the Indian remarks when Bond throws a guy onto the board with nails embedded on it. I'm sure this was labeled out there, I just couldn't find it anywhere.

    Little help?
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,169
    jolearon wrote:
    As I'm watching I wondered if anyone has translated the Indian remarks when Bond throws a guy onto the board with nails embedded on it. I'm sure this was labeled out there, I just couldn't find it anywhere.

    Little help?

    "Get off my bed!"

    It used to have subtitles. Maybe they've been removed, but for what reason I cannot think.

  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    edited December 2013 Posts: 1,778
    Octopussy has always been my favorite Roger Moore Bond films and my all time (high) favorite non serious Bond film.

    Moore seems his most comfortable in the role, the film has the right blend of seriousness and humor, IMO Moore's best leading lady, a good villainous turn by the ever charming Louis Jordan, some of Moore's best action scenes, Q getting alot more screen time than usual, and a pretty strong plot. In my mind Octopussy will always be one of the most underrated Bond films along with LTK.
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