Never Say Never Again..."Yes, But My Martini's Still Dry"

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  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    We didn't need 2 Thunderballs, honestly. M was good, and a black Felix Leiter was okay (it's being done far better, now), but 2 Thunderballs were unnecessary.

    Could have been THREE Thunderballs if McClory had got his way. Just be thankful.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    A TV remake of Thunderball, with Barbara Carrera as a panto villain. Like CR67 it's a
    Curiousity
  • Posts: 11,189
    A TV remake of Thunderball, with Barbara Carrera as a panto villain. Like CR67 it's a
    Curiousity

    Well summed up.
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    @Birdleson
    Allow me to reply to you to your question in this thread.
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Curious @Andi1996Ruegg , what did you think of NSNA?

    I saw it after TB and between OP and FYEO and it was great fun watching it and I like it.
    11 minutes. That's how long it took me to realize it is a remake of Thunderball.

    If there is anything that I would hold against NSNA then it's the different Moneypenny and Q. The rest of the cast is superb though! Even if it's not the M of the past movies, he's still great. Felix and Blofeld are great as well and these characters are played by different actors in most of the films anyway. I really liked this version of Felix, M and Largo.
    Maybe NSNA's Largo is even better than TB's. The German actor really comes across as dangerously insane in the role and his Largo is very entertaining.

    I am currently watching all the documentaries of the films on iTunes Extras. The ones narrated by Patrick Macnee are real eyeopeners!! I'm at OHMSS currently.

    I understand NSNA doesn't officially count as a Bond film. For me that's a non-issue really.
    It's Connery, it has all the characters from the Bond universe and it sure looks like a Bond film to me. And both films were produced by the same guy Kevin McClory. I understand it was not an EoN film though.

    The comparison between NSNA and TB is unavoidable. Still, I like both even if I can see that a mid-80s Bond film can never be anywhere near the quality overall of a mid-60s Bond film or a 60s Bond film in general. That's not saying those from the 80s are not good! They are just different I guess.

    There is a middle section of NSNA when Bond attends Maximilian's grand ball and party. That's probably my favorite part of the movie.

    It's interesting to see Sean 12 years after DAF, looking great and having so much fun with the role. I would never change the past as I am in love with Roger Moore, but I wonder if Connery would have played Bond until the late 80s had he never decided to leave the series.

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,108
    @Birdleson
    Allow me to reply to you to your question in this thread.
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Curious @Andi1996Ruegg , what did you think of NSNA?

    I saw it after TB and between OP and FYEO and it was great fun watching it and I like it.
    11 minutes. That's how long it took me to realize it is a remake of Thunderball.

    If there is anything that I would hold against NSNA then it's the different Moneypenny and Q. The rest of the cast is superb though! Even if it's not the M of the past movies, he's still great. Felix and Blofeld are great as well and these characters are played by different actors in most of the films anyway. I really liked this version of Felix, M and Largo.
    Maybe NSNA's Largo is even better than TB's. The German actor really comes across as dangerously insane in the role and his Largo is very entertaining.

    I am currently watching all the documentaries of the films on iTunes Extras. The ones narrated by Patrick Macnee are real eyeopeners!! I'm at OHMSS currently.

    I understand NSNA doesn't officially count as a Bond film. For me that's a non-issue really.
    It's Connery, it has all the characters from the Bond universe and it sure looks like a Bond film to me. And both films were produced by the same guy Kevin McClory. I understand it was not an EoN film though.

    The comparison between NSNA and TB is unavoidable. Still, I like both even if I can see that a mid-80s Bond film can never be anywhere near the quality overall of a mid-60s Bond film or a 60s Bond film in general. That's not saying those from the 80s are not good! They are just different I guess.

    There is a middle section of NSNA when Bond attends Maximilian's grand ball and party. That's probably my favorite part of the movie.

    It's interesting to see Sean 12 years after DAF, looking great and having so much fun with the role. I would never change the past as I am in love with Roger Moore, but I wonder if Connery would have played Bond until the late 80s had he never decided to leave the series.

    Valid points, NSNA has definitely a few moments where it shines. The best aspect of the whole thing I think is its excellent cast. Sean Connery, Edward Fox, Barbara Carrera and Bernie Casey are all great in their roles.

    Carrera and Casey can rival with the official series in their respective categories (femme fatale/Felix Leiter). But the real star of the show is obviously Klaus Maria Brandauer (who is Austrian, not German ;) ). Menacing, charming and confident all at the same time.

    If you would like to see more of him I would recommend the great István Szabó film Mephisto, in which he plays the main role.
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    He was funny @Birdleson and I did like him. It's just that for me personally no one can replace Desmond. I've fallen in love with him after the first couple of films I've seen, same for Lois Maxwell.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I didn't like McCowen at first but as with most things in NSNA, upon a recent viewing I really liked him. As I've said elsewhere, I think it's because we've lost all of the old crew and perhaps I'm not as impressed with their successors at EON (on and off screen).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    @Birdleson
    Allow me to reply to you to your question in this thread.
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Curious @Andi1996Ruegg , what did you think of NSNA?

    I saw it after TB and between OP and FYEO and it was great fun watching it and I like it.
    11 minutes. That's how long it took me to realize it is a remake of Thunderball.

    If there is anything that I would hold against NSNA then it's the different Moneypenny and Q. The rest of the cast is superb though! Even if it's not the M of the past movies, he's still great. Felix and Blofeld are great as well and these characters are played by different actors in most of the films anyway. I really liked this version of Felix, M and Largo.
    Maybe NSNA's Largo is even better than TB's. The German actor really comes across as dangerously insane in the role and his Largo is very entertaining.

    I am currently watching all the documentaries of the films on iTunes Extras. The ones narrated by Patrick Macnee are real eyeopeners!! I'm at OHMSS currently.

    I understand NSNA doesn't officially count as a Bond film. For me that's a non-issue really.
    It's Connery, it has all the characters from the Bond universe and it sure looks like a Bond film to me. And both films were produced by the same guy Kevin McClory. I understand it was not an EoN film though.

    The comparison between NSNA and TB is unavoidable. Still, I like both even if I can see that a mid-80s Bond film can never be anywhere near the quality overall of a mid-60s Bond film or a 60s Bond film in general. That's not saying those from the 80s are not good! They are just different I guess.

    There is a middle section of NSNA when Bond attends Maximilian's grand ball and party. That's probably my favorite part of the movie.

    It's interesting to see Sean 12 years after DAF, looking great and having so much fun with the role. I would never change the past as I am in love with Roger Moore, but I wonder if Connery would have played Bond until the late 80s had he never decided to leave the series.



    If you would like to see more of him I would recommend the great István Szabó film Mephisto, in which he plays the main role.

    Or The Lighthouse.
  • Posts: 16,149
    I liked Alec McCowen's version of Q, even though he's not Major Boothroyd . Ben Whishaw isn't supposed to be Boothroyd either.....or is he?
    Still Alec had good chemistry with Sean, IMO and shines in his scene.
    Pamela Salem as Moneypenny isn't given much to work with, so I find it hard to compare her fairly. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with her, just her scenes don't giver her much to do.
    Edward Fox, though I'd say is an acquired taste. I can see why many fans outright dislike him. I actually enjoy his M for what it is.
    The concept of Bond encountering a new M who finds the usefulness of double -O- section questionable as well as Bond himself seems to be Eon's go to these days. I'd say the dynamic of this concept was improved in GE. I do find SF's version of this scenario no better or worse than NSNA.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    The film suffers the most because of it's music and second it looks cheap in some areas. But for Connery himself for me his performance in NSNA ranks above DAF and YOLT.
  • Posts: 7,407
    My view of NSNA has changed since I first saw it in the cinema in 1983. Coming after the Summer of OP which I loved (still do) I found McClorys film quite a disappointment.
    But over the years it's grown on me and it's recent appearance on blu ray, it looks superb.
    Connery looks and acts great, Carrera I've always loved (been trying to get the movie 'I, the Jury' on dvd recently where she appears with Armand Assante as Mike Hammer)
    Alex Mckeowns Q, no Desmond Llewelyn...but better than Cleese and Wishaw!
    Edward Fox a hoot ("Oh do come along Bond!") And the opening and motorcycle chase are good fun. Downside is the terrible score and theme and the videogame scene still looks embarrassing! And Kim Basinger was a poor Bond girl..Brandeur was only sporadically good as villain!
  • Posts: 628
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    But for Connery himself for me his performance in NSNA ranks above DAF and YOLT.

    I honestly think NSNA has Connery's most relaxed and charming performance as Bond. It's a lighter interpretation of the character (somewhat similar to Moore's, and possibly even influenced by it), but one that I find appealing.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    But for Connery himself for me his performance in NSNA ranks above DAF and YOLT.

    I honestly think NSNA has Connery's most relaxed and charming performance as Bond. It's a lighter interpretation of the character (somewhat similar to Moore's, and possibly even influenced by it), but one that I find appealing.

    I prefer his DAF performance but I would but it almost parallel to YOLT..almost.

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I did a rescore of the bike chase using music from Agent Under Fire. Enjoy. :-bd
  • Posts: 16,149
    Murdock wrote: »
    I did a rescore of the bike chase using music from Agent Under Fire. Enjoy. :-bd

    Nice job!
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    But for Connery himself for me his performance in NSNA ranks above DAF and YOLT.

    I honestly think NSNA has Connery's most relaxed and charming performance as Bond. It's a lighter interpretation of the character (somewhat similar to Moore's, and possibly even influenced by it), but one that I find appealing.

    One of the things I like about Connery's performance here is that he's essentially a 007 who has mellowed a bit with age. Probably due to the fact he's been teaching rather than doing. Once back in the field, though he is in his element, thriving on danger. It's one of my favorite performances from a Bond actor.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 628
    Could have been THREE Thunderballs if McClory had got his way. Just be thankful.

    Why? The third version was supposed to star Dalton, and I would have loved seeing him as Bond one more time.

    Furthermore, the recycled premise wouldn't have mattered to me, considering that most of the Bond films are variations on the same story anyway!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    @Murdock, that was great.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,575
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I'v always thought of it as a lower/mid-range Bond film. Enjoyable.

    Agreed
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 623
    What a decade the eighties were for Bond. Six movies with three different actors. It's 2018 now, and in this decade we've had two movies and a vague promise of a third.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    edited May 2018 Posts: 9,019
    At the risk of having said it before: I remember that critics, at least in Germany (but unless I'm not remembering that correctly, e.g. TIME magazine as well), at the time were, in the majority, of the opinion that NSNA was the better Bond film than its immediate competitor, meaning OP. I still share that opinion.

    At the same time, everyone was aware and pointed out that NSNA was a spoof. Not just like most of the Moore films might as well have been spoofing the franchise but never gave an indication of doing so, but it deliberately made fun of the fact that the Bond of the EoN series was now a mid-pentagenarian, if that's the word, while still pretending to be up to it and being able to attract (and/or "make love to") much younger women.

    So much of the attraction of NSNA was ridiculing what the official series had become. OP, of all the fairy-tale EoN productions, was presented and perceived to be a "serious" Bond film, while NSNA made sure everyone saw how ridiculous that notion was.

    It is with that mindset that I saw NSNA at least three times before ever watching THUNDERBALL. This is why I was never in a position to consider NSNA the kind of blasphemy that EoN purists may feel it was. I found it enjoyable, and when I finally saw TB for the first time, there were ups and downs, and I was stricken by its cinematography, but no, I have never found TB more enjoyable than NSNA. In fact, TB is still the only early Bond movie I consider borderline boring (the endless underwater scenes) or amateurish in places (the sped-up final sequence just sucks), so that evens it out pretty much. Also, I find Brandauer a MUCH better Largo than Celi, Carrera equal to Palucci, Basinger not quite as enticing but a better actress than Bianchi Auger of course, and so on.

    But whatever the preference regarding TB vs NSNA, the latter is a solid, fun Bond movie that I definitely prefer over at least a quarter of the official movies, that is TMWTGG, OP, AVTAK, DAF, TWINE and DAD. And I'm sure yet another McClory remake would have been better than those as well.
  • Posts: 2,914
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Why? The third version was supposed to star Dalton, and I would have loved seeing him as Bond one more time.

    Dalton was a good friend of the Broccoli family. Would he have really starred in a Bond film produced by one of its enemies? McClory was little more than a bag of blarney, and I wouldn't be surprised if he made up Dalton's supposed involvement.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Thanks! @Thunderfinger :-bd
  • Posts: 4,044
    Revelator wrote: »
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Why? The third version was supposed to star Dalton, and I would have loved seeing him as Bond one more time.

    Dalton was a good friend of the Broccoli family. Would he have really starred in a Bond film produced by one of its enemies? McClory was little more than a bag of blarney, and I wouldn't be surprised if he made up Dalton's supposed involvement.

    He'd have just roped in Lazenby.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Murdock wrote: »
    Thanks! @Thunderfinger :-bd

    Yeah, inspired, old chap.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    @Murdock That was fricking fantastic!
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I watched it last year. Solid effort but missing that spark - some Bond movies especially in the 80s are B movies that look, feel and sound like A movies but NSNA just feels like a B movie
  • Posts: 1,916
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    At the risk of having said it before: I remember that critics, at least in Germany (but unless I'm not remembering that correctly, e.g. TIME magazine as well), at the time were, in the majority, of the opinion that NSNA was the better Bond film than its immediate competitor, meaning OP. I still share that opinion.
    You would be correct. A number of critics liked OP, but NSNA had the Connery factor, at least here in the U.S. Add in a number of those critics were from the era when Connery was Bond originally and that gave them an added incentive to like the film just on that point.

    I still have scrapbook reviews of NSNA, now in storage, and it was all about Connery and some recognition for Carrera and Brandauer from what I recall. Not much about the film as a whole. Do a YouTube search for a Siskel and Ebert Bond special from '83 and it's a good general reflection of the critical mindset of the time where Connery rules and everything else is just there. Not that Connery didn't earn his acclaim, but Moore was really dismissed and Siskel at one point called Lazenby the answer to a trivia question.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    @BMW_with_missiles, thank you. :)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Improvement (I actually like the jazz score used in the scene, but it clashes with the action and with Bond in general), but that tinny percussion is too distracting for my tastes. I know it's a big hassle, but I hope that you some day re-score the chase again with music ifted from Barry, oreceb Arnold.

    Thanks @Birdleson, it wasn't a hassle at all. I made that in less than 20 minutes. But I wouldn't mind doing other versions either. I find it quite fun. :D
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Murdock wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Improvement (I actually like the jazz score used in the scene, but it clashes with the action and with Bond in general), but that tinny percussion is too distracting for my tastes. I know it's a big hassle, but I hope that you some day re-score the chase again with music ifted from Barry, oreceb Arnold.

    Thanks @Birdleson, it wasn't a hassle at all. I made that in less than 20 minutes. But I wouldn't mind doing other versions either. I find it quite fun. :D

    Twice as long as it took Sam Smith to write his theme song.
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