Never Say Never Again..."Yes, But My Martini's Still Dry"

00Beast

licensetoforum wrote:

It would have been great if they didn't have to remake Thunderball. Really give Connery a fresh plot, utilizing his age and making a classic Bond film.

Exactly! Thunderball is golden as is, and there's no need for a re-make.

jackdagger

I'll admit I haven't watched the whole thing. I've tried on multiple occassions. Hopefully someday I will be able to get through the entire thing so I can have a better opinion.

I just can't get past the part with the pee, and the "sex scenes". I have issues with finding Connery a sex-symbol in the first place, and it's even harder to do when he's old and out of shape... it's just NOT something I want to think of when I think of James Bond...

PrinceKamalKhan

Char35t wrote:

Think of it more as a what if film Thunderball set in the 80s rather than the 60s....

That's probably the best way to look at NSNA.

00Beast wrote:

I just didn't like how they took TB and tried to make it again, and in a way that would combat another Bond movie's ticket sales in a sense.

Agreed.

00Beast wrote:

licensetoforum wrote:

It would have been great if they didn't have to remake Thunderball. Really give Connery a fresh plot, utilizing his age and making a classic Bond film.

Exactly! Thunderball is golden as is, and there's no need for a re-make.

Agreed on both counts. At the very least, they should've changed the name of Brandauer's and Miss Basinger's characters. If TB didn't exist in reality, then I'd probably be fonder of NSNA than I am. The 1983 "non-official" Bond film is as good as most of the output from the Miccoli era. However, TB does exist and is my favorite Bond film. If I ever want to watch its story, I stick with the EON original with John Barry's music, Terence Young's direction, Tom Jones' anthem to Bond-style theme song, Connery at the top of his form in his most super-confident Bond performance, Claudine Auger as Domino, Adolfo Celi as Largo, and best of all, Luciana Paluzzi as Volpe.

HASEROT

i think some people give this movie a far more praise than it deserves - and i would love to be able to see what they see in it... because I really don't think it's good at all..... is it fun/mildly entertaining? of course... but a lot of movies are like - even some of the official Bond movies - it doesn't mean they are good in anyway shape or form...

First off, I can't get past the fact that NSNA is TB Redux - so with that firmly in mind, I am already in comparison mode, which immediately takes me out of the movie..

I thought Kershner's direction was decent/solid at times... but this film has such a bizarre pace to it, that it really builds up no momentum - it just kind putts along like a car stuck in first gear...

not to mention some elements in this film outstay their welcome... the fight with henchman in the rehab clinic was absurdly silly at times, and just seemed to drag on, and on.... and on................. annnd on....

Fatima Blush was another one who about halfway through her screen time I found annoying to watch and listen to - not to mention before killing Bond, she wants him to write a statement saying she was the best?... wow - issues girl, issues lol..... she is inferior in every aspect to role played by Luciana Paluzzi in Thunderball - EVERY aspect... and it's a shame, because I wanted to like her character, and at the start I did - but they really turned up the annoyance factor on her in her final scenes on screen...

(i gotta go somewhere, will write more when i return)

thelivingroyale

00Beast wrote:

licensetoforum wrote:

It would have been great if they didn't have to remake Thunderball. Really give Connery a fresh plot, utilizing his age and making a classic Bond film.

Exactly! Thunderball is golden as is, and there's no need for a re-make.

I rewatched thunderball not long ago and yeah, maybe there was no need for a remake. But I think the remake turned out good, and was just as good as the original

002

i thought NSNA was a good way to end for Connery plus look at the opening scene, Rowan Aktisons first role ever, when bond defeats s villian by sparying his urine on him, the first affrican american version of Felix Leiter, the line: to be perfectly honest there was this one girl in Philadephia line was perhaps the best....i felt that the film was a love letter to connery (lets face it he looks more excited here than when he did DAF)

its just a shame that they didnt get to make Warhead 2000 with Dalton..

00Beast

Never Say Never Again is not that terrible actually. Then again, it's not spectacular or dazzling, but I'd still watch it, even though it's not an "official" Bond movie. What kills it for me is that it's a Thunderball re-make. If TB hadn't been made, and NSNA came along with its story being original, I'd love it. As for Connery's age, he looks better in 1983 than he does in 1971, he's more fit and has the Bond look again. If I can handle Moore in AVTAK and still love that movie, I can handle Connery in NSNA.

Baltimore_007

I usually only watch it for Barbara Carrera

Ok it's not official Bond, same as with Casino Royale 67 and doesn't pretend to be

I haven't seen this in ages, but highlights for me are the fight at the health farm, the video game with Max Largo and well I'm struggling now, the rescue of Domino at the end. It simply can't compare to the original Thunderball epic and I simply don't get the same enjoyment from it, it has a good opening though

It took nearly as much as Octopussy that year at the box offices oddly enough

Jason19

I've heard that NSNA took almost as much as Octopussy at the box office too. I must be the only person on the sight who likes Michel Legrands score. I bought the Soundtrack album. The director is at fault here - so many scenes are badly lit and photographed like a poor definition TV movie. Sean Connery appears keen in some scenes and tired in others. But it is still a watchable Bond, and better than the kids movie script of Octopussy.

identigraph

We all know the major flaw of NSNA is the rug, it is absoulutley shocking, I hold it fully responsible for the failings of NSNA and I also blame Connery for wearing it!

dchantry

I just rewatched NSNA again after many years and my opinion hasn't changed. IF you took out the complete score and changed it for something more traditional then it would probably go up 10 fold in my estimation. Its very slow in places but so is TB and the saving grace there is Barry's immense score.

Now off subject:
As for the whole Serra being more traditional Bond music, absolute tosh. As already mentioned, Bond films are all about big, brass, action themes, instantly recognisable and rememberable themes, none of which appear in GE and the reason that the GE score fits the film perfectly is because that is the familiarity for which your used to watching the film and have nothing to compare against.

I have no favourite composers
I like Barry (obviously, who doesn't) but I'm not limited to that.
I like some of Arnolds work (Surrender/Vespa), some not so (overuse of synthesized
Bond Theme).
Kamen grew on me in time (after I forgot about Die Hard and Leathal Weapon)
Conti good and bad (always thinking of Rocky when listening doesnt help)
Martin very good.
Hamlish pretty poor IMO Bond77 apart.
Norman, well only the Bond theme saves DN and enough of that argument.
Serra, well there are a couple of nice themes but in general garbage.

One things certain, if Newman's score for Skyfall is nearer in tone to Arnold than to Serra then the majority of Bond fans (sorry DaltonCraig007) will be happy, but personally I hope he creates his own tone, version of the Bond Theme and creates something memorable for the right reasons.

Oh, now back on subject, I then hope he re-scores NSNA (joking).

Jason19

Some of Michel Legrand's score for NSNA is a little sparse but I like the opening song with Lanie Hall and Herb Alberts trumpet - it is humid and languid ,that kind of drowsy feeling you get in hot tropical climates.(suits the opening scenes surroundings).And I love the romantic sound of the theme in the beauty parlour in the South of France . How it evokes sunny days on the Cote D'Azur. Lovely.

Sharky

I've just watched NSNA for the first time in years, so i searched these threads to see if there was one for this film.
I never really liked it before which is the reason i never owned it but i brought it for a couple of quid and i was pleasently surprised. I still prefer all the EON ones but i did enjoy it, i liked Connery's performance and like some others have said he looked in better shape than in DAF. i liked the supporting cast too, i liked Largo,Blofeld,Domino and Fatima Blush but M, Q and Moneypenny were poor man versions IMO. And felix i thought was pretty forgettable too.
The action was done pretty well, especially the bike chase and the fight with the late great Pat Roach. there was flaws like the effects were pretty poor and the climax was a bit flat IMO but i enjoyed watching it, and am glad i brought it.
Also like others have mentioned EON may of taken some tips from this like the laser in the watch, the explosive in a pen and Fatima Blush maybe helped inspire Xenia Onatopp.

thelivingroyale

I like NSNA. It might be a TB remake but it's a much better send off than DAF for Connery. It's action packed and I like the idea of them showing an older Bond.

wildboonjive

thelivingroyale wrote:

I like NSNA. It might be a TB remake but it's a much better send off than DAF for Connery. It's action packed and I like the idea of them showing an older Bond.

I agree. There is much to like about it. It's almost a spoof in a way, but one done with very good taste and a high spirit of fun, with its tongue firmly in cheek. It doesn't take itself seriously at all and that plays in its favor. And unlike YOLT (and even DAF), it's so apparent that Connery is having blast, and that only helps it. Many great lines as well.

DarthDimi

Though it is a product of hatred, I find myself time and again enjoying this ugly little duckling.

thelivingroyale

I think it's best to forget Mcclory, the legal issues and all that stuff while watching NSNA. Makes the film much more enjoyable.

karatemanchan37

How the hell did the producers not manage to get Barbara Carrera as a Bond Girl before this?!

Baltimore_007

It's a decent watch if you don't take things too seriously. Of the unofficial Bond releases, it's streets ahead of Casino Royale 67. I usually only watch for Barbara Carrera. Connery has a bit of fun after his retirement from the official series, and there is some fun to be had, but even Octopussy is the better of the two releases for 1983. Klaus Brandauer makes for a lukewarm adversary

Lancaster007

Put this on the other day - didn't watch all of it. Pros: Kim Basinger, er…that's about it really. Cons: terrible script, which had a polish by English comedy writers Galton & Simpson who consider polishing a script by inserting jokes they used on Porridge in the 70s! Hope they weren't paid too much. RA is just bloody annoying, awful, awful score, silly training session at the beginning. Like Max Von Sydow as Blofeld, but what the hell's going on with his hair? Glad this DVD only cost a few quid!

LeQueux

This rogue 007 romp is a guilty pleasure for me, mainly to see Connery come back and own Bond one more time. Obviously there some shortcomings in the scripting department and as Lancaster007 pointed out, Galton and Simson were not the most ideal polishers for the job. In comparison to the Roger films to date, this film lacked stylish well executed action scenes. Bond complains to M that in the field it's different to being on exorcise you don't have that edge, yet note how brutal that short fight in the doorway is and compare it to the battle with Lippe which had more than a hint of Clouseau and Kato! Did the guys in the tunnel know Bond would be arriving by bike? Did they need him and the bike to be taken, why not just knock him off the bike? So who was polishing that scene, sad when you consider the openning to the chase was atmospheric with 007 moving thru that great modern house, but where the F was Felix. Notice though with Bernie Casey they predicted the Craig era Felix, only this Felix not only was actually taller than Connery but allowed to fire his gun just like in the Fleming novels! That cast was impressive particularly Barbara C as a stunningly attired psychotic hitwoman and of course Klaus who, as Bond quipped was certifiable. What it lacked in great action it made up for in dramatic scenes. For instance, note the short scene in Largo's chapel as he menaces his mistress almost taunting Bond who unlike Largo in the yaught's dance studio dosen't lose his cool. Another interesting scene is the computer game in the Casino, beautifully made table but yuk graphics and sound effects, yet both actors bring off the scene to good effect. One other important thing to remember is, like the original Thunderball it was one of the sexiest of the entire Bond canon and underlines how comfortable Connery was in his own skin when in close proximity to attractive women. You can't fake that stuff and the only other actor to come close was Brosnan. It's ironic and interesting to note that M and Q are played by well respected dramatic actors yet are allowed to be eccentric and over the top to the detriment of the film, compare this to A View to a Kill with Brown and McNee who do not have the same acting cachet but who play it straight. Also note Zorin is a psychotic similar to NSNA's Largo where as previous Roger villains were merely overly ambitious or cruel. When you link this to Jone's take on May Day stunningly attired plus the conspicuous affluence of the Chateau Chantilly I believe there is a correlation to Never's Fatima Blush and the Disco Volante, in other words Eon were influenced by Never. Last word on Barbara's Fatima, I believe she also influenced Famke's Onatopp in GoldenEye?

Jones_The_Bond

Galton and Simpson weren't involved in polishing the script of Never Say Never Again at all. You are thinking of Clement and La Frenais (Porridge, The Likely Lads).

Ray Galton and Alan Simpson are responsible for the classics Hancock's Half Hour and Steptoe And Son, and therefore should be worshipped at every available opportunity.

00Beast

I agree with @LeQuex that NSNA lacked good action scenes to polish off the build-up we had received throughout the movie. There are really only five action scenes in the entire movie- the fake training mission at the beginning, the fist fight at Shrublands, the motorcycle chase, the horse escape from the castle, and the ending battle. The first and last of those are both rather weak in my opinion, leaving with a poor start and a poor finish.

thelordflasheart

I'm really curious to see this again as I believe that I only saw it once when it first came out - and I was 14 years old. At the time I couldn't stand Moore or his films; it was like winning the lottery to hear that Connery was making another Bond film!

My memories of it are quite vague. I rewatched the "shark attack" scene online before I dove down to the Tears of Allah wreck in the Bahamas (still recognizable despite the wheelhouse being gone) but that was the only scene. From what I can remember we were really impressed with the videogame scene - at the time it was so cool that they were modernizing the world that the characters lived in so that it was recognizable to us. To see Connery as Bond playing a video game seemed the height of coolness to us in '83! I also remember that Barbara Carrerra seemed WAY sexier than the Bond girls in the "real" films. But the lack of traditional elements was a bit of a downer even though we were expecting it; also the humour and tone seemed a little off. But the greatest thing was to see Connery as Bond again. His presence, his effortless charisma, the fact that he looked better than he did in DAF (!) - all that made us so incredibly happy.

As I said, those were my thoughts as a Connery-worshipping 14 year-old Bond fan in '83. It will be interesting to view the film now!

connerybond

I liked NSNA with all its drawbacks, because it had Sean Connery!

00Beast

connerybond wrote:

I liked NSNA with all its drawbacks, because it had Sean Connery!

How might I have guessed that? Hahahaha, just playing with you, no harm done!

Baltimore_007

I wished they had taken that sequence out 'playing for control of the world', where Brandauer and Connery play a sort of video game for world countries, and receive electronic shocks, was that really needed, just didn't think it needed to be included. I always feel sorry for that guy in the closet who had to hold what he thought was a bomb and it turned out to be nothing much at all, that was a bit cruel I always felt. Carerra is better looking than Basinger I always felt in it. Has a bit of a dull climax, all a bit too - 'Indiana Jones and the last Crusade' about it. The opening is fun with 'Bond' on an exercise mission, but it's largely a release to forget, the music by (someone I can't remember) is actually good, as with Rita Coolidge that year, nothing too extravagant, but it has a lively melody and you get caught up in it, easy to listen to etc

00Beast

Baltimore_007 wrote:

I wished they had taken that sequence out 'playing for control of the world', where Brandauer and Connery play a sort of video game for world countries, and receive electronic shocks, was that really needed, just didn't think it needed to be included. I always feel sorry for that guy in the closet who had to hold what he thought was a bomb and it turned out to be nothing much at all, that was a bit cruel I always felt. Carerra is better looking than Basinger I always felt in it. Has a bit of a dull climax, all a bit too - 'Indiana Jones and the last Crusade' about it. The opening is fun with 'Bond' on an exercise mission, but it's largely a release to forget, the music by (someone I can't remember) is actually good, as with Rita Coolidge that year, nothing too extravagant, but it has a lively melody and you get caught up in it, easy to listen to etc

Yeah, I actually had the NSNA theme song stuck in my head hours after I had watched it back in May. I didn't mind though, it's not a half-bad theme when you really listen to it. I also agree with you that the whole video game "World Domination" scene was quite stupid and unnecessary. I never liked it to begin with, it felt really out of character for 007 and honestly is really cheesy now looking back on it.

Lancaster007

Jones_The_Bond wrote:

Galton and Simpson weren't involved in polishing the script of Never Say Never Again at all. You are thinking of Clement and La Frenais (Porridge, The Likely Lads).

Ray Galton and Alan Simpson are responsible for the classics Hancock's Half Hour and Steptoe And Son, and therefore should be worshipped at every available opportunity.

Sorry about that - my aged brain sometimes doesn't function as it should! Thanks for correcting me, I shall now stand in the corner of the room facing inward with my Dunce cap on!

fassbonder007

That movie got Blofeld right.