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Spectre Composer Is Thomas Newman

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  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited June 2017 Posts: 16,351
    Newman seems like a composer who feels music should be subdued and not noticed. But that doesn't work for Bond since music in Bond films are a character in itself. It accompanies Bond, tells the story of his journey through use of his own theme as well as new themes that represent the parts of the world he's in. That's what almost all the Bond composers understood and achieved that in different degrees. Barry excelled at it especially, Arnold too (like him or not). That is why music is important in film and it's a problem with modern day film music.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited June 2017 Posts: 11,425
    Totally agree. Newman is great if you want unnoticeable slightly bland background mood music. That stuff has it's place. But as you say for Bond that approach is not right.

    People talk about Newman having done amazing work on Bond and elsewhere but I just don't get it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    If only EON got someone like John Altman to beef up the action music of Spectre like they did the Tank Chase in GoldenEye that featured a grandiose full use of the Bond theme I wouldn't be complaining so much about it.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    Murdock wrote: »
    If only EON got someone like John Altman to beef up the action music of Spectre like they did the Tank Chase in GoldenEye that featured a grandiose full use of the Bond theme I wouldn't be complaining so much about it.

    Yes, we've had some dodged bullets in the past...and then there are the bullets that connected.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Murdock wrote: »
    Newman seems like a composer who feels music should be subdued and not noticed. But that doesn't work for Bond since music in Bond films are a character in itself. It accompanies Bond, tells the story of his journey through use of his own theme as well as new themes that represent the parts of the world he's in. That's what almost all the Bond composers understood and achieved that in different degrees. Barry excelled at it especially, Arnold too (like him or not). That is why music is important in film and it's a problem with modern day film music.

    This.

    It's no surprise that my favourite track of Newman's tenure by far is Chimera is bold and brash and uses the whole orchestra. That is a Bond soundtrack. Unfortunately he does it so rarely.

    The renditions of Skyfall and WOTW are also good but I'm not giving him any credit for those because they are someone else's compositions and he was clearly ordered to include them as they appear just once rather than being continually interwoven through the soundtrack like Barry or Arnold did.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Newman is basically,apart from a few elements...........................................boring.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited June 2017 Posts: 11,425
    Yep. Dull, dull, dull. Listen to him speak and it comes as no surprise. He comes across as a really drippy school music teacher or leader of the local Anglican church choir.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Mallory wrote: »
    @Getafix I agree that QoS is his best Bond score but it is also one of the least 'Bondian' scores ever. I am struggling to recite any Bond theme in the score, save for the end gun barrel. Maybe a little in the car chase at the beginning but otherwise its completely absent.

    People who slag of Newman for a 'supposed lack of Bond theme' need to go and listen to the QoS soundtrack again.

    And Skyfall OST > QoS OST

    There's plenty of bond theme in QoS. Even the no good about goodbye theme sounds derived from the Bond theme, like the other theme songs he was involved with
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I don't sense Newman gave a sh*t about getting the Bond gig. Just another paycheck. He's a dreary composer anyway so no wonder the scores for both films are adrenalin and excitment sapping exercises.

    This too. Although I feel this mostly applies to Spectre. At least with Skyfall there was a certain freshness in his approaching a new genre, a new franchise. Not all of Skyfall works for me, but tracks like "New Digs," "Brave New World," "Shanghai Drive," "Jellyfish," "Modigliani," "The Chimera" reveal a playfulness and a promising originality that formed a unique take on Bond much as, say, Kamen or Serra had done before him. Some of the droning action and Newmanesque noodling in Skyfall didn't enthrall me so much, but there were at least those other standout tracks.

    With Spectre, it's as if he lifted his most banal droning and noodling from Skyfall, added some ghostly ambient cues, and wrote one gorgeous new theme for Madeleine, then called it a day.
    I agree with you, but would add "The Moors" and "Severine" to the tracks that impressed me in SF. There was indeed, as you noted, an originality there which was refreshing to my ears after 11 years of Arnold.

    I'm not sure what happened with SP, but then again in my view the entire film suffers from a predictability and unoriginality, and Newman's effort is similarly trite.

    Having said that, I did like "Los Muertos Vivos Estan" very much. Why it starts with the Hinx theme on the album version I'm not sure though.
  • noSolaceleftnoSolaceleft
    Posts: 1,162
    Murdock wrote: »
    Newman seems like a composer who feels music should be subdued and not noticed.

    That's exactly how it is. I happen to know one of Germany's foremost movie composers and he's a big fan of Newman and totally subscribes to this school of thought. His own works mirrors completely this style as well. To me it's another way of touting and spelling "boring" but to each his own.
  • MalloryMallory
    edited June 2017 Posts: 2,160
    Walecs wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Nothing to worry about here folks.

    Newman was nominated for an Oscar for Skyfall. He has been given the privelege of returning to one of the most storied franchises (music wise) of all time. He is only the 3rd composer, after Barry and Arnold, to be asked back.

    He will 'up' his game. I have no doubt he has the talent. If he paid the franchise lip service in SF, he won't do it this time.

    The score will be epic. He will use the title theme in it too. I'm certain of it. SF was such a success that everyone has to step it up a notch, especially the composer, given the importance of music to the movie.

    Ho ho ho.

    Always fun reading back over old predictions!
    Indeed. I blew it on this one. I'll be the first to admit it. I was overly positive.

    You're not tge only one. I read tonnes of excuses as to why SF's musical score was lacklustre and with news of SP having a bigger budget and Newman having a full orchestra to work with etc I for one felt positive we were going to get Newman knocking out of the park. I was wrong.


    Lee Smith (Editor) on the music...

    In the case of “Spectre” I got a music editor on very early on and we took apart the existing score from “Skyfall” and strung that out and rebuilt cues to suit the new film, just to give us the temp score. We needed it to be in Bond’s world. I saw no reason to pull temp score from other films. We did use other existing score in moments where we clearly couldn’t build it from Skyfall, but it was great because we were doing a really polished version of a score underneath the editor’s cut and it worked and whenever we played it for producers or Sam I think there was only once or twice where he said we missed the point with the music, but for 90% of the time we were on the money and I think when we started working with Thomas Newman and he was re-writing it, he knew mode and placement or the temp score was pushing all the right emotional buttons. I know that would have been hard for him, because it’s already his score and I know how tough that is, but I kept saying to him, “But it’s so good!” I can’t put other composers scores on this movie! (laughs) He was great and incredibly collaborative.

    Someone please explain what this means because I've got no clue.
    Mallory wrote: »
    @Getafix I agree that QoS is his best Bond score but it is also one of the least 'Bondian' scores ever. I am struggling to recite any Bond theme in the score, save for the end gun barrel. Maybe a little in the car chase at the beginning but otherwise its completely absent.

    People who slag of Newman for a 'supposed lack of Bond theme' need to go and listen to the QoS soundtrack again.

    And Skyfall OST > QoS OST

    We're not going through this bloody argument again, are we? Just because you lack a good music ear (and you do, otherwise you'd hear plenty of Bond theme in QoS score), it doesn't mean Arnold score suck.

    Bond theme is featured in Field Trips, Oil Fields, Time to get Out, Perla de las dunas, Bond in Haiti, Bolivian taxi drive, Pursuit at Port Au Prince, Inside Man and The dead don't care about vengeance.

    That's 9 instances.

    I didn't say Arnold's score suck. Au contraire, I said the opposite.

    And my ears are fine thank you very much ;)

    And for those who say there's no Bond theme in Skyfall, see -

    Grand Bazaar Istanbul, The Bloody Shot, New Digs, Brave New World, Day Wasted, Enquiry, Breadcrumbs, She's Mine and Deep Water.
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,917
    TripAces wrote: »
    Despite some of the repeat tracks, Newman still wrote 25 original tracks for SP. How was that lazy??? I just don't understand the criticism at all.
    When I listen to those soundtracks over and over and still can't hum or barely recall any of the music then it invites criticism. When I watch the films on Blu-ray and the music doesn't enhance the scene it invites criticism.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Mallory wrote: »
    And for those who say there's no Bond theme in Skyfall, see -

    Grand Bazaar Istanbul, The Bloody Shot, New Digs, Brave New World, Day Wasted, Enquiry, Breadcrumbs, She's Mine and Deep Water.
    Precisely. The Bond theme is as interwoven into the SF soundtrack as it is the QoS one. The use in both instances is perfectly fine to me. Teased rather than full blast. Newman massaged it well in the PTS of SP though. Standout track in the film.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    noSolaceleft wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Newman seems like a composer who feels music should be subdued and not noticed.

    That's exactly how it is. I happen to know one of Germany's foremost movie composers and he's a big fan of Newman and totally subscribes to this school of thought. His own works mirrors completely this style as well. To me it's another way of touting and spelling "boring" but to each his own.

    I think it's boring too. Music shouldn't be sonic wallpaper, It should be in the forefront to paint a musical picture of what's going on. I hate that school of thought.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited June 2017 Posts: 11,425
    There's a time and place for every approach but Bond is not the right home for Newman. given how lacklustre his SF score was i was surprised he agreed to do another. I'd have had more respect if he'd stood aside.

    His American Beauty score is the only one of his where I feel he enhances what's on the screen.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,169
    I rather "like" what he did with his SP score. It's a huge step up from SF IMO. But, of course, both scores are smelly farts compared to Barry's excellent, priceless perfumes.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I rather "like" what he did with his SP score. It's a huge step up from SF IMO. But, of course, both scores are smelly farts compared to Barry's excellent, priceless perfumes.

    Funny you say this. Whereas I actively disliked the SF score I also for some reason felt that SP was actually an improvement. Not sure why, given that it seems to have just been a rehash of SF, but there you go.

    As with SF, the brief reference to the title song is a stand out moment.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited June 2017 Posts: 24,169
    @Getafix

    Bond making love to the girl on the train while heavy orchestration plays, then soft piano as the sun rises in the morning, ... I don't know; I've always had a thing for that somehow.

    Edit: also, the Rome car chase? Rather love the music there.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    Arnold´s scores would be much better if he unashamedly stayed with one melodic theme for more instances and elaborated on it, but nevertheless I find his scores time and again fun to listen to. Newman stays with one idea throughout a track alright, but overall his Bond scores show distraction instead of coherence. The Shanghai sequence in SF for instance, up to Bond vanishing from Severine´s view, is disturbingly chopped up into little pieces solely by the music. One sequence, at least six musical cues, each one totally different from all the others. It is totally beyond me how such a score could even remotely be considered for an Oscar.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited June 2017 Posts: 16,351
    Nepotism. ;)
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    Seppu...what? ;-)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    =))
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Newman, not too dissimilar to Serra on GE, handled the romantic stuff quite well.

    Both absolutely botched the action material though. No Newman action cue will make its way on to a compilation album in 20-30 years, apart from maybe "Tennyson".

    We will probably hear "Severine", "Mother" and "Madeleine", though.

    Overall, he was okay. The lack of enthusiasm for the style of the series became more apparent over the two films, though.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Loved The Moors in SF but didn't like the rehash Westminster Bridge in SP. Strange.

    I'm not sure if it's because I knew Newman composed the track specifically for the earlier film, and not the latter. It's probably also because it goes on and on for what seems like forever in the latter film.

    The composition is more sinister & mellow in SF as well. It's more bombastic (with a few Bond theme notes thrown in) in SP.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    edited June 2017 Posts: 6,844
    bondjames wrote: »
    It's probably also because it goes on and on for what seems like forever in the latter film.

    The "Moors" theme (which I too enjoy well enough in Skyfall) carries through something like 4 different tracks during Spectre's finale. It just plays over and over and over.
    bondjames wrote: »
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I don't sense Newman gave a sh*t about getting the Bond gig. Just another paycheck. He's a dreary composer anyway so no wonder the scores for both films are adrenalin and excitment sapping exercises.

    This too. Although I feel this mostly applies to Spectre. At least with Skyfall there was a certain freshness in his approaching a new genre, a new franchise. Not all of Skyfall works for me, but tracks like "New Digs," "Brave New World," "Shanghai Drive," "Jellyfish," "Modigliani," "The Chimera" reveal a playfulness and a promising originality that formed a unique take on Bond much as, say, Kamen or Serra had done before him. Some of the droning action and Newmanesque noodling in Skyfall didn't enthrall me so much, but there were at least those other standout tracks.

    With Spectre, it's as if he lifted his most banal droning and noodling from Skyfall, added some ghostly ambient cues, and wrote one gorgeous new theme for Madeleine, then called it a day.
    I agree with you, but would add "The Moors" and "Severine" to the tracks that impressed me in SF.

    Oh yes, there is more to Skyfall that I enjoy than just those examples I listed. I also particularly like "She's Mine" with its energizing build and big Thunderballesque finale.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    Oh yes, there is more to Skyfall that I enjoy than just those examples I listed. I also particularly like "She's Mine" with its energizing build and big Thunderballesque finale.

    I had hoped we'd get more stuff like "She's Mine" in SP. That cue worked very well in that scene. Probably Newman's best action-y cue
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited June 2017 Posts: 11,425
    Amazing the mileage to be had from discussing two of the most dreary and pedestrian Bond scores ever.

    Serra's GE score might have been abysmal but at least it has personality.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    If only EON got someone like John Altman to beef up the action music of Spectre like they did the Tank Chase in GoldenEye that featured a grandiose full use of the Bond theme I wouldn't be complaining so much about it.

    Yes, we've had some dodged bullets in the past...and then there are the bullets that connected.

    The criminal Serra tried his best to damage that film and the franchise.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    If only EON got someone like John Altman to beef up the action music of Spectre like they did the Tank Chase in GoldenEye that featured a grandiose full use of the Bond theme I wouldn't be complaining so much about it.

    Yes, we've had some dodged bullets in the past...and then there are the bullets that connected.

    The criminal Serra tried his best to damage that film and the franchise.

    "Criminal" is a bit much considering the good tracks he did contribute, but his original tank chase music is indeed one of those dodged bullets. A big one. More like a mortar shell.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Bar the pre title sequence and the the romanic themes I dislike Serra's score immensely. The experience of love and the opening car chase score show off his criminal status perfectly. IMO he should be arrested for crimes against the franchise;).
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