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I think that's more of a reason for Batman to do better than Bond rather than the other way around, isn't it?
Yes definitely. I can also add that Batman had no competition for 5 weeks while Bond had to face Venom 2, Dune etc etc as a result of all the COVID related previous delays.
Nevertheless, it would’ve made at least 50m in china. Enough to send it over NTTD. Not to mention the lack of Russia as a market. And a much smaller theatrical window.
Been watching the 60’s show and it is such a fun time. It’s exactly what Moore was to Bond, and I love how neither talked down on their career defining roles after moving on. Going forward I’d definitely like to see new villains rather than the same rehashed Joker. I’d love to see a new take on the Mad Hatter. I’m curious about what they do with Penguin in the new series, such a different take than Danny DeVito.
My favorite is Batman Returns.
My least would probably be Batman Forever.
I thought the new one was good. Not great, not bad, just good. May have just been a bit too tired to watch it when I did. I plan on rewatching it again soon. That said, I think Affleck was like Brosnan and got the crap end of the stick. I like him a lot but the script for BVS left a lot to be desired. ZSJL was really good, a shame it really won’t get followed up on.
I am not sure I agree with the Moore analogy. Moore's Bond did not bring the camp that Adam West's Batman brought. M never spoke to Q the way Gordon spoke to O'Hara; Bond’s enemies never went quite as big as Batman's archnemeses. Moore's Bonds, even in the sillier cases, tried to tell bonafide spy stories rather than comedic nonsense. In my opinion, Batman '66 is not "exactly what Moore was to Bond"; not in the slightest, in fact.
And as I edited above, another common ground between the two that I respect is that they both spoke fondly of their time in their respective roles.
NTTD was put on PVOD after only 30 days since its US release tho. NTTD suffered from COVID outbreaks in China as well. China market was 18/20% off at that time.
I also get the sense The Batman is a much bigger hit among Batman fans than NTTD is among Bond fans, or is at the very least less controversial within its fandom. A big part of this might be the fact that The Batman self-consciously evokes the source material/certain Batman graphic novels and harkens back to the character's roots as a detective figure. No Time To Die self consciously departs and subverts certain elements of Bond.
Both did near the same amount at the box office. Ok, it's not Spiderman or even Skyfall amounts, but they did very well.
I mean, if anything I'd argue the Bond series could learn something from The Batman's approach in a more general way going forward.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there. NTTD is arguably the most divisive Bond film out there while Batman buys into the source material more and offers a little something for all fans; I'm not saying NTTD doesn't do that, of course, but you aren't going to please everyone when you kill off Bond or give him a child, and die hard fans who despise that won't show up another 3-5 times to pay money to see it.
Yes, and who is going to see these films those 3-5 more times can make the difference.
Now, arguably there are common threads between The Batman and NTTD that led to them doing under a Billion. Both films are very long, perhaps overly so. Fans of either franchise are perhaps willing to sit through films of these lengths but not necessarily the average viewer. This is often the case except in rare circumstances such as Avengers Endgame (although that had a lead in of three previous films, a cliffhanger and a whole superhero universe). Usually with films of this sort this run time can go hand in hand with pacing issues, which both films have some problems with in my opinion. Even films around 140-150 minutes are preferable to 180 minutes for many people.
Both films also have darker and heavier tones than what we're used to seeing in these franchises. It's not a bad thing necessarily from a story point of view, but I've said before that in the era of Covid and all the daily issues with the world, perhaps some viewers were a bit disappointed when they went to see a Bond film and he was blown up at the very end. Instead of feeling hyped, they instead shuffled out of the theatre to the sombre tune of We Have All The Time In The World... it's a bit of a downer and wouldn't make me want to see it again if I wasn't a Bond fan.
I'm sure if either film had come out earlier they'd have been slightly more successful. This isn't just due to Covid but more the overall zeitgeist. Sometimes people just want escapism, something less heavy, and some films just don't gel with audiences at specific times. Not saying the next Batman should depart from Reeve's vision, or that Bond 26 should be camp and DAD-esque. Both films, regardless of which one I prefer, did extraordinarily well considering this context and are critically successful. Both franchises are doing something right, again regardless of whatever problems I may have with them.
Correct analysis but let’s not forget that NTTD suffered more than any other big film because both of COVID and the very long delay, from a box-office perspective. Within the current landscape it would’ve probably made $900M. Also the fact that they had two full trailers (December 19, August 20) so early compared to the final release date was just awful and especially in the US it killed the hype.
Not to mention the fact that they had to try and keep Billie's song "fresh" for so long.
I still don't remember how that song goes and I've listened to it at least 10 times on its own as well as sat through it during all my viewings of NTTD.
At least Sam Smith's oddly high pitched vocals kinda implanted itself into my brain like some sort of parasite. I just get nothing from Eilish... not even annoyance... it's like noise... not traffic or a drill, but more like that odd hum you get in quiet rooms. Most of the time you don't even notice it's there...
And Skyfall is basically a "cover" of the Bond Theme. ;) Oh what the heck, I like them all.
Oops, we're in the Batman thread somehow.
its ok I was wondering when the conversation would go to what kind of wine pairs with what kind of fish
I used to think that the Sioux song from Batman Returns could have made a good Bond song in the '90s.
Great tune.
Yeah, Face To Face. I've always thought Siouxsie And The Banshees had the Bond DNA in them.
I agree with you all.
Yes indeed, I always thought that too. I still enjoy that one.
Yes, it's another case of the air slowly leaking out a movie. The closer the mystery gets to being solved the less interesting it gets. It doesn't help that the movie has three endings either. I get the sense that that the last act of the script needed another draft or two. There are lots of good things in the film and overall it works, but it wouldn't have needed to be three hours if the last act had been as tightly wound as the first two.
Great sets get replaced for noticable green screen and there was a scene with Catwoman late on that dropped in quality. I don't know if there were reshoots, the big set piece finale felt like it was shoehorned in for the sake of an action scene and it was not very good relative to the rest of the film.
You could cut 30+ minutes from the film and it would be considerably better.