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I had to do it. 🤓
I agree with this list. The sequel needs more comic book characters.
Well said ! Let the medium match the message. This could be a superb way of giving the audience a glimpse of the world through the Joker's eyes. Audiences have looked AT the Joker many times already...
That said, I'm not interested in the movie.
Part of why I struggle a bit with BR is that Burton attacks consumerism while delivering a 'product' within the big Hollywood system which solely revolves around making money.
Isn't that part of what makes it so good? It does both almost seamlessly without sacrificing entertainment value. I love it dearly. I know plenty put the first film on a higher pedestal but for me, they're almost inseparable.
Yes, not much Burton can do if he wants to explore those themes. What was he going to do, make a movie purposely inaccessible to prove a point? Hell, arguably Batman Returns was rather alienating and weird to some viewers at the time...
I'm actually a big fan of it. Batman '89 is well made, great set design, cinematography and performance from Keaton, but it's just not as good a film for me. The Joker hijacks the film after a point, Batman kind of decides he's going to kill Joker and instead of realising that this isn't the right thing to do and, y'know, changing as a character, he simply kills him at the end. Batman Returns feels like it was more thought out from a script point of view, as silly as it can be at times.
https://www.insidehook.com/article/movies/batman-returns-anniversary
The overt sexuality in Returns is terrific! This is going to be major blasphemy, but also, not only do I not not like that Keaton's Batman kills, but I LOVE it! Especially when he burns the one devil goon with the Batmobile. It works for the universe Burton created, and shows how Batman is just as psychotic and scary as his villains here. Returns is a gloriously stylish and dark movie, and I forgot just how much I loved it until tonight. Both of Tim Burton's offerings are still outstanding in my eyes.
Only recently bought both on bluray, and still found the first one a bore, but 'Batman Returns' is great entertainment!
1. The Dark Knight (2008) - Unashamed to call this my favorite movie ever made still. As a Batman film, a Joker film, a crime film, a drama film, a tragedy film, a comic book film, you name it - it's perfect or near it in every respect. Functions perfectly as a middle chapter in an excellent trilogy or just a standalone picture. I love everything about it, but Heath Ledger's Joker is truly the best thing that ever happened to this franchise.
2. The Batman (2022) - Masterpiece. Watching it a second time, I got the reassurance that there was no initial hype clouding my judgment. Robert Pattinson could be my favorite live-action Batman ever, if not tied or just under Keaton. It is long, but I never grow bored of any of it. So glad they went with a Year 2 setup instead of another origin story, too.
3. Batman Begins (2005) - A more than ideal origin movie. Also, the best Bruce Wayne movie. Lovely cast, lovely story, the best depiction of Gotham of the Nolan movies (Burton's and Reeves's outdo the others though). Love this one.
4. Batman Returns (1992) - First time I can remember ranking this above Batman '89, but it's pretty much a tossup. '89's still got Nicholson Joker and a better balance to it, but I adore Returns for its all-in weirdness and a far superior love interest in Michelle Pfeiffer's exquisite Catwoman. The movie's gorgeously dark and highly entertaining. And you just can't beat Christopher Walken in it. Tim Burton unchained!
5. Batman (1989) - Still an amazing classic to me. It's been bettered, but I still think it has certain charm and elements to it that the others don't carry, like the simplicity to it. I'm a big fan of the cathedral climax. The Nolan and Reeves movies have terrific movie, but you just can't beat Elfman's work on this one and Returns.
6. The Dark Knight Rises (2012) - Unfortunately I've got to set this one below the Top 5, even though I do enjoy and respect it a lot. My initial hype when I first saw this in 2012 as a young one made me think it was the best Batman movie ever, and while that's not nearly the case now, I still think it is as perfect as a "trilogy capper" as one could ask for. As a standalone experience, however, it doesn't match any of the above. Bane's one hell of a good villain though.
7. Batman (1966) - Onto the silly ones. I very much enjoy the campy Adam West movie, which handles the tone far better than Schumacher's movies. All the classic villains and funny scenes make this one a charmer. I like it very much still.
8. Batman & Robin (1997) - I used to absolutely hate this film and agree with everyone about it being the series' nadir, but I've had a change of heart my last couple watches to where it's become a "so bad it's good" type of thing for me. Like yeah, it obviously sucks, but I can't help but just have fun with it at this point. Clooney's a godawful Batman, but actually a fine Bruce Wayne. Also, the scenes with Alfred are done really, really well, even if they do feel like they belong in a different film.
9. Batman Forever (1995) - Here it is. The one live-action standalone Batman film I dislike. I used to think it was better than B&R, but I've done a full 180 on that. Carrey's Riddler and Jones's Two-Face are awful, and the film is so tonally everywhere it hurts the brain. The jokes are terrible, the overacting is painful, and the lights everywhere ruin any chance of a serious Gotham City. It's trash, period.
I have both soundtracks of Batman Forever, The orchestral score is so over the top at times...
Batman Forever OST Batterdammerung
I watched this film several times at the cinema I loved it back then, its a bit of a guilty pleasure for me.
Did we really need to watch Gordon riding an elevator all the way up to the building, leaving the elevator and walking across an empty floor just to switch on the Bat signal? Editing used to be a tool to shorten runtime so that only relevant info is conveyed, but in today's movies it's just there to connect 3 hours' worth of overlong scenes.
Dano was chewing scenery as The Riddler, trying to one-up Ledger's Joker, without having any of Ledger's gravitas, levity, or charisma. Dano's performance was simply, "Look at me, I'm acting!"
Pattinson wasn't believable as a man driven by a hatred of crime.
The bigger issue was the lack of originality. These characters and themes have all been done before, by better directors like Burton and Nolan, and in far less time. This movie was basically Batman Begins done by less talented filmmakers with a B-grade cast.
In terms of musical enjoyment only (not considering its effectiveness as a film score), I definitely enjoy Batman Forever more than Danny Elfman's efforts. I enjoy Elfman's themes, but Goldenthal holds my attention better through the less melodic parts. His music is indeed very flamboyant at times, but it works. I specifically mentioned the horn players before because the score asks them to hit some really high, attention-grabbing notes in certain parts, like the ending of the main title, when the word FOREVER shows up on the screen.
I enjoy the film as well, and I don't even think of it as a guilty pleasure. I like the mixture of seriousness and goofiness; it feels organic to me. The movie revels in its own style, its own craziness. It doesn't take itself too seriously, but it doesn't take itself so lightly that you stop being invested in what's going on.
Some people tend to dislike certain lighthearted moments and characters in films because they can be immersion-breaking for them. I am not necessarily bothered by movies that acknowledge their artificiality and "movieness," though it also depends on the execution.
I really missed the look of Gotham in the sequels.
I enjoy the film Batman Forever for its zaniness and its flashy style too. It doesn't descend quite so far into lunacy as Batman & Robin and still tries to treat Batman and Robin as somewhat serious characters doing battle with Looney Tunes villains. Sort of like the '60s TV show actually. But heck, I enjoy B&R too in its own so-bad-it's-good way.
I've kind of come to appreciate the impressionistic approach of having a totally different look and feel to the city in each film of the trilogy, but that was still the single biggest thing that disappointed me about The Dark Knight: how Gotham no longer looked or felt like Gotham. Batman Begins is still my favorite of the three.
Goldenthal's scores certainly elevate the Joel Schumacher Batman films.
Another brilliant score (and actually a really good film in its own right too).