The Profession of the villain

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  • Posts: 15,124
    Ludovico wrote:
    Oh by amateur I meant foreign to espionage. I'd say the last true amateur was maybe Elliot Carver.

    although I loved him, he was so gleefully insane, but he looked so dumb holding a gun

    Oh not all Bond villains need to or can hold a gun. Kronsteen is a great villain, but he wouldn't be able to do anything with any kind of weapon.

    Anyway, what can be the main villain's specialty? Weapon smuggler? Explosive expert? Or simply a tactician?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Oh by amateur I meant foreign to espionage. I'd say the last true amateur was maybe Elliot Carver.

    although I loved him, he was so gleefully insane, but he looked so dumb holding a gun

    Oh not all Bond villains need to or can hold a gun. Kronsteen is a great villain, but he wouldn't be able to do anything with any kind of weapon.

    Anyway, what can be the main villain's specialty? Weapon smuggler? Explosive expert? Or simply a tactician?

    It would be beneath the likes of Kronsteen to have anything to do with guns and the like - those are for the riff-raff like 'Red' Grant!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Oh by amateur I meant foreign to espionage. I'd say the last true amateur was maybe Elliot Carver.

    although I loved him, he was so gleefully insane, but he looked so dumb holding a gun

    Oh not all Bond villains need to or can hold a gun. Kronsteen is a great villain, but he wouldn't be able to do anything with any kind of weapon.

    Anyway, what can be the main villain's specialty? Weapon smuggler? Explosive expert? Or simply a tactician?

    It would be beneath the likes of Kronsteen to have anything to do with guns and the like - those are for the riff-raff like 'Red' Grant!

    Quite. The Wizard of Ice is a purely cerebral villain - as I think the main villain should be. He should have henchman do his dirty work so he can keep his hands clean. DN would be the textbook example here - intellectually superior to Bond, aloof and would never dream of doing anything so vulgar as to attack Bond himself until there is no other option.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Oh by amateur I meant foreign to espionage. I'd say the last true amateur was maybe Elliot Carver.

    although I loved him, he was so gleefully insane, but he looked so dumb holding a gun

    Oh not all Bond villains need to or can hold a gun. Kronsteen is a great villain, but he wouldn't be able to do anything with any kind of weapon.

    Anyway, what can be the main villain's specialty? Weapon smuggler? Explosive expert? Or simply a tactician?

    It would be beneath the likes of Kronsteen to have anything to do with guns and the like - those are for the riff-raff like 'Red' Grant!

    Quite. The Wizard of Ice is a purely cerebral villain - as I think the main villain should be. He should have henchman do his dirty work so he can keep his hands clean. DN would be the textbook example here - intellectually superior to Bond, aloof and would never dream of doing anything so vulgar as to attack Bond himself until there is no other option.

    Very much agreed on that, Ice. I guess that that must be a topic close to your heart, Ice!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Greene was no amateur: he was a Quantum field commander and in the game since quite a while. He had already played a role in the fall of Aristide and was very influential in south America and the Caribbean.

    Sorry, perhaps I should have better clarified what I meant by "amateur" - Greene seems to have been an amateur when it came to fighting - I mean he stuck a fire axe through his own foot!

    I like Greene. He was crazed and often psychotically unbent, like with Camille in Haiti and in his fight with Bond in the hotel, but balanced that with the mind of a businessman, very sociopathic and greedy. And he doesn't stick an axe in his own foot purposefully, Bond counters his axe blow and sends it swinging into his foot while they're scrapping.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Greene was no amateur: he was a Quantum field commander and in the game since quite a while. He had already played a role in the fall of Aristide and was very influential in south America and the Caribbean.

    Sorry, perhaps I should have better clarified what I meant by "amateur" - Greene seems to have been an amateur when it came to fighting - I mean he stuck a fire axe through his own foot!

    I like Greene. He was crazed and often psychotically unbent, like with Camille in Haiti and in his fight with Bond in the hotel, but balanced that with the mind of a businessman, very sociopathic and greedy. And he doesn't stick an axe in his own foot purposefully, Bond counters his axe blow and sends it swinging into his foot while they're scrapping.

    For the record, I like Greene too (and QoS as a whole). It seems that I got that part wrong, although they did say somewhere that Greene was an amateur when it came to fighting, and no other Bond villain ever had his own axe stuck in his own foot.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Greene was no amateur: he was a Quantum field commander and in the game since quite a while. He had already played a role in the fall of Aristide and was very influential in south America and the Caribbean.

    Sorry, perhaps I should have better clarified what I meant by "amateur" - Greene seems to have been an amateur when it came to fighting - I mean he stuck a fire axe through his own foot!

    I like Greene. He was crazed and often psychotically unbent, like with Camille in Haiti and in his fight with Bond in the hotel, but balanced that with the mind of a businessman, very sociopathic and greedy. And he doesn't stick an axe in his own foot purposefully, Bond counters his axe blow and sends it swinging into his foot while they're scrapping.

    For the record, I like Greene too (and QoS as a whole). It seems that I got that part wrong, although they did say somewhere that Greene was an amateur when it came to fighting, and no other Bond villain ever had his own axe stuck in his own foot.

    That was one thing that was missing from QOS: a henchman that was a proper fighter. Greene was very good at what he knew, but fighting was not part of it.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Greene was no amateur: he was a Quantum field commander and in the game since quite a while. He had already played a role in the fall of Aristide and was very influential in south America and the Caribbean.

    Sorry, perhaps I should have better clarified what I meant by "amateur" - Greene seems to have been an amateur when it came to fighting - I mean he stuck a fire axe through his own foot!

    I like Greene. He was crazed and often psychotically unbent, like with Camille in Haiti and in his fight with Bond in the hotel, but balanced that with the mind of a businessman, very sociopathic and greedy. And he doesn't stick an axe in his own foot purposefully, Bond counters his axe blow and sends it swinging into his foot while they're scrapping.

    For the record, I like Greene too (and QoS as a whole). It seems that I got that part wrong, although they did say somewhere that Greene was an amateur when it came to fighting, and no other Bond villain ever had his own axe stuck in his own foot.

    That was one thing that was missing from QOS: a henchman that was a proper fighter. Greene was very good at what he knew, but fighting was not part of it.

    Come on, Elvis was...oh wait a minute.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Elvis I could have liked had he been like Vargas: lethal in his own way. Heck, as a buffoon to Greene's king, he was not even that bad. But there needed to be a henchman next to Greene capable to stand his grounds on a fight. Maybe not a Oddjob or a Grant, but someone who could give Greene a helping hand.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2013 Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote:
    Elvis I could have liked had he been like Vargas: lethal in his own way. Heck, as a buffoon to Greene's king, he was not even that bad. But there needed to be a henchman next to Greene capable to stand his grounds on a fight. Maybe not a Oddjob or a Grant, but someone who could give Greene a helping hand.

    Yes, I'm sure that you'll agree with me that the henchmen in the Craig era have been somewhat offbeat, but this is simply due to the reboot, I imagine. In fact, if you think about it, named and prominent henchmen didn't really feature very prominently in the original Fleming Bond novels - MR, DAF, FRWL, GF and TSWLM quite aside.
  • edited December 2013 Posts: 15,124
    In many Bond novels, the physical adversary was also the main villain. Blofeld in the books was a force to reckon with for example. Or Bond did not fight as much, so there was no need to put him in a fist fight against a formidable adversary.

    I think the lack of a strong henchman during the Craig has many causes: there are a lot of minor villains who may not be Grant but are nevertheless capable fighters (Obanno, Patrice, Mitchell, Slate, etc.), the climactic scenes feature him against a relatively important number of henchmen, the physicality of Craig Bond himself makes it more difficult to find a believable physical menace and also and maybe more importantly the difficulty to be creative and original with the physical henchman. Too many have been clones of Grant in the past.

    And for the record, I don't mind no big bad henchman if the villain is a capable fighter. But if he is not, it would be nice that he has a capable bodyguard, like a Luca Brazi.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited July 2017 Posts: 4,520
    M_Balje wrote: »
    ECo5Z.jpg

    Pipeline what remember me to Chili from QOS and i bett there be some hot water in those pipelines. Together with those sun things, used as Renewable energy (Dutch: Groenen stroom/Duurzame Energie). That's why it is desert of Mexico or Marocco. It need the sun. I see it as way there get money after
    stolen painting
    in Skyfall for example.
    There celling it to highest bidder.

    After years some people realy like to vergot what Dominic Greene & White saying in QOS or what happend in CR.

    world-domination.jpg
    wind-turbine-spain.jpg

    fossil-fuels-vs-renewable-energy.png

    00284a4d_medium.jpeg

    j9c4sz.jpg
    Pencil ?

    leader.jpg

    Daniel-Craig-Range-Rover-Sport-Introduction-New-York.jpg

    doodlopende%20weg.jpg

    73fc6895c64d4357683b635ae2dc95a8.jpg





    blog-50-main.jpeg
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    OHMSS69 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote:
    Reviving this thread...

    I would love to see a pirate kind of villain, maybe freely modeled after Captain Nemo. Although for Bond 24 I want a villain motivated by something else than revenge.

    I think we got the Captain Nemo with Stromberg in TSWLM. after half a century Bond has covered the whole spectrum of bad guys...maybe not.
    Mr. White is still out there...waiting...and waiting....
    I would like to see them use the villians they had originally envisioned for TSWLM...a group of young Turks from every known terrorist group of the late sixties and seventies who take over SPECTRE, kill the old guard and decide to destroy civilization and start all over.

    Points for prescience.

    I too would have liked the plot point from TSWLM script with the young Turks, perhaps Spectre taking out Quantum, but oh well. I recall Burgess had a few good, if out there, ideas.

  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    You know, the next time they make the villain a businessman, I'd appreciate if they made him a really prominent public figure, a la Elliot Carver. Just for a change.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    mattjoes wrote: »
    You know, the next time they make the villain a businessman, I'd appreciate if they made him a really prominent public figure, a la Elliot Carver. Just for a change.

    They've done that recently with both Graves and Greene, two very public men who used their squeaky (or at least charmed) images to distract from their secret and evil plots.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited July 2017 Posts: 7,021
    I realize Greene was a public figure, but at least to me, he felt low profile compared to Graves and especially Carver. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the film's examination of his public profile was basically restricted to the party scene in Bolivia, whereas Elliot Carver had newspapers, magazines and other forms of media with his face plastered on them; a big party with plenty of media attention; and he even had TV newscasters from other networks discussing his embarrassing technical problems. You're of course absolutely right about Graves being very public, but if I may say so, Die Another Day feels like it happened ages ago!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I realize Greene was a public figure, but at least to me, he felt low profile compared to Graves and especially Carver. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the film's examination of his public profile was basically restricted to the party scene in Bolivia, whereas Elliot Carver had newspapers, magazines and other forms of media with his face plastered on them; a big party with plenty of media attention; and he even had TV newscasters from other networks discussing his embarrassing technical problems. You're of course absolutely right about Graves being very public, but if I may say so, Die Another Day feels like it happened ages ago!

    Greene was low profile in comparison to those guys, but they were also very cartoonish villains. Like most of QoS, it viewed life as it really would be. Greene was a public face of an eco company, and would be like a politician you see doing the rounds at conventions and news talk radio shows spreading their message of a greener earth. He had to keep up the warm, public facade in order to get the resources that made him a Quantum member, and his hold allowed him connections to pull off big schemes like his duping of Medrano for Bolivia's water. He didn't over publicize himself of course, because that would be reckless and risk exposing his true intentions. Again, like real life.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I realize Greene was a public figure, but at least to me, he felt low profile compared to Graves and especially Carver. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the film's examination of his public profile was basically restricted to the party scene in Bolivia, whereas Elliot Carver had newspapers, magazines and other forms of media with his face plastered on them; a big party with plenty of media attention; and he even had TV newscasters from other networks discussing his embarrassing technical problems. You're of course absolutely right about Graves being very public, but if I may say so, Die Another Day feels like it happened ages ago!

    Greene was low profile in comparison to those guys, but they were also very cartoonish villains. Like most of QoS, it viewed life as it really would be. Greene was a public face of an eco company, and would be like a politician you see doing the rounds at conventions and news talk radio shows spreading their message of a greener earth. He had to keep up the warm, public facade in order to get the resources that made him a Quantum member, and his hold allowed him connections to pull off big schemes like his duping of Medrano for Bolivia's water. He didn't over publicize himself of course, because that would be reckless and risk exposing his true intentions. Again, like real life.

    I believe he modeled Greene on Sarkozy. I wouldn't mind seeing a politician as the main villain, but then again, they'd have to come up with some fictional country, which tends to throw me out of the film.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    echo wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I realize Greene was a public figure, but at least to me, he felt low profile compared to Graves and especially Carver. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the film's examination of his public profile was basically restricted to the party scene in Bolivia, whereas Elliot Carver had newspapers, magazines and other forms of media with his face plastered on them; a big party with plenty of media attention; and he even had TV newscasters from other networks discussing his embarrassing technical problems. You're of course absolutely right about Graves being very public, but if I may say so, Die Another Day feels like it happened ages ago!

    Greene was low profile in comparison to those guys, but they were also very cartoonish villains. Like most of QoS, it viewed life as it really would be. Greene was a public face of an eco company, and would be like a politician you see doing the rounds at conventions and news talk radio shows spreading their message of a greener earth. He had to keep up the warm, public facade in order to get the resources that made him a Quantum member, and his hold allowed him connections to pull off big schemes like his duping of Medrano for Bolivia's water. He didn't over publicize himself of course, because that would be reckless and risk exposing his true intentions. Again, like real life.

    I believe he modeled Greene on Sarkozy. I wouldn't mind seeing a politician as the main villain, but then again, they'd have to come up with some fictional country, which tends to throw me out of the film.

    Or just have a radical member of a political party that doesn't speak for the nation with his acts.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    That's basically Orlov.

    Would be interesting to see Bond have to decide whether to assassinate a major political figure. Shades of Pushkin in TLD.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    echo wrote: »
    That's basically Orlov.

    Would be interesting to see Bond have to decide whether to assassinate a major political figure. Shades of Pushkin in TLD.

    It's a Bond specialty. A great way to have a villain of the state, without making the state the enemy. Koskov is one of the best examples of that, and certainly Orlov too. Just as Gogol and Pushkin are great examples of showing us men from the other side who are good and upstanding and capable of detente with Bond and his crew.
  • Posts: 15,124
    echo wrote: »
    OHMSS69 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote:
    Reviving this thread...

    I would love to see a pirate kind of villain, maybe freely modeled after Captain Nemo. Although for Bond 24 I want a villain motivated by something else than revenge.

    I think we got the Captain Nemo with Stromberg in TSWLM. after half a century Bond has covered the whole spectrum of bad guys...maybe not.
    Mr. White is still out there...waiting...and waiting....
    I would like to see them use the villians they had originally envisioned for TSWLM...a group of young Turks from every known terrorist group of the late sixties and seventies who take over SPECTRE, kill the old guard and decide to destroy civilization and start all over.

    Points for prescience.

    I too would have liked the plot point from TSWLM script with the young Turks, perhaps Spectre taking out Quantum, but oh well. I recall Burgess had a few good, if out there, ideas.

    Anthony Burgess had imagined a gross Orson Welles in a wheelchair as the villain. That could have worked.
  • Posts: 230
    I think a politician villain could be cool. Leave the specific political positions out of it, but model it on a Trump/Farage style demagogue and have him being secretly connected to Spectre or some other shadowy figures.
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