It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
^ Back to Top
The MI6 Community is unofficial and in no way associated or linked with EON Productions, MGM, Sony Pictures, Activision or Ian Fleming Publications. Any views expressed on this website are of the individual members and do not necessarily reflect those of the Community owners. Any video or images displayed in topics on MI6 Community are embedded by users from third party sites and as such MI6 Community and its owners take no responsibility for this material.
James Bond News • James Bond Articles • James Bond Magazine
Comments
Wasn't Patterson Joseph considered(?) as a possible Doctor at one point?
No idea. I think it would have been an interesting idea and a less controversial one.
https://www.google.com.mm/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KWa9K_rKIZU&ved=2ahUKEwj265HT3vXcAhWKWysKHdAwA9YQt9IBMA56BAgLEEk&usg=AOvVaw1PDcHW9vXRGwiPHtgSy_Jk
People mention Elba can do 'suave'. Okay, where is he a bit like Bond? Any Youtube clips or any particular film where he feels a bit James Bond? I don't think Bastille Day is Elba like Bond. Much of the time his character is in a car, shouting at the American pickpocket. That's not my idea of a Bond screentest kinda performance. Elba seems good enough at action, got no issue with that, but where does he seem less street?
There is perception too. I was reluctant to post the following but here goes... there has been a huge spike in black knife murders in London. The perps are 'street' - they are gang members. When Horowitz said Elba is too street he is saying Elba's acting or vibe is similar to people that fall into gang violence? Street thug mentality. I know that is a harsh thing to say and Elba is a decent guy but there is a reason why some people are anti-black (and certainly anti a black Bond). Not all racism is based on ignorance or blind hatred. Prejudice is not completely irrational.
There has been a shocking rise in black knife crime in London and it's sad to say some people may consider a black Bond as a poster boy for black criminality. I'm sorry to post this but I am being brutally honest. James Bond is not a character where you should be politically correct and curb how you feel. I am being brutally honest why I don't want Elba as James Bond. Elba is too street for Bond - unless he can pull off the perception he is from a middle class white background. If he can do that, fair enough. If black criminals relate to an Elba Bond - "hey he's one of us, a cool bad ass Bond" - then it's the death of the character. Political correctness - be damned. This is Bond we're talking about, the future of the character.
In my own head Bond has always been white so I’d have to make that adjustment to my perception of him.
I guess in this day and age Bond could quite easily be black. Fleming described him as an “anonymous” character in an era when black faces were far less common than they are now. Times have changed, but I still think of Bond as a white Caucasian male and it’s tough to shift that.
This “white Shaft” comparison is also pointless - Shaft was invented during a very specific period of cinema when a group of film-makers were fighting against the white “norm”. You can’t compare the two.
- "If black criminals relate to Elba"
Are you serious?
If we ever needed proof that racist opinions indeed play a part in this...
David Ajala
A Midsummer Night's Dream and Hamlet with the Royal Shakespeare Company
Kidulthood
The Dark Knight
Fast & Furious 6
Starred Up
Sope Dirisu
One Night in Miami as Mohammed Ali
The Huntsman: Winter's War
Sand Castle
Humans
Black Mirror
Paapa Essiedu
Murder on the Orient Express
Sam Mendes's King Lear
Hamlet at RSC
Yahya Abdul-Mateen II
Aquaman
The Get Down
The Greatest Showman
The Handmaid's Tale
Elba is very confident on screen and can be quite charming in a disarming manner. In particular, there are scenes in Prometheus, Molly's Game and Obsessed which come to mind off the top of my head. It's not so much him being in a suit or dinner jacket looking cool, although that sadly seems to be the prerequisite these days. Rather, it's about that nonchalant, masculine and confident vibe he gives off naturally, which is increasingly rare in the movie world.
I'm sorry to read about the increase in 'black' knife murders in England. That's disappointing. However, I don't think it's appropriate to make the connection between that unfortunate statistic and an actor potentially playing a fictional character in a beloved franchise.
After all, Elba isn't a gang member and he's not a knife murderer either. Surely he shouldn't be disqualified on such grounds?
There are other arguments against his casting that perhaps hold water, but I'm afraid I don't agree with this one.
@fanbond123 well, that was racist....
Sorry, mate. but just because you're black doesn't mean that you're killing people in the street. Having a particular complexion doesn't automatically mean you endorse a particular lifestyle.
I'm a 28 year old Indian man living in Britain and often have to deal with negative attitudes like this. Just being brown doesn't mean you fall within a particular archetype. The same goes for any ethnic minority.
I didn't come to the Bond films and enjoy them growing up because I saw him as a bastion of white culture. I came to watch entertaining stories that were fun and escapist. I now come to them as the stories have evolved and Eon are making riskier moves.
Also, just because the media report on street crimes doesn't mean white people aren't involved. Furthermore, white middle class people working in the financial sector are equally culpable for major crimes that aren't reported in the media.
I hate to say it because it'll probably break your heart, but Bond doesn't belong to the far right. Barbara Broccoli is an unabashed liberal and she makes the call. I mean she just employed the ultimate lefty in Danny Boyle.
I am not impressed with any of these candidates based on these photos. They aren't really giving me the Bondian vibe.
After Craig, I really think EON needs to go back to a more traditional looking fellow. Someone who radiates a certain debonair cool and elegance, combined with a lethality.
But James Bond isn't white. He's fictional.
I can't shake the feeling that the best case people are making to cast a black actor as Bond is that some of these actors are "good enough" for Bond. I'm not looking for someone who's "good enough"; I'm looking for someone who fits the part 100 %. Either from a 56 year / 24 film tradition or Fleming's legacy, Bond's skin colour is about as ingrained in the model as his gender, nationality, manners and code number. A black actor could be "good enough" if we're suddenly faced with an upsetting shortage of fitting white actors, but surely such a shortage has not yet befallen us.
Why must this point be made so vehemently? What are we trying to win here? Are people so bored with James Bond that they want a completely new look? Are they trying to spread a message? We keep saying, time and again, that all we really want, ultimately, is a great James Bond film; nothing too out of the ordinary, just a fine James Bond film, picking the best elements of the legacy, squeezing them into a modern framework and juicing them up with a few unique approaches, unique for that film, different for the next. But there's that backbone, that set of core elements that must be there to define a Bond film as such. To some, the gun barrel belongs in that set, which is why some of us had major issues with the gun barrel being displaced in the first few Craig films. To me, specifically, Bond's skin colour is also a part of that set. I guess in the end it all narrows down to how important a "Bondian" element Bond's ethnicity is to you.
When all is said and done, I believe Fleming ultimately qualifies as the final judge. Now, I know that Fleming may not have made a big deal of explicitly stating Bond's skin colour. But then he never had to either. Everyone knows Bond is not a black man in Fleming's books. His more than frequent use of the N-word in several books drives that point home with ease.
I think you answered the question yourself. Because James Bond doesn't exist, he's fictional.
Fleming didn't intend Bond to be Australian. However....
Fleming didn't intend Bond would be a working class Scottish bodybuilder. However...
Fleming didn't intend Bond to be a self-parodying quipster who dressed in clown outfits. However...
Fleming didn't intend Bond to be an Irish immigrant. However...
Fleming didn't intend Bond to be a short blonde and craggy dude. However...
The series has taken numerous liberties with the source material. I really don't think casting an ethnic actor is anymore egregious or offensive than Bond dressing in a gorilla costume or going to space. The whole 'what Fleming intended' argument needs to die. I mean this is the same dude who openly used the N-word and hated minorities and women. Fleming never had any ownership of the intellectual property and therefore his opinion is surplus to requirements. He was paid for his contribution and his opinion on the films is worthless.
Bond is fictional. It's not based on fact. You can do what you want.
There is a perception that some young black men - a proportion - are more inclined to violent knife crime than some young white men. It's not racist to say "some black men in London have no regard for life." If that is a racist comment then I'm racist.
When I see Elba in a Bond context (and see his street type acting in Bastille Day) it reminds me a bit of black, thug type violence. People against a black Bond are really saying
Anthony Horowitz was just telling the truth. Sure, it may be an ugly truth, but it's the truth. If people think I'm racist for calling that out, fair enough. Just being brutally honest and not hiding behind PC fakeness.
https://news.sky.com/story/line-18-gang-warfare-is-killing-londons-young-black-men-11447089
I am sick and tired of violent black street culture, sick of hearing about the endless murders. It's a stain on London and I fear a black James Bond - one that is not sophisticated enough, one that feels a bit from the street or brutish - will pander to the violent black street culture. Horowitz said Adrian Lester would be a better choice as a black Bond. I agree 100 percent.
If EON find a more refined sophisticated black actor, fair enough. Colin Salmon doesn't come over as "street" so EON should look for a black actor like him:
I think the issue is Elba rather than a black Bond. Elba just comes over a bit too rough for the part and that panders to people's dislike of black street culture. As ever, just being brutally honest in my opinion.
And Bond hasn't been presented as an Australian, Irishman, body builder. Or even as a clown or a gorilla in book or film.
What limits would you put on an established fictional character, then? Gender. Sexual orientation. Gambling abilities. Height. Weight. Abilities of sight and hearing.
I had brought up a point a few years back that casting a black actor could result in a watering down of the character on account of such stereotypes. Would EON, assuming they casted a black actor, feel compelled to water down Bond's bad behaviours so as not to pander to stereotypical opinions?
Ironically, with society today as it is, such attributes are more likely to be watered down anyway because they are increasingly seen as unacceptable. People are forcing their societal assumptions and opinions on a fictional character. Projecting. That's not right in my view. Let Bond be Bond.
-- Poor Dalton. Ignored and forgotten, as is often the case, even here.
Whatever the fictional story dictates the fictional characters do. That's the limit.
It's not real life. Why are people so irate about millionaires dressing up and playing make-believe? There are a lot of other things in the world to be mad about, Irdis Elba playing James Bond, is not one of them.
@fanbond123 your attempt to rationalise your opinion is admirable, but it still feels a tad retrospective in its analysis. But considering your point, it seems you're in favour of a black Bond, just not Idris. Which is fine. It's nothing to do with his race, you think he's inappropriate.
@bondjames we all know Dalton was perfect ;)
Seriously? Stupid comment. Fleming wrote Bond as white, snobbish upper-middle class male. Not black, not Asian, not a woman!
Surprising to hear the approach that changes to the character are so wide open. My surprise is in part based on all the strictures and complaints for Bond films as they exist expressed on this forum. At what point would the character no longer be the character at all. It actually can't be open season to potentially change any aspect of a character.
Regarding Idris Elba as Bond, wouldn't that change invite criticism from the folks that railed against white Scarlett Johansen for taking a non-white role? They seemed very serious about that point.
I've said separately, a black Bond flies in the face of the diversity ethos. Meaning it is the opposite of recognizing and celebrating diversity, diminishes both black and white races really.
what is this garbage?
great post. someone left something out about the Welsh/northern English Dalton.
That doesn't make any sense. But carry on.
"Yo! My name is Bond, bitch."